HTTP Mail to be or NOT to be: Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail Desktop

Running Vista RC1

I can't figure out Microsoft's strategy with offering eMail,Calendaring,
and contact management services with Vista and/or Live. There appears to
be no direction or even much thought into what a Windows user/Microsoft
customer would want.

Ideally it would be nice to have an integrated solution that includes
Contacts, Email, and Calendar... I don't expect all the features
included with Microsoft Outlook but it would be nice to get some basic
functionality that makes sense and is useful and could be synched or
otherwise available online from wherever one needs it.


Mail Clients
=============
Both these products seem to be some sort of revamp of Outlook Express
with very different feature sets.

Windows Mail -
It seems it doesn't support HTTP mail (Hotmail) any longer... W h y ?
Utilizes Windows Contacts
Doesn't integrate with Windows Calendar..

Windows Live Mail Desktop -
Supports HTTP mail (Hotmail & Live.com)
Doesn't utilize Windows Contacts (Contacts are stored online)
Doesn't integrate with Windows Calendar (Events stored online)


Calendar Clients:
==================
Vista comes with Windows calendar. It looks sweet and I would be glad
to use it too since reminders are not email based.

Windows Calendar
Locally stored
Reminders utilize pop-up windows
Integrates with Windows Contacts.

Windows Live Mail Desktop
Web based calendar
Uses email as vehicle for reminders
No integration with Windows Contacts



Why can't customers in 2007 get a better built-in (included in the box
with Vista) solution for managing basic email, contacts, calendar
events and reminders ?

Reminders via email are only 50% useful.. When not checking email -
there's no "reminder". Once viewed it's done. You don't get another
reminder in x minutes.. I need reminders to be IN MY FACE and repeat
periodically until I dismiss them..

HTTP, Web based, IMAP email.. Isn't this the trend? Why would HTTP mail
be removed from Windows Mail then?

Contacts should be stored online so they're accessible from anywhere and
should be available to both Hotmail/Live accounts as well as local
Windows Mail clients. They should be synched.

The Calendar, Email Client, and Contacts should all have the capability
to run either as services or minimized as system tray applets so that
they're available all the time to check/send email, deliver reminders,
schedule events, look up addresses, etc..


I find the current mix of products and services from Microsoft to be
highly confusing and fails to fulfill my needs with either of their
offerings.

The local solution (Windows Mail, Windows Calendar, Windows Contacts)
comes up short:

No HTTP or Hotmail or Live Mail support.
Calendar must be running in order to get reminders and therefore sits at
the bottom as a minimized program all the time.

The Online solution (Windows Live Mail Desktop) also comes up short.

It can't utilize your Windows Contacts
No pop-up reminders

"Jake" <> wrote in message
news:Xns987C25DD9DA3FBryanbahotmailcom@66.26.32.9. ..
> Running Vista RC1
>
> I can't figure out Microsoft's strategy with offering eMail,Calendaring,
> and contact management services with Vista and/or Live. There appears to
> be no direction or even much thought into what a Windows user/Microsoft
> customer would want.
>
> Ideally it would be nice to have an integrated solution that includes
> Contacts, Email, and Calendar... I don't expect all the features
> included with Microsoft Outlook but it would be nice to get some basic
> functionality that makes sense and is useful and could be synched or
> otherwise available online from wherever one needs it.


I completely agree with you. I've been using OE with Hotmail accounts, as
well as POP3 and IMAP for nearly a decade, and now I am looking for
alternatives to WM. It looks like the WM development team have left this
half-finished and down-featured pile of crap to work on WLMD (which is an
awful program).

There are a few bugs in WM that are really annoying me. I'm only using it
at the moment for these Vista NG's and not for mail or any other usenet use.
The status bar doesn't work properly, the send/receive button doesn't work,
and it highlights posts as you navigate between folders, as well as having
other annoying new features.

The fact that Hotmail accounts are no longer supported is the worst of all.
It really should have been totally integrated with Live Mail and Live
Messenger, for IM, email and Contacts. It could have been a really nice
way to read RSS feeds and have them deleted once read. As it is the WLMD
was is appalling, and the IE7 way doesn't delete read feeds.

The terrible skinned interface and the adverts in WLMD make it totally
unusable for me, and I am probably going to (very reluctantly) move to
Thunderbird, and I'm sure many others will. There is an addon for
Thunderbird that allows interface with Microsoft's own Hotmail accounts now.

I am going to continue to moan in this newsgroup in the vain attempt of
having something done about this travesty.

ss.

"Synapse Syndrome" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> I am going to continue to moan in this newsgroup in the vain attempt of
> having something done about this travesty.


Good luck. I did more than moan for 9 years in direct, face-to-face discussions
with MS, in my attempt to get them to fix problems in Outlook Express. I find
Windows Mail *extremely* disappointing. But Windows Live Mail Desktop is at
_best_ an abysmal abomination.

--
Tom Koch
http://www.insideoe.com
Awareness is free.

"Tom Koch" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Synapse Syndrome" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> I am going to continue to moan in this newsgroup in the vain attempt of
>> having something done about this travesty.
>
>
> Good luck. I did more than moan for 9 years in direct, face-to-face
> discussions with MS, in my attempt to get them to fix problems in Outlook
> Express. I find Windows Mail *extremely* disappointing. But Windows Live
> Mail Desktop is at _best_ an abysmal abomination.
>

Yeah, but people in Vista are complaining they can't delete messages, rather
than as in previous OS's that they lost their messages. That's a big
improvement. <G>

steve



> --
> Tom Koch
> http://www.insideoe.com
> Awareness is free.
>

Synapse Syndrome wrote:
> "Jake" <> wrote in message
> news:Xns987C25DD9DA3FBryanbahotmailcom@66.26.32.9. ..
>> Running Vista RC1
>>
>> I can't figure out Microsoft's strategy with offering eMail,Calendaring,
>> and contact management services with Vista and/or Live. There appears to
>> be no direction or even much thought into what a Windows user/Microsoft
>> customer would want.
>>
>> Ideally it would be nice to have an integrated solution that includes
>> Contacts, Email, and Calendar... I don't expect all the features
>> included with Microsoft Outlook but it would be nice to get some basic
>> functionality that makes sense and is useful and could be synched or
>> otherwise available online from wherever one needs it.
>
>
> I completely agree with you. I've been using OE with Hotmail accounts,
> as well as POP3 and IMAP for nearly a decade, and now I am looking for
> alternatives to WM. It looks like the WM development team have left
> this half-finished and down-featured pile of crap to work on WLMD (which
> is an awful program).
>
> There are a few bugs in WM that are really annoying me. I'm only using
> it at the moment for these Vista NG's and not for mail or any other
> usenet use. The status bar doesn't work properly, the send/receive
> button doesn't work, and it highlights posts as you navigate between
> folders, as well as having other annoying new features.
>
> The fact that Hotmail accounts are no longer supported is the worst of
> all. It really should have been totally integrated with Live Mail and
> Live Messenger, for IM, email and Contacts. It could have been a
> really nice way to read RSS feeds and have them deleted once read. As
> it is the WLMD was is appalling, and the IE7 way doesn't delete read feeds.
>
> The terrible skinned interface and the adverts in WLMD make it totally
> unusable for me, and I am probably going to (very reluctantly) move to
> Thunderbird, and I'm sure many others will. There is an addon for
> Thunderbird that allows interface with Microsoft's own Hotmail accounts
> now.
>
> I am going to continue to moan in this newsgroup in the vain attempt of
> having something done about this travesty.
>
> ss.

Ditto. I have used Hotmail since whatever, and I am very disappointed at
MS decision to drop it's support from WM.

WLMD is horrible because it doesn't integrate into anything.

When RC1 came and I started using solely Vista at home, I struggled a
while with WM and then switched to Thunderbird. It's not perfect, but
atleast with addons I have most of the things I want supported.
Including hotmail.

It doesn't make sense to me.. Why spend the resources on developing and
maintaining two different consumer email products ? Why can't a single
solution be created - call it Microsoft Mail or whatever.. integrate it
with Hotmail/Live mail and give consumers the features that they've been
clamoring for for years.. Heck, build this product and sell it for
$39.95 a copy...

Email is and will continue to move towards the web.. Afterall, MSFT
itself promotes the concept of "the cloud" where data will be stored..
Well .. I want my email, contacts, and calendar events IN THE CLOUD and
I want them accesible from wherever I am. I want a local/client based
app that I can manage and maintain it all with, making contact and
calendar changes locally and having those replicated to the cloud.. .
Afterall I use ONE PC most of the time and I like the performance and
uniqueness of a separate email client as opposed to just another browser
window opened up all the time to hotmail, or some other web based email
service.. I won't use such a browser based email client. I want
reminders to come out of the cloud and hit me like a lightening bolt..
(well maybe not that hard) ,,, I want all this 5 years ago, not 5
years from now..

So far I've not been convinced to upgrade to Vista.. However, a solid,
reliable, easily accesible and managable email/contacts/calendar system
is SO IMPORTANT to me that I would without question upgrade to Vista
Premium for this capability alone. What I see now is a hodgepoge of
features scattered about using different methodologies that's confusing,
unappealing, and downright of little value.. So I'm going to stay with
XP .. I see no reason to switch at this time..


Why is this such a big deal that it hasn't been done yet?
Is it an anti-trust issue?
Is it perhaps a lack of vision?
Is it primarily a profit driven issue where creating such a program may
compete with Outlook with it's exclusive exchange connectivity? I doubt
it..
Is it a lack of ....(deep breath).. i n n o v a t i o n ?


Outlook is a fine product but it is afterall geared more to the business
market and exchange connectibity.. Consumers want this kind of
functionality also though and it's time someone delivers it. The first
imap based email service provider that develops their own local PC based
client that offers all these features will get my business. I'd pay
more than $20 per year for this service and capability.

Microsoft has a golden opportunity to uniquely create and offer a
feature rich email product for consumers with fantastic services and
functionality that I'm sure would be wildly successful and take years
for competitors to catch up with.. Yet they're stumbling along with no
apparent direction whatsoever building multiple consumer products that
come up short in so many essential features but overlap each other with
ordinary and common features ..... creating a huge amount of confusion
and frustration..


I'll keep an eye on Thunderbird but as long as it lacks an integrated
calendar I'm going to sit on the sidelines.. I'll definately get it
when it's ready.

"Jake" <> wrote in message
news:Xns9881DCCFF3DE5Bryanbahotmailcom@66.26.32.8. ..
> It doesn't make sense to me.. Why spend the resources on developing and
> maintaining two different consumer email products ? Why can't a single
> solution be created - call it Microsoft Mail or whatever.. integrate it
> with Hotmail/Live mail and give consumers the features that they've been
> clamoring for for years.. Heck, build this product and sell it for
> $39.95 a copy...
>
> Email is and will continue to move towards the web.. Afterall, MSFT
> itself promotes the concept of "the cloud" where data will be stored..
> Well .. I want my email, contacts, and calendar events IN THE CLOUD and
> I want them accesible from wherever I am. I want a local/client based
> app that I can manage and maintain it all with, making contact and
> calendar changes locally and having those replicated to the cloud.. .
> Afterall I use ONE PC most of the time and I like the performance and
> uniqueness of a separate email client as opposed to just another browser
> window opened up all the time to hotmail, or some other web based email
> service.. I won't use such a browser based email client. I want
> reminders to come out of the cloud and hit me like a lightening bolt..
> (well maybe not that hard) ,,, I want all this 5 years ago, not 5
> years from now..
>
> So far I've not been convinced to upgrade to Vista.. However, a solid,
> reliable, easily accesible and managable email/contacts/calendar system
> is SO IMPORTANT to me that I would without question upgrade to Vista
> Premium for this capability alone. What I see now is a hodgepoge of
> features scattered about using different methodologies that's confusing,
> unappealing, and downright of little value.. So I'm going to stay with
> XP .. I see no reason to switch at this time..
>
>
> Why is this such a big deal that it hasn't been done yet?
> Is it an anti-trust issue?
> Is it perhaps a lack of vision?
> Is it primarily a profit driven issue where creating such a program may
> compete with Outlook with it's exclusive exchange connectivity? I doubt
> it..
> Is it a lack of ....(deep breath).. i n n o v a t i o n ?
>
>
> Outlook is a fine product but it is afterall geared more to the business
> market and exchange connectibity.. Consumers want this kind of
> functionality also though and it's time someone delivers it. The first
> imap based email service provider that develops their own local PC based
> client that offers all these features will get my business. I'd pay
> more than $20 per year for this service and capability.
>
> Microsoft has a golden opportunity to uniquely create and offer a
> feature rich email product for consumers with fantastic services and
> functionality that I'm sure would be wildly successful and take years
> for competitors to catch up with.. Yet they're stumbling along with no
> apparent direction whatsoever building multiple consumer products that
> come up short in so many essential features but overlap each other with
> ordinary and common features ..... creating a huge amount of confusion
> and frustration..
>
>
> I'll keep an eye on Thunderbird but as long as it lacks an integrated
> calendar I'm going to sit on the sidelines.. I'll definately get it
> when it's ready.


http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/

ss.

> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/
>
> ss.
>


I knew about that. It's too complicated to get installed. Few people use
it, and it's not really an integral part of the product. It's still half-
baked but a good idea and I absolutely hope to see it evolve into a decent
competitor to Outlook.. When it becomes easier to install and try out,
I'll take another look at it..

You know what's hilarious, if you have a mac (and now is a great time to jump ship if you've been thinking about it. . .) you can easily configure mac mail or Entourage (microsoft's own product) to access hotmail.

Heck, they ported itunes to windows, maybe they'll port one of those!