Indexing Bug ????

I run a rule (actually a lot of similar rules) which MOVES an incoming
message to a specified folder. The vista search engine reports this email to
both folders; the correct folder where the email has been moved to and also
to the inbox!!!! As you understand this email doesn’t exist in the inbox
because the rule has moved it. Your suggestion to clear and rebuild the index
is not of any use because the search engine duplicates almost all new
messages.
By the way how can I move the preview pane to the bottom? I didn’t find a
way to do this and most probably it is impossible. The 2.6 desktop search
engine of XP was 100 times better than this of the vista.

I see myself reinstalling the XP and I won't be the only one I believe, for
more reasons than only the search engine.

Regards,
Christos


"Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote:

> 2.6 won't work on Vista, sorry. Does it create a new duplicate for each
> message you receive? If it doesn't you can work around this issue by
> unchecking/OK/checking Outlook in Indexing Options -> Modify... dialog. It
> will reindex the emails and get rid of duplicates, faster than rebuilding
> everything.
> Ilia
>
> "Arend" <> wrote in message
> news:60991444-EFAC-41AC-854C-...
> >I am having the same problem also with my emails. The search results report
> > the same email twice. And the funny thing is that the index sees the email
> > twice IN THE SAME FOLDER. If you go to this folder from outlook you see
> > only
> > one email. I urgently need a work around to this problem. Can I install in
> > vista the WDS 2.6 for XP, which did a perfect job?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Christos
> >
> >
> > "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote:
> >
> >> One more thing - the from location is on NTFS partition, right? No FAT32?
> >>
> >> Could you do the following:
> >> - Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
> >> - Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
> >> "Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
> >> - Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
> >> - Wait until the indexer is idle again.
> >> - Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
> >> - Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
> >> - Zip and email me the test1.etl file.
> >>
> >> The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
> >> Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
> >> WILL
> >> contain the name of the file you are moving.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ilia
> >>
> >> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> news:e6PC$...
> >> > That is exactly what I mean, whenever I move file from folder to
> >> > another,
> >> > and the use the search I find file at both location even if they aren't
> >> > in
> >> > the first location anymore.
> >> >
> >> > No need to be sorry, you just want make sure that we understand what
> >> > the
> >> > problem is exactly
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > -----
> >> > Thank you in advance
> >> > Merci a l'avance
> >> >
> >> > Martin
> >> > "Ilia Sacson [MS]" <> wrote in message
> >> > news:...
> >> >> By reproducing I don't mean to find duplicates that exist already, but
> >> >> to
> >> >> create a new duplicate now - create file, move file, does it duplicate
> >> >> in
> >> >> search results? Sorry for asking that many questions, but we can't
> >> >> reproduce this issue, even though it seem to be fairly common in the
> >> >> wild. So I need every possible detail. I wish I could see your gather
> >> >> log
> >> >> files, but these contain file names of all the files indexed, that's
> >> >> personal information.
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Ilia
> >> >>
> >> >> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> >> news:...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Ilia Sacson [MS]" <> wrote in message
> >> >>> news:O$...
> >> >>>> I'm sorry, but I'm not certan that I quite follow you. By default we
> >> >>>> only index C:\Users. So you've had C:\Users and (say) D:\Data
> >> >>>> indexed,
> >> >>>> and the indexer was idle. Then you moved D:\Data\Wrong\foo.txt to
> >> >>>> D:\Data\Right\foo.txt, and now if you search for "foo" you find it
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>> both locations. Is that correct?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Is it easy to reproduce? If you create a new file in the "wrong"
> >> >>>> location now and move it to the "right" one, will you get
> >> >>>> duplicates?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I can replicate it every time that I run a search, and yes it does
> >> >>> affect all file type whether I use tag or filename as a reference
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Also does the problem affect files of all types?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Well, it's not a fix, it's a workaround. It isn't perfect. Once the
> >> >>>> ghosts has been removed, you can add the location back again, that
> >> >>>> will
> >> >>>> index the new files.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thank you for followin up on this,
> >> >>>> Ilia
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>> news:...
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> "Ilia Sacson [MS]" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>> news:...
> >> >>>>>> Dear Martin,
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Can you recall the state of the indexer when you moved the files?
> >> >>>>>> Was
> >> >>>>>> it idle? If not, was it working on a new location you've added via
> >> >>>>>> Control Panel?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> It is not nor was it a new location in the Index, the location is
> >> >>>>> on
> >> >>>>> another HDD than the boot drive, and the state of the Indexing was
> >> >>>>> IDLE
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> As a workaround, you can try excluding the original file location
> >> >>>>>> from the indexing scope. For example, say you index entire D:
> >> >>>>>> drive,
> >> >>>>>> and your files were moved from D:\X to D:\Y. In the control panel,
> >> >>>>>> go
> >> >>>>>> to Modify..., all users, and uncheck D:\Y. If it doesn't exist any
> >> >>>>>> more - create it first. If it exists and is unchecked, check it,
> >> >>>>>> OK,
> >> >>>>>> reopen the dialog and uncheck.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> You're idea is not bad but in this case it would not work very well
> >> >>>>> since I still use the old location to put some new documents that
> >> >>>>> do
> >> >>>>> belong in that location
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>>> Ilia
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>> news:%...
> >> >>>>>>> Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the
> >> >>>>>>> same
> >> >>>>>>> search as before and it still find the files in both location
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm
> >> >>>>>>> using the TAG attribute to search those files
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>> news:...
> >> >>>>>>>> THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search,
> >> >>>>>>>> execpt when I did perform searches
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> "Ilia Sacson [MS]" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>> news:%...
> >> >>>>>>>>> Dear Martin,
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your
> >> >>>>>>>>> alter-ego,
> >> >>>>>>>>> please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something
> >> >>>>>>>>> is
> >> >>>>>>>>> definitly
> >> >>>>>>>>> not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of
> >> >>>>>>>>> it.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> 1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the
> >> >>>>>>>>> event viewer?
> >> >>>>>>>>> It's in Control Panel -> Administrative tools -> Event Viewer
> >> >>>>>>>>> (or
> >> >>>>>>>>> you can
> >> >>>>>>>>> Start->Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event
> >> >>>>>>>>> Viewer
> >> >>>>>>>>> (Local) -> Windows Logs -> Application. To make the log show
> >> >>>>>>>>> Search events
> >> >>>>>>>>> only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and
> >> >>>>>>>>> check "Search"
> >> >>>>>>>>> under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error
> >> >>>>>>>>> events.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> 2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it
> >> >>>>>>>>> creates an entry
> >> >>>>>>>>> in Control Panel -> Problems and Solutions -> View Problem
> >> >>>>>>>>> History. Its
> >> >>>>>>>>> entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and
> >> >>>>>>>>> Search
> >> >>>>>>>>> Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we
> >> >>>>>>>>> have
> >> >>>>>>>>> a memory
> >> >>>>>>>>> snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our
> >> >>>>>>>>> server.
> >> >>>>>>>>> Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details,
> >> >>>>>>>>> and send me
> >> >>>>>>>>> the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see
> >> >>>>>>>>> what's
> >> >>>>>>>>> going on.
> >> >>>>>>>>> Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and
> >> >>>>>>>>> minimal
> >> >>>>>>>>> internal
> >> >>>>>>>>> state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it
> >> >>>>>>>>> crashed
> >> >>>>>>>>> I won't
> >> >>>>>>>>> be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should
> >> >>>>>>>>> be
> >> >>>>>>>>> an extra
> >> >>>>>>>>> entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe
> >> >>>>>>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> problem".
> >> >>>>>>>>> You can email them to me directly.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer
> >> >>>>>>>>> issues, but they
> >> >>>>>>>>> are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >> >>>>>>>>> Ilia
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> "Martin Racette" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>>> news:e3tQSQ$...
> >> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was
> >> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> >>>>>>>>>> try and find a way to fix this
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I
> >> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >> >>>>>>>>>> so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I
> >> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never
> >> >>>>>>>>>> finished yet
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> "Ilia Sacson [MS]" <> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>>>> news:%23yMVnF%...
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Cap. Kirk,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> stuff),
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> index
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> my
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Indexing
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> work
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> without being able to search.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> bug -
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> would
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> here, if you need one that is.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Ilia
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> news:%...
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> thousands
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> of other downloads and other files.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> those
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> changes?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> too
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> for
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results!
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> it. Not turned on be default
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "...winston" <merlin@druid9#.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> news:...
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> on
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> two machines...the information was provided as an option.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> updated
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> indexed, it took about 15 minutes.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder

Earlier on this thread I've asked Martin to collect some error logs for me.
I'd greatly appreciate it if you could follow the instructions I gave him
and send me the logs. I'd also need to know what version of Outlook you are
running. You can email me at .

Thanks,
Ilia

"Arend" <> wrote in message
news:3C101671-A909-484F-AB78-...
>I run a rule (actually a lot of similar rules) which MOVES an incoming
> message to a specified folder. The vista search engine reports this email
> to
> both folders; the correct folder where the email has been moved to and
> also
> to the inbox!!!! As you understand this email doesn’t exist in the inbox
> because the rule has moved it. Your suggestion to clear and rebuild the
> index
> is not of any use because the search engine duplicates almost all new
> messages.
> By the way how can I move the preview pane to the bottom? I didn’t find a
> way to do this and most probably it is impossible. The 2.6 desktop search
> engine of XP was 100 times better than this of the vista.
>
> I see myself reinstalling the XP and I won't be the only one I believe,
> for
> more reasons than only the search engine.
>
> Regards,
> Christos
>

....
>> >> Could you do the following:
>> >> - Open Indexing Options, wait until the indexer is idle.
>> >> - Run the following command: logman start "test1" -p
>> >> "Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core" -o "test1.etl" -ets
>> >> - Move a file from one indexed location to another indexed location.
>> >> - Wait until the indexer is idle again.
>> >> - Run the following command: logman stop "test1" -ets
>> >> - Verify that moving created a duplicate. If it didn't - try again.
>> >> - Zip and email me the test1.etl file.
>> >>
>> >> The ETL file will contain the sequence of events inside the indexer.
>> >> Hopefully it will allow me to undertand your problem better. Note - it
>> >> WILL
>> >> contain the name of the file you are moving.
....

> What I'm really after, is a predictable Search that can be trusted to
> find things. I don't mind if it takes a while; what I don't want is
> something that lies to me about what is or is not present.

You will probably never get a predictable search that can be trusted
from Microsoft.

I have not tried it on Vista yet, but I used Agent Ransack for
searches in XP. Did more than an adequate job.