16-bit Errors after running Windows Update

Hello all,

We have all our corporate computers set to download critical updates
automatically, but over the last couple of weeks we've started running
into the following error:

Can't run 16-bit Windows Programs -
Insufficient Memory to run this Application. Close one of more Windows
Applications and then try again.

This error comes up and just keeps coming up until the screen and
taskbar are full of these windows. Clicking OK does no good because
they pop-up faster then one can click.

We've isolated the problem down to the Windows updates KB840987 and
KB841533. After uninstalling these two updates problem goes away.

The catcher is, to our knowledge we're not running any 16-bit
applications. Most of our users run Office 2000 or higher, and very
few folks run any applications older then a year or two old. We've
even seen this on some Win 2K Servers which just sit idle acting as
file servers.

Has anyone ran into this? I can only assume it has something to do
with Windows on Windows (WOW) and NTVDM. But the catcher is we're not
running any 16-bit apps...

Has anyone ran into this? We're having to disable automatic updates on
our Windows machines, and with over 600 PC's on our network it's
impossible to manually update all the boxes.

Thanks, and take care,

Ringo

This article may help.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;324767

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

"Ringo Langly" wrote:
| Hello all,
|
| We have all our corporate computers set to download critical updates
| automatically, but over the last couple of weeks we've started running
| into the following error:
|
| Can't run 16-bit Windows Programs -
| Insufficient Memory to run this Application. Close one of more Windows
| Applications and then try again.
|
| This error comes up and just keeps coming up until the screen and
| taskbar are full of these windows. Clicking OK does no good because
| they pop-up faster then one can click.
|
| We've isolated the problem down to the Windows updates KB840987 and
| KB841533. After uninstalling these two updates problem goes away.
|
| The catcher is, to our knowledge we're not running any 16-bit
| applications. Most of our users run Office 2000 or higher, and very
| few folks run any applications older then a year or two old. We've
| even seen this on some Win 2K Servers which just sit idle acting as
| file servers.
|
| Has anyone ran into this? I can only assume it has something to do
| with Windows on Windows (WOW) and NTVDM. But the catcher is we're not
| running any 16-bit apps...
|
| Has anyone ran into this? We're having to disable automatic updates on
| our Windows machines, and with over 600 PC's on our network it's
| impossible to manually update all the boxes.
|
| Thanks, and take care,
|
| Ringo
|

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply -- and I did run across this article during my
research on this issue. I don't however think this addresses our issue
because we're getting this on WIndows 2000 Pro and Server, and this
article is for XP. Also the error message itself is different.

I'm at my wit's end, so I'm trying this next anyway. Have you ran into
the error I reported and used this to fix it? Just curious --

Thanks, and take care,

Ringo

Here's a Windows 2000 version. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305521

--
Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect

"Ringo Langly" wrote:
| Hi Dave,
|
| Thanks for the reply -- and I did run across this article during my
| research on this issue. I don't however think this addresses our issue
| because we're getting this on WIndows 2000 Pro and Server, and this
| article is for XP. Also the error message itself is different.
|
| I'm at my wit's end, so I'm trying this next anyway. Have you ran into
| the error I reported and used this to fix it? Just curious --
|
| Thanks, and take care,
|
| Ringo
|

Dave Patrick wrote:
> Here's a Windows 2000 version. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305521
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
> Microsoft Certified Professional
> Microsoft MVP [Windows]
> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>

Hi Dave,

Once again thanks for your help, but this document is for a different
issue. On our computers getting the error I reported, there's nothing
being launched -- it just seems to come-up randomly. Also the error
messages in KB305521 are different from the one's we're getting. This
doc describes a 16-bit program that's terminate due to missing files --
the one we're getting is due to not enough memory.

There are a good number of similar errors mentioning "Can't start
16-bit application" but the actually error itself is different.

Also just for grins and giggles I did try this -- but didn't work.

Thanks again, and if anyone else knows what's causing this error, I'd
love some feedback. It's a mystery.

Ringo

****There are a good number of similar errors mentioning "Can't start
****16-bit application" but the actually error itself is different.

Yes they could all be different but it all reverts back to the link that
Dave Patrick posted above


*****The catcher is, to our knowledge we're not running any 16-bit
*****applications.

It may not be an Application but a MS-DOS-based or a 16-bit Windows-based
command

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305521

--
Peter

Please reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others.
"Ringo Langly" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
>
> Dave Patrick wrote:
>> Here's a Windows 2000 version. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305521
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
>> Microsoft Certified Professional
>> Microsoft MVP [Windows]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Once again thanks for your help, but this document is for a different
> issue. On our computers getting the error I reported, there's nothing
> being launched -- it just seems to come-up randomly. Also the error
> messages in KB305521 are different from the one's we're getting. This
> doc describes a 16-bit program that's terminate due to missing files --
> the one we're getting is due to not enough memory.
>
> There are a good number of similar errors mentioning "Can't start
> 16-bit application" but the actually error itself is different.
>
> Also just for grins and giggles I did try this -- but didn't work.
>
> Thanks again, and if anyone else knows what's causing this error, I'd
> love some feedback. It's a mystery.
>
> Ringo
>

(posted from windowsupdate on msnews; not USENET
non-msnews cross-post left in case it propagates somehow)

> the catcher is we're not running any 16-bit apps...

Or maybe you're not supposed to be running any? <eg>

Looks like a case of malware to me.
E.g. something has been running surreptitiously,
perhaps inadvertently taking advantage of a security exposure,
some of the exposure is closed by a recent security update
and the unknown program now fails.

Have you tried using some of the popular scanning tools, etc.?

Any clues in the Event log? Perhaps you could implement Security
auditing for 16-bit apps to track this? (Unfortunately I'm not sure
if it is possible and don't know how to do auditing.)

Does it happen after a safe mode boot? If not you could start
drwatson and then try simulating your normal startup. 16-bit
DrWatson.exe needs to run in the WOW region where the errors
occur; it's not like drwtsn32 which gets activated automatically
when there is a program exception.

Hmm... here's another approach
<title>KB196453 - Troubleshooting NTVDM and WOW Startup Errors</title>

and here's another tip about monitoring 16-bit apps (from W2K RK):
Try having Task Manager running and then look at what is under any
ntvdm.exe task.

(MSDN search for
wow* "windows 2000"
)


Good luck

Robert Aldwinckle
---


"Ringo Langly" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Hello all,
>
> We have all our corporate computers set to download critical updates
> automatically, but over the last couple of weeks we've started running
> into the following error:
>
> Can't run 16-bit Windows Programs -
> Insufficient Memory to run this Application. Close one of more Windows
> Applications and then try again.
>
> This error comes up and just keeps coming up until the screen and
> taskbar are full of these windows. Clicking OK does no good because
> they pop-up faster then one can click.
>
> We've isolated the problem down to the Windows updates KB840987 and
> KB841533. After uninstalling these two updates problem goes away.
>
> The catcher is, to our knowledge we're not running any 16-bit
> applications. Most of our users run Office 2000 or higher, and very
> few folks run any applications older then a year or two old. We've
> even seen this on some Win 2K Servers which just sit idle acting as
> file servers.
>
> Has anyone ran into this? I can only assume it has something to do
> with Windows on Windows (WOW) and NTVDM. But the catcher is we're not
> running any 16-bit apps...
>
> Has anyone ran into this? We're having to disable automatic updates on
> our Windows machines, and with over 600 PC's on our network it's
> impossible to manually update all the boxes.
>
> Thanks, and take care,
>
> Ringo
>

Robert Aldwinckle wrote:
> (posted from windowsupdate on msnews; not USENET
> non-msnews cross-post left in case it propagates somehow)
>
> > the catcher is we're not running any 16-bit apps...
>
> Or maybe you're not supposed to be running any? <eg>
>
> Looks like a case of malware to me.
> E.g. something has been running surreptitiously,
> perhaps inadvertently taking advantage of a security exposure,
> some of the exposure is closed by a recent security update
> and the unknown program now fails.
>
> Have you tried using some of the popular scanning tools, etc.?
>
> Any clues in the Event log? Perhaps you could implement Security
> auditing for 16-bit apps to track this? (Unfortunately I'm not sure
> if it is possible and don't know how to do auditing.)
>
> Does it happen after a safe mode boot? If not you could start
> drwatson and then try simulating your normal startup. 16-bit
> DrWatson.exe needs to run in the WOW region where the errors
> occur; it's not like drwtsn32 which gets activated automatically
> when there is a program exception.
>
> Hmm... here's another approach
> <title>KB196453 - Troubleshooting NTVDM and WOW Startup
Errors</title>
>
> and here's another tip about monitoring 16-bit apps (from W2K RK):
> Try having Task Manager running and then look at what is under any
> ntvdm.exe task.
>
> (MSDN search for
> wow* "windows 2000"
> )
>
>
> Good luck
>
> Robert Aldwinckle
> ---
>
Hi Robert,

The program causing all this mess ended up being SMS, or one component
of SMS. After uninstalling SMS on several computers the problem
stopped, and we're uninstalling it corporate wide now.

Looks like Microsoft's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is
doing. And I swear we spend more time fighting issues like then then
we ever spent on viruses.

Crazy... I'd almost rather it have been malware.

Ringo

"Ringo Langly" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com
....
> Hi Robert,
>
> The program causing all this mess ended up being SMS, or one component
> of SMS. After uninstalling SMS on several computers the problem
> stopped, and we're uninstalling it corporate wide now.
>
> Looks like Microsoft's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is
> doing. And I swear we spend more time fighting issues like then then
> we ever spent on viruses.
>
> Crazy... I'd almost rather it have been malware.


Perhaps the SMS itself needed some maintenance? <eg>

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...77f5e1ca58878b

(Google Groups search for
"16-bit" SMS MSFT OR MVP group:microsoft.*
)


Thanks for the feedback.


Robert
---