Broadcast HD channels over cable

as I said, and you REMOVED
"but if you want
to watch HD in HD using cable as opposed to OTA"

OTA being the operative word (over the air)

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:22:02 -0700, Lockwood
<> wrote:

>Barb,
>
>This is absolutely not true. I currently have a linux/myth box with a
>pcHDTV tuner that receives QAM HD just fine. This is possible with a number
>of different tuners under linux and is also possible with an HD Homerun tuner
>in MCE 05.
>
>This applies only to free (i.e. unscrambled) HD channels, which for most of
>us means local broadcast networks. In my area, I can get the 4 major
>networks plus PBS. I have not tried to tune QAM channels with Vista yet, but
>from the discussion here it seems that Vista prevents me using a HD tuner to
>receive free HD programming. Not to start my previous complaint again, but
>this makes even less sense than the cablecard tuners being only available in
>new PC's.
>
>IMHO, these are the types of issues that will prevent mediacenter gaining
>wider acceptance.
>
>"Barb Bowman" wrote:
>
>> I don't know who stated what about HD from Comcast, but if you want
>> to watch HD in HD using cable as opposed to OTA, you need a digital
>> ready pc certified by cable labs and a certified digital cable tuner
>> that takes a cable card. It isn't Microsoft who is enforcing this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:26:01 -0700, xiowan
>> <> wrote:
>>
>> >Hello Barb Bowman:
>> > The cable company and the government aren't requiring a cable card to
>> >enable HD "Broadcast" signals received via cable. According to Comcast the
>> >signals are sent unencrypted and need no cable card, only a HD tuner. It
>> >seems to me the only reason I can't watch HD broadcast tv with Windows is
>> >because Microsoft doesn't want to allow it. The cable card isn't needed or
>> >required by the government either; in fact they want the cable companies to
>> >send the broadcast channels unencrypted so they CAN be watched over cable at
>> >no additional cost, just like "over-the-air". To tell you the truth, it
>> >makes absolutely no sense that Vista Media Center doesn't work for this. It
>> >just discriminates against those who live in areas where over-the-air signals
>> >aren't possible(mountains here) and for those millions of people who live in
>> >apartments(like myself) and can't put up and antenna to get a good signal.
>> > I can understand Microsoft wanting their operating system to protect the
>> >"digital rights" of content providers but this is not the case with
>> >re-broadcast, unencrypted over-the-air HD channels. There isn't a doubt in
>> >my mind or that of most others that Microsoft could and should fix the Media
>> >Center software to enable the reception of these unencrypted signals over
>> >cable. No content protection is needed for content that isn't protected when
>> >broadcast anyway......what's the difference if you get it over the air and
>> >record it for later viewing or get it over cable and do the same? The cable
>> >companies already have protection for the premium channels by encrypting them!
>> > Please feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking and even more to
>> >give an honest answer why Microsoft seems to be ignoring the already existing
>> >protection by encryption of premium content over cable and using "digital
>> >rights" protection as the reason for not allowing us to watch the only "free"
>> >programming that will even be available before long. It amounts to telling
>> >every single owner of Media Center 2005 and Vista that you MUST replace your
>> >expensive PCs because Microsoft says so.......not the laws of our country!
>> >This verges on being a monopolistic tactic used to FORCE the sale of ever
>> >newer O.S. software and pc hardware.
>> > The only way I can accept the incompatibility of Windows with the
>> >MANDATED change to HD content would be for someone to quote the law that says
>> >I shouldn't be able to get "unencrypted re-broadcast HD over-the-air"
>> >channels on my pc. The O.S. software provider shouldn't be the entity that
>> >GOVERNS access to free television programming........that's what we elect
>> >people to Congress for! THIS SITUATION MAKES ME REALLY MAD! I urge you to
>> >make the necessary changes to Vista when you put out "Svc Pack I.
>> >
>> >xiowan.........in tucson
>> >
>> >"Barb Bowman" wrote:
>> >
>> >> to receive HD in HD from cable, you need a pc certified by cable
>> >> labs, a cable card, and an HDCP monitor or TV. These are Digital
>> >> Cable Ready computers.
>> >>
>> >> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/b...CableCARD.aspx
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:44:01 -0700, xiowan
>> >> <> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi All:
>> >> > I currently receive local broadcast HD channels thru a comcast set top
>> >> >box on my tvs.
>> >> > I recently read the following on the comcast site:
>> >> >
>> >> > "If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or
>> >> >special HD set-top box to view HD programming?
>> >> >
>> >> >Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
>> >> >capability so no special set-top box is required to recieve HD signals for
>> >> >broadcast channels.
>> >> > When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital
>> >> >cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime).
>> >> >"
>> >> >
>> >> >If no set top box is needed to receive HD broadcast channels on HD TV's,
>> >> >does that mean I can use the ATI TV Wonder 650 tuner which has both Analog
>> >> >and Digital tuners to receive the same HD broadcast channels on my PC with
>> >> >Vista (or my Media Center 2005 PC)?
>> >> >
>> >> >This is what the ATI 650 tuner description says: " HDTV with No Monthly Fees
>> >> >HDTVEnjoy “free-to-air” HDTV or unencrypted ClearQAM digital cable
>> >> >programming and see your favorite TV shows and sports programs in stunning,
>> >> >true-to-life, high definition. As “free-to-air” HDTV (ATSC in North America)
>> >> >is not burdened by monthly fees, watch with pleasure while avoiding the pain
>> >> >of incurring any charges."
>> >> >
>> >> >If the cable company transmits the HD broadcast channels unencrypted and no
>> >> >set top box is needed, will I be able to receive those channels with Vista
>> >> >Home Premium? If not, why wouldn't Vista permit that function?
>> >> > My Vista pc currently recognizes that I have a wide-screen monitor and the
>> >> >tv window is in widescreen format but I have an analog signal so the picture
>> >> >only fills part of the screen and if I zoom the picture to fill the screen
>> >> >the picture is not very good. It doesn't seem logical that the latest
>> >> >operating system won't allow "free over-the-air content" to be viewed on the
>> >> >pc via an unencrypted cable signal when the government wants it, the cable
>> >> >company doesn't care and the pc owners want and need it to even
>> >> >satisfactorily utilize the tv tuner on a pc once the standard changes to a
>> >> >widescreen format in the not to distant future!
>> >> >
>> >> >xiowan...........in tucson
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Barb Bowman
>> >> MS Windows-MVP
>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
>> >> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
>> >>
>> --
>>
>> Barb Bowman
>> MS Windows-MVP
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
>> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
>>
--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

Barb & All,

The biggest problem in this situation is that the issues involved are hard
to understand.
--
freddy


"Barb Bowman" wrote:

> as I said, and you REMOVED
> "but if you want
> to watch HD in HD using cable as opposed to OTA"
>
> OTA being the operative word (over the air)
>
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:22:02 -0700, Lockwood
> <> wrote:
>
> >Barb,
> >
> >This is absolutely not true. I currently have a linux/myth box with a
> >pcHDTV tuner that receives QAM HD just fine. This is possible with a number
> >of different tuners under linux and is also possible with an HD Homerun tuner
> >in MCE 05.
> >
> >This applies only to free (i.e. unscrambled) HD channels, which for most of
> >us means local broadcast networks. In my area, I can get the 4 major
> >networks plus PBS. I have not tried to tune QAM channels with Vista yet, but
> >from the discussion here it seems that Vista prevents me using a HD tuner to
> >receive free HD programming. Not to start my previous complaint again, but
> >this makes even less sense than the cablecard tuners being only available in
> >new PC's.
> >
> >IMHO, these are the types of issues that will prevent mediacenter gaining
> >wider acceptance.
> >
> >"Barb Bowman" wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know who stated what about HD from Comcast, but if you want
> >> to watch HD in HD using cable as opposed to OTA, you need a digital
> >> ready pc certified by cable labs and a certified digital cable tuner
> >> that takes a cable card. It isn't Microsoft who is enforcing this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:26:01 -0700, xiowan
> >> <> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hello Barb Bowman:
> >> > The cable company and the government aren't requiring a cable card to
> >> >enable HD "Broadcast" signals received via cable. According to Comcast the
> >> >signals are sent unencrypted and need no cable card, only a HD tuner. It
> >> >seems to me the only reason I can't watch HD broadcast tv with Windows is
> >> >because Microsoft doesn't want to allow it. The cable card isn't needed or
> >> >required by the government either; in fact they want the cable companies to
> >> >send the broadcast channels unencrypted so they CAN be watched over cable at
> >> >no additional cost, just like "over-the-air". To tell you the truth, it
> >> >makes absolutely no sense that Vista Media Center doesn't work for this. It
> >> >just discriminates against those who live in areas where over-the-air signals
> >> >aren't possible(mountains here) and for those millions of people who live in
> >> >apartments(like myself) and can't put up and antenna to get a good signal.
> >> > I can understand Microsoft wanting their operating system to protect the
> >> >"digital rights" of content providers but this is not the case with
> >> >re-broadcast, unencrypted over-the-air HD channels. There isn't a doubt in
> >> >my mind or that of most others that Microsoft could and should fix the Media
> >> >Center software to enable the reception of these unencrypted signals over
> >> >cable. No content protection is needed for content that isn't protected when
> >> >broadcast anyway......what's the difference if you get it over the air and
> >> >record it for later viewing or get it over cable and do the same? The cable
> >> >companies already have protection for the premium channels by encrypting them!
> >> > Please feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking and even more to
> >> >give an honest answer why Microsoft seems to be ignoring the already existing
> >> >protection by encryption of premium content over cable and using "digital
> >> >rights" protection as the reason for not allowing us to watch the only "free"
> >> >programming that will even be available before long. It amounts to telling
> >> >every single owner of Media Center 2005 and Vista that you MUST replace your
> >> >expensive PCs because Microsoft says so.......not the laws of our country!
> >> >This verges on being a monopolistic tactic used to FORCE the sale of ever
> >> >newer O.S. software and pc hardware.
> >> > The only way I can accept the incompatibility of Windows with the
> >> >MANDATED change to HD content would be for someone to quote the law that says
> >> >I shouldn't be able to get "unencrypted re-broadcast HD over-the-air"
> >> >channels on my pc. The O.S. software provider shouldn't be the entity that
> >> >GOVERNS access to free television programming........that's what we elect
> >> >people to Congress for! THIS SITUATION MAKES ME REALLY MAD! I urge you to
> >> >make the necessary changes to Vista when you put out "Svc Pack I.
> >> >
> >> >xiowan.........in tucson
> >> >
> >> >"Barb Bowman" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> to receive HD in HD from cable, you need a pc certified by cable
> >> >> labs, a cable card, and an HDCP monitor or TV. These are Digital
> >> >> Cable Ready computers.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/b...CableCARD.aspx
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:44:01 -0700, xiowan
> >> >> <> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Hi All:
> >> >> > I currently receive local broadcast HD channels thru a comcast set top
> >> >> >box on my tvs.
> >> >> > I recently read the following on the comcast site:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or
> >> >> >special HD set-top box to view HD programming?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
> >> >> >capability so no special set-top box is required to recieve HD signals for
> >> >> >broadcast channels.
> >> >> > When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital
> >> >> >cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime).
> >> >> >"
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If no set top box is needed to receive HD broadcast channels on HD TV's,
> >> >> >does that mean I can use the ATI TV Wonder 650 tuner which has both Analog
> >> >> >and Digital tuners to receive the same HD broadcast channels on my PC with
> >> >> >Vista (or my Media Center 2005 PC)?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >This is what the ATI 650 tuner description says: " HDTV with No Monthly Fees
> >> >> >HDTVEnjoy “free-to-air� HDTV or unencrypted ClearQAM digital cable
> >> >> >programming and see your favorite TV shows and sports programs in stunning,
> >> >> >true-to-life, high definition. As “free-to-air� HDTV (ATSC in North America)
> >> >> >is not burdened by monthly fees, watch with pleasure while avoiding the pain
> >> >> >of incurring any charges."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If the cable company transmits the HD broadcast channels unencrypted and no
> >> >> >set top box is needed, will I be able to receive those channels with Vista
> >> >> >Home Premium? If not, why wouldn't Vista permit that function?
> >> >> > My Vista pc currently recognizes that I have a wide-screen monitor and the
> >> >> >tv window is in widescreen format but I have an analog signal so the picture
> >> >> >only fills part of the screen and if I zoom the picture to fill the screen
> >> >> >the picture is not very good. It doesn't seem logical that the latest
> >> >> >operating system won't allow "free over-the-air content" to be viewed on the
> >> >> >pc via an unencrypted cable signal when the government wants it, the cable
> >> >> >company doesn't care and the pc owners want and need it to even
> >> >> >satisfactorily utilize the tv tuner on a pc once the standard changes to a
> >> >> >widescreen format in the not to distant future!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >xiowan...........in tucson
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >> Barb Bowman
> >> >> MS Windows-MVP
> >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
> >> >> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
> >> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Barb Bowman
> >> MS Windows-MVP
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
> >> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
> >>
> --
>
> Barb Bowman
> MS Windows-MVP
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
>

Coax/RF output from STBs is also in analog RF NTSC 480i SD format,
"Cari (MS-MVP)" <> wrote in message
news:...
> IF (and it's a HUGE if) your cable box has an RF OUT socket, you should be
> able to connect that to your HDTV Tuner card on your PC and record the
> Over The Air free tv on a pass thru basis... provided of course Comcast
> does what you say they do.
>
> If your cable box does not, you're out of luck. S-Video is only SD.
> Composite is even lower resolution.
>
> Of course if you have no HDTV Tuner card, you won't be able to record
> anything.
> --
> Cari (MS-MVP)
> Windows Technologies - Printing & Imaging
> http://www.coribright.com/windows
>
> "xiowan" <> wrote in message
> news:63D8B208-49AA-44BA-A303-...
>>
>> Hi again "freddy":
>> I don't know if jumping the gun is the right description
>> lol........maybe "Microsoft is slow on the draw" is more apt! I would
>> have
>> loved to record the British Open next weekend while I'm at work and watch
>> it
>> when I get home at noon in glorious High Definition...........but no, I
>> can't record it because I'm unable to get over the air HD channels on my
>> pc.
>> Darn.
>>
>> xiowan........in tucson
>>
>> "freddy" wrote:
>>
>>> xiowan,
>>>
>>> OK, you want to watch via Comcast cable the same free programming that
>>> is
>>> also broadcast over the air, but you want to see it using Windows Media
>>> Center. You used tooooo many words to say that, and it got lost in all
>>> the
>>> verbiage and rants. So, now you know the answer. You're jumping the
>>> gun.
>>> That capability isn't ready yet. JW clarified what your're talking
>>> about.
>>> Thanks, JW.
>>> --
>>> freddy
>>>
>>>
>>> "xiowan" wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hi again "freddy":
>>> >
>>> > The quote from the comcast website makes two points: 1.
>>> > "Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
>>> > capability so no special set-top box is
>>> > required to recieve HD signals for > broadcast channels.<" 2. "When
>>> > used
>>> > with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital cable
>>> > channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or
>>> > Showtime)."
>>> > Point 2 is talking about premium (not over-the-air channels). What
>>> > this means
>>> > is, you can buy a tv with a built-in HD tuner that you just hook up
>>> > the
>>> > Comcast cable to and can receive the re-broadcast unencrypted
>>> > "over-the-air"
>>> > channels. From what I've read this is what all the major cable
>>> > providers
>>> > offer. What I want is the ability to do the same with my 3 Media
>>> > Center pcs.
>>> > Hook up the cable to the digital tuner and receive the same
>>> > over-the-air
>>> > channels you get free on the tv from Comcast. It's the same function
>>> > you get
>>> > if you buy/rent a Tivo DVR for all the cable channels but would only
>>> > work for
>>> > unencrypted channels (if Vista worked the way it should). I understand
>>> > that
>>> > viewing content directly from the cable input without a set-top box
>>> > would
>>> > mean no features like "On Demand", "Pay-per-view" and the "Interactive
>>> > Guide"
>>> > but don't really want them since I like the Media Center interface
>>> > better
>>> > anyway. I'm sure most people can't live without the premium channels,
>>> > pay-per-view, etc. But I'm not a slave to the tv and only have basic
>>> > cable
>>> > and no desire to spend thousands of dollars a year for tv watching,
>>> > broadband internet and other expensive, time-consuming activities. I
>>> > just
>>> > want to be able to sit in front of my 22" wide-screen LCD monitor and
>>> > watch
>>> > the same over-the-air HD content that comes free if you have an
>>> > antenna. I
>>> > don't see or hear too well anymore and sitting right in front of the
>>> > monitor
>>> > and speakers allows me to continue to enjoy television programs. I
>>> > will
>>> > probably never buy a large HD tv for the living room since I have to
>>> > turn up
>>> > my hearing aids to hear most of program and the sound quality isn't
>>> > too hot.
>>> >
>>> > xiowan.........in tucson
>>> >
>>> > "freddy" wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Xiowan,
>>> > >
>>> > > You ask, did I miss that part of your post that quotes Comcast as
>>> > > saying no
>>> > > one needs a cable card to view their cable content? Here is your
>>> > > quote:
>>> > >
>>> > > "If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or
>>> > > special
>>> > > HD set-top box to view HD programming? Digital-cable-ready HDTV
>>> > > sets that
>>> > > are now available have built-in HD capability so no special set-top
>>> > > box is
>>> > > required to recieve HD signals for
>>> > > broadcast channels. When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will
>>> > > receive
>>> > > any Comcast digital cable channels that you currently subscribe to
>>> > > (e.g.
>>> > > ESPN, HBO, or Showtime)."
>>> > >
>>> > > Where does your quote say you don't need a CableCard? I think you
>>> > > said
>>> > > that, but did Comcast say it?
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > freddy
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > "xiowan" wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Hello "freddy":
>>> > > > Thanks for the info. Did you miss the part of my post that
>>> > > > quotes
>>> > > > Comcast as saying they send the "broadcast HD channels "
>>> > > > unencrypted at no
>>> > > > extra charge for use WITHOUT a cable card or cable box? I would
>>> > > > assume that
>>> > > > if the Operating System properly handled these signals they would
>>> > > > be fine to
>>> > > > use on a pc. I already have some of the best pc equipment
>>> > > > available and it
>>> > > > is perfectly cable of meeting the demands of processing a HD
>>> > > > signal. All it
>>> > > > would take would be for Vista allow their use. For more on this
>>> > > > see my
>>> > > > ranting post in reply to Barb Bowman.
>>> > > > As I understand it, cable card pc tuners will only be available
>>> > > > to those
>>> > > > willing to throw away their present computers(3) and buy one
>>> > > > already set up
>>> > > > to receive the HD signals via cable card. I don't have a vendetta
>>> > > > against
>>> > > > Microsoft, just what I feel is a legitimate complaint and if they
>>> > > > weren't
>>> > > > practically a monopoly, they would probably include a fix for
>>> > > > this in their
>>> > > > first Service Pack for Vista!
>>> > > >
>>> > > > xiowan..........in tucson
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "freddy" wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > xiowan,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Her's a link to an article about a cable card ready PC graphics
>>> > > > > card:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9703152-1.html
>>> > > > > --
>>> > > > > freddy
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > "xiowan" wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Hi All:
>>> > > > > > I currently receive local broadcast HD channels thru a
>>> > > > > > comcast set top
>>> > > > > > box on my tvs.
>>> > > > > > I recently read the following on the comcast site:
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > "If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a
>>> > > > > > CableCARD or
>>> > > > > > special HD set-top box to view HD programming?
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have
>>> > > > > > built-in HD
>>> > > > > > capability so no special set-top box is required to recieve HD
>>> > > > > > signals for
>>> > > > > > broadcast channels.
>>> > > > > > When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any
>>> > > > > > Comcast digital
>>> > > > > > cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN,
>>> > > > > > HBO, or Showtime).
>>> > > > > > "
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > If no set top box is needed to receive HD broadcast channels
>>> > > > > > on HD TV's,
>>> > > > > > does that mean I can use the ATI TV Wonder 650 tuner which has
>>> > > > > > both Analog
>>> > > > > > and Digital tuners to receive the same HD broadcast channels
>>> > > > > > on my PC with
>>> > > > > > Vista (or my Media Center 2005 PC)?
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > This is what the ATI 650 tuner description says: " HDTV with
>>> > > > > > No Monthly Fees
>>> > > > > > HDTVEnjoy “free-to-air� HDTV or unencrypted ClearQAM digital
>>> > > > > > cable
>>> > > > > > programming and see your favorite TV shows and sports programs
>>> > > > > > in stunning,
>>> > > > > > true-to-life, high definition. As “free-to-air� HDTV (ATSC in
>>> > > > > > North America)
>>> > > > > > is not burdened by monthly fees, watch with pleasure while
>>> > > > > > avoiding the pain
>>> > > > > > of incurring any charges."
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > If the cable company transmits the HD broadcast channels
>>> > > > > > unencrypted and no
>>> > > > > > set top box is needed, will I be able to receive those
>>> > > > > > channels with Vista
>>> > > > > > Home Premium? If not, why wouldn't Vista permit that
>>> > > > > > function?
>>> > > > > > My Vista pc currently recognizes that I have a wide-screen
>>> > > > > > monitor and the
>>> > > > > > tv window is in widescreen format but I have an analog signal
>>> > > > > > so the picture
>>> > > > > > only fills part of the screen and if I zoom the picture to
>>> > > > > > fill the screen
>>> > > > > > the picture is not very good. It doesn't seem logical that
>>> > > > > > the latest
>>> > > > > > operating system won't allow "free over-the-air content" to be
>>> > > > > > viewed on the
>>> > > > > > pc via an unencrypted cable signal when the government wants
>>> > > > > > it, the cable
>>> > > > > > company doesn't care and the pc owners want and need it to
>>> > > > > > even
>>> > > > > > satisfactorily utilize the tv tuner on a pc once the standard
>>> > > > > > changes to a
>>> > > > > > widescreen format in the not to distant future!
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > xiowan...........in tucson
>

http://www.opencable.com/specifications/ocur.html documents most of
this. at least it should be obvious as to where the requirements
originate for DRM and certification.

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 04:22:03 -0700, freddy <>
wrote:

>Barb & All,
>
>The biggest problem in this situation is that the issues involved are hard
>to understand.
--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

Hi Barb,

Yup, all the information is available, but a lot of that is imbued with
technical details and jargon to an extent that confuses many consumers. For
example, I've had people tell me that they're viewing their 480i DVD content
in high definition on their PCs. They believe they're doing that because
they're watching it in high resolution on the monitor (like set at 1280 X
1066, or whatever). They think high resolution is high definition. When I
try to explain the difference, they think I don't know what I'm talking
about. Just try explaining that to some people. This stuff in confusing,
and that example is just a small part of it.
--
freddy


"Barb Bowman" wrote:

> http://www.opencable.com/specifications/ocur.html documents most of
> this. at least it should be obvious as to where the requirements
> originate for DRM and certification.
>
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 04:22:03 -0700, freddy <>
> wrote:
>
> >Barb & All,
> >
> >The biggest problem in this situation is that the issues involved are hard
> >to understand.
> --
>
> Barb Bowman
> MS Windows-MVP
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
>

Who would you suggest as the authoritative source to clarify this in
easier to understand lanaguage? It's obvious that this needs to be
authoritative..

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:30:03 -0700, freddy <>
wrote:

>Hi Barb,
>
>Yup, all the information is available, but a lot of that is imbued with
>technical details and jargon to an extent that confuses many consumers. For
>example, I've had people tell me that they're viewing their 480i DVD content
>in high definition on their PCs. They believe they're doing that because
>they're watching it in high resolution on the monitor (like set at 1280 X
>1066, or whatever). They think high resolution is high definition. When I
>try to explain the difference, they think I don't know what I'm talking
>about. Just try explaining that to some people. This stuff in confusing,
>and that example is just a small part of it.
--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

Barb,

Nobody knows the answer to that question. There is no one authoritative
source. It's like that with a lot of other things in the consumer world. A
lot of people stumble bum around and take their lumps. That's the way it is.
Take a look at some of the comments in this thread.
--
freddy


"Barb Bowman" wrote:

> Who would you suggest as the authoritative source to clarify this in
> easier to understand lanaguage? It's obvious that this needs to be
> authoritative..
>
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:30:03 -0700, freddy <>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi Barb,
> >
> >Yup, all the information is available, but a lot of that is imbued with
> >technical details and jargon to an extent that confuses many consumers. For
> >example, I've had people tell me that they're viewing their 480i DVD content
> >in high definition on their PCs. They believe they're doing that because
> >they're watching it in high resolution on the monitor (like set at 1280 X
> >1066, or whatever). They think high resolution is high definition. When I
> >try to explain the difference, they think I don't know what I'm talking
> >about. Just try explaining that to some people. This stuff in confusing,
> >and that example is just a small part of it.
> --
>
> Barb Bowman
> MS Windows-MVP
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
> http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
>

O.K. Someone's confused here, and I'm starting to think it's me, but here
goes anyway...

When I hear "OTA", I actually think over the air, i.e. using an antenna. I
did not believe this was what the whole thread was about. The discussion was
recieving free unscrambled HD through the cable. Unless I misunderstood,
this is what Xiowan's original post concerns. Forget premium channels, just
the unscrambled HD channels currently on cable. Granted, these are generally
the same ones you can recieve OTA, but from my reading of the thread, Xiowan
seemed to be saying that tuning HD cable was not possible under Vista without
a certified PC period (and Barb confirmed). In your response, you were
careful to continue using the OTA label.

So, easy question - Can we tune free unscrambled HD channels THROUGH THE
CABLE under VISTA? If the answer is yes, my apologies, I have misunderstood
Barb's original response. If the answer is no, see previous post....

Chris

"Cari (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> OTA HD capture has been available since XP MCE 2005 and is the same for
> Vista. No one is stopping you getting and recording the FREE UNSCRAMBLED
> OVER THE AIR network stations. What Barb is referring to are the PREMIUM
> channels such as Discovery HD Theater, A&EHD, ESPN(&2)HD, Showtime, HBO etc
> etc etc all of which are scrambled and need either a PC equipped with a
> cable card slot or a receiver box from the cable/satellite company to be
> able to be viewed on either a monitor or a TV. With the receiver box, there
> is no way of getting a component or HDMI signal to the PC to be recorded as
> there is no tuner/capture card on the market.
>
> The ATI HDTV Wonder was the first HD tuner card for OTA and it's been out
> for at least a couple of years (because I have one).... and works just fine.
>
> It's not Microsoft that won't let you record the premium channels in HD,
> it's the providers, so if you want to nag, nag them not us.
> --
> Cari (MS-MVP)
> Windows Technologies - Printing & Imaging
> http://www.coribright.com/windows
>
> "Lockwood" <> wrote in message
> news:85C05D04-5B5C-4DE3-9753-...
> > Barb,
> >
> > This is absolutely not true. I currently have a linux/myth box with a
> > pcHDTV tuner that receives QAM HD just fine. This is possible with a
> > number
> > of different tuners under linux and is also possible with an HD Homerun
> > tuner
> > in MCE 05.
> >
> > This applies only to free (i.e. unscrambled) HD channels, which for most
> > of
> > us means local broadcast networks. In my area, I can get the 4 major
> > networks plus PBS. I have not tried to tune QAM channels with Vista yet,
> > but
> > from the discussion here it seems that Vista prevents me using a HD tuner
> > to
> > receive free HD programming. Not to start my previous complaint again,
> > but
> > this makes even less sense than the cablecard tuners being only available
> > in
> > new PC's.
> >
> > IMHO, these are the types of issues that will prevent mediacenter gaining
> > wider acceptance.
> >
>
>

I just noticed that JW actually already addressed this in an earlier post
that I missed. I guess the answer is no. Hopefully that will change.

"Lockwood" wrote:

> O.K. Someone's confused here, and I'm starting to think it's me, but here
> goes anyway...
>
> When I hear "OTA", I actually think over the air, i.e. using an antenna. I
> did not believe this was what the whole thread was about. The discussion was
> recieving free unscrambled HD through the cable. Unless I misunderstood,
> this is what Xiowan's original post concerns. Forget premium channels, just
> the unscrambled HD channels currently on cable. Granted, these are generally
> the same ones you can recieve OTA, but from my reading of the thread, Xiowan
> seemed to be saying that tuning HD cable was not possible under Vista without
> a certified PC period (and Barb confirmed). In your response, you were
> careful to continue using the OTA label.
>
> So, easy question - Can we tune free unscrambled HD channels THROUGH THE
> CABLE under VISTA? If the answer is yes, my apologies, I have misunderstood
> Barb's original response. If the answer is no, see previous post....
>
> Chris
>
> "Cari (MS-MVP)" wrote:
>
> > OTA HD capture has been available since XP MCE 2005 and is the same for
> > Vista. No one is stopping you getting and recording the FREE UNSCRAMBLED
> > OVER THE AIR network stations. What Barb is referring to are the PREMIUM
> > channels such as Discovery HD Theater, A&EHD, ESPN(&2)HD, Showtime, HBO etc
> > etc etc all of which are scrambled and need either a PC equipped with a
> > cable card slot or a receiver box from the cable/satellite company to be
> > able to be viewed on either a monitor or a TV. With the receiver box, there
> > is no way of getting a component or HDMI signal to the PC to be recorded as
> > there is no tuner/capture card on the market.
> >
> > The ATI HDTV Wonder was the first HD tuner card for OTA and it's been out
> > for at least a couple of years (because I have one).... and works just fine.
> >
> > It's not Microsoft that won't let you record the premium channels in HD,
> > it's the providers, so if you want to nag, nag them not us.
> > --
> > Cari (MS-MVP)
> > Windows Technologies - Printing & Imaging
> > http://www.coribright.com/windows
> >
> > "Lockwood" <> wrote in message
> > news:85C05D04-5B5C-4DE3-9753-...
> > > Barb,
> > >
> > > This is absolutely not true. I currently have a linux/myth box with a
> > > pcHDTV tuner that receives QAM HD just fine. This is possible with a
> > > number
> > > of different tuners under linux and is also possible with an HD Homerun
> > > tuner
> > > in MCE 05.
> > >
> > > This applies only to free (i.e. unscrambled) HD channels, which for most
> > > of
> > > us means local broadcast networks. In my area, I can get the 4 major
> > > networks plus PBS. I have not tried to tune QAM channels with Vista yet,
> > > but
> > > from the discussion here it seems that Vista prevents me using a HD tuner
> > > to
> > > receive free HD programming. Not to start my previous complaint again,
> > > but
> > > this makes even less sense than the cablecard tuners being only available
> > > in
> > > new PC's.
> > >
> > > IMHO, these are the types of issues that will prevent mediacenter gaining
> > > wider acceptance.
> > >
> >
> >