Interesting development...

Well, to me, anyway...

I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home Basic
on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM, is
that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to see how
that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't imagine that the
deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make that much of a
difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my assumptions. Maybe
not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)

Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.

And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium? For
$70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and a
larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well, of
course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf the
web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage photos and
work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully realizing, of
course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find 3rd party apps that
work as well, and very possibly better, than the native Vista photo/video
apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd party route regardless of the
flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC, then maybe Basic makes more
sense, money wise.

It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and thought
I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however, that this
doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so common in this
NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot." Please... spare me...

Lang

And about time too. Poor old Home Basic seems to get a dreadful bashing -
mostly because of the low amount of RAM that the OEMs have been putting in
the boxes - along with no decent gpu.

Home Basic on an Ultimate-compatible box fair flies ;-)

I did a test a while ago - Home Basic, 1.5GB RAM, WDDM gpu - loaded it up
with open source/cross-platform programs, all of which installed and ran in
a standard user context, btw, and it was quite impressive. Not everybody
needs or uses Media Center stuff. I didn't even miss the Aero.....much

--
Jane, not plain 64 bit enabled :-)
Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
MVP Windows Shell/User

"Lang Murphy" <> wrote in message
news:45B8B813-2AAA-4C6B-B4D8-...
> Well, to me, anyway...
>
> I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home
> Basic on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
> running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
> personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM, is
> that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to see how
> that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't imagine that
> the deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make that much of a
> difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my assumptions. Maybe
> not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)
>
> Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.
>
> And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium?
> For $70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and a
> larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well, of
> course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf the
> web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage photos and
> work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully realizing, of
> course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find 3rd party apps
> that work as well, and very possibly better, than the native Vista
> photo/video apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd party route
> regardless of the flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC, then maybe
> Basic makes more sense, money wise.
>
> It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and
> thought I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however,
> that this doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so
> common in this NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot." Please...
> spare me...
>
> Lang
>
>
>
>

Those are for people who perceive they have little or no use of computers.
I don't have the current data but the last one I have which was at least 3-4
years ago - around 30% of US households. The key message, however, is those
who don't have don't think they need one.

But if user experience is such terrible, it will only ratify their beliefs
on they don't need computers. So I praise Dell (or other OEM's) for
correcting it.


"Lang Murphy" <> wrote in message
news:45B8B813-2AAA-4C6B-B4D8-...
> Well, to me, anyway...
>
> I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home
> Basic on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
> running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
> personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM, is
> that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to see how
> that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't imagine that
> the deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make that much of a
> difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my assumptions. Maybe
> not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)
>
> Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.
>
> And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium?
> For $70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and a
> larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well, of
> course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf the
> web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage photos and
> work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully realizing, of
> course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find 3rd party apps
> that work as well, and very possibly better, than the native Vista
> photo/video apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd party route
> regardless of the flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC, then maybe
> Basic makes more sense, money wise.
>
> It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and
> thought I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however,
> that this doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so
> common in this NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot." Please...
> spare me...
>
> Lang
>
>
>
>

Running the Vista upgrade advisor on a variety of machines,

512mb and low end video card = Vista Basic
512mb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Home Premium
1gb and low end video card = Vista Business
1gb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Ultimate
2gb and low end video card = Vista Business
2gb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Ultimate


"Lang Murphy" <> wrote in message
news:45B8B813-2AAA-4C6B-B4D8-...
> Well, to me, anyway...
>
> I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home
> Basic on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
> running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
> personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM, is
> that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to see how
> that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't imagine that
> the deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make that much of a
> difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my assumptions. Maybe
> not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)
>
> Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.
>
> And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium?
> For $70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and a
> larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well, of
> course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf the
> web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage photos and
> work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully realizing, of
> course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find 3rd party apps
> that work as well, and very possibly better, than the native Vista
> photo/video apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd party route
> regardless of the flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC, then maybe
> Basic makes more sense, money wise.
>
> It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and
> thought I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however,
> that this doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so
> common in this NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot." Please...
> spare me...
>
> Lang
>
>
>
>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Lang Murphy wrote:
> Well, to me, anyway...
>
> I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home
> Basic on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
> running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
> personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM,
> is that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to
> see how that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't
> imagine that the deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make
> that much of a difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my
> assumptions. Maybe not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)
>
> Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.
>
> And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium?
> For $70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and
> a larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well,
> of course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf
> the web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage
> photos and work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully
> realizing, of course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find
> 3rd party apps that work as well, and very possibly better, than the
> native Vista photo/video apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd
> party route regardless of the flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC,
> then maybe Basic makes more sense, money wise.
>
> It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and
> thought I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however,
> that this doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so
> common in this NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot."
> Please... spare me...
>

This is similar to what happened when XP first came out in 2001. OEMs
like HP and Dell were selling XP HE on machines with 256MB of RAM. I
still see boxen like that from clients. XP HE will run on 256MB RAM but
not well, needing at least 512MB to be decent and 1GB (and proper
configuration) really makes it fly. I used to have SUSE on the box where
I now have Vista. With 512MB, SUSE was completely zippy. I've got 1.5GB
on there with Vista Ultimate and it still feels stodgy to me.

We're in the early stages of Vista. When hardware/software products are
truly Vista-compatible, a lot of the problems we're seeing will go away.
As for why sell Basic, I can't answer that because I'm not a marketing
person but $70 is a week's worth of groceries for some of us.

You make thoughtful and interesting posts and I like reading them but
your hope that this thread won't turn into a flamewar is futile. There
will always be trolls. ;-)



Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

"Jane C" <> wrote in message
news:5FEEB774-AFFE-4399-A64F-...
> And about time too. Poor old Home Basic seems to get a dreadful bashing -
> mostly because of the low amount of RAM that the OEMs have been putting in
> the boxes - along with no decent gpu.
>
> Home Basic on an Ultimate-compatible box fair flies ;-)
>
> I did a test a while ago - Home Basic, 1.5GB RAM, WDDM gpu - loaded it up
> with open source/cross-platform programs, all of which installed and ran
> in a standard user context, btw, and it was quite impressive. Not
> everybody needs or uses Media Center stuff. I didn't even miss the
> Aero.....much
>
> --
> Jane, not plain 64 bit enabled :-)
> Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation ;-)
> MVP Windows Shell/User
>
<snip original post>

Any flavor of Vista on a seat with 512MB's RAM will probably end up getting
bashed. I think it's possible that some folks think they can get away with
512MB's RAM, and I've seen posts from folks in here that have 512MB's RAM
and find it sufficient to their needs, but I still think it's way
underpowered. There was a post from a guy who wonders if 512MB RAM will be
sufficient to run Basic and Office 2003... maybe to run Basic... maybe to
run Basic with a single Office app open... and... maybe not. I'd rather
spend the extra cash on bringing a seat up to a gig of RAM than have to deal
with the probable performance hit one takes running Vista with 512MB's RAM.

Aero's OK. My favorite feature is the thumbnail windows that pop when the
mouse hovers over the taskbar. (Especially with Remote Desktop windows...
you can see what's going on on the other PC without having to open that
window... small point, and I like it.)

Thanks for the response!

Lang

"xfile" <cou-> wrote in message
news:...
> Those are for people who perceive they have little or no use of computers.
> I don't have the current data but the last one I have which was at least
> 3-4 years ago - around 30% of US households. The key message, however, is
> those who don't have don't think they need one.
>
> But if user experience is such terrible, it will only ratify their beliefs
> on they don't need computers. So I praise Dell (or other OEM's) for
> correcting it.
>

<snip original post>

xfile...

Yes, I think it's great Dell is pumping up their Home Basic offerings to a
gig of RAM.

I was reading the Office Depot flyer this afternoon and right on the front
cover (lower right) there's a box that states "Enhance the Performance of
your 512MB up to 2GB - FREE Sandisk 2GB ReadyBoost USB drive with purchase
of any 512MB Notebook - Use Windows Vista ReadyBoost for an instant Upgrade
of up to 2GB without opening the PC."

Well, needless to say, I think this advertising is misleading... surely not
to the technically savvy who know how USB flash drives and ReadyBoost work
to improve the performance of a Vista PC... but the non-technically savvy
might read that, uh, differently? I'd bet on it...

Lang

"Mike Hall - MVP" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Running the Vista upgrade advisor on a variety of machines,
>
> 512mb and low end video card = Vista Basic
> 512mb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Home Premium
> 1gb and low end video card = Vista Business
> 1gb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Ultimate
> 2gb and low end video card = Vista Business
> 2gb and higher end Aero compatible video card = Vista Ultimate
>
<snip original post>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>

Well... I've always taken the upgrade advisor's recommendation with a shovel
full of salt. That's kind of an odd table... Home Premium is only suited to
PC's with 512MB RAM? That makes no sense. Not to me, anyway. I can only
assume the requirements were created a "long" time ago (long in terms of
Vista...) because, frankly, LOL, I'd stay away from 512MB RAM and would
recommend 2GB's to all who can afford it.

Thanks for the response!

Lang

"Malke" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Lang Murphy wrote:
>> Well, to me, anyway...
>>
>> I've been bitching and moaning about how OEM's are shipping Vista Home
>> Basic on PC's that have 512MB's RAM. I don't think that's sufficient for
>> running -any- flavor or Vista. My personal opinion, formulatted from
>> personal experience running Vista Ultimate on a laptop with 512MB RAM, is
>> that Vista needs at least 1GB RAM. Yeah, I should install Basic to see
>> how that runs under 512MB RAM, but I haven't, and I just can't imagine
>> that the deltas between Basic and Ultimate are going to make that much of
>> a difference. (Read: Aero.) Maybe I'm outta line with my assumptions.
>> Maybe not. I'm sure I'll be enlightened... ;-)
>>
>> Anyway... Dell is now selling PC's with Vista Basic and 1GB RAM.
>>
>> And -now- I have to wonder... why not sell those PC's with Home Premium?
>> For $70 more than the PC's with Basic, you can get a PC with Premium and
>> a larger flat screen monitor (17" vs. 15"). Hmm... is it worth it? Well,
>> of course, it depends on how one uses one's PC. If all one does is surf
>> the web, then Basic fits the bill, I guess. If one wants to manage photos
>> and work with video, then Premium may better fit the bill, fully
>> realizing, of course, that one can get Basic and then go off and find 3rd
>> party apps that work as well, and very possibly better, than the native
>> Vista photo/video apps. I guess if one is going to go the 3rd party route
>> regardless of the flavor of Vista delivered with the new PC, then maybe
>> Basic makes more sense, money wise.
>>
>> It's no big deal... I just had a few spare minutes to post this and
>> thought I'd throw it out... respond as you like. I would hope, however,
>> that this doesn't turn into one of those flame war threads that seem so
>> common in this NG. "You're a dope." "Oh, yeah? You're an idiot."
>> Please... spare me...
>>
>
> This is similar to what happened when XP first came out in 2001. OEMs like
> HP and Dell were selling XP HE on machines with 256MB of RAM. I still see
> boxen like that from clients. XP HE will run on 256MB RAM but not well,
> needing at least 512MB to be decent and 1GB (and proper configuration)
> really makes it fly. I used to have SUSE on the box where I now have
> Vista. With 512MB, SUSE was completely zippy. I've got 1.5GB on there with
> Vista Ultimate and it still feels stodgy to me.
>
> We're in the early stages of Vista. When hardware/software products are
> truly Vista-compatible, a lot of the problems we're seeing will go away.
> As for why sell Basic, I can't answer that because I'm not a marketing
> person but $70 is a week's worth of groceries for some of us.
>
> You make thoughtful and interesting posts and I like reading them but your
> hope that this thread won't turn into a flamewar is futile. There will
> always be trolls. ;-)
>
>
>
> Malke
> --
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic!"
> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User


I can't remember the minimum RAM recommedations for Windows ever being -not-
under spec'd. I have an XP Home box here that came with 512MB RAM which I
upgraded to a gig and that box runs lickety split, even after two years.
I've got 3 Vista boxes running Ulitmate here... 2 have 2GB's and one has
1.5GB. They all run acceptably for me.

Yes, good point on the $70... with two kids off in college, I've found a
deeper appreciation of what I used to consider "spare" cash. Now...
here -is- no "spare" cash... I've been waiting to get a Vista compatible TV
tuner card and saw an ATI 550 on Buy.com for $50. Gee, I'd love to get it,
but the budget won't allow it at the moment.

Just thought I'd push for a non-flame thread, for a change... ;-) Whether
that actually works out or not remains to be seen. The first 4 replies were
civil. Let's hope that trend carries forward... not just in this thread but
in others too.

Thanks,

Lang

LOL.

I understand, but allow me to defend for marketing or copywriters (knowing
they are among the condemned in this group), their job is to get messages
across in 3 seconds.

1001, 1002, 1003 - Time's up.

So, that's the pressure. Sometime, they don't know what they're writing
about but the pressure is there - 3 seconds.

Take care.


"Lang Murphy" <> wrote in message
news:3A376259-FD14-4439-926F-...
> "xfile" <cou-> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Those are for people who perceive they have little or no use of
>> computers. I don't have the current data but the last one I have which
>> was at least 3-4 years ago - around 30% of US households. The key
>> message, however, is those who don't have don't think they need one.
>>
>> But if user experience is such terrible, it will only ratify their
>> beliefs on they don't need computers. So I praise Dell (or other OEM's)
>> for correcting it.
>>
>
> <snip original post>
>
> xfile...
>
> Yes, I think it's great Dell is pumping up their Home Basic offerings to a
> gig of RAM.
>
> I was reading the Office Depot flyer this afternoon and right on the front
> cover (lower right) there's a box that states "Enhance the Performance of
> your 512MB up to 2GB - FREE Sandisk 2GB ReadyBoost USB drive with purchase
> of any 512MB Notebook - Use Windows Vista ReadyBoost for an instant
> Upgrade of up to 2GB without opening the PC."
>
> Well, needless to say, I think this advertising is misleading... surely
> not to the technically savvy who know how USB flash drives and ReadyBoost
> work to improve the performance of a Vista PC... but the non-technically
> savvy might read that, uh, differently? I'd bet on it...
>
> Lang