16 bit DOS in vista, change of kyeboard layout and loosing icons

In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit Dos
programs:

- They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
limitation so newer mind)
- Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an .cmd
file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
- But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
(remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout is
still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN US
but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue on
win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!

Any ideas out there !!

Regards Thostrup, denmark

"Thostrup" <> wrote in message
news:0323ED91-9764-4D26-8A00-...
> In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit
> Dos
> programs:
>
> - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
> limitation so newer mind)
> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!


If you cannot get it working, two alternatives to using CMD, are either
installing Win9x/2000/XP on VirtualPC and running it from that, or using
DOSBox.

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/

ss.

"Thostrup" <> wrote in message
news:0323ED91-9764-4D26-8A00-...
> In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit
> Dos
> programs:
>
> - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
> limitation so newer mind)
> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!


Actually, installing the Danish version of MS-DOS on VirtualPC might be the
neatest answer, if you have the disks.

ss.

You could try setting your language settings to be system wide default
rather than merely for your user...

Regional and Language Options -> Administrative -> under Reserved accounts
"Copy to reserved accounts..."



"Thostrup" <> wrote in message
news:0323ED91-9764-4D26-8A00-...
> In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit
> Dos
> programs:
>
> - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
> limitation so newer mind)
> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!
>
> Any ideas out there !!
>
> Regards Thostrup, denmark

Hej Thostrup,

Hvordan har du det? (Undskyld! Jeg kan ikke dansk).

> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.

There was some reason why this happens, but I don't remember exactly what
that reason was. Anyway, it is a known problem for all 16 bit DOS
applications, on all languages and versions of Vista. I think you just need
to put up with it.

> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!


Vista itself has far better multilingual abilities than earlier versions of
Windows. But for compatibility, the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS Machine") in
Vista behaves just like the DOS of old ... in other words, it has poor
multilingual abilities! But, you can configure the NTVDM to run a Danish
codepage just like you did on a "real" MS-DOS PC, back in 1992.

First, test that KB16 runs okay, by entering the command:

C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS

.... to enable a Danish keyboard. KB16 should return to a command prompt,
with no messages (error, or otherwise). The Danish keyboard will remain
active until you close the DOS prompt.

On Windows NT (including 2000, XP and Vista) a DOS application takes its
startup environment from the files C:\Windows\System32\Config.NT and
C:\Windows\System32\Autoexec.NT. So to activate a code page for a DOS app,
add the Danish code page commands to C:\Windows\System32\CONFIG.NT and
C:\Windows\System32\AUTOEXEC.NT, the same as you would to C:\CONFIG.SYS and
C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT on a DOS machine.

In CONFIG.NT add to the end of the file:

COUNTRY=045,850,C:\Windows\System32\COUNTRY.SYS

In AUTOEXEC.NT add to the end of the file:

C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS

Now to test, open a Command Prompt.
Then run the command "command.com". This will start an instance of the
MS-DOS Command processor.
Run the command "edit", to start the DOS editor.
Try typing in a few words in Edit, to see if the new Danish keyboard is in
effect.

If it doesn't work in Edit, then review the above steps carefully.

If it works in Edit, but doesn't work in your old DOS application, then your
app is not taking its code page info from DOS. It may be storing it in a
config file, or the like.

If it works in your application - hey, problem solved!

Hope it helps; let us know how you get on.

Vi ses! :-)

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

G'day Andrew (Sorry, my australian is a bit rusty!)

Thanks very much for your solution. I edited autoexec and config.nt and
everything works like a charm. I simply had forgotten the kb16 option. Had
only tried keyb and found that it wasn't supported. Is keyb.com 32 bit and
kb16.com 16 bit or what?

You have nothing to ad to the icon issue? Maybee a Microsoft bug or what?

To Chen Shen
Tried your proposal; no luck. But thanks anyway!

To Synapse Syndrome
Have plyed around with both DosBox and Virtual PC 2007 - both neat programs,
but to my needs I think it's a bit overkill - thanks anyway!


"Andrew McLaren" wrote:

> Hej Thostrup,
>
> Hvordan har du det? (Undskyld! Jeg kan ikke dansk).
>
> > - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> > an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> > .cmd
> > file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> > you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
>
> There was some reason why this happens, but I don't remember exactly what
> that reason was. Anyway, it is a known problem for all 16 bit DOS
> applications, on all languages and versions of Vista. I think you just need
> to put up with it.
>
> > - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> > (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> > is
> > still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> > US
> > but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> > on
> > win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!
>
>
> Vista itself has far better multilingual abilities than earlier versions of
> Windows. But for compatibility, the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS Machine") in
> Vista behaves just like the DOS of old ... in other words, it has poor
> multilingual abilities! But, you can configure the NTVDM to run a Danish
> codepage just like you did on a "real" MS-DOS PC, back in 1992.
>
> First, test that KB16 runs okay, by entering the command:
>
> C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS
>
> ... to enable a Danish keyboard. KB16 should return to a command prompt,
> with no messages (error, or otherwise). The Danish keyboard will remain
> active until you close the DOS prompt.
>
> On Windows NT (including 2000, XP and Vista) a DOS application takes its
> startup environment from the files C:\Windows\System32\Config.NT and
> C:\Windows\System32\Autoexec.NT. So to activate a code page for a DOS app,
> add the Danish code page commands to C:\Windows\System32\CONFIG.NT and
> C:\Windows\System32\AUTOEXEC.NT, the same as you would to C:\CONFIG.SYS and
> C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT on a DOS machine.
>
> In CONFIG.NT add to the end of the file:
>
> COUNTRY=045,850,C:\Windows\System32\COUNTRY.SYS
>
> In AUTOEXEC.NT add to the end of the file:
>
> C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS
>
> Now to test, open a Command Prompt.
> Then run the command "command.com". This will start an instance of the
> MS-DOS Command processor.
> Run the command "edit", to start the DOS editor.
> Try typing in a few words in Edit, to see if the new Danish keyboard is in
> effect.
>
> If it doesn't work in Edit, then review the above steps carefully.
>
> If it works in Edit, but doesn't work in your old DOS application, then your
> app is not taking its code page info from DOS. It may be storing it in a
> config file, or the like.
>
> If it works in your application - hey, problem solved!
>
> Hope it helps; let us know how you get on.
>
> Vi ses! :-)
>
> --
> Andrew McLaren
> amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au
>
>

> You have nothing to ad to the icon issue? Maybee a Microsoft bug or what?

This problem came up, back during the Vista beta. I thought I still had an
email from the Windows dev guy, but I can't find it now. Anyway as I recall,
it was sort of "by design". It was not a deliberate change, but because of
the way some shell APIs now worked in Vista, it was really difficult to
display the icon resources from 16-bit files. I can't remember the precise
details - sorry. I think it is unlikely Microsoft will ever fix this,
because it's not a functional problem (ie, the icon still *works*, it just
doesn't display the resource); and to fix it would have been a lot of
complicated work for a fairly edge scenario.

But if lots of people complain, I guess they will consider fixing/changing
it!

Cheers,
--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

"Thostrup" wrote:

> In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit Dos
> programs:
>
> - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
> limitation so newer mind)
> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!
>
> Any ideas out there !!
>
> Regards Thostrup, denmark

This was very annoying to me also. I came up with a work-around that when
completed had a beautiful icon and to the user responds exactly the same as
under other versions of windows.

1. Create a new directory for all your missing icon 16 bit files and
populate it. (I called mine "16 bit."
2. Create a new directory for the macros you will write (I call mine
"Macros")
3. Create batch (*.bat) files for all your 16 bit programs. The beauty
here is that all program switches, navagation, directory changes etc. can me
included. Follow this with the "exit" command to return to windows. Save
this file into the Macros directory.
4. Send a shortcut to the desktop of the *.bat file,
5. Add any icon and rename the file as desired.
6. When you access this file from the desktop it behaves exactly as the
program pif under Windows XP.

If you have any questions about any of these steps, please feel free to
contact me at

It is amazing to me that even though we have come a long ways from DOS, we
can use DOS programming to correct a Vista shortcoming.

Maynard Bertolet
"Thostrup" wrote:

> In Vista Business (Danish) I have following problems with some old 16 bit Dos
> programs:
>
> - They can't run in fullscreen mode (but this is a well known Vista
> limitation so newer mind)
> - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an .cmd
> file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
> - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout is
> still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN US
> but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue on
> win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!
>
> Any ideas out there !!
>
> Regards Thostrup, denmark

Hi Andrew,
I'm just experiencing the same problem, but your solution (that seems so
logic) doesn't seem to work. Strange thing is that, if I copy AUTOEXEC.NT and
CONFIG.NT from C:\Windows\System32 to the directory of installation of my
16-bit old DOS program, modify them as you suggested, and specify them as
starting files in the PIF properties, my program works fine as regards
keyboard layout ...

But what starts malfunctioning is DOS2USB tool, that seems no more trapping
LPT1 output generated from my old 16-bit DOS program.
Note that, in the way you suggested, DOS2USB worked fine ...

I'm quite puzzled from this Vista behaviour. Do you have any hints?
Many thanks,
Enrico

"Andrew McLaren" wrote:

> Hej Thostrup,
>
> Hvordan har du det? (Undskyld! Jeg kan ikke dansk).
>
> > - Can't show the correct icon even if you in properties for the exe attach
> > an icon manually. But if you start the exe via an cmd file (creating an
> > .cmd
> > file with the path and exe in and makes a shortcut for the .cmd file) then
> > you can attach an icon and it shows as expected.
>
> There was some reason why this happens, but I don't remember exactly what
> that reason was. Anyway, it is a known problem for all 16 bit DOS
> applications, on all languages and versions of Vista. I think you just need
> to put up with it.
>
> > - But worst: The keyboard layout changes to EN US when the program starts
> > (remember I am on a danish mashine). If I start an cmd prompt the layout
> > is
> > still danish, when I start the program whithin the prompt it changes to EN
> > US
> > but changes back to danish when ending the program. This is not an issue
> > on
> > win xp or win98 - have really played a lot around with it!
>
>
> Vista itself has far better multilingual abilities than earlier versions of
> Windows. But for compatibility, the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS Machine") in
> Vista behaves just like the DOS of old ... in other words, it has poor
> multilingual abilities! But, you can configure the NTVDM to run a Danish
> codepage just like you did on a "real" MS-DOS PC, back in 1992.
>
> First, test that KB16 runs okay, by entering the command:
>
> C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS
>
> ... to enable a Danish keyboard. KB16 should return to a command prompt,
> with no messages (error, or otherwise). The Danish keyboard will remain
> active until you close the DOS prompt.
>
> On Windows NT (including 2000, XP and Vista) a DOS application takes its
> startup environment from the files C:\Windows\System32\Config.NT and
> C:\Windows\System32\Autoexec.NT. So to activate a code page for a DOS app,
> add the Danish code page commands to C:\Windows\System32\CONFIG.NT and
> C:\Windows\System32\AUTOEXEC.NT, the same as you would to C:\CONFIG.SYS and
> C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT on a DOS machine.
>
> In CONFIG.NT add to the end of the file:
>
> COUNTRY=045,850,C:\Windows\System32\COUNTRY.SYS
>
> In AUTOEXEC.NT add to the end of the file:
>
> C:\Windows\System32\KB16 DK,850,C:\Windows\System32\KEYBOARD.SYS
>
> Now to test, open a Command Prompt.
> Then run the command "command.com". This will start an instance of the
> MS-DOS Command processor.
> Run the command "edit", to start the DOS editor.
> Try typing in a few words in Edit, to see if the new Danish keyboard is in
> effect.
>
> If it doesn't work in Edit, then review the above steps carefully.
>
> If it works in Edit, but doesn't work in your old DOS application, then your
> app is not taking its code page info from DOS. It may be storing it in a
> config file, or the like.
>
> If it works in your application - hey, problem solved!
>
> Hope it helps; let us know how you get on.
>
> Vi ses! :-)
>
> --
> Andrew McLaren
> amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au
>
>