HTTP 400 in Vista x64 only

I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular Sony CCTV
camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do not get
this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other machine.

If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option advanced, I
notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a page
refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I have
checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are the same.
I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability issues with
some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also running
the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Ian

Hi Ian,

Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE has
compatibility problems with some plug-ins.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
>I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular Sony
>CCTV
> camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do not
> get
> this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other machine.
>
> If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option advanced, I
> notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a page
> refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I have
> checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are the
> same.
> I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability issues
> with
> some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also
> running
> the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ian

Thanks Rick,

You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java and is
it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit and see
what happens. I'll post any results I have.

Ian

"Rick Rogers" wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE has
> compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
> >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular Sony
> >CCTV
> > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do not
> > get
> > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other machine.
> >
> > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option advanced, I
> > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a page
> > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I have
> > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are the
> > same.
> > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability issues
> > with
> > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also
> > running
> > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ian
>
>

Rick it looks like you are on the right track...but ...

An Update:

IE 64 bit does not get any HTTP 400 errors with the webpage and behaves
fine, however, the camera needs Java RTE and there does not seem to be a
version available for IE7 64bit...so cant operate the camera that way.

IE 32 bit on Vista x64, a different issue here, Java RTE does not even
attempt to run because of the HTTP 400 error. There appears therefore to be
an incompatability between IE7 32 bit and Vista x64. Note IE7 32 bit runs
fine on Vista x86 (no HTTP 400 error). Hence cant operate the camera using IE
32 bit on Vista x64.

Eerrrr maybe I need to try Mozilla or other such non-microsoft
browser...unless there are other options?

Kind regards

Ian

"Ian Morris" wrote:

> Thanks Rick,
>
> You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java and is
> it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
> installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit and see
> what happens. I'll post any results I have.
>
> Ian
>
> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>
> > Hi Ian,
> >
> > Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE has
> > compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
> >
> > --
> > Best of Luck,
> >
> > Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> > Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> > My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
> >
> > "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> > newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
> > >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular Sony
> > >CCTV
> > > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do not
> > > get
> > > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other machine.
> > >
> > > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option advanced, I
> > > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a page
> > > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I have
> > > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are the
> > > same.
> > > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability issues
> > > with
> > > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also
> > > running
> > > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any ideas?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Ian
> >
> >

Hi Ian,

I suspect rather that it is a device driver issue, and unless a 64 bit one
is available to support the camera input it's not going to work.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
news76C4952-4A1D-432A-BD22-...
> Rick it looks like you are on the right track...but ...
>
> An Update:
>
> IE 64 bit does not get any HTTP 400 errors with the webpage and behaves
> fine, however, the camera needs Java RTE and there does not seem to be a
> version available for IE7 64bit...so cant operate the camera that way.
>
> IE 32 bit on Vista x64, a different issue here, Java RTE does not even
> attempt to run because of the HTTP 400 error. There appears therefore to
> be
> an incompatability between IE7 32 bit and Vista x64. Note IE7 32 bit runs
> fine on Vista x86 (no HTTP 400 error). Hence cant operate the camera using
> IE
> 32 bit on Vista x64.
>
> Eerrrr maybe I need to try Mozilla or other such non-microsoft
> browser...unless there are other options?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ian
>
> "Ian Morris" wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rick,
>>
>> You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java and
>> is
>> it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
>> installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit and
>> see
>> what happens. I'll post any results I have.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Ian,
>> >
>> > Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE has
>> > compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best of Luck,
>> >
>> > Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> > Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> > My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>> >
>> > "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
>> > newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
>> > >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular
>> > >Sony
>> > >CCTV
>> > > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do
>> > > not
>> > > get
>> > > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other
>> > > machine.
>> > >
>> > > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option
>> > > advanced, I
>> > > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a
>> > > page
>> > > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I
>> > > have
>> > > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are
>> > > the
>> > > same.
>> > > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability
>> > > issues
>> > > with
>> > > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also
>> > > running
>> > > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
>> > >
>> > > Does anyone have any ideas?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > > Ian
>> >
>> >

Thanks Rick, I am aware that .NET is causing problems with some other their
equipment (e.g. uploading firmware cannot be done on a .NET network).

However, in this case I tried downloading Netscape to see what would happen
and it works perfectly (except it naturally cant deal with the ActiveX side
of things) but all the Java etc works (can control and view the camera).

I suspect that there is therefore an current incompatability between IE7 (32
bit) and Vista x64. I imagine when Java JRE comes out for IE x64 these issues
should start to go away. However, other browsers provide an intermediate
workround for non-ActiveX.

Thanks for you suggestions, they really help put me on the right track and
find a workround.

Kind regards

Ian

"Rick Rogers" wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> I suspect rather that it is a device driver issue, and unless a 64 bit one
> is available to support the camera input it's not going to work.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> news76C4952-4A1D-432A-BD22-...
> > Rick it looks like you are on the right track...but ...
> >
> > An Update:
> >
> > IE 64 bit does not get any HTTP 400 errors with the webpage and behaves
> > fine, however, the camera needs Java RTE and there does not seem to be a
> > version available for IE7 64bit...so cant operate the camera that way.
> >
> > IE 32 bit on Vista x64, a different issue here, Java RTE does not even
> > attempt to run because of the HTTP 400 error. There appears therefore to
> > be
> > an incompatability between IE7 32 bit and Vista x64. Note IE7 32 bit runs
> > fine on Vista x86 (no HTTP 400 error). Hence cant operate the camera using
> > IE
> > 32 bit on Vista x64.
> >
> > Eerrrr maybe I need to try Mozilla or other such non-microsoft
> > browser...unless there are other options?
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > "Ian Morris" wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Rick,
> >>
> >> You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java and
> >> is
> >> it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
> >> installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit and
> >> see
> >> what happens. I'll post any results I have.
> >>
> >> Ian
> >>
> >> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Ian,
> >> >
> >> > Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE has
> >> > compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Best of Luck,
> >> >
> >> > Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> >> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> >> > Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> >> > My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> > "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> >> > newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
> >> > >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular
> >> > >Sony
> >> > >CCTV
> >> > > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I do
> >> > > not
> >> > > get
> >> > > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other
> >> > > machine.
> >> > >
> >> > > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option
> >> > > advanced, I
> >> > > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a
> >> > > page
> >> > > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work). I
> >> > > have
> >> > > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they are
> >> > > the
> >> > > same.
> >> > > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability
> >> > > issues
> >> > > with
> >> > > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are also
> >> > > running
> >> > > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
> >> > >
> >> > > Does anyone have any ideas?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > >
> >> > > Ian
> >> >
> >> >
>
>

I don't think this is a driver issue.

HTTP 400 means "Bad Request" - i.e. the web server thinks that the browser
did not send a valid HTTP request.

Now, this could be a bug in the webserver (e.g. it can't handle the HTTP
request from the client) or it could be an issue with IE that you are using.

The only real way to check this woudl be to see exactly what IE is putting
onto the network via a packet capture (or HTTP proxy installed on your
machine). If you are able to install Ethereal/Wireshark (www.wireshark.org)
and get a packet capture we can see where the issue lies

Cheers
Ken

--
Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)
My IIS Blog: www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken

"Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
news:BEAD8838-14DC-4494-84B4-...
> Thanks Rick, I am aware that .NET is causing problems with some other
> their
> equipment (e.g. uploading firmware cannot be done on a .NET network).
>
> However, in this case I tried downloading Netscape to see what would
> happen
> and it works perfectly (except it naturally cant deal with the ActiveX
> side
> of things) but all the Java etc works (can control and view the camera).
>
> I suspect that there is therefore an current incompatability between IE7
> (32
> bit) and Vista x64. I imagine when Java JRE comes out for IE x64 these
> issues
> should start to go away. However, other browsers provide an intermediate
> workround for non-ActiveX.
>
> Thanks for you suggestions, they really help put me on the right track and
> find a workround.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ian
>
> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> I suspect rather that it is a device driver issue, and unless a 64 bit
>> one
>> is available to support the camera input it's not going to work.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>>
>> "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
>> news76C4952-4A1D-432A-BD22-...
>> > Rick it looks like you are on the right track...but ...
>> >
>> > An Update:
>> >
>> > IE 64 bit does not get any HTTP 400 errors with the webpage and behaves
>> > fine, however, the camera needs Java RTE and there does not seem to be
>> > a
>> > version available for IE7 64bit...so cant operate the camera that way.
>> >
>> > IE 32 bit on Vista x64, a different issue here, Java RTE does not even
>> > attempt to run because of the HTTP 400 error. There appears therefore
>> > to
>> > be
>> > an incompatability between IE7 32 bit and Vista x64. Note IE7 32 bit
>> > runs
>> > fine on Vista x86 (no HTTP 400 error). Hence cant operate the camera
>> > using
>> > IE
>> > 32 bit on Vista x64.
>> >
>> > Eerrrr maybe I need to try Mozilla or other such non-microsoft
>> > browser...unless there are other options?
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> >
>> > Ian
>> >
>> > "Ian Morris" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks Rick,
>> >>
>> >> You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java
>> >> and
>> >> is
>> >> it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
>> >> installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit
>> >> and
>> >> see
>> >> what happens. I'll post any results I have.
>> >>
>> >> Ian
>> >>
>> >> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Ian,
>> >> >
>> >> > Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE
>> >> > has
>> >> > compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Best of Luck,
>> >> >
>> >> > Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> >> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> >> > Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> >> > My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>> >> >
>> >> > "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
>> >> > newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
>> >> > >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular
>> >> > >Sony
>> >> > >CCTV
>> >> > > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I
>> >> > > do
>> >> > > not
>> >> > > get
>> >> > > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other
>> >> > > machine.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option
>> >> > > advanced, I
>> >> > > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a
>> >> > > page
>> >> > > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work).
>> >> > > I
>> >> > > have
>> >> > > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they
>> >> > > are
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > same.
>> >> > > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability
>> >> > > issues
>> >> > > with
>> >> > > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are
>> >> > > also
>> >> > > running
>> >> > > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Does anyone have any ideas?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Thanks
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ian
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>
>>

Hi Ken

Thanks for the suggestion, it is interesting to note that the only browser
than thinks there is an invalid request is IE7 32 bit running on Vista x64.
IE7 64 bit and netscape are both happy. This suggests to me that it is more
likely that there is a bug in the 32 bit version of IE7 especially when
running on x64. I did run IE7 32 bit on Vista x86 and it was okay there.

Since I have a work around it is no longer urgent to fully bottom this.
However, if I get a quite moment I will download Wireshark and see what it
says. If I find anything interesting I will post it back here.

Thanks for your suggestion and weblink to wireshark.

Kind regards

Ian

"Ken Schaefer" wrote:

> I don't think this is a driver issue.
>
> HTTP 400 means "Bad Request" - i.e. the web server thinks that the browser
> did not send a valid HTTP request.
>
> Now, this could be a bug in the webserver (e.g. it can't handle the HTTP
> request from the client) or it could be an issue with IE that you are using.
>
> The only real way to check this woudl be to see exactly what IE is putting
> onto the network via a packet capture (or HTTP proxy installed on your
> machine). If you are able to install Ethereal/Wireshark (www.wireshark.org)
> and get a packet capture we can see where the issue lies
>
> Cheers
> Ken
>
> --
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Server (IIS)
> My IIS Blog: www.adOpenStatic.com/cs/blogs/ken
>
> "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> news:BEAD8838-14DC-4494-84B4-...
> > Thanks Rick, I am aware that .NET is causing problems with some other
> > their
> > equipment (e.g. uploading firmware cannot be done on a .NET network).
> >
> > However, in this case I tried downloading Netscape to see what would
> > happen
> > and it works perfectly (except it naturally cant deal with the ActiveX
> > side
> > of things) but all the Java etc works (can control and view the camera).
> >
> > I suspect that there is therefore an current incompatability between IE7
> > (32
> > bit) and Vista x64. I imagine when Java JRE comes out for IE x64 these
> > issues
> > should start to go away. However, other browsers provide an intermediate
> > workround for non-ActiveX.
> >
> > Thanks for you suggestions, they really help put me on the right track and
> > find a workround.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > "Rick Rogers" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Ian,
> >>
> >> I suspect rather that it is a device driver issue, and unless a 64 bit
> >> one
> >> is available to support the camera input it's not going to work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best of Luck,
> >>
> >> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> >> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> >> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> >> news76C4952-4A1D-432A-BD22-...
> >> > Rick it looks like you are on the right track...but ...
> >> >
> >> > An Update:
> >> >
> >> > IE 64 bit does not get any HTTP 400 errors with the webpage and behaves
> >> > fine, however, the camera needs Java RTE and there does not seem to be
> >> > a
> >> > version available for IE7 64bit...so cant operate the camera that way.
> >> >
> >> > IE 32 bit on Vista x64, a different issue here, Java RTE does not even
> >> > attempt to run because of the HTTP 400 error. There appears therefore
> >> > to
> >> > be
> >> > an incompatability between IE7 32 bit and Vista x64. Note IE7 32 bit
> >> > runs
> >> > fine on Vista x86 (no HTTP 400 error). Hence cant operate the camera
> >> > using
> >> > IE
> >> > 32 bit on Vista x64.
> >> >
> >> > Eerrrr maybe I need to try Mozilla or other such non-microsoft
> >> > browser...unless there are other options?
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards
> >> >
> >> > Ian
> >> >
> >> > "Ian Morris" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks Rick,
> >> >>
> >> >> You make a good point. I have been testing with IE 32 bit with Java
> >> >> and
> >> >> is
> >> >> it not working. I have checked IE 64 bit and Java doesnt seem to have
> >> >> installed in that one so..I will try reinstalling Java in the 64 bit
> >> >> and
> >> >> see
> >> >> what happens. I'll post any results I have.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ian
> >> >>
> >> >> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi Ian,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Have you tried using the 32-bit version of IE in x64? The 64-bit IE
> >> >> > has
> >> >> > compatibility problems with some plug-ins.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Best of Luck,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> >> >> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> >> >> > Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> >> >> > My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Ian Morris" <> wrote in message
> >> >> > newsDF557A9-E5E2-4784-A9A8-...
> >> >> > >I have been testing Vista x64 and when I try to access a particular
> >> >> > >Sony
> >> >> > >CCTV
> >> >> > > camera using IE7 on Vista x64 Business I get an HTTP 400 error. I
> >> >> > > do
> >> >> > > not
> >> >> > > get
> >> >> > > this error using either Vista x86 (32 bit) or XP SP2 on any other
> >> >> > > machine.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > If I turn off "User friendly error messages" in the IE Option
> >> >> > > advanced, I
> >> >> > > notice that when the Camera page loads it is blank, but if I do a
> >> >> > > page
> >> >> > > refresh it appears (though I cannot get any of the links to work).
> >> >> > > I
> >> >> > > have
> >> >> > > checked the IE settings with those in Vista x86 and XP and they
> >> >> > > are
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > > same.
> >> >> > > I have also tried removing .NET (since it has known compatability
> >> >> > > issues
> >> >> > > with
> >> >> > > some CCTV cameras) but that made no difference. All machines are
> >> >> > > also
> >> >> > > running
> >> >> > > the same version of Java RTE but that hasnt loaded at this point.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Does anyone have any ideas?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Thanks
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Ian
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
>