General

This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of software
ever written.

As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2 XDA II),
except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media Player 10.x and
above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering understandable messages I
shall be abandoning the entire charade in favour of BlackBerry (You can get
the music!).

This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered in
years.

Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
devices.

Tim

It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any of
their software before it was released. Why in the world did they screw up
AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!

I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If I'm
having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder how new
users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues not create
them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!



"Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in message
news:...
> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of software
> ever written.
>
> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2 XDA
> II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media Player
> 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering understandable
> messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in favour of BlackBerry
> (You can get the music!).
>
> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered in
> years.
>
> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
> devices.
>
> Tim
>

No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume of
stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of 4.2
worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here are having
problems with the released version, even. The difference is configuration
on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000, wireless networking or wired
with any one of dozens of network helper programs, firewalls from half a
dozen or more vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting programs from dozens of
vendors, VPN clients from half a dozen vendors and in several versions, etc.
The number of combinations that could be found in the real world is
literally astronomical; the size of the AS test team is not.

The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is that you
now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as you do with
desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team (which is very
small). They now have the ability to add features, fix bugs, etc. without
having to fix the same bug in two places. The initial pain was, I'm sure,
an expected problem (although I think the severity of problems caught them a
little off-guard), but the long-term result should be better responsiveness
to problems and better synching, in general.

It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you can
certainly pin that on the change to network communications from just acting
like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that AS over USB was
super-reliable before the change. The change simply seems to have changed
who is running into problems. People who had 3.x working fine and never had
a problem with that now may have hell, while those who were always having
problems getting 3.x to work, if they're still around, may have smooth
sailing with 4.x (as I do).

Paul T.

"Matthew" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any of
> their software before it was released. Why in the world did they screw up
> AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!
>
> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If I'm
> having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder how new
> users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues not create
> them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>
>
>
> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of software
>> ever written.
>>
>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2 XDA
>> II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media Player
>> 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering understandable
>> messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in favour of BlackBerry
>> (You can get the music!).
>>
>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered in
>> years.
>>
>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
>> devices.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>

Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and itunes
over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that didn't have
some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been one to beat up on MS
for sport but lately I've realized that all their releases are no more than
betas.

I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a problem. AS
3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the first version I could
not resolve my problems and I started with the palm-sized pc! If I could go
back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS was kind enough to break it's
ability to sync with the new X51v rom.

I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They don't
offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed up!) or listen
to what non-corporate customers want or need!

If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my problems,
I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me that 4.2 is
better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an exchange server or
the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do this well *first* before
it tries to be something else! Any other rationalization is pointless! If
it can't do it's primary role, who cares about exchange server!

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
com> wrote in message news:%...
> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume of
> stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of 4.2
> worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here are having
> problems with the released version, even. The difference is configuration
> on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000, wireless networking or
> wired with any one of dozens of network helper programs, firewalls from
> half a dozen or more vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting programs from
> dozens of vendors, VPN clients from half a dozen vendors and in several
> versions, etc. The number of combinations that could be found in the real
> world is literally astronomical; the size of the AS test team is not.
>
> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is that
> you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as you do
> with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team (which is
> very small). They now have the ability to add features, fix bugs, etc.
> without having to fix the same bug in two places. The initial pain was,
> I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the severity of problems
> caught them a little off-guard), but the long-term result should be better
> responsiveness to problems and better synching, in general.
>
> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you can
> certainly pin that on the change to network communications from just
> acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that AS over
> USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply seems to have
> changed who is running into problems. People who had 3.x working fine and
> never had a problem with that now may have hell, while those who were
> always having problems getting 3.x to work, if they're still around, may
> have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>
> Paul T.
>
> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any of
>> their software before it was released. Why in the world did they screw
>> up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!
>>
>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If I'm
>> having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder how new
>> users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues not create
>> them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>> software ever written.
>>>
>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2 XDA
>>> II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media Player
>>> 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering understandable
>>> messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in favour of
>>> BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>
>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered in
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
>>> devices.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no more or
less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I had problems,
resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that, for me, that makes
4.2 better.

It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your device
which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS doesn't build those
ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than to specify the minimum
requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or test them. The OEM is
responsible for that. I'm running the latest ROM build for my device, also,
including the push e-mail support, etc., with no problems with AS4.2.

I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it works
internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in going from
4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things associated with fixing
specific incompatibilities found between 4.0 and 4.2beta that caused
connectivity, sync, and other problems for people.

I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this point is
to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the %temp% folder,
along with the ROM version information from the device. Maybe someone will
spot something or someone with the same device will respond...

Paul T.

"Matthew" <> wrote in message
news:%23Bz$...
> Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
> itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that didn't
> have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been one to beat
> up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all their releases are no
> more than betas.
>
> I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a problem. AS
> 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the first version I
> could not resolve my problems and I started with the palm-sized pc! If I
> could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS was kind enough to break
> it's ability to sync with the new X51v rom.
>
> I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They don't
> offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed up!) or
> listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!
>
> If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my problems,
> I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me that 4.2 is
> better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an exchange server
> or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do this well *first*
> before it tries to be something else! Any other rationalization is
> pointless! If it can't do it's primary role, who cares about exchange
> server!
>
> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
> com> wrote in message news:%...
>> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume of
>> stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of 4.2
>> worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here are
>> having problems with the released version, even. The difference is
>> configuration on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000, wireless
>> networking or wired with any one of dozens of network helper programs,
>> firewalls from half a dozen or more vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting
>> programs from dozens of vendors, VPN clients from half a dozen vendors
>> and in several versions, etc. The number of combinations that could be
>> found in the real world is literally astronomical; the size of the AS
>> test team is not.
>>
>> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is that
>> you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as you do
>> with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team (which is
>> very small). They now have the ability to add features, fix bugs, etc.
>> without having to fix the same bug in two places. The initial pain was,
>> I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the severity of problems
>> caught them a little off-guard), but the long-term result should be
>> better responsiveness to problems and better synching, in general.
>>
>> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you can
>> certainly pin that on the change to network communications from just
>> acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that AS over
>> USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply seems to
>> have changed who is running into problems. People who had 3.x working
>> fine and never had a problem with that now may have hell, while those who
>> were always having problems getting 3.x to work, if they're still around,
>> may have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>>
>> Paul T.
>>
>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>> news:%...
>>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any
>>> of their software before it was released. Why in the world did they
>>> screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!
>>>
>>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If I'm
>>> having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder how
>>> new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues not
>>> create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>>> software ever written.
>>>>
>>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2 XDA
>>>> II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media Player
>>>> 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering
>>>> understandable messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in
>>>> favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>>
>>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered
>>>> in years.
>>>>
>>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
>>>> devices.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

My problem is in the thread above. The upgraded device running WM5 works as
does a WM2003 device but a second WM5 device that has not been updated no
long works under AS 4.2! All three worked just fine under 4.0. We can
safely say the ROM upgrade was irrelevant to the problem and AS 4.2 is at
the core of the problem.

I'm glad it works for you but I gain no consolation with this knowledge.

It really doesn't matter how much MS tests their software because in the end
perception is reality in the user's eye and the track record suggest that an
OS held together with patches and an 'improved' sync host that's broken does
tell a story. We can blame interacts all day but in the end the only thing
that changed on my computer was AS. The first goal to improve software
should be to do no harm.

"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
com> wrote in message news:%23iItm$...
> Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no more
> or less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I had
> problems, resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that, for me,
> that makes 4.2 better.
>
> It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your
> device which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS doesn't
> build those ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than to specify
> the minimum requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or test them. The OEM
> is responsible for that. I'm running the latest ROM build for my device,
> also, including the push e-mail support, etc., with no problems with
> AS4.2.
>
> I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it works
> internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in going from
> 4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things associated with fixing
> specific incompatibilities found between 4.0 and 4.2beta that caused
> connectivity, sync, and other problems for people.
>
> I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this point
> is to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the %temp%
> folder, along with the ROM version information from the device. Maybe
> someone will spot something or someone with the same device will
> respond...
>
> Paul T.
>
> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
> news:%23Bz$...
>> Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
>> itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that
>> didn't have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been one
>> to beat up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all their
>> releases are no more than betas.
>>
>> I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a problem.
>> AS 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the first version I
>> could not resolve my problems and I started with the palm-sized pc! If I
>> could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS was kind enough to
>> break it's ability to sync with the new X51v rom.
>>
>> I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They don't
>> offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed up!) or
>> listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!
>>
>> If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my
>> problems, I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me that
>> 4.2 is better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an exchange
>> server or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do this well
>> *first* before it tries to be something else! Any other rationalization
>> is pointless! If it can't do it's primary role, who cares about exchange
>> server!
>>
>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>> DOT com> wrote in message news:%...
>>> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume of
>>> stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of 4.2
>>> worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here are
>>> having problems with the released version, even. The difference is
>>> configuration on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000, wireless
>>> networking or wired with any one of dozens of network helper programs,
>>> firewalls from half a dozen or more vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting
>>> programs from dozens of vendors, VPN clients from half a dozen vendors
>>> and in several versions, etc. The number of combinations that could be
>>> found in the real world is literally astronomical; the size of the AS
>>> test team is not.
>>>
>>> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is that
>>> you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as you do
>>> with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team (which is
>>> very small). They now have the ability to add features, fix bugs, etc.
>>> without having to fix the same bug in two places. The initial pain was,
>>> I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the severity of problems
>>> caught them a little off-guard), but the long-term result should be
>>> better responsiveness to problems and better synching, in general.
>>>
>>> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you can
>>> certainly pin that on the change to network communications from just
>>> acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that AS over
>>> USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply seems to
>>> have changed who is running into problems. People who had 3.x working
>>> fine and never had a problem with that now may have hell, while those
>>> who were always having problems getting 3.x to work, if they're still
>>> around, may have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>>>
>>> Paul T.
>>>
>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>> news:%...
>>>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any
>>>> of their software before it was released. Why in the world did they
>>>> screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!
>>>>
>>>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If
>>>> I'm having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder
>>>> how new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues
>>>> not create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in
>>>> message news:...
>>>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>>>> software ever written.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2
>>>>> XDA II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media
>>>>> Player 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering
>>>>> understandable messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in
>>>>> favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered
>>>>> in years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
>>>>> devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Their goal is going to be to sell as much hardware as possible, as their
only source of revenue in the mobile space is licensing of the software.
They call this a 'shared success' model, as they don't make money (or at
least not much; tools only, not enough to be worth anything), unless the
hardware vendors sell hardware. Obviously, they don't make *anything* from
sales of ActiveSync, so they aren't super-well funded and it's not a big
group. Everyone in the MVP group picks on them, too, so there's zero chance
that they aren't hearing that they need to do better.

I won't argue about what the first goals of software improvement should be,
but back to the topic of actually *fixing* your problem, as opposed to
simply complaining about it, do you want to post those log files or what?
How about the specific information on the Pocket PC hardware? So far, all
you've given us is "It's an X51v, and I'm ****ed". If you just want to be
****ed, then I'll go on to more fruitful work. I don't get paid for this,
you know.

Paul T.

"Matthew" <> wrote in message
news:...
> My problem is in the thread above. The upgraded device running WM5 works
> as does a WM2003 device but a second WM5 device that has not been updated
> no long works under AS 4.2! All three worked just fine under 4.0. We can
> safely say the ROM upgrade was irrelevant to the problem and AS 4.2 is at
> the core of the problem.
>
> I'm glad it works for you but I gain no consolation with this knowledge.
>
> It really doesn't matter how much MS tests their software because in the
> end perception is reality in the user's eye and the track record suggest
> that an OS held together with patches and an 'improved' sync host that's
> broken does tell a story. We can blame interacts all day but in the end
> the only thing that changed on my computer was AS. The first goal to
> improve software should be to do no harm.
>
> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
> com> wrote in message news:%23iItm$...
>> Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no more
>> or less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I had
>> problems, resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that, for me,
>> that makes 4.2 better.
>>
>> It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your
>> device which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS doesn't
>> build those ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than to specify
>> the minimum requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or test them. The
>> OEM is responsible for that. I'm running the latest ROM build for my
>> device, also, including the push e-mail support, etc., with no problems
>> with AS4.2.
>>
>> I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it
>> works internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in
>> going from 4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things associated
>> with fixing specific incompatibilities found between 4.0 and 4.2beta that
>> caused connectivity, sync, and other problems for people.
>>
>> I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this point
>> is to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the %temp%
>> folder, along with the ROM version information from the device. Maybe
>> someone will spot something or someone with the same device will
>> respond...
>>
>> Paul T.
>>
>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>> news:%23Bz$...
>>> Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
>>> itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that
>>> didn't have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been one
>>> to beat up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all their
>>> releases are no more than betas.
>>>
>>> I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a problem.
>>> AS 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the first version
>>> I could not resolve my problems and I started with the palm-sized pc!
>>> If I could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS was kind enough
>>> to break it's ability to sync with the new X51v rom.
>>>
>>> I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They don't
>>> offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed up!) or
>>> listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!
>>>
>>> If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my
>>> problems, I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me
>>> that 4.2 is better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an
>>> exchange server or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do
>>> this well *first* before it tries to be something else! Any other
>>> rationalization is pointless! If it can't do it's primary role, who
>>> cares about exchange server!
>>>
>>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>>> DOT com> wrote in message
>>> news:%...
>>>> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume of
>>>> stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of 4.2
>>>> worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here are
>>>> having problems with the released version, even. The difference is
>>>> configuration on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000, wireless
>>>> networking or wired with any one of dozens of network helper programs,
>>>> firewalls from half a dozen or more vendors, anti-virus/anti-scripting
>>>> programs from dozens of vendors, VPN clients from half a dozen vendors
>>>> and in several versions, etc. The number of combinations that could be
>>>> found in the real world is literally astronomical; the size of the AS
>>>> test team is not.
>>>>
>>>> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is that
>>>> you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as you do
>>>> with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team (which is
>>>> very small). They now have the ability to add features, fix bugs, etc.
>>>> without having to fix the same bug in two places. The initial pain
>>>> was, I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the severity of
>>>> problems caught them a little off-guard), but the long-term result
>>>> should be better responsiveness to problems and better synching, in
>>>> general.
>>>>
>>>> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you
>>>> can certainly pin that on the change to network communications from
>>>> just acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that
>>>> AS over USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply
>>>> seems to have changed who is running into problems. People who had 3.x
>>>> working fine and never had a problem with that now may have hell, while
>>>> those who were always having problems getting 3.x to work, if they're
>>>> still around, may have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>>>>
>>>> Paul T.
>>>>
>>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:%...
>>>>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested any
>>>>> of their software before it was released. Why in the world did they
>>>>> screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes me!
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If
>>>>> I'm having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder
>>>>> how new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues
>>>>> not create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in
>>>>> message news:...
>>>>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>>>>> software ever written.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2
>>>>>> XDA II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media
>>>>>> Player 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering
>>>>>> understandable messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in
>>>>>> favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have encountered
>>>>>> in years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC like
>>>>>> devices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Well Paul, I you obvious didn't read my posts referirng to my problems and
where my original post stating my problem. To you I offer the somewhat
abrasive position you've took with me. If you read my posts instead of
offering MS defenses......

I already stated what my problem was more that once and where information
with more about my problem is located. If you wanted to help, you could've
chimed in any time you wanted so please don't accuse me of complaining with
out stating my case!
"Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
com> wrote in message news:...
> Their goal is going to be to sell as much hardware as possible, as their
> only source of revenue in the mobile space is licensing of the software.
> They call this a 'shared success' model, as they don't make money (or at
> least not much; tools only, not enough to be worth anything), unless the
> hardware vendors sell hardware. Obviously, they don't make *anything*
> from sales of ActiveSync, so they aren't super-well funded and it's not a
> big group. Everyone in the MVP group picks on them, too, so there's zero
> chance that they aren't hearing that they need to do better.
>
> I won't argue about what the first goals of software improvement should
> be, but back to the topic of actually *fixing* your problem, as opposed to
> simply complaining about it, do you want to post those log files or what?
> How about the specific information on the Pocket PC hardware? So far, all
> you've given us is "It's an X51v, and I'm ****ed". If you just want to be
> ****ed, then I'll go on to more fruitful work. I don't get paid for this,
> you know.
>
> Paul T.
>
> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> My problem is in the thread above. The upgraded device running WM5 works
>> as does a WM2003 device but a second WM5 device that has not been updated
>> no long works under AS 4.2! All three worked just fine under 4.0. We
>> can safely say the ROM upgrade was irrelevant to the problem and AS 4.2
>> is at the core of the problem.
>>
>> I'm glad it works for you but I gain no consolation with this knowledge.
>>
>> It really doesn't matter how much MS tests their software because in the
>> end perception is reality in the user's eye and the track record suggest
>> that an OS held together with patches and an 'improved' sync host that's
>> broken does tell a story. We can blame interacts all day but in the end
>> the only thing that changed on my computer was AS. The first goal to
>> improve software should be to do no harm.
>>
>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>> DOT com> wrote in message news:%23iItm$...
>>> Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no
>>> more or less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I had
>>> problems, resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that, for
>>> me, that makes 4.2 better.
>>>
>>> It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your
>>> device which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS doesn't
>>> build those ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than to specify
>>> the minimum requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or test them. The
>>> OEM is responsible for that. I'm running the latest ROM build for my
>>> device, also, including the push e-mail support, etc., with no problems
>>> with AS4.2.
>>>
>>> I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it
>>> works internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in
>>> going from 4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things
>>> associated with fixing specific incompatibilities found between 4.0 and
>>> 4.2beta that caused connectivity, sync, and other problems for people.
>>>
>>> I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this point
>>> is to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the %temp%
>>> folder, along with the ROM version information from the device. Maybe
>>> someone will spot something or someone with the same device will
>>> respond...
>>>
>>> Paul T.
>>>
>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>> news:%23Bz$...
>>>> Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
>>>> itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that
>>>> didn't have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been one
>>>> to beat up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all their
>>>> releases are no more than betas.
>>>>
>>>> I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a problem.
>>>> AS 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the first version
>>>> I could not resolve my problems and I started with the palm-sized pc!
>>>> If I could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS was kind enough
>>>> to break it's ability to sync with the new X51v rom.
>>>>
>>>> I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They
>>>> don't offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed up!)
>>>> or listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!
>>>>
>>>> If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my
>>>> problems, I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me
>>>> that 4.2 is better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an
>>>> exchange server or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do
>>>> this well *first* before it tries to be something else! Any other
>>>> rationalization is pointless! If it can't do it's primary role, who
>>>> cares about exchange server!
>>>>
>>>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>>>> DOT com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%...
>>>>> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume
>>>>> of stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta of
>>>>> 4.2 worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people here
>>>>> are having problems with the released version, even. The difference
>>>>> is configuration on their PC, which might be running XP or 2000,
>>>>> wireless networking or wired with any one of dozens of network helper
>>>>> programs, firewalls from half a dozen or more vendors,
>>>>> anti-virus/anti-scripting programs from dozens of vendors, VPN clients
>>>>> from half a dozen vendors and in several versions, etc. The number of
>>>>> combinations that could be found in the real world is literally
>>>>> astronomical; the size of the AS test team is not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is
>>>>> that you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as
>>>>> you do with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team
>>>>> (which is very small). They now have the ability to add features, fix
>>>>> bugs, etc. without having to fix the same bug in two places. The
>>>>> initial pain was, I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the
>>>>> severity of problems caught them a little off-guard), but the
>>>>> long-term result should be better responsiveness to problems and
>>>>> better synching, in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you
>>>>> can certainly pin that on the change to network communications from
>>>>> just acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that
>>>>> AS over USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply
>>>>> seems to have changed who is running into problems. People who had
>>>>> 3.x working fine and never had a problem with that now may have hell,
>>>>> while those who were always having problems getting 3.x to work, if
>>>>> they're still around, may have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul T.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%...
>>>>>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested
>>>>>> any of their software before it was released. Why in the world did
>>>>>> they screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work escapes
>>>>>> me!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If
>>>>>> I'm having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder
>>>>>> how new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues
>>>>>> not create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:...
>>>>>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>>>>>> software ever written.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2
>>>>>>> XDA II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows Media
>>>>>>> Player 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in delivering
>>>>>>> understandable messages I shall be abandoning the entire charade in
>>>>>>> favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have
>>>>>>> encountered in years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC
>>>>>>> like devices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft's implementation, but it may be useful to
understand the why of the ActiveSync quality issues. Sorry for wasting your
time.

Paul T.

"Matthew" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Well Paul, I you obvious didn't read my posts referirng to my problems and
> where my original post stating my problem. To you I offer the somewhat
> abrasive position you've took with me. If you read my posts instead of
> offering MS defenses......
>
> I already stated what my problem was more that once and where information
> with more about my problem is located. If you wanted to help, you
> could've chimed in any time you wanted so please don't accuse me of
> complaining with out stating my case!
> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam DOT
> com> wrote in message news:...
>> Their goal is going to be to sell as much hardware as possible, as their
>> only source of revenue in the mobile space is licensing of the software.
>> They call this a 'shared success' model, as they don't make money (or at
>> least not much; tools only, not enough to be worth anything), unless the
>> hardware vendors sell hardware. Obviously, they don't make *anything*
>> from sales of ActiveSync, so they aren't super-well funded and it's not a
>> big group. Everyone in the MVP group picks on them, too, so there's zero
>> chance that they aren't hearing that they need to do better.
>>
>> I won't argue about what the first goals of software improvement should
>> be, but back to the topic of actually *fixing* your problem, as opposed
>> to simply complaining about it, do you want to post those log files or
>> what? How about the specific information on the Pocket PC hardware? So
>> far, all you've given us is "It's an X51v, and I'm ****ed". If you just
>> want to be ****ed, then I'll go on to more fruitful work. I don't get
>> paid for this, you know.
>>
>> Paul T.
>>
>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> My problem is in the thread above. The upgraded device running WM5
>>> works as does a WM2003 device but a second WM5 device that has not been
>>> updated no long works under AS 4.2! All three worked just fine under
>>> 4.0. We can safely say the ROM upgrade was irrelevant to the problem
>>> and AS 4.2 is at the core of the problem.
>>>
>>> I'm glad it works for you but I gain no consolation with this knowledge.
>>>
>>> It really doesn't matter how much MS tests their software because in the
>>> end perception is reality in the user's eye and the track record suggest
>>> that an OS held together with patches and an 'improved' sync host that's
>>> broken does tell a story. We can blame interacts all day but in the end
>>> the only thing that changed on my computer was AS. The first goal to
>>> improve software should be to do no harm.
>>>
>>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>>> DOT com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23iItm$...
>>>> Again, just like you, I'm going from one point of view. Yours is no
>>>> more or less valid than mine. AS 4.2 worked perfectly for me and I had
>>>> problems, resolvable, but still problems with 4.0. I'd say that, for
>>>> me, that makes 4.2 better.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds to me like there is a problem with the ROM update for your
>>>> device which may be responsible for the problem. Note that MS doesn't
>>>> build those ROM updates, decide what goes in them (other than to
>>>> specify the minimum requirements to be a Pocket PC device), or test
>>>> them. The OEM is responsible for that. I'm running the latest ROM
>>>> build for my device, also, including the push e-mail support, etc.,
>>>> with no problems with AS4.2.
>>>>
>>>> I simply was trying to explain why 4.x is not 3.x in terms of how it
>>>> works internally (the 'why' of the change). None of that changed in
>>>> going from 4.0 to 4.2, however. The changes there were things
>>>> associated with fixing specific incompatibilities found between 4.0 and
>>>> 4.2beta that caused connectivity, sync, and other problems for people.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to help you get it fixed, but all I can recommend at this
>>>> point is to post the contents of the WCE*.* log files for AS from the
>>>> %temp% folder, along with the ROM version information from the device.
>>>> Maybe someone will spot something or someone with the same device will
>>>> respond...
>>>>
>>>> Paul T.
>>>>
>>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23Bz$...
>>>>> Well, I wonder how Apple seems to do a better job with their OS and
>>>>> itunes over windows and media player. I have yet to own a dap that
>>>>> didn't have some form of syncing problem with wmp. I've never been
>>>>> one to beat up on MS for sport but lately I've realized that all their
>>>>> releases are no more than betas.
>>>>>
>>>>> I surely wish they would stop offering solutions looking for a
>>>>> problem. AS 3.8 worked well. AS 4.0 at least worked. AS 4.2 is the
>>>>> first version I could not resolve my problems and I started with the
>>>>> palm-sized pc! If I could go back to 4.0 I would but I can't since MS
>>>>> was kind enough to break it's ability to sync with the new X51v rom.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like Bill Gates but I sometimes hate the seed he has spawn. They
>>>>> don't offer accessible support ($25.00 to discuss how they screwed
>>>>> up!) or listen to what non-corporate customers want or need!
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have solutions to my problems which get to the root of my
>>>>> problems, I'd be more than willing to listen. Trying to convince me
>>>>> that 4.2 is better is a hard sell. I don't care if it connects to an
>>>>> exchange server or the moon if can't connect to my ppc! It should do
>>>>> this well *first* before it tries to be something else! Any other
>>>>> rationalization is pointless! If it can't do it's primary role, who
>>>>> cares about exchange server!
>>>>>
>>>>> "Paul G. Tobey [eMVP]" <p space tobey no spam AT no instrument no spam
>>>>> DOT com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%...
>>>>>> No, it's been tested and beta-ed, etc. You don't realize the volume
>>>>>> of stuff that interacts with network adapters on your PC. The beta
>>>>>> of 4.2 worked fine for me, but yet a significant number of people
>>>>>> here are having problems with the released version, even. The
>>>>>> difference is configuration on their PC, which might be running XP or
>>>>>> 2000, wireless networking or wired with any one of dozens of network
>>>>>> helper programs, firewalls from half a dozen or more vendors,
>>>>>> anti-virus/anti-scripting programs from dozens of vendors, VPN
>>>>>> clients from half a dozen vendors and in several versions, etc. The
>>>>>> number of combinations that could be found in the real world is
>>>>>> literally astronomical; the size of the AS test team is not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The basic reason for changing to a network communication scheme is
>>>>>> that you now communicate exactly the same way with Exchange Server as
>>>>>> you do with desktop AS. This is a huge improvement for the AS team
>>>>>> (which is very small). They now have the ability to add features,
>>>>>> fix bugs, etc. without having to fix the same bug in two places. The
>>>>>> initial pain was, I'm sure, an expected problem (although I think the
>>>>>> severity of problems caught them a little off-guard), but the
>>>>>> long-term result should be better responsiveness to problems and
>>>>>> better synching, in general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's extremely painful for people who *are* having problems, and you
>>>>>> can certainly pin that on the change to network communications from
>>>>>> just acting like a regular USB device, but, frankly, I don't see that
>>>>>> AS over USB was super-reliable before the change. The change simply
>>>>>> seems to have changed who is running into problems. People who had
>>>>>> 3.x working fine and never had a problem with that now may have hell,
>>>>>> while those who were always having problems getting 3.x to work, if
>>>>>> they're still around, may have smooth sailing with 4.x (as I do).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul T.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Matthew" <> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%...
>>>>>>> It's hard to that believe that anyone at Microsoft actually tested
>>>>>>> any of their software before it was released. Why in the world did
>>>>>>> they screw up AS with all this network crap that doesn't work
>>>>>>> escapes me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been using PPCs since the begining and this is a real mess! If
>>>>>>> I'm having problems with the 'new and improved' activesync, I wonder
>>>>>>> how new users are doing! I thought 4.2 was to fix connection issues
>>>>>>> not create them! AS 4.2 is the absolute worst version ever!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Tim Maher-De Troyer" <> wrote in
>>>>>>> message news:...
>>>>>>>> This is, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst pieces of
>>>>>>>> software ever written.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a result of it's complete inability to recognise USB devices (O2
>>>>>>>> XDA II), except intermittently, no proper interface to Windows
>>>>>>>> Media Player 10.x and above and it's thorough incapacity in
>>>>>>>> delivering understandable messages I shall be abandoning the entire
>>>>>>>> charade in favour of BlackBerry (You can get the music!).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the biggest load of unusable software that I have
>>>>>>>> encountered in years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dump it and get something written that can connect peripheral PC
>>>>>>>> like devices.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

>> Sorry for wasting your time. <<

The mobile mvp's mantra... "No good deed goes unpunished." ;-/

Posted with the goal of humor,
Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]