looking at SBS 2008...

I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...

1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the sbs
premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to afford two
servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front. Can we still run
everything on one server with the premium version until such time that a
second server can be purchased and installed OR do we need to install in two
server mode right away?

2) SBS 20208 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment on
how good that backup software really is? We are currently using Symantec
backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able to save on
the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the sbs 2008
offering...

Please advise!

Thanks, Brad

Brad Pears wrote:

>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>
>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the sbs
>premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to afford two
>servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front. Can we still
>run everything on one server with the premium version until such time that
>a second server can be purchased and installed OR do we need to install in
>two server mode right away?

It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.

>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment on
>how good that backup software really is? We are currently using Symantec
>backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able to save on
>the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the sbs 2008
>offering...

SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider it
to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to think
about:

* 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses clever
trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than you'd
expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups, but a bad
block could render all backups non-functional).
* If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those, and
that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.

--
Steve Foster
------------
Please reply only to the newsgroups.
For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.: https://netshop.virtual-isp.net

Hmmm, ok thanks Steve... you've given me some things to think about there...

Maybe I won't ditch Backup Exec too quickly then... We currenrly perform
daily and weekly backup to disk and monthly we also backup to tape as well
as disk... The tapes then go to offsite storage. I do like having tapes
just in case... but that's likely just the old guy in me... I also
understand sbs 2008 backup does not support USB drives without 3rd party
software...

Brad

"Steve Foster" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Brad Pears wrote:
>
>>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>>
>>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the sbs
>>premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to afford two
>>servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front. Can we still
>>run everything on one server with the premium version until such time that
>>a second server can be purchased and installed OR do we need to install in
>>two server mode right away?
>
> It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
> point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.
>
>>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment on
>>how good that backup software really is? We are currently using Symantec
>>backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able to save on
>>the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the sbs 2008
>>offering...
>
> SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider it
> to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to think
> about:
>
> * 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses clever
> trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than you'd
> expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups, but a bad
> block could render all backups non-functional).
> * If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those, and
> that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.
>
> --
> Steve Foster
> ------------
> Please reply only to the newsgroups.
> For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
> https://netshop.virtual-isp.net

On the USB: The reference to needing third party support for USB
functionality was in the situation where you are running the SBS server
virtualized. When run directly on the hardware, no third-party software is
needed to use external USB drives for backup--that is the expected model.

The native backup mechanism works much like a Windows Home Server backup--it
backs up the drive by cluster, and clusters with identical checksums are not
backed up again--so a complete image can be reconstructed from the original
backup and any of the subsequent partials--when you pop in a new clean
drive, a new complete backup is done, and then further backups to that drive
are partial, but again, can be reconstructed as full backups.

This method is very efficient and also very fast--my backups take about 15
minutes--and I do them at noon, 5 PM and 11 PM. I added the 11 PM because I
was having some trouble getting the drive change done properly, and
sometimes the 5 PM one would fail--but an incremental backup where nothing
changes takes very little disk space--I have backups back to August on one
of my 500 gig backup drives, and still space for more.

There is no provision for workstation backups. If you need that, I'd
strongly recommend using a Windows Home Server for that job--it is very good
at it and inexpensive as well.

"Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hmmm, ok thanks Steve... you've given me some things to think about
> there...
>
> Maybe I won't ditch Backup Exec too quickly then... We currenrly perform
> daily and weekly backup to disk and monthly we also backup to tape as well
> as disk... The tapes then go to offsite storage. I do like having tapes
> just in case... but that's likely just the old guy in me... I also
> understand sbs 2008 backup does not support USB drives without 3rd party
> software...
>
> Brad
>
> "Steve Foster" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Brad Pears wrote:
>>
>>>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>>>
>>>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>>>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the sbs
>>>premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to afford two
>>>servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front. Can we still
>>>run everything on one server with the premium version until such time
>>>that a second server can be purchased and installed OR do we need to
>>>install in two server mode right away?
>>
>> It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
>> point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.
>>
>>>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment
>>>on how good that backup software really is? We are currently using
>>>Symantec backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able
>>>to save on the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the
>>>sbs 2008 offering...
>>
>> SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider it
>> to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to think
>> about:
>>
>> * 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses clever
>> trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than you'd
>> expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups, but a bad
>> block could render all backups non-functional).
>> * If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those, and
>> that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.
>>
>> --
>> Steve Foster
>> ------------
>> Please reply only to the newsgroups.
>> For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
>> https://netshop.virtual-isp.net
>
>

Ok, we wouldn;t be running the backups on the virtualized server anyway
because isn't the virtualized server for the 2nd server in an SBS premium
environemnt to run SQL on? I would be running the backups on the main SBS
machine. (the 1st server)

I guess for us there is still the issue of backing up to tape - which we
still do on a monthly basis. I have been thinking about replacing the
monthly tape backup with inexpensive USB disks that I can unplug and take
offsite - in this manner totally doing away with the tapes altogether. Still
haven;t decided on that 100% though. Maybe the next time my tape drive
breaks down, rather than have it repaired - I will go that route.... At
least I will get all I can out of that expensive drive!!!! It is an eight
tape autoloader.

Thanks again,
Brad
"Bill Sanderson" <> wrote in message
news:AC183E6F-FD49-4367-8B56-...
> On the USB: The reference to needing third party support for USB
> functionality was in the situation where you are running the SBS server
> virtualized. When run directly on the hardware, no third-party software
> is needed to use external USB drives for backup--that is the expected
> model.
>
> The native backup mechanism works much like a Windows Home Server
> backup--it backs up the drive by cluster, and clusters with identical
> checksums are not backed up again--so a complete image can be
> reconstructed from the original backup and any of the subsequent
> partials--when you pop in a new clean drive, a new complete backup is
> done, and then further backups to that drive are partial, but again, can
> be reconstructed as full backups.
>
> This method is very efficient and also very fast--my backups take about 15
> minutes--and I do them at noon, 5 PM and 11 PM. I added the 11 PM because
> I was having some trouble getting the drive change done properly, and
> sometimes the 5 PM one would fail--but an incremental backup where nothing
> changes takes very little disk space--I have backups back to August on one
> of my 500 gig backup drives, and still space for more.
>
> There is no provision for workstation backups. If you need that, I'd
> strongly recommend using a Windows Home Server for that job--it is very
> good at it and inexpensive as well.
>
> "Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Hmmm, ok thanks Steve... you've given me some things to think about
>> there...
>>
>> Maybe I won't ditch Backup Exec too quickly then... We currenrly perform
>> daily and weekly backup to disk and monthly we also backup to tape as
>> well as disk... The tapes then go to offsite storage. I do like having
>> tapes just in case... but that's likely just the old guy in me... I also
>> understand sbs 2008 backup does not support USB drives without 3rd party
>> software...
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> "Steve Foster" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Brad Pears wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>>>>
>>>>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>>>>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the sbs
>>>>premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to afford two
>>>>servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front. Can we still
>>>>run everything on one server with the premium version until such time
>>>>that a second server can be purchased and installed OR do we need to
>>>>install in two server mode right away?
>>>
>>> It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
>>> point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.
>>>
>>>>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment
>>>>on how good that backup software really is? We are currently using
>>>>Symantec backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able
>>>>to save on the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the
>>>>sbs 2008 offering...
>>>
>>> SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider
>>> it to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to
>>> think about:
>>>
>>> * 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses clever
>>> trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than you'd
>>> expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups, but a
>>> bad block could render all backups non-functional).
>>> * If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those, and
>>> that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Foster
>>> ------------
>>> Please reply only to the newsgroups.
>>> For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
>>> https://netshop.virtual-isp.net
>>
>>

If your tape has the capacity you need, you'll need third-party software to
keep using it. Inexpensive USB drives are pretty attractive--and the speed
of the built-in backup system is attractive, too.

I would do a bit more study on the virtualization stuff--I'm not sure you
have the right picture yet.

I believe one proposal in this thread is that you run the free virtual
server software on the primary hardware you have, and then run SBS-2008 as a
virtual server under that, as well as the second server for SQL, perhaps.
This is a scenario that a number of folks are using, I believe--I chickened
out, myself--didn't do it that way--but the more you know about
virtualization technologies, the better off you will be in the future, as
far as I can see--so study the stuff.

"Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Ok, we wouldn;t be running the backups on the virtualized server anyway
> because isn't the virtualized server for the 2nd server in an SBS premium
> environemnt to run SQL on? I would be running the backups on the main SBS
> machine. (the 1st server)
>
> I guess for us there is still the issue of backing up to tape - which we
> still do on a monthly basis. I have been thinking about replacing the
> monthly tape backup with inexpensive USB disks that I can unplug and take
> offsite - in this manner totally doing away with the tapes altogether.
> Still haven;t decided on that 100% though. Maybe the next time my tape
> drive breaks down, rather than have it repaired - I will go that route....
> At least I will get all I can out of that expensive drive!!!! It is an
> eight tape autoloader.
>
> Thanks again,
> Brad
> "Bill Sanderson" <> wrote in message
> news:AC183E6F-FD49-4367-8B56-...
>> On the USB: The reference to needing third party support for USB
>> functionality was in the situation where you are running the SBS server
>> virtualized. When run directly on the hardware, no third-party software
>> is needed to use external USB drives for backup--that is the expected
>> model.
>>
>> The native backup mechanism works much like a Windows Home Server
>> backup--it backs up the drive by cluster, and clusters with identical
>> checksums are not backed up again--so a complete image can be
>> reconstructed from the original backup and any of the subsequent
>> partials--when you pop in a new clean drive, a new complete backup is
>> done, and then further backups to that drive are partial, but again, can
>> be reconstructed as full backups.
>>
>> This method is very efficient and also very fast--my backups take about
>> 15 minutes--and I do them at noon, 5 PM and 11 PM. I added the 11 PM
>> because I was having some trouble getting the drive change done properly,
>> and sometimes the 5 PM one would fail--but an incremental backup where
>> nothing changes takes very little disk space--I have backups back to
>> August on one of my 500 gig backup drives, and still space for more.
>>
>> There is no provision for workstation backups. If you need that, I'd
>> strongly recommend using a Windows Home Server for that job--it is very
>> good at it and inexpensive as well.
>>
>> "Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Hmmm, ok thanks Steve... you've given me some things to think about
>>> there...
>>>
>>> Maybe I won't ditch Backup Exec too quickly then... We currenrly perform
>>> daily and weekly backup to disk and monthly we also backup to tape as
>>> well as disk... The tapes then go to offsite storage. I do like having
>>> tapes just in case... but that's likely just the old guy in me... I
>>> also understand sbs 2008 backup does not support USB drives without 3rd
>>> party software...
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> "Steve Foster" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> Brad Pears wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>>>>>
>>>>>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>>>>>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the
>>>>>sbs premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to
>>>>>afford two servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front.
>>>>>Can we still run everything on one server with the premium version
>>>>>until such time that a second server can be purchased and installed OR
>>>>>do we need to install in two server mode right away?
>>>>
>>>> It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
>>>> point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.
>>>>
>>>>>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can comment
>>>>>on how good that backup software really is? We are currently using
>>>>>Symantec backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd be able
>>>>>to save on the annual maintenance costs if it could be replaced by the
>>>>>sbs 2008 offering...
>>>>
>>>> SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider
>>>> it to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to
>>>> think about:
>>>>
>>>> * 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses
>>>> clever trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than
>>>> you'd expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups,
>>>> but a bad block could render all backups non-functional).
>>>> * If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those,
>>>> and that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Foster
>>>> ------------
>>>> Please reply only to the newsgroups.
>>>> For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
>>>> https://netshop.virtual-isp.net
>>>
>>>
>
>

Thanks Bill...

Ok, I get the picture now... But I am not too big on that scenario... I like
the idea of running the primary server as only a primary server - no
virtualization... plus, I can then use one of my newer Dell servers to do
it - which is 64 bit capable but not virualization capable. This saves me a
few $'s and allows me to utilize existing equipment thus improving ROI.

I'll purhcase a new 2nd server next year and do the SQL portion under a
hyper-v vm on that machine... If need be, I'll start creating vm's for other
stuff on that server. I plan on bringing it in as a dual xeon processor
machine with 12gb ram initially...

By the sounds of it, I think you can go a little too nuts with the
virtualization stuff sometimes with no really valid reasons either, other
than "it's cool" - at least that's how it appears to me. I think
virtualization defiantely has it's place and can really help but you have to
be sure it is implemented properly and for the right reasons.

Brad
"Bill Sanderson" <> wrote in message
news:75DC6F94-4691-4223-AC77-...
> If your tape has the capacity you need, you'll need third-party software
> to keep using it. Inexpensive USB drives are pretty attractive--and the
> speed of the built-in backup system is attractive, too.
>
> I would do a bit more study on the virtualization stuff--I'm not sure you
> have the right picture yet.
>
> I believe one proposal in this thread is that you run the free virtual
> server software on the primary hardware you have, and then run SBS-2008 as
> a virtual server under that, as well as the second server for SQL,
> perhaps. This is a scenario that a number of folks are using, I believe--I
> chickened out, myself--didn't do it that way--but the more you know about
> virtualization technologies, the better off you will be in the future, as
> far as I can see--so study the stuff.
>
> "Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Ok, we wouldn;t be running the backups on the virtualized server anyway
>> because isn't the virtualized server for the 2nd server in an SBS premium
>> environemnt to run SQL on? I would be running the backups on the main
>> SBS machine. (the 1st server)
>>
>> I guess for us there is still the issue of backing up to tape - which we
>> still do on a monthly basis. I have been thinking about replacing the
>> monthly tape backup with inexpensive USB disks that I can unplug and take
>> offsite - in this manner totally doing away with the tapes altogether.
>> Still haven;t decided on that 100% though. Maybe the next time my tape
>> drive breaks down, rather than have it repaired - I will go that
>> route.... At least I will get all I can out of that expensive drive!!!!
>> It is an eight tape autoloader.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Brad
>> "Bill Sanderson" <> wrote in message
>> news:AC183E6F-FD49-4367-8B56-...
>>> On the USB: The reference to needing third party support for USB
>>> functionality was in the situation where you are running the SBS server
>>> virtualized. When run directly on the hardware, no third-party software
>>> is needed to use external USB drives for backup--that is the expected
>>> model.
>>>
>>> The native backup mechanism works much like a Windows Home Server
>>> backup--it backs up the drive by cluster, and clusters with identical
>>> checksums are not backed up again--so a complete image can be
>>> reconstructed from the original backup and any of the subsequent
>>> partials--when you pop in a new clean drive, a new complete backup is
>>> done, and then further backups to that drive are partial, but again, can
>>> be reconstructed as full backups.
>>>
>>> This method is very efficient and also very fast--my backups take about
>>> 15 minutes--and I do them at noon, 5 PM and 11 PM. I added the 11 PM
>>> because I was having some trouble getting the drive change done
>>> properly, and sometimes the 5 PM one would fail--but an incremental
>>> backup where nothing changes takes very little disk space--I have
>>> backups back to August on one of my 500 gig backup drives, and still
>>> space for more.
>>>
>>> There is no provision for workstation backups. If you need that, I'd
>>> strongly recommend using a Windows Home Server for that job--it is very
>>> good at it and inexpensive as well.
>>>
>>> "Brad Pears" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> Hmmm, ok thanks Steve... you've given me some things to think about
>>>> there...
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I won't ditch Backup Exec too quickly then... We currenrly
>>>> perform daily and weekly backup to disk and monthly we also backup to
>>>> tape as well as disk... The tapes then go to offsite storage. I do
>>>> like having tapes just in case... but that's likely just the old guy
>>>> in me... I also understand sbs 2008 backup does not support USB drives
>>>> without 3rd party software...
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>> "Steve Foster" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:...
>>>>> Brad Pears wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a couple of questions re: SBS 2008...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) We are looking at moving to SBS 2008 from SBS 2000 - our current
>>>>>>environment. I would like to exercise the two-server option that the
>>>>>>sbs premium version allows - however we are going to be unable to
>>>>>>afford two servers as well as the sbs software and licences up front.
>>>>>>Can we still run everything on one server with the premium version
>>>>>>until such time that a second server can be purchased and installed OR
>>>>>>do we need to install in two server mode right away?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's entirely optional whether you install a second server or not. The
>>>>> point is that the licence provides for it, should you have the need.
>>>>>
>>>>>>2) SBS 2008 includes backup software and I wonder if anyone can
>>>>>>comment on how good that backup software really is? We are currently
>>>>>>using Symantec backup exec ver 12.5 on it's own "backup" server. We'd
>>>>>>be able to save on the annual maintenance costs if it could be
>>>>>>replaced by the sbs 2008 offering...
>>>>>
>>>>> SBS has always included native backup capability. Whether you consider
>>>>> it to be adequate or not is a question you have to consider. Points to
>>>>> think about:
>>>>>
>>>>> * 2008 backup is basically imaging to disk (using VHDs), and uses
>>>>> clever trickery to store multiple "full" backups with less space than
>>>>> you'd expect (basically, it shares common blocks between the backups,
>>>>> but a bad block could render all backups non-functional).
>>>>> * If you like tapes, SBS2008 no longer has native support for those,
>>>>> and that's an area where 3rd-party choices are obligatory.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Steve Foster
>>>>> ------------
>>>>> Please reply only to the newsgroups.
>>>>> For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.:
>>>>> https://netshop.virtual-isp.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>