how to backup users profiles?

2003 domain with more than 10 Vista clients. How can I centralized backup
c:\Users to server? We are using Bacula for client backup, but Bacula's Vista
client doesn't work well for c:\users (other folders are fine).

I can't ask user log off, then backup script doesn't work;
Vista's backup tool can't backup folders;
old NTBACKUP doesn't support volume shadow copy on Vista (alway skip files).

Is there any other ways?

Have you considered RoboCopy?
Robocopy:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/window....mspx?mfr=true

--
Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
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Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
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"shawn" <> wrote in message
news:77BF53CC-7D03-4BA9-B23C-...
> 2003 domain with more than 10 Vista clients. How can I centralized backup
> c:\Users to server? We are using Bacula for client backup, but Bacula's
> Vista
> client doesn't work well for c:\users (other folders are fine).
>
> I can't ask user log off, then backup script doesn't work;
> Vista's backup tool can't backup folders;
> old NTBACKUP doesn't support volume shadow copy on Vista (alway skip
> files).
>
> Is there any other ways?

Yes, but robocopy can't handle opened files, even backup mode, right?

"Mark L. Ferguson" wrote:

> Have you considered RoboCopy?
> Robocopy:
> http://technet2.microsoft.com/window....mspx?mfr=true
>
> --
> Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
> http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...help_en-us.htm
> Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
> Mark L. Ferguson MS-MVP
> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguson
>
> "shawn" <> wrote in message
> news:77BF53CC-7D03-4BA9-B23C-...
> > 2003 domain with more than 10 Vista clients. How can I centralized backup
> > c:\Users to server? We are using Bacula for client backup, but Bacula's
> > Vista
> > client doesn't work well for c:\users (other folders are fine).
> >
> > I can't ask user log off, then backup script doesn't work;
> > Vista's backup tool can't backup folders;
> > old NTBACKUP doesn't support volume shadow copy on Vista (alway skip
> > files).
> >
> > Is there any other ways?
>

shawn wrote:

> 2003 domain with more than 10 Vista clients. How can I centralized backup
> c:\Users to server? We are using Bacula for client backup, but Bacula's
> Vista client doesn't work well for c:\users (other folders are fine).
>
> I can't ask user log off, then backup script doesn't work;
> Vista's backup tool can't backup folders;
> old NTBACKUP doesn't support volume shadow copy on Vista (alway skip
> files).
>
> Is there any other ways?

I'm confused - you have a domain and a central server, what is there to back
up on the workstations? Surely you don't leave data on the workstations?

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Users sometime won't write all data to server, plus working on data may slow.
Since we don't like roaming profile, then Boss likes to backup profiles from
each workstations to server.

"Malke" wrote:

> shawn wrote:
>
> > 2003 domain with more than 10 Vista clients. How can I centralized backup
> > c:\Users to server? We are using Bacula for client backup, but Bacula's
> > Vista client doesn't work well for c:\users (other folders are fine).
> >
> > I can't ask user log off, then backup script doesn't work;
> > Vista's backup tool can't backup folders;
> > old NTBACKUP doesn't support volume shadow copy on Vista (alway skip
> > files).
> >
> > Is there any other ways?
>
> I'm confused - you have a domain and a central server, what is there to back
> up on the workstations? Surely you don't leave data on the workstations?
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP
> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
>
>

Actually we have Bacula - a open source backup solution, to backup all
servers, and workstations. It just works fine for all 2003, linux servers,
and XP, and all Vista's folders, except profile folder. That's way I am
asking how to backup Vista's profile folder, since I even can't find any
valued posts from Google.

"Malke" wrote:

> shawn wrote:
>
> > Users sometime won't write all data to server, plus working on data may
> > slow. Since we don't like roaming profile, then Boss likes to backup
> > profiles from each workstations to server.
>
> If working on the data is slow, you should upgrade the RAM on the server and
> possibly your network infrastructure. Boss should understand that keeping
> data on workstations is inefficient, makes backing up harder and more prone
> to errors and omissions, and increases traffic over the network.
>
> All that said, it's your (or your Boss's) choice. For such a small network,
> I would run Second Copy on the server and have it copy data off the
> workstations to an external hard drive, NAS, or extra internal hard drive
> on the server (least desirable choice).
>
> Depending on the amount of data being backed up, an off-site backup solution
> like Mozy might be even better for you.
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP
> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
>
>

shawn wrote:

> Actually we have Bacula - a open source backup solution, to backup all
> servers, and workstations. It just works fine for all 2003, linux servers,
> and XP, and all Vista's folders, except profile folder. That's way I am
> asking how to backup Vista's profile folder, since I even can't find any
> valued posts from Google.

Second Copy works with Vista. Or is your question that you don't know what
to back up? C:\Users\username\etc.

You have to create matching user accounts/passwords on the server and set up
sharing on the Vista machine, naturally. It sounds more like a permissions
problem.

Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as files
and folders:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727037.aspx

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Bacula use client agent, then no permission isuue. But for Vista's profile,
it is hard to make a live backup, I got similar issue like this:
http://help.lockergnome.com/vista/Ac...opict1391.html
It is about Vista's profile structure, bacula client daemon can't traverse
the whole profile tree.

"Malke" wrote:

> shawn wrote:
>
> > Actually we have Bacula - a open source backup solution, to backup all
> > servers, and workstations. It just works fine for all 2003, linux servers,
> > and XP, and all Vista's folders, except profile folder. That's way I am
> > asking how to backup Vista's profile folder, since I even can't find any
> > valued posts from Google.
>
> Second Copy works with Vista. Or is your question that you don't know what
> to back up? C:\Users\username\etc.
>
> You have to create matching user accounts/passwords on the server and set up
> sharing on the Vista machine, naturally. It sounds more like a permissions
> problem.
>
> Excellent, thorough, yet easy to understand article about File/Printer
> Sharing in Vista. Includes details about sharing printers as well as files
> and folders:
>
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727037.aspx
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP
> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
> FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
>
>

shawn wrote:

> Bacula use client agent, then no permission isuue. But for Vista's
> profile, it is hard to make a live backup, I got similar issue like this:
>
http://help.lockergnome.com/vista/Ac...opict1391.html
> It is about Vista's profile structure, bacula client daemon can't traverse
> the whole profile tree.

Then the issue is with the Bacula software. Contact their tech support or
use a different backup program. As I already said, Second Copy works fine
with Vista, and so does Acronis True Image (you could use their server
version). There are other backup programs which also work with Vista,
although I've only used SC and TI so I can't recommend any one way or
another. Other people may have good suggestions.

This is not a Vista issue; it is a problem with the backup software you are
using.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke;1077798 Wrote:
> shawn wrote:
>
> > Users sometime won't write all data to server, plus working on data
> may
> > slow. Since we don't like roaming profile, then Boss likes to backup
> > profiles from each workstations to server.
>
> If working on the data is slow, you should upgrade the RAM on the
> server and
> possibly your network infrastructure. Boss should understand that
> keeping
> data on workstations is inefficient, makes backing up harder and more
> prone
> to errors and omissions, and increases traffic over the network.


How about vice versa?

Roaming profiles is a feature which is so unusable that its almost "not
working feature".
I don't recommend to use it at all, and thats why their boss skipped it
in the first place and it was right move.

Profiles get bigger and bigger over time and when those are few
gigabytes you dont want users to wait whole day when their computers
load profiles from server.
And in worst case there are several people doing it at the same time.

Of course you COULD restrict profile size with group policies but what
if there is big ego chief customers which are going mad because they
cant do something obvious little things because everything is
restricted? meaning "Domain User" rights with restricted quota and
roaming profile size etc.
There is a risk that company who is offering those IT-services is
kicked out or maybe just _you_.

In my experience, usability comes first and after that security and
else. It's not the best thing concidering the situation where viruses
are spreading vastly and criminals are lurking holes where to get in to
your network.

It's easier and faster to left domain profiles to workstations and take
scheduled full image backups from time to time and differential ones
more often.
There is plenty of 3rd party software that can do it.
Mails are of course stored in mail server and backed up there.

About profile size: i was working in one customer and there was outlook
pst's and ost's in users profiles.. others were over 2Gt. Then there was
manually made back ups from Outlook and old profiles etc. and everything
saved to current profile under my documents etc.
So there was really huge profiles with many GB's per user. Why those
things happen?
Because users does not know if they need something or not and IT-people
are too busy to sort out customers files and if they need that old back
up of another back up of that 7 year old PC profile..

It's because companys try to save with IT costs and change their
service providers too often and they hire too few people to do their
jobs correctly.
Its just impossibile to do everything by the book in some environments
and that is serious security threat.
Like OS patch management. MS recommends that there is test lab for
testing updates and that lab should contain at least one computer of
each type that is in use at network!
Who has that test lab? I have not seen one.
Then admins should read all KB articles about every updates and after
that concider which updates have to be accepted in WSUS (or 3rd party
replacement).
Who has read all those artiles? I tried but gave up because there was
no time.
Then there should be pilot group where those updates are tested in
product network, which contains volunteers and once again containing
every type of computers that there is in use.
Who have done it? I have not seen or heard..

And thats only one example. There is huge amount of best practises that
just take too much time and effort AND increase work load in future,
like recommended security practises.

And roaming profiles are one of those last things to do where ever i
am. It eats too much network bandwidht and takes too much time when it
WORKS. And if there is a problem it is even worse.


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