DEAR MR BILL G MICROSOFT CO.

So in their product pipeline must be a Vista ready version of this printer
only in a more expensive form............why else would they want to ****
off their customers in this fashion??
Canon on the other hand has drivers for most of their products that work
with Vista...
peter
"bmoag" <> wrote in message
news:39A6A5B3-71F8-4999-9FA6-...
> The writer's frustration with Vista expresses a common experience. The
> lack
> of peripheral manufacturer's driver support for Vista is less than when
> Win9x
> and XP were released. Examine, for example, the Epson site and you will
> see
> that the Epson only plans support for a very restricted amount of its gear
> and has yet to release drivers for its premier products, like the R1800.
> Epson posts on its site that "Vista does not support" the products for
> which
> Epson actually has no interest in writing drivers. The pervasive lack of
> enthusiasm for Vista by non-Microsoft manufacturers represents a serious
> failure by the Microsoft marketing department and likely a backlash
> against
> previous heavy-handed tactics. It would behoove Microsoft to write the
> drivers that peripheral manufacturers are refusing to do. In fact last
> week I
> had to replace computers but insisted that XP be installed as Vista is
> useless for me and many others at this nearly still-born part of its life
> cycle. This is indeed Microsoft's fault.

I read the forums but I certainly have trouble reading this post.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



"new york" <> wrote in message
news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> install !
> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
> COMPABILITY
> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND
> RE
> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
> ULTIMATE.
> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices

"make VISTA COMPATIBLE with All Hardware"
A nice idea but simply not possible.
Windows XP was not compatible with all older hardware as you suggest.

Some people will need to spend $ if they want Vista, others will not.
But they should research if they really need Vista or any other upgrade
before purchasing.
Contact the manufacturer of the hardware and software to see what they say
about Vista support.
Vista has been around for a few years in one form or another so no hardware
or software manufacturer can claim they were not aware.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"willy" <> wrote in message
news:%...
>
> But Microsoft Should make VISTA COMPATIBLE with All Hardware .(
> Compatibility MODE ) like they did with programs in XP.
>
> I have purchase Every Operating system Microsoft Released Since DOS 3.1
> But Reading about all the Drivers that ARE NOT compatible , And Having to
> Spend an EXTRA $200.00 for NEWER Hardware is Rediculas. I will Wait Till
> Microsoft Quits Supporting Win XP. Which they will probably Do Real Soon,
> So as to Force the sale of Vista.. There are No Big LINES at BEST BUY ,
> Staples, Office Max and others Trying to purchase VISTA..
>
> The Biggest Draw back is There are 4 Different Versions.. and How do I
> know i donnot need the Most Expensive Version UNTIL after I Buy The 2nd
> most expensive Version. and relies It is Not What I NEED .
>
> It's like Going to The NEW car Dealer to Buy A NEW CAR.. And The Dealer
> lets u Look at a picture of A CAR CARRIER bringing in the CARS .. but u
> Are not allowed to Actual See the Car or Test Drive it UNTIL you Give the
> Dealer the Money ( $$$$$$$$$) He wants for the Car . And NO REFUNDS , and
> all u Get is, TAKE off From work and We will fix any Defects or Recalls
> for FREE.. But He Forgets you lost A WHOLE day of Work @ $25.00 an
> hour.. BUT the UPGRADE WAS FREE according to the manufacture and The
> DEALER !
>
>
> Go
>> blame your hardware company, it is not as if Vista was a surprise to the
>> world, they have know it was coming out for a couple years.....and they
>> have had access to it for a long time as well, so stop blaming MS.
>>
>> Why don't you go and learn some English reading, writing, spelling, and
>> typing skills, and learn to discuss matters in a reasonable fashion.
>> Until then you won't find any help on this newsgroup and most likely will
>> get flamed.
>>
>>
>> "new york" <> wrote in message
>> news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
>>> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE
>>> $250
>>> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world
>>> pepole
>>> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
>>> install !
>>> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
>>> COMPABILITY
>>> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
>>> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT
>>> AND RE
>>> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
>>> ULTIMATE.
>>> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE
>>> FOR
>>> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
>>> "I
>>> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
>>> this
>>> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
>>> then
>>> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>>
>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices
>>

People who are now crying about drivers, had ample time to test out their
hardware on the Vista Betas prior to buying the retail version. If you like
diving into brand new OS's at the starting gate, then be prepared to pitch
any legacy crap and invest in Vista compliant iron. No one twisted anybody's
arm to upgrade to Vista, so don't blame MS.

"new york" wrote:

> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> install !
> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W COMPABILITY
> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND RE
> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA ULTIMATE.
> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices

Have you done a Complete PC Backup, if so, were you able to Restore it??

"pete" wrote:

> I happen to be one of those testers.........still running RC2 build 5744 64
> bit Vista Ultimate on an Asrock 939Dual Sata2 Mobo with ULI chipset
> drivers,One Sata HD one Pata HD,one EIDE DVD burner,Nvidea 6900GT Video
> Card,Realtek Sound,ULI and DLink Lan...........nary a problem installing
> from scratch.Everything works ...found all of the drivers on the
> Manufacturers website...after all they made the equip. not MS.so they should
> provide the drivers.
> The list of software I run is too long too list suffice to say it all
> works....but then I am not into kids games whose manufacturer seems to be a
> little behind the times.
> Yes there are some things that might/will not work with Vista at the present
> time....but they will in the next 3 to 6 months as the manufacturers update
> their software/hardware.
> Which is of course the reason you see so many postings here from MS-MVP
> saying run the upgrade advisor before you comit yourself to a purchase....or
> wait a few months till the marketplace catches up to Vista.
> But no you had to rush in like a fool and get the latest and
> greatest....marketing people just love people like you.
> peter
> "new york" <> wrote in message
> news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
> > Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> > RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> > installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> > install !
> > NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
> > COMPABILITY
> > ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> > BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND
> > RE
> > INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
> > ULTIMATE.
> > ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> > YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
> >
> > ----------------
> > This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> > suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> > Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> > this
> > link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> > click "I Agree" in the message pane.
> >
> > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices
>

Bob wrote:
> People who are now crying about drivers, had ample time to test out their
> hardware on the Vista Betas prior to buying the retail version.

That needs to be Refrazed... Beta Tester Had plenty of Time to Tell
Microsoft that VISTA needed leway with Hardware Drivers !

My opinion is That VISTA is going to be almost as popular AS win2000
was. ( It also Had FEW DRIVERS available)

I think BETA testers should Think of The Regular Computer users ,
instead of How CHEAP a piece of software can be made !








If you like
> diving into brand new OS's at the starting gate, then be prepared to pitch
> any legacy crap and invest in Vista compliant iron.


Hopefully your next New Car or Truck Can get NEW Tires that are
Compatible with it. Or maybe it will need A NEW special ENGINE OIL. (
$100.00 A QUART) instead of being able to use the Standard $1.59 a Quart
Brand .


No one twisted anybody's
> arm to upgrade to Vista, so don't blame MS.

Ok If u Say So... Microsoft Twisted WIN Me Users to upgrade , Because
They Eliminated The updates.. and Soon They will do the same thing
With XP .. Which Equals.. TWIST PC users arms to get them to upgrade to
VISTA.
one post said Ms Was going to Support Xp for 7 more years . Lets See,
It Came out in 2000 , So That was 7 years ago and they Are supporting
for 7 more years EQUALS 14 years .
Win me came out in 1999 and all support Was cut off LAST YEAR .. which
is 7 years .. Why did win/me support only last 7 years ? and Xp is
going to be supported 14 YEARS .. Ms is not going to change their Tactics

>
> "new york" wrote:
>
>> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
>> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
>> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
>> install !
>> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W COMPABILITY
>> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
>> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND RE
>> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA ULTIMATE.
>> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
>> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>>
>> ----------------
>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
>> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
>> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
>> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>
>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices

Lets see I can't seem to buy a new computer without Vista. I went to buy a
new one for my son in Grad school and that was what is being pushed. My
Belkin Wireless doesn't work with this "upgrade" nor my Norton Corp.
Antivirus verison 8.0. Now that one caused a BSofD memory error and I had to
reinstall Vista to "fix" that one. All of which worked just fine on my XP
machine. So yes MS does share some of the "blame" as they obviously hold
some kind of threat over the Hardware people to release this before it was
ready.
"Keith Schaefer" wrote:

> Microsoft does not write drivers for other manufacturer's hardware. Go blame
> your hardware company, it is not as if Vista was a surprise to the world,
> they have know it was coming out for a couple years.....and they have had
> access to it for a long time as well, so stop blaming MS.
>
> Why don't you go and learn some English reading, writing, spelling, and
> typing skills, and learn to discuss matters in a reasonable fashion. Until
> then you won't find any help on this newsgroup and most likely will get
> flamed.
>
>
> "new york" <> wrote in message
> news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
> > Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> > RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> > installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> > install !
> > NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
> > COMPABILITY
> > ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> > BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND
> > RE
> > INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
> > ULTIMATE.
> > ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> > YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
> >
> > ----------------
> > This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> > suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> > Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> > this
> > link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> > click "I Agree" in the message pane.
> >
> > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices
>
>

"tim" <> wrote

> Lets see I can't seem to buy a new computer without Vista. I went to buy a
> new one for my son in Grad school and that was what is being pushed. My
> Belkin Wireless doesn't work with this "upgrade" nor my Norton Corp.
> Antivirus verison 8.0. Now that one caused a BSofD memory error and I had
> to
> reinstall Vista to "fix" that one. All of which worked just fine on my XP
> machine. So yes MS does share some of the "blame" as they obviously hold
> some kind of threat over the Hardware people to release this before it was
> ready.

<snip>

You can't expect an AV program written for XP to work on Vista. None of
them do. It should have been uninstalled before doing the upgrade. There
are good Vista compatible AV programs available including the free offerings
from AVG and Avast, and NOD32 which is excellent but costs. There are
others too.

If Belkin Wireless doesn't work go to Belkin for a Vista compatible driver
for it. It is their hardware so it's their responsibility. It wasn't like
it was a shock to them to know that Vista was coming.

You wrote, "...they obviously hold some kind of threat over the Hardware
people to release this before it was ready". What in the world does that
mean? The hardware vendors are responsible for drivers. They had time to
work on getting their drivers out.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

Rock wrote:
> "tim" <> wrote
>
>> Lets see I can't seem to buy a new computer without Vista. I went to
>> buy a
>> new one for my son in Grad school and that was what is being pushed. My
>> Belkin Wireless doesn't work with this "upgrade" nor my Norton Corp.
>> Antivirus verison 8.0. Now that one caused a BSofD memory error and I
>> had to
>> reinstall Vista to "fix" that one. All of which worked just fine on my XP
>> machine. So yes MS does share some of the "blame" as they obviously hold
>> some kind of threat over the Hardware people to release this before it
>> was
>> ready.
>
> <snip>
>
> You can't expect an AV program written for XP to work on Vista. None of
> them do. It should have been uninstalled before doing the upgrade.
> There are good Vista compatible AV programs available including the free
> offerings from AVG and Avast, and NOD32 which is excellent but costs.
> There are others too.
>
> If Belkin Wireless doesn't work go to Belkin for a Vista compatible
> driver for it. It is their hardware so it's their responsibility. It
> wasn't like it was a shock to them to know that Vista was coming.
>
> You wrote, "...they obviously hold some kind of threat over the
> Hardware people to release this before it was ready". What in the world
> does that mean? The hardware vendors are responsible for drivers. They
> had time to work on getting their drivers out.

You need to Backup and Not think like MS is A GOD..

Lets See, There is MS and Vista..

Then there are Thousands of Hardware maunfactures ..

WHO need WHO ?

A manufacture can support any of the other 20 Other operating systems
with Drivers, They Donnot NEED VISTA..

VISTA is no Good if It cannot Support HARDWARES .,,We cannot use VISTA,
without LOW priced Hardware , So this means we have to Search for a
Different Operating system .

We can live without VISTA,, Vista Cannot Gain Sales with out Us Consumers.
And if VISTA only wants to support a FEW Pieces of HARDWARE to Their
liken.. Then This is Close to The JUSTICE department Stepping in again.

VIST NEEDS to support HARDWARE, NOT HARDWARE support VISTA .

And Your WRONG.. MS does WRITES Drivers for Those HARDWARES for a
FEE.. And it is looking to me like MS is Trying to CHARGE WAY too much !




>

"willy" <> wrote

> Rock wrote:
>> "tim" <> wrote
>>
>>> Lets see I can't seem to buy a new computer without Vista. I went to buy
>>> a
>>> new one for my son in Grad school and that was what is being pushed. My
>>> Belkin Wireless doesn't work with this "upgrade" nor my Norton Corp.
>>> Antivirus verison 8.0. Now that one caused a BSofD memory error and I
>>> had to
>>> reinstall Vista to "fix" that one. All of which worked just fine on my
>>> XP
>>> machine. So yes MS does share some of the "blame" as they obviously
>>> hold
>>> some kind of threat over the Hardware people to release this before it
>>> was
>>> ready.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> You can't expect an AV program written for XP to work on Vista. None of
>> them do. It should have been uninstalled before doing the upgrade.
>> There are good Vista compatible AV programs available including the free
>> offerings from AVG and Avast, and NOD32 which is excellent but costs.
>> There are others too.
>>
>> If Belkin Wireless doesn't work go to Belkin for a Vista compatible
>> driver for it. It is their hardware so it's their responsibility. It
>> wasn't like it was a shock to them to know that Vista was coming.
>>
>> You wrote, "...they obviously hold some kind of threat over the Hardware
>> people to release this before it was ready". What in the world does that
>> mean? The hardware vendors are responsible for drivers. They had time
>> to work on getting their drivers out.
>
> You need to Backup and Not think like MS is A GOD..
>
> Lets See, There is MS and Vista..
>
> Then there are Thousands of Hardware maunfactures ..
>
> WHO need WHO ?
>
> A manufacture can support any of the other 20 Other operating systems with
> Drivers, They Donnot NEED VISTA..
>
> VISTA is no Good if It cannot Support HARDWARES .,,We cannot use VISTA,
> without LOW priced Hardware , So this means we have to Search for a
> Different Operating system .
>
> We can live without VISTA,, Vista Cannot Gain Sales with out Us
> Consumers.
> And if VISTA only wants to support a FEW Pieces of HARDWARE to Their
> liken.. Then This is Close to The JUSTICE department Stepping in again.
>
> VIST NEEDS to support HARDWARE, NOT HARDWARE support VISTA .
>
> And Your WRONG.. MS does WRITES Drivers for Those HARDWARES for a FEE..
> And it is looking to me like MS is Trying to CHARGE WAY too much !

In the first place, knock off the all caps. Also you might want to calm
down a bit too, since it seems to be interfering with your ability to
communicate in a clear, coherent fashion.

Secondly I disagree with your analysis. Hardware drivers are the hardware
manufacturers' responsibility. Hardware manufacturers make their money on
hardware they sell. Windows is the leading OS, so they need to support that
OS for their hardware sales. Yes there has to be hardware with the OS for
it to be useful to the consumer, so the OS must also support the hardware,
but improvements in the OS means changes in the hardware and that means
changes in the drivers, which is the responsibility of the device
manufacturer.

If you have a problem with a non MS hardware device not working in Vista,
complain to the manufacturer. Same with the software compatibility. I have
no idea what you're talking about with respect to MS writing drivers for a
fee.

Vista runs fine on this low priced hardware system. It's almost 5 years
old, with no hardware updates. The video card, though 128 MB of RAM, does
not support WDDM so no Aero or glass effects , but in all other respects
Vista runs good on this hardware.

If you want to search for a different OS for your hardware, be my guest.
You have the ability to make your own decisions, don't you?

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]