Long delay before the updates appear

Hello, I'm accessing WU from IE6. I'm using this path:
ie6/tools/windows update/express.

When I hit express, I get the animation with the green bars as it does
it's thing.
Problem is it takes 6 or 7 minutes before the list appears.
While I was waiting, I used task manager (in windows 2000) to look at
cpu
utilization. One of the svchost.exe was using 98% the whole time.
I opened up sysinternals process explorer and see that this svchost is
associated with
wuauserv.

After about 7 minutes the list appears and I hit "install". The
progress box appears,
and I see the update downloading one at a time. Then it says
"initializing installation"
(or similar). Here it takes another 6 or 7 minutes before anthing
happens. Once again
svchost/wuauser is using all the cpu. Eventually, everything installs
normally.

Any troubleshooting advice appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave

That is how it's suppose to work ... even though it takes a long time (on
some connections).

There are many variables involved:

1. Your connection speed
2. Your CPU
3. The load on MS server
4. The number of servers you go thru to get there.

That's just the connection side. The communication side is just as
involving:

1. Once you get connected up, svchost and wuaclt.exe talk with the other
side and pass initial information back and forth. The basically use the
information in your C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore\DataStor e.edb
file. This is a multi-partitioned file ... to view it use esentutl and dump
the meta-data.

The information is basically history information that is compared with the
info on MS. In this fashion, this is the only way MS determines what you
have and don't have. It also initially determines if your Update software
is up-to-date, in order to determine if it needs to update that first.

This is the first 6-7 minutes ... the more updates you have the longer it
takes.

Once the history is determined, MS then determines of the updates available,
which ones are pertinent to your system.

Then it initializes the Installation procedure and goes thru a series of
downloading packets to the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder
as well as keeping the DataStore.edb file up-to-date as it proceeds.

Once everything is downloaded, it then proceeds to install. Each folder
normally has a update folder that contains an update.exe and some *.inf
file. The *.inf file contains the information on reboot instructions
(whether the system should reboot after installation), and/or registry
modifications. All this information is logged in a C:\Windows\KB*.log file
as well as the C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log.

Once all this is done, the notification that the installations have been
performed and whether or not the system needs to be rebooted. If I'm doing
a manual download/install, I normally chose the Close button, so that I can
see the results of the downloads/installs. Then I manually reboot.

The problem that arises is when DLLs are not re-registered (when in one of
the packages), you run out of space, or you receive a partial download and
the connection is broken.

This really screws up the DataStore.edb file.

Regardless, I have yet to see where the Download folder gets cleaned up
after successful installs and you have these packages sitting around takeing
up space. Supposedly, I believe I read somewhere, where these folders/files
are removed after 45 days. Haven't seen it, but really haven't kept tabs.


"davexnet" <> wrote in message
news: ups.com...
> Hello, I'm accessing WU from IE6. I'm using this path:
> ie6/tools/windows update/express.
>
> When I hit express, I get the animation with the green bars as it does
> it's thing.
> Problem is it takes 6 or 7 minutes before the list appears.
> While I was waiting, I used task manager (in windows 2000) to look at
> cpu
> utilization. One of the svchost.exe was using 98% the whole time.
> I opened up sysinternals process explorer and see that this svchost is
> associated with
> wuauserv.
>
> After about 7 minutes the list appears and I hit "install". The
> progress box appears,
> and I see the update downloading one at a time. Then it says
> "initializing installation"
> (or similar). Here it takes another 6 or 7 minutes before anthing
> happens. Once again
> svchost/wuauser is using all the cpu. Eventually, everything installs
> normally.
>
> Any troubleshooting advice appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Dave
>

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:14:36 -0400, "NewScience"
<> wrote:
Thanks for this detailed background. It's good info, but I don't
see an answer to my problem here. See below.
>That is how it's suppose to work ... even though it takes a long time (on
>some connections).
>
>There are many variables involved:
>
>1. Your connection speed
Cable modem - 550 KB/sec
>2. Your CPU
Admittedly slow, AMD K6 3+
>3. The load on MS server
>4. The number of servers you go thru to get there.
>
>That's just the connection side. The communication side is just as
>involving:
>
>1. Once you get connected up, svchost and wuaclt.exe talk with the other
>side and pass initial information back and forth.
Is this where I'm seeing 98% of the cpu consumed for 6 minutes?
This is not normal, it can't be.
> The basically use the
>information in your C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore\DataStor e.edb
>file. This is a multi-partitioned file ... to view it use esentutl and dump
>the meta-data.
I deleted the whole datastore, it still took 6 minutes, so I put the
old datastore back (my history was gone. It's a long history too,
255 updates since Nov 2000 ) Once I put it back, history restored.
>
>The information is basically history information that is compared with the
>info on MS. In this fashion, this is the only way MS determines what you
>have and don't have. It also initially determines if your Update software
>is up-to-date, in order to determine if it needs to update that first.
>
>This is the first 6-7 minutes ... the more updates you have the longer it
>takes.
>
>Once the history is determined, MS then determines of the updates available,
>which ones are pertinent to your system.
>
>Then it initializes the Installation procedure and goes thru a series of
>downloading packets to the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder
>as well as keeping the DataStore.edb file up-to-date as it proceeds.
>
>Once everything is downloaded, it then proceeds to install.
After my updates were downloaded, as I said, another 6 or 7 minutes
was consumed while the process was "initializing"
> Each folder
>normally has a update folder that contains an update.exe and some *.inf
>file. The *.inf file contains the information on reboot instructions
>(whether the system should reboot after installation), and/or registry
>modifications. All this information is logged in a C:\Windows\KB*.log file
>as well as the C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log.
>
>Once all this is done, the notification that the installations have been
>performed and whether or not the system needs to be rebooted. If I'm doing
>a manual download/install, I normally chose the Close button, so that I can
>see the results of the downloads/installs. Then I manually reboot.
>
>The problem that arises is when DLLs are not re-registered (when in one of
>the packages), you run out of space, or you receive a partial download and
>the connection is broken.
>
>This really screws up the DataStore.edb file.
>
>Regardless, I have yet to see where the Download folder gets cleaned up
>after successful installs and you have these packages sitting around takeing
>up space. Supposedly, I believe I read somewhere, where these folders/files
>are removed after 45 days. Haven't seen it, but really haven't kept tabs.
Thanks for all this great info - One last thing, I'm on a dual boot
system. Win2k having the problem. However, if I boot 98SE,
ie6 / WU proceeds in a much more timely fashion.
The "checking for updates" takes about 25 seconds.
Dave
>

Plus you don't have all the overhead that comes from each and better Windows
system ... let alone sizes of critical updates and the amount size of the
DataStore.edb file.

Plus, I'm sure that your Windows 98SE and Windows 2000 are not identical in
nature as far as third-party applications and memory utilization procedures.

"dave xnet" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:14:36 -0400, "NewScience"
> <> wrote:
> Thanks for this detailed background. It's good info, but I don't
> see an answer to my problem here. See below.
>>That is how it's suppose to work ... even though it takes a long time (on
>>some connections).
>>
>>There are many variables involved:
>>
>>1. Your connection speed
> Cable modem - 550 KB/sec
>>2. Your CPU
> Admittedly slow, AMD K6 3+
>>3. The load on MS server
>>4. The number of servers you go thru to get there.
>>
>>That's just the connection side. The communication side is just as
>>involving:
>>
>>1. Once you get connected up, svchost and wuaclt.exe talk with the other
>>side and pass initial information back and forth.
> Is this where I'm seeing 98% of the cpu consumed for 6 minutes?
> This is not normal, it can't be.
>> The basically use the
>>information in your
>>C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore\DataSt ore.edb
>>file. This is a multi-partitioned file ... to view it use esentutl and
>>dump
>>the meta-data.
> I deleted the whole datastore, it still took 6 minutes, so I put the
> old datastore back (my history was gone. It's a long history too,
> 255 updates since Nov 2000 ) Once I put it back, history restored.
>>
>>The information is basically history information that is compared with the
>>info on MS. In this fashion, this is the only way MS determines what you
>>have and don't have. It also initially determines if your Update software
>>is up-to-date, in order to determine if it needs to update that first.
>>
>>This is the first 6-7 minutes ... the more updates you have the longer it
>>takes.
>>
>>Once the history is determined, MS then determines of the updates
>>available,
>>which ones are pertinent to your system.
>>
>>Then it initializes the Installation procedure and goes thru a series of
>>downloading packets to the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder
>>as well as keeping the DataStore.edb file up-to-date as it proceeds.
>>
>>Once everything is downloaded, it then proceeds to install.
> After my updates were downloaded, as I said, another 6 or 7 minutes
> was consumed while the process was "initializing"
>> Each folder
>>normally has a update folder that contains an update.exe and some *.inf
>>file. The *.inf file contains the information on reboot instructions
>>(whether the system should reboot after installation), and/or registry
>>modifications. All this information is logged in a C:\Windows\KB*.log
>>file
>>as well as the C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log.
>>
>>Once all this is done, the notification that the installations have been
>>performed and whether or not the system needs to be rebooted. If I'm
>>doing
>>a manual download/install, I normally chose the Close button, so that I
>>can
>>see the results of the downloads/installs. Then I manually reboot.
>>
>>The problem that arises is when DLLs are not re-registered (when in one of
>>the packages), you run out of space, or you receive a partial download and
>>the connection is broken.
>>
>>This really screws up the DataStore.edb file.
>>
>>Regardless, I have yet to see where the Download folder gets cleaned up
>>after successful installs and you have these packages sitting around
>>takeing
>>up space. Supposedly, I believe I read somewhere, where these
>>folders/files
>>are removed after 45 days. Haven't seen it, but really haven't kept tabs.
> Thanks for all this great info - One last thing, I'm on a dual boot
> system. Win2k having the problem. However, if I boot 98SE,
> ie6 / WU proceeds in a much more timely fashion.
> The "checking for updates" takes about 25 seconds.
> Dave
>>

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:56:10 -0400, "NewScience"
<> wrote:

>Plus you don't have all the overhead that comes from each and better Windows
>system ... let alone sizes of critical updates and the amount size of the
>DataStore.edb file.
>
>Plus, I'm sure that your Windows 98SE and Windows 2000 are not identical in
>nature as far as third-party applications and memory utilization procedures.
>
Of course not, 98se, is a slightly older install, and it has more
"Stuff" on it. On the otherhand, my win2k is fairly lean.

Using process explorer I can see that all the cpu is being exhausted
in a thread called RtlpWorkerThread.
Unfortunately, I'm not a windows programmer, so the significance
of that is not apparent.
Dave

"NewScience" wrote:

> That is how it's suppose to work ... even though it takes a long time (on
> some connections).
>
> There are many variables involved:
>
> 1. Your connection speed
> 2. Your CPU
> 3. The load on MS server
> 4. The number of servers you go thru to get there.
>
> That's just the connection side. The communication side is just as
> involving:
>
> 1. Once you get connected up, svchost and wuaclt.exe talk with the other
> side and pass initial information back and forth. The basically use the
> information in your C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore\DataStor e.edb
> file. This is a multi-partitioned file ... to view it use esentutl and dump
> the meta-data.
>
> The information is basically history information that is compared with the
> info on MS. In this fashion, this is the only way MS determines what you
> have and don't have. It also initially determines if your Update software
> is up-to-date, in order to determine if it needs to update that first.
>
> This is the first 6-7 minutes ... the more updates you have the longer it
> takes.
>
> Once the history is determined, MS then determines of the updates available,
> which ones are pertinent to your system.
>
> Then it initializes the Installation procedure and goes thru a series of
> downloading packets to the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder
> as well as keeping the DataStore.edb file up-to-date as it proceeds.
>
> Once everything is downloaded, it then proceeds to install. Each folder
> normally has a update folder that contains an update.exe and some *.inf
> file. The *.inf file contains the information on reboot instructions
> (whether the system should reboot after installation), and/or registry
> modifications. All this information is logged in a C:\Windows\KB*.log file
> as well as the C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log.
>
> Once all this is done, the notification that the installations have been
> performed and whether or not the system needs to be rebooted. If I'm doing
> a manual download/install, I normally chose the Close button, so that I can
> see the results of the downloads/installs. Then I manually reboot.
>
> The problem that arises is when DLLs are not re-registered (when in one of
> the packages), you run out of space, or you receive a partial download and
> the connection is broken.
>
> This really screws up the DataStore.edb file.
>
> Regardless, I have yet to see where the Download folder gets cleaned up
> after successful installs and you have these packages sitting around takeing
> up space. Supposedly, I believe I read somewhere, where these folders/files
> are removed after 45 days. Haven't seen it, but really haven't kept tabs.
>
>
> "davexnet" <> wrote in message
> news: ups.com...
> > Hello, I'm accessing WU from IE6. I'm using this path:
> > ie6/tools/windows update/express.
> >
> > When I hit express, I get the animation with the green bars as it does
> > it's thing.
> > Problem is it takes 6 or 7 minutes before the list appears.
> > While I was waiting, I used task manager (in windows 2000) to look at
> > cpu
> > utilization. One of the svchost.exe was using 98% the whole time.
> > I opened up sysinternals process explorer and see that this svchost is
> > associated with
> > wuauserv.
> >
> > After about 7 minutes the list appears and I hit "install". The
> > progress box appears,
> > and I see the update downloading one at a time. Then it says
> > "initializing installation"
> > (or similar). Here it takes another 6 or 7 minutes before anthing
> > happens. Once again
> > svchost/wuauser is using all the cpu. Eventually, everything installs
> > normally.
> >
> > Any troubleshooting advice appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
> >
>
>
>

Hi,
I have been suffering the same problem. Not only does it take a long time,
but svchost uses up to 98% of CPU utilization, ensuring you can do nothing
else for that time.

Also, I have three PCs connected through the same Internet connection and
only one of them suffers this problem. I have had to turn off automatic
updates to stop it from randomly hogging my CPU. But every time I use MS
Update or Windows Update on this PC, the same thing happens every time.

If it IS the way it is supposed to work, it is a very poor piece of
engineering and needs to be fixed. (No app should hog 98% of CPU). But as
this delay does not happen on all PCs it would indicate that there is another
problem somewhere.

I'd certainly like to hear from anyone who has been able to overcome this
issue.

Cheers, Steve A


"NewScience" wrote:

> That is how it's suppose to work ... even though it takes a long time (on
> some connections).
>
> There are many variables involved:
>
> 1. Your connection speed
> 2. Your CPU
> 3. The load on MS server
> 4. The number of servers you go thru to get there.
>
> That's just the connection side. The communication side is just as
> involving:
>
> 1. Once you get connected up, svchost and wuaclt.exe talk with the other
> side and pass initial information back and forth. The basically use the
> information in your C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore\DataStor e.edb
> file. This is a multi-partitioned file ... to view it use esentutl and dump
> the meta-data.
>
> The information is basically history information that is compared with the
> info on MS. In this fashion, this is the only way MS determines what you
> have and don't have. It also initially determines if your Update software
> is up-to-date, in order to determine if it needs to update that first.
>
> This is the first 6-7 minutes ... the more updates you have the longer it
> takes.
>
> Once the history is determined, MS then determines of the updates available,
> which ones are pertinent to your system.
>
> Then it initializes the Installation procedure and goes thru a series of
> downloading packets to the C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download folder
> as well as keeping the DataStore.edb file up-to-date as it proceeds.
>
> Once everything is downloaded, it then proceeds to install. Each folder
> normally has a update folder that contains an update.exe and some *.inf
> file. The *.inf file contains the information on reboot instructions
> (whether the system should reboot after installation), and/or registry
> modifications. All this information is logged in a C:\Windows\KB*.log file
> as well as the C:\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log.
>
> Once all this is done, the notification that the installations have been
> performed and whether or not the system needs to be rebooted. If I'm doing
> a manual download/install, I normally chose the Close button, so that I can
> see the results of the downloads/installs. Then I manually reboot.
>
> The problem that arises is when DLLs are not re-registered (when in one of
> the packages), you run out of space, or you receive a partial download and
> the connection is broken.
>
> This really screws up the DataStore.edb file.
>
> Regardless, I have yet to see where the Download folder gets cleaned up
> after successful installs and you have these packages sitting around takeing
> up space. Supposedly, I believe I read somewhere, where these folders/files
> are removed after 45 days. Haven't seen it, but really haven't kept tabs.
>
>
> "davexnet" <> wrote in message
> news: ups.com...
> > Hello, I'm accessing WU from IE6. I'm using this path:
> > ie6/tools/windows update/express.
> >
> > When I hit express, I get the animation with the green bars as it does
> > it's thing.
> > Problem is it takes 6 or 7 minutes before the list appears.
> > While I was waiting, I used task manager (in windows 2000) to look at
> > cpu
> > utilization. One of the svchost.exe was using 98% the whole time.
> > I opened up sysinternals process explorer and see that this svchost is
> > associated with
> > wuauserv.
> >
> > After about 7 minutes the list appears and I hit "install". The
> > progress box appears,
> > and I see the update downloading one at a time. Then it says
> > "initializing installation"
> > (or similar). Here it takes another 6 or 7 minutes before anthing
> > happens. Once again
> > svchost/wuauser is using all the cpu. Eventually, everything installs
> > normally.
> >
> > Any troubleshooting advice appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
> >
>
>
>

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:10:02 -0700, Steve A
<steve_750(takethisaway)@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>I have been suffering the same problem. Not only does it take a long time,
>but svchost uses up to 98% of CPU utilization, ensuring you can do nothing
>else for that time.
>
>Also, I have three PCs connected through the same Internet connection and
>only one of them suffers this problem. I have had to turn off automatic
>updates to stop it from randomly hogging my CPU. But every time I use MS
>Update or Windows Update on this PC, the same thing happens every time.
>
>If it IS the way it is supposed to work, it is a very poor piece of
>engineering and needs to be fixed. (No app should hog 98% of CPU). But as
>this delay does not happen on all PCs it would indicate that there is another
>problem somewhere.
>
>I'd certainly like to hear from anyone who has been able to overcome this
>issue.
>
>Cheers, Steve A
>
>
Here's a few things I tried.
First I ran an ie6 repair. Didn't do anything that I
could detect.
Next I ran SFC /SCANNOW. This process restored
the "proper" version of a couple of files, 'cause their
digital signatures were wrong.

When I tried ie6/tools/WU/express again, it
recommended I apply the sp4 rollup 1
(I'm using windows 2000) and some other ie6 security
fix which I had installed ages ago... Apparently, the files
restored by SFC /scannow had regressed something.

Before downloading those updates, I opened up a CMD
box and ran qfecheck.. This told me that 5 or 6 fixes
should be reapplied.

I downloaded and installed the fixes suggrested by WU,
installed and rebooted. Windows update/express still takes
a while, but it seems quicker than before. About 1 1/2 - 2
minutes.

Oh before I forget, I also did the ntfs permissions as suggested by
this http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909444/en-us
My permissions were wrong (can't hurt).
Something for you to check !
Dave