DEAR MR BILL G MICROSOFT CO.

Willy

Go to your local store and ask for a bag of gorms, as you appear to be
somewhat gormless right about now..

Hardware manufacturers use the introduction of a new OS to force the sale of
new equipment from which MS make NOTHING..


"willy" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Bob wrote:
>> People who are now crying about drivers, had ample time to test out their
>> hardware on the Vista Betas prior to buying the retail version.
>
> That needs to be Refrazed... Beta Tester Had plenty of Time to Tell
> Microsoft that VISTA needed leway with Hardware Drivers !
>
> My opinion is That VISTA is going to be almost as popular AS win2000 was.
> ( It also Had FEW DRIVERS available)
>
> I think BETA testers should Think of The Regular Computer users , instead
> of How CHEAP a piece of software can be made !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you like
>> diving into brand new OS's at the starting gate, then be prepared to
>> pitch any legacy crap and invest in Vista compliant iron.
>
>
> Hopefully your next New Car or Truck Can get NEW Tires that are Compatible
> with it. Or maybe it will need A NEW special ENGINE OIL. ( $100.00 A
> QUART) instead of being able to use the Standard $1.59 a Quart Brand .
>
>
> No one twisted anybody's
>> arm to upgrade to Vista, so don't blame MS.
>
> Ok If u Say So... Microsoft Twisted WIN Me Users to upgrade , Because
> They Eliminated The updates.. and Soon They will do the same thing With
> XP .. Which Equals.. TWIST PC users arms to get them to upgrade to VISTA.
> one post said Ms Was going to Support Xp for 7 more years . Lets See, It
> Came out in 2000 , So That was 7 years ago and they Are supporting for 7
> more years EQUALS 14 years .
> Win me came out in 1999 and all support Was cut off LAST YEAR .. which is
> 7 years .. Why did win/me support only last 7 years ? and Xp is going
> to be supported 14 YEARS .. Ms is not going to change their Tactics
>
>>
>> "new york" wrote:
>>
>>> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE
>>> $250 RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world
>>> pepole installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats
>>> windows install !
>>> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
>>> COMPABILITY ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL,
>>> GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT !
>>> I PULLED VISTA OUT AND RE INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $
>>> 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA ULTIMATE. ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ
>>> THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA
>>> HAS.
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
>>> "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
>>> follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based
>>> Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>>
>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices

"willy" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Bob wrote:
>> People who are now crying about drivers, had ample time to test out their
>> hardware on the Vista Betas prior to buying the retail version.
>
> That needs to be Refrazed... Beta Tester Had plenty of Time to Tell
> Microsoft that VISTA needed leway with Hardware Drivers !
>
> My opinion is That VISTA is going to be almost as popular AS win2000 was.
> ( It also Had FEW DRIVERS available)
>
> I think BETA testers should Think of The Regular Computer users , instead
> of How CHEAP a piece of software can be made !
>
>
Er...

Hardware manufacturers had ample time to work with betas, release
candidates, etc. and the proactive ones did exactly that.
Beta testers don't think about, or influence, "how CHEAP a piece of software
can be made". We just run what is released to us and report bugs we
encounter and/or comment on features.
Some of the betas and RC's were available as public downloads, so users
looking to adopt early had ample opportunity to find out about
hardware/driver issues.

Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
> Willy
>
> Go to your local store and ask for a bag of gorms, as you appear to be
> somewhat gormless right about now..
>
> Hardware manufacturers use the introduction of a new OS to force the
> sale of new equipment from which MS make NOTHING..
>
>
> "willy" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> Bob wrote:
>>> People who are now crying about drivers, had ample time to test out
>>> their hardware on the Vista Betas prior to buying the retail version.
>>
>> That needs to be Refrazed... Beta Tester Had plenty of Time to Tell
>> Microsoft that VISTA needed leway with Hardware Drivers !
>>
>> My opinion is That VISTA is going to be almost as popular AS win2000
>> was. ( It also Had FEW DRIVERS available)
>>
>> I think BETA testers should Think of The Regular Computer users ,
>> instead of How CHEAP a piece of software can be made !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you like
>>> diving into brand new OS's at the starting gate, then be prepared to
>>> pitch any legacy crap and invest in Vista compliant iron.
>>
>>
>> Hopefully your next New Car or Truck Can get NEW Tires that are
>> Compatible with it. Or maybe it will need A NEW special ENGINE OIL. (
>> $100.00 A QUART) instead of being able to use the Standard $1.59 a
>> Quart Brand .
>>
>>
>> No one twisted anybody's
>>> arm to upgrade to Vista, so don't blame MS.
>>
>> Ok If u Say So... Microsoft Twisted WIN Me Users to upgrade ,
>> Because They Eliminated The updates.. and Soon They will do the same
>> thing With XP .. Which Equals.. TWIST PC users arms to get them to
>> upgrade to VISTA.
>> one post said Ms Was going to Support Xp for 7 more years . Lets
>> See, It Came out in 2000 , So That was 7 years ago and they Are
>> supporting for 7 more years EQUALS 14 years .
>> Win me came out in 1999 and all support Was cut off LAST YEAR .. which
>> is 7 years .. Why did win/me support only last 7 years ? and Xp is
>> going to be supported 14 YEARS .. Ms is not going to change their Tactics
>>
>>>
>>> "new york" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN
>>>> THE $250 RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over
>>>> the world pepole installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the
>>>> drivers thats windows install !
>>>> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
>>>> COMPABILITY ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL,
>>>> GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT
>>>> MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND RE INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO ,
>>>> AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA ULTIMATE. ASHAME ON CO. LIKE
>>>> MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW
>>>> MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------
>>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to
>>>> the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,
>>>> click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see
>>>> the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft
>>>> Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>>>
>>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices
>
>
These companies were given ample opportunity to fix THEIR drivers for
Vista. Microsoft will even let them come down as an update. How in the
world is MS going to test their product for every system configuration
out there.... Beta thats how and the companies were told by beta
testers they needed to update drivers, so that is the problem. I
installed mine with no issues. its all the crap people have on their
systems causing the issues..... when the upgrade advisor tells you that
there is a conflict, why upgrade or install, why not resolve the problem
and then upgrade or install.... oh i know why, its because all these 3rd
party companies have not done as suggested they did not update their
products!!!! is that Microsofts fault? I think not!!! Shame on those
other companies for giving you such a headache

I stand by Microsofts products they work as intended, its all the other
junk interferring!!!!!

I guess my question is why every new version of Windows OS fails to be
compatible with software and drivers that worked fine with the recent Windows
OS? Non-Windows users rarely have this issue.

Many hardware manufacturers are currently limiting their Vista support to
their most recent product lines. So, if your hardware is older than a year,
they want you to buy new hardware for Vista support. I don't blame them.

But first a PC must meet some pretty high marks to even run Vista. Then you
may still yet have to replace that hardware to get drivers. Then you will
probably have to throw away software that you just recently purchased, to get
Vista compatible versions. C'Mon. $400 for Vista Ultimate was a stretch on
my wallet. There's no way I'm spending double that just to support Vista.
Not when my XP2 Pro system works flawlessly for $0 additional.

Too bad, too... 'cause I really love the new interface. :-(



"Rock" wrote:

> "willy" <> wrote
>
> > Rock wrote:
> >> "tim" <> wrote
> >>
> >>> Lets see I can't seem to buy a new computer without Vista. I went to buy
> >>> a
> >>> new one for my son in Grad school and that was what is being pushed. My
> >>> Belkin Wireless doesn't work with this "upgrade" nor my Norton Corp.
> >>> Antivirus verison 8.0. Now that one caused a BSofD memory error and I
> >>> had to
> >>> reinstall Vista to "fix" that one. All of which worked just fine on my
> >>> XP
> >>> machine. So yes MS does share some of the "blame" as they obviously
> >>> hold
> >>> some kind of threat over the Hardware people to release this before it
> >>> was
> >>> ready.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> You can't expect an AV program written for XP to work on Vista. None of
> >> them do. It should have been uninstalled before doing the upgrade.
> >> There are good Vista compatible AV programs available including the free
> >> offerings from AVG and Avast, and NOD32 which is excellent but costs.
> >> There are others too.
> >>
> >> If Belkin Wireless doesn't work go to Belkin for a Vista compatible
> >> driver for it. It is their hardware so it's their responsibility. It
> >> wasn't like it was a shock to them to know that Vista was coming.
> >>
> >> You wrote, "...they obviously hold some kind of threat over the Hardware
> >> people to release this before it was ready". What in the world does that
> >> mean? The hardware vendors are responsible for drivers. They had time
> >> to work on getting their drivers out.
> >
> > You need to Backup and Not think like MS is A GOD..
> >
> > Lets See, There is MS and Vista..
> >
> > Then there are Thousands of Hardware maunfactures ..
> >
> > WHO need WHO ?
> >
> > A manufacture can support any of the other 20 Other operating systems with
> > Drivers, They Donnot NEED VISTA..
> >
> > VISTA is no Good if It cannot Support HARDWARES .,,We cannot use VISTA,
> > without LOW priced Hardware , So this means we have to Search for a
> > Different Operating system .
> >
> > We can live without VISTA,, Vista Cannot Gain Sales with out Us
> > Consumers.
> > And if VISTA only wants to support a FEW Pieces of HARDWARE to Their
> > liken.. Then This is Close to The JUSTICE department Stepping in again.
> >
> > VIST NEEDS to support HARDWARE, NOT HARDWARE support VISTA .
> >
> > And Your WRONG.. MS does WRITES Drivers for Those HARDWARES for a FEE..
> > And it is looking to me like MS is Trying to CHARGE WAY too much !
>
> In the first place, knock off the all caps. Also you might want to calm
> down a bit too, since it seems to be interfering with your ability to
> communicate in a clear, coherent fashion.
>
> Secondly I disagree with your analysis. Hardware drivers are the hardware
> manufacturers' responsibility. Hardware manufacturers make their money on
> hardware they sell. Windows is the leading OS, so they need to support that
> OS for their hardware sales. Yes there has to be hardware with the OS for
> it to be useful to the consumer, so the OS must also support the hardware,
> but improvements in the OS means changes in the hardware and that means
> changes in the drivers, which is the responsibility of the device
> manufacturer.
>
> If you have a problem with a non MS hardware device not working in Vista,
> complain to the manufacturer. Same with the software compatibility. I have
> no idea what you're talking about with respect to MS writing drivers for a
> fee.
>
> Vista runs fine on this low priced hardware system. It's almost 5 years
> old, with no hardware updates. The video card, though 128 MB of RAM, does
> not support WDDM so no Aero or glass effects , but in all other respects
> Vista runs good on this hardware.
>
> If you want to search for a different OS for your hardware, be my guest.
> You have the ability to make your own decisions, don't you?
>
> --
> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
>
>

You are right.

And why should auto manufacturers make their new cars compatible with
conventional gasoline? For that matter, why should they all have to run on
the same fuel at all? It's not their responsibility. If you really want to
drive a new car, then contact Shell. They had enough time to alter their
fuel specification for your specific model...

And why should cable broadcasters still have to comply to Standard
Definition?. If you don't have a new HD compatible TV, then you should call
your manufacturer and demand that they make your old TV compatible with HD.
Oh yeah, they'll tell you to buy a new model. Well then, you don't deserve
cable and should go back to an antenna on your roof.


"Dustin Harper" wrote:

> Why should MS support others products (other hardware products)? If it
> doesn't work, blame the manufacturer. With millions of different PC
> configurations, not everyone is going to be fully compatible. For me, and
> most that I know, Vista works great. It's been a pleasure to beta test and
> support. Sure, there are minor problems, but with every other OS I've tested
> (back to Win3), there are some programs that just aren't compatible. You
> can't change an OS without having some incompatibilities.
>
> Windows XP was a nightmare when it was first released. Lots of "Try
> compatibility mode" or "check the manufacturer for drivers". Sound familiar?
>
> --
> Dustin Harper
>
> http://www.vistarip.com
>
> --
> "new york" <> wrote in message
> news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
> > Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> > RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> > installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> > install !
> > NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
> > COMPABILITY
> > ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> > BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND
> > RE
> > INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
> > ULTIMATE.
> > ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> > YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
> >
> > ----------------
> > This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> > suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> > Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> > this
> > link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> > click "I Agree" in the message pane.
> >
> > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices
>

its that balmer geezer thats head of microsoft, not bill gates, lol, almost
spelt him as bill gayes, pmsl

"new york" <> wrote in message
news:36A18B1C-9FBE-409B-B779-...
> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> install !
> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W
> COMPABILITY
> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND
> RE
> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA
> ULTIMATE.
> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices

"NH_custompcdesign" <> wrote in
message news:F481DDD1-BBD5-41D2-A0B7-...
>I guess my question is why every new version of Windows OS fails to be
> compatible with software and drivers that worked fine with the recent
> Windows
> OS? Non-Windows users rarely have this issue.

I have 15 year old Windows software that still ran on Vista. I have friends
with common printer drivers that don't work between point releases of Mac
O/S.

There are trade-offs all over. The same monkeys work for the OEMs as for
Microsoft.

> Not when my XP2 Pro system works flawlessly for $0 additional.

That's a good attitude. An operating system is there to operate your system,
and to provide a platform for some future expansion. When it becomes a
raison d'etre then that's such marketing winning over common sense.

>
> Too bad, too... 'cause I really love the new interface. :-(

There's plenty to hate too. It's a high-maintenance super-model: a lot of
stuff works fine on the catwalk but there's a lot of **** to put up with the
next day.

"NH_custompcdesign" <> wrote in
message news:6D20E4B0-1E99-47DF-8183-...
> You are right.
>
> And why should auto manufacturers make their new cars compatible with
> conventional gasoline? For that matter, why should they all have to run
> on
> the same fuel at all? It's not their responsibility. If you really want
> to
> drive a new car, then contact Shell. They had enough time to alter their
> fuel specification for your specific model...
>
> And why should cable broadcasters still have to comply to Standard
> Definition?. If you don't have a new HD compatible TV, then you should
> call
> your manufacturer and demand that they make your old TV compatible with
> HD.
> Oh yeah, they'll tell you to buy a new model. Well then, you don't
> deserve
> cable and should go back to an antenna on your roof.


Your argument would be better made using electricity in the analogy. Why?
Because gasoline and electricity are analogous to the essential operation of
the machine.

If you want to make an automotive analogy, why not argue that breaks and
paint, or special ground effects from your old car cannot be used on your
new car? That would be more accurate.

- NuTs

New York,

I haven't read the responses to your post and don't care to, however you
should be directing your post to Steve Balmer, who is the CEO of Microsoft,
Bill Gates can read it sure but can't do much as he is heading up his
charitable organization.

"new york" wrote:

> Windows vista is not A $50 OR $100 OR $150 OPERATING SYS , ITS IN THE $250
> RANGE AND U CAN GIVE TECH S TO OEM V OF VISTA ? All over the world pepole
> installing VISTA and it crashing up becouse of the drivers thats windows
> install !
> NO ONE TESTED BEFOR RELESING VISTA OUT ? WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS W COMPABILITY
> ? BUT MICROSOFT PUTS THE BLAME ON INTEL, GIGABYTE,REALTK,SOUND
> BLASTER,DELL,ATI,AND MANY MORE BUT NOT MICROSOFT ! I PULLED VISTA OUT AND RE
> INSTALL WINDOWS XP 2 PRO , AFTER SPENDING $ 350 ON YOUR NEW VISTA ULTIMATE.
> ASHAME ON CO. LIKE MICROSOFT . ( READ THE FORUMS OUT THERE ) ! AND SEE FOR
> YOURSELF HOW MANY PROBLEMS VISTA HAS.
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...rdware_devices