Microsoft announces Windows Vista SP1

More info at
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...ck-1-beta.aspx.

High level of what will be in SP1

"In addition to updates we’ve previously released, SP1 will contain
changes focused on addressing specific reliability and performance
issues we’ve identified via customer feedback, supporting new types of
hardware, and adding support for several emerging standards. SP1 also
makes additional improvements to the IT administration experience. We
didn’t design SP1 as a vehicle for releasing new features; however, some
existing components do gain enhanced functionality in SP1."

For additional details see
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx

Beta status:

"A Beta release of Windows Vista SP1 is slated for availability in the
next few weeks. A small group of testers has been putting a preview of
the SP1 Beta through its paces to help prepare for broader release. We
made the choice to start with a very small group of testers because we
think it’s better for both our customers and for Microsoft to keep the
beta program small at the start.

A later pre-release of SP1 will be available to a larger group of
testers via MSDN and TechNet subscribers."

Final release:

"We're targeting releasing SP1 to manufacturing in the first quarter of
2008, but as always, we’re first and foremost focused on delivering a
high-quality release, so we'll determine the exact release date of SP1
after we have reached that quality bar."
--
Tom Porterfield

It's long overdue that MSFT makes WinRE available to millions of end users
who bought pre-loaded machines from OEM Named partners except Dell who were
forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD.

Unfortunately it's not scheduled until the first quarter of 2008 or beyond.
It's been abundant on the Torrents for a month.

That phenomenon also accounts for the several posts per 24 hours we see here
and in the setup group that are laced with "I can't boot to Vista and I
don't have a DVD" or "I can't open my control panel or access Add/Remove"
and "I don't have a DVD."

CH

"Tom Porterfield" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> More info at
> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...ck-1-beta.aspx.
>
> High level of what will be in SP1
>
> "In addition to updates we’ve previously released, SP1 will contain
> changes focused on addressing specific reliability and performance issues
> we’ve identified via customer feedback, supporting new types of hardware,
> and adding support for several emerging standards. SP1 also makes
> additional improvements to the IT administration experience. We didn’t
> design SP1 as a vehicle for releasing new features; however, some existing
> components do gain enhanced functionality in SP1."
>
> For additional details see
> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>
> Beta status:
>
> "A Beta release of Windows Vista SP1 is slated for availability in the
> next few weeks. A small group of testers has been putting a preview of
> the SP1 Beta through its paces to help prepare for broader release. We
> made the choice to start with a very small group of testers because we
> think it’s better for both our customers and for Microsoft to keep the
> beta program small at the start.
>
> A later pre-release of SP1 will be available to a larger group of testers
> via MSDN and TechNet subscribers."
>
> Final release:
>
> "We're targeting releasing SP1 to manufacturing in the first quarter of
> 2008, but as always, we’re first and foremost focused on delivering a
> high-quality release, so we'll determine the exact release date of SP1
> after we have reached that quality bar."
> --
> Tom Porterfield

"...forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD"
The OEMs have options of which that is one so I doubt your statement
is completely true.
Many OEMs simply choose what is cheapest as many customers demand the
lowest price.
However I await the source for your comment showing OEMS were forced
not to provide a DVD and also has no other options.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:...
> It's long overdue that MSFT makes WinRE available to millions of end
> users who bought pre-loaded machines from OEM Named partners except
> Dell who were forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD.
>
> Unfortunately it's not scheduled until the first quarter of 2008 or
> beyond. It's been abundant on the Torrents for a month.
>
> That phenomenon also accounts for the several posts per 24 hours we
> see here and in the setup group that are laced with "I can't boot to
> Vista and I don't have a DVD" or "I can't open my control panel or
> access Add/Remove" and "I don't have a DVD."
>
> CH

I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you cannot show me
any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have the option you always
say they do. Many of them have shown me language in their contracts with
MSFT that force this to happen. It's a topic no one wants to discuss at
MSFT, and obviously not those of their MVPs who are fanboys. It's a lot
like Rove and Gonzales defending whatever the Bush administration lies
about.

One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is Scott Di
Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is closed off to the
public by phone! Most people who know who they want to reach at the Redmond
campus can easily do so. But not Scott. Scott makes Cheney look outgoing
and personable. Appropriate for the OEM VP he has training as an accountant
but no training as a system builder and no training in IT whatsoever.

Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD at a price
point.

Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new box sale.

You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here every day
and night--the person with a significant Vista problem or problems,
sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The hidden partition or
recovery disk fails completely, and they don't have a DVD to use Win RE's
Startup Repair or it's System Restore access among other options to try to
fix Vista.

That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of leaving their
end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is shipping Win RE with
every Vista SP1 when it finally is released to the public sometime around
the first quarter of 2008.

Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to Beta testers
is readily available all over the web having leaked as usual to Torrents.

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx

http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx

CH


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> "...forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD"
> The OEMs have options of which that is one so I doubt your statement is
> completely true.
> Many OEMs simply choose what is cheapest as many customers demand the
> lowest price.
> However I await the source for your comment showing OEMS were forced not
> to provide a DVD and also has no other options.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
> news:...
>> It's long overdue that MSFT makes WinRE available to millions of end
>> users who bought pre-loaded machines from OEM Named partners except Dell
>> who were forced by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD.
>>
>> Unfortunately it's not scheduled until the first quarter of 2008 or
>> beyond. It's been abundant on the Torrents for a month.
>>
>> That phenomenon also accounts for the several posts per 24 hours we see
>> here and in the setup group that are laced with "I can't boot to Vista
>> and I don't have a DVD" or "I can't open my control panel or access
>> Add/Remove" and "I don't have a DVD."
>>
>> CH
>

"...the fanboy component of you..."
Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value to
contribute.
Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to
insult others, we shall see.

You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your
dislike of Microsoft.
In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that
option.
There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can all
easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but seem to
ignore.

"Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
Who says?
Some do, but why must they?
It would be better for their customers, but that is not always what
drives business.
An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run their
businesses.

"Many of them have shown me language..."
This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
Exactly What?
The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what little
you do provide.

"You also conveniently neglect..."
Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
You never asked.

"Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?

Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and even a
little irrelevant politics.
Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need to
prop them up with such irrelevancies.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:...
>I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you cannot
>show me any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have the
>option you always say they do. Many of them have shown me language
>in their contracts with MSFT that force this to happen. It's a topic
>no one wants to discuss at MSFT, and obviously not those of their
>MVPs who are fanboys. It's a lot like Rove and Gonzales defending
>whatever the Bush administration lies about.
>
> One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is
> Scott Di Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is closed
> off to the public by phone! Most people who know who they want to
> reach at the Redmond campus can easily do so. But not Scott. Scott
> makes Cheney look outgoing and personable. Appropriate for the OEM
> VP he has training as an accountant but no training as a system
> builder and no training in IT whatsoever.
>
> Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD at
> a price point.
>
> Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new
> box sale.
>
> You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here
> every day and night--the person with a significant Vista problem or
> problems, sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The hidden
> partition or recovery disk fails completely, and they don't have a
> DVD to use Win RE's Startup Repair or it's System Restore access
> among other options to try to fix Vista.
>
> That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of leaving
> their end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is shipping
> Win RE with every Vista SP1 when it finally is released to the
> public sometime around the first quarter of 2008.
>
> Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to Beta
> testers is readily available all over the web having leaked as usual
> to Torrents.
>
> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>
> http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx
>
> CH

Able to deal with the issues? Confidence lacking in my views? LOL. Which
issues and views? I fix as many things here as you do and as well when I
have time. I try to help here and other groups when I think I can. I
wasn't insulting you personally, although your paranoia leaped to the
occasion, but while I know the MVP Code of Conduct to stay in good standing
(implied if not written) is to defend MSFT at all times, that to me is not
constructive criticism.

I have defended them plenty when it's warranted. However, during XP and
during Vista, their efforts to suprress OEM computer makers from shipping a
DVD (and they are real) is not in the best interests of their customers.
They have finally absolved this sin by offering it in Vista SP1 although not
for many months to the public. It's been in alpha testing and available to
a small group of testers now. The public needs Win RE yesterday.

I don't see anything that would fall into the category of concrete evidence
that you've offered. First of all you know it's not conincidence that over
300 OEM Named partners didn't ship an XP CD for six years, a Win 2K CD for
years prior, and don't ship a Vista DVD. That's not by accident or
serindepity.

It's intriguing to me that MSFT is adamant that no one will discuss it.
They absolutely have turned somersaults to avoid talking about it when
asked,and I've done it many times. The setup and restore/backup personnel
always insisted that OEMs were shipping Win RE on a partition or a disc, and
it didn't take much time to research and discover that absolutely was not
the case. They knew it wasn't, and finally in several months while they
aren't shipping a DVD to everyone who purchased a pre-loaded Vista PC --they
will at least deliver Win RE via SP1.

You have the elliptical connections of an MVP to Redmond; you have a
"handler" or a contact person. Put the question to them. See how much
smoke and mirrors you'll evoke. Get them to tell you about the contracts
generated out of Scott Di Valerio's office. I've been specific, and you've
been full of generalities.

You've been on this group a long time. I wonder how many value judgements
you make a year that are as wrong as the perception that I "disklike" MSFT.
That's just not the case. I get a lot out of their software and their
websites, know a good number of them, have learned a lot from them and their
sites and their blogs and continue to, and I have a pretty decent command of
their resources that aren't purely developer oriented.

If I dislkied MSFT, why would I spend as much time as I do helping their end
users/customers on this group and others to fix Windows (and other
software). That's a ludicrous assertion and you have nothing to back it up.

However, I know the reality is, even with improved compressed backup in
Vista, and slightly less functionality in backup in Win One Care, the
availability of reliable programs like Acronis, and the wide array of
external or portable hard drives available at lower prices.that the majority
of people are simply still not going to backup. MSFT bloggers have pegged
that number at as high as 75% of Windows users. I hope that number will go
down in the next few years in some kind of herd immunity movement, but I'm a
realist.

I have always felt strongly that if someone allows MSFT and the OEM Named
partners to make a huge profit, they owe their loyal customers a reliable
way to recover instead of intentionally denying it as they have.

Actually what you say is fluff. You "all can't simply check with an OEM."
How would you? Phone up the salaried sales person in their small cube and
ask them? Actually it would take some digging. Your blow off is pretty
transparent. You don't want to know the answer so you make it up. I gave
you the specific MO and I told you who is largely responsible for the
decision at Redmond. Try using your MVPness to get to Scott Di Valerio's
office. They will probably lie to you and deny it anyway.

What drives business for the most part at Microsoft is simple--profit.

I don't think you can provide me with the name of one OEM named partner who
provides the DVD for Vista except Dell.

"The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media" Whoops name one other OEM that
provides a Vista DVD. I'm not talking about media. Recovery discs are
media and most of them work as well as a hip hop CD/DVD to repair Vista or
XP.

I wasn't looking to dictate how OEMs run their businesses. I'm just in the
position of trying to put Vista or other Windows OS's back together when
they're broken, same as you are. I'd like to have the tools in MSFT's
customer's hands to help them do this more successfully and effectively.

It is a little bit curious, but not surprising why people who are
developers, PMS and testers, and writer liasons on the
setup/recovery/backup/SR teams kept insisting that Win RE was available via
OEMs on media and pre-setup partitions (hidden and unhidden) because they
were in a position to find out otherwise and most of them if not all of them
knew that wasn't the case. A couple button pushes on their cells/ or their
MSN Mess would have underscored that.

You weren't the stunt double for Marty Short when he played the character of
the lawyer Ed Grimley on Saturday Night Live by any chance were you?

http://www.katfm.com/images/80s_nerds/Ed_Grimley.jpg

What's stopping you from picking up your phone, calling Di Valerio's office,
and asking the pointed questions about the contracts they do enforce besides
Fan Boy fantasy?

The fact that MSFT has denied the OS on CDs during Win 2K and Win XP and
during Vista to millions of users is hardly "irrelevant." It's important,
it's onpoint, and accounts for the multitude of posts here every day and
every week that have the tell tale phrase "I don't have a Vista DVD" in
them.

CH


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:Od1VHEq6HHA.1148@TK2MSFTNGP/05.phx.gbl...
> "...the fanboy component of you..."
> Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value to
> contribute.
> Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to insult
> others, we shall see.
>
> You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
> It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your dislike of
> Microsoft.
> In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
> The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that option.
> There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can all
> easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
> That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but seem to
> ignore.
>
> "Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
> Who says?
> Some do, but why must they?
> It would be better for their customers, but that is not always what drives
> business.
> An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
> I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run their
> businesses.
>
> "Many of them have shown me language..."
> This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
> Exactly What?
> The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what little you
> do provide.
>
> "You also conveniently neglect..."
> Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
> You never asked.
>
> "Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
> Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
> Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?
>
> Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and even a
> little irrelevant politics.
> Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need to prop
> them up with such irrelevancies.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
> news:...
>>I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you cannot show
>>me any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have the option you
>>always say they do. Many of them have shown me language in their
>>contracts with MSFT that force this to happen. It's a topic no one wants
>>to discuss at MSFT, and obviously not those of their MVPs who are fanboys.
>>It's a lot like Rove and Gonzales defending whatever the Bush
>>administration lies about.
>>
>> One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is Scott
>> Di Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is closed off to the
>> public by phone! Most people who know who they want to reach at the
>> Redmond campus can easily do so. But not Scott. Scott makes Cheney look
>> outgoing and personable. Appropriate for the OEM VP he has training as
>> an accountant but no training as a system builder and no training in IT
>> whatsoever.
>>
>> Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD at a
>> price point.
>>
>> Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new box
>> sale.
>>
>> You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here every
>> day and night--the person with a significant Vista problem or problems,
>> sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The hidden partition or
>> recovery disk fails completely, and they don't have a DVD to use Win RE's
>> Startup Repair or it's System Restore access among other options to try
>> to fix Vista.
>>
>> That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of leaving
>> their end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is shipping Win RE
>> with every Vista SP1 when it finally is released to the public sometime
>> around the first quarter of 2008.
>>
>> Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to Beta
>> testers is readily available all over the web having leaked as usual to
>> Torrents.
>>
>> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>>
>> http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx
>>
>> CH
>

A lot of words and still no proof.
You CHOOSE to ignore the evidence I gave, how convenient for your
agenda.

More justifications of your insults, only you know of your need to
insult instead of dealing with simply the facts.

Post back when you can post without your need to insult.
Otherwise your post will simply be to boost your own ego as no other
purpose will be served.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:%...
> Able to deal with the issues? Confidence lacking in my views? LOL.
> Which issues and views? I fix as many things here as you do and as
> well when I have time. I try to help here and other groups when I
> think I can. I wasn't insulting you personally, although your
> paranoia leaped to the occasion, but while I know the MVP Code of
> Conduct to stay in good standing (implied if not written) is to
> defend MSFT at all times, that to me is not constructive criticism.
>
> I have defended them plenty when it's warranted. However, during XP
> and during Vista, their efforts to suprress OEM computer makers from
> shipping a DVD (and they are real) is not in the best interests of
> their customers. They have finally absolved this sin by offering it
> in Vista SP1 although not for many months to the public. It's been
> in alpha testing and available to a small group of testers now. The
> public needs Win RE yesterday.
>
> I don't see anything that would fall into the category of concrete
> evidence that you've offered. First of all you know it's not
> conincidence that over 300 OEM Named partners didn't ship an XP CD
> for six years, a Win 2K CD for years prior, and don't ship a Vista
> DVD. That's not by accident or serindepity.
>
> It's intriguing to me that MSFT is adamant that no one will discuss
> it. They absolutely have turned somersaults to avoid talking about
> it when asked,and I've done it many times. The setup and
> restore/backup personnel always insisted that OEMs were shipping Win
> RE on a partition or a disc, and it didn't take much time to
> research and discover that absolutely was not the case. They knew
> it wasn't, and finally in several months while they aren't shipping
> a DVD to everyone who purchased a pre-loaded Vista PC --they will at
> least deliver Win RE via SP1.
>
> You have the elliptical connections of an MVP to Redmond; you have a
> "handler" or a contact person. Put the question to them. See how
> much smoke and mirrors you'll evoke. Get them to tell you about the
> contracts generated out of Scott Di Valerio's office. I've been
> specific, and you've been full of generalities.
>
> You've been on this group a long time. I wonder how many value
> judgements you make a year that are as wrong as the perception that
> I "disklike" MSFT. That's just not the case. I get a lot out of
> their software and their websites, know a good number of them, have
> learned a lot from them and their sites and their blogs and continue
> to, and I have a pretty decent command of their resources that
> aren't purely developer oriented.
>
> If I dislkied MSFT, why would I spend as much time as I do helping
> their end users/customers on this group and others to fix Windows
> (and other software). That's a ludicrous assertion and you have
> nothing to back it up.
>
> However, I know the reality is, even with improved compressed backup
> in Vista, and slightly less functionality in backup in Win One Care,
> the availability of reliable programs like Acronis, and the wide
> array of external or portable hard drives available at lower
> prices.that the majority of people are simply still not going to
> backup. MSFT bloggers have pegged that number at as high as 75% of
> Windows users. I hope that number will go down in the next few
> years in some kind of herd immunity movement, but I'm a realist.
>
> I have always felt strongly that if someone allows MSFT and the OEM
> Named partners to make a huge profit, they owe their loyal customers
> a reliable way to recover instead of intentionally denying it as
> they have.
>
> Actually what you say is fluff. You "all can't simply check with an
> OEM." How would you? Phone up the salaried sales person in their
> small cube and ask them? Actually it would take some digging. Your
> blow off is pretty transparent. You don't want to know the answer
> so you make it up. I gave you the specific MO and I told you who is
> largely responsible for the decision at Redmond. Try using your
> MVPness to get to Scott Di Valerio's office. They will probably lie
> to you and deny it anyway.
>
> What drives business for the most part at Microsoft is
> simple--profit.
>
> I don't think you can provide me with the name of one OEM named
> partner who provides the DVD for Vista except Dell.
>
> "The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media" Whoops name one other
> OEM that provides a Vista DVD. I'm not talking about media.
> Recovery discs are media and most of them work as well as a hip hop
> CD/DVD to repair Vista or XP.
>
> I wasn't looking to dictate how OEMs run their businesses. I'm just
> in the position of trying to put Vista or other Windows OS's back
> together when they're broken, same as you are. I'd like to have
> the tools in MSFT's customer's hands to help them do this more
> successfully and effectively.
>
> It is a little bit curious, but not surprising why people who are
> developers, PMS and testers, and writer liasons on the
> setup/recovery/backup/SR teams kept insisting that Win RE was
> available via OEMs on media and pre-setup partitions (hidden and
> unhidden) because they were in a position to find out otherwise and
> most of them if not all of them knew that wasn't the case. A couple
> button pushes on their cells/ or their MSN Mess would have
> underscored that.
>
> You weren't the stunt double for Marty Short when he played the
> character of the lawyer Ed Grimley on Saturday Night Live by any
> chance were you?
>
> http://www.katfm.com/images/80s_nerds/Ed_Grimley.jpg
>
> What's stopping you from picking up your phone, calling Di Valerio's
> office, and asking the pointed questions about the contracts they do
> enforce besides Fan Boy fantasy?
>
> The fact that MSFT has denied the OS on CDs during Win 2K and Win XP
> and during Vista to millions of users is hardly "irrelevant." It's
> important, it's onpoint, and accounts for the multitude of posts
> here every day and every week that have the tell tale phrase "I
> don't have a Vista DVD" in them.
>
> CH
>
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:Od1VHEq6HHA.1148@TK2MSFTNGP/05.phx.gbl...
>> "...the fanboy component of you..."
>> Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value
>> to contribute.
>> Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to
>> insult others, we shall see.
>>
>> You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
>> It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your
>> dislike of Microsoft.
>> In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
>> The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that
>> option.
>> There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can
>> all easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
>> That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but seem
>> to ignore.
>>
>> "Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
>> Who says?
>> Some do, but why must they?
>> It would be better for their customers, but that is not always what
>> drives business.
>> An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
>> I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run
>> their businesses.
>>
>> "Many of them have shown me language..."
>> This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
>> Exactly What?
>> The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what
>> little you do provide.
>>
>> "You also conveniently neglect..."
>> Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
>> You never asked.
>>
>> "Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
>> Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
>> Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?
>>
>> Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and
>> even a little irrelevant politics.
>> Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need to
>> prop them up with such irrelevancies.
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>>I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you
>>>cannot show me any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have
>>>the option you always say they do. Many of them have shown me
>>>language in their contracts with MSFT that force this to happen.
>>>It's a topic no one wants to discuss at MSFT, and obviously not
>>>those of their MVPs who are fanboys. It's a lot like Rove and
>>>Gonzales defending whatever the Bush administration lies about.
>>>
>>> One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is
>>> Scott Di Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is
>>> closed off to the public by phone! Most people who know who they
>>> want to reach at the Redmond campus can easily do so. But not
>>> Scott. Scott makes Cheney look outgoing and personable.
>>> Appropriate for the OEM VP he has training as an accountant but no
>>> training as a system builder and no training in IT whatsoever.
>>>
>>> Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD
>>> at a price point.
>>>
>>> Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new
>>> box sale.
>>>
>>> You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here
>>> every day and night--the person with a significant Vista problem
>>> or problems, sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The
>>> hidden partition or recovery disk fails completely, and they don't
>>> have a DVD to use Win RE's Startup Repair or it's System Restore
>>> access among other options to try to fix Vista.
>>>
>>> That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of
>>> leaving their end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is
>>> shipping Win RE with every Vista SP1 when it finally is released
>>> to the public sometime around the first quarter of 2008.
>>>
>>> Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to
>>> Beta testers is readily available all over the web having leaked
>>> as usual to Torrents.
>>>
>>> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>>>
>>> http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx
>>>
>>> CH
>>
>

"Jupiter" --

I didn't ignore evidence; you didn't offer any. I don't know how clear I
can make this.

MSFT's OEM VP has orchestrated no shipping of Windows OS DVDs by OEMs in a
contract for years. His name is Scott Di Valerio. His objective and that
of his collegues have been greed. MSFT has shown next to no concern that
these customers can fix the OS when it won't boot or is significantly and
systemically broken. When you add to the fact that Vista shipped 6-8 months
before memory issues, stability and reliability and performance issues were
fixed, that compounds the wrong.


Why in the world do you think Dell, a company who alleged to the NYT that
they spent $100 million dollars during this year responding to customers,
opted to go to the expense to ship a Vista DVD? You think it was just
whimsy/serendipity?

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archi...0/17/3132.aspx
"Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
reinstallation CD when they need it. When ordering a new machine, all
consumers and corporate customers can opt for the Windows CD for around $10.
Additionally, since July 2004, most new PCs (Dell gaming systems all ship
with the OS CD)come pre-loaded with a disk partition that contains PC
Restore, an applcation that allows users to reinstall system software
quickly. See these instructions for how to use PC Restore to reinstall the
operating system and Dell factory-installed applications in about 10
minutes.

Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
Asia, things are unchanged—we've always shipped OS discs with systems
there."

A patch to remedy a major memory problem in Vista was released on 8/27/07.
Vista should not have been released until that problem and many others had
been resolved. SP1s fixes are far short of what remains unaddressed.

X86
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...2-3D1E1929C416

X64
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...C-DB70E22E1C1E

CH


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:%...
>A lot of words and still no proof.
> You CHOOSE to ignore the evidence I gave, how convenient for your agenda.
>
> More justifications of your insults, only you know of your need to insult
> instead of dealing with simply the facts.
>
> Post back when you can post without your need to insult.
> Otherwise your post will simply be to boost your own ego as no other
> purpose will be served.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> Able to deal with the issues? Confidence lacking in my views? LOL.
>> Which issues and views? I fix as many things here as you do and as well
>> when I have time. I try to help here and other groups when I think I
>> can. I wasn't insulting you personally, although your paranoia leaped to
>> the occasion, but while I know the MVP Code of Conduct to stay in good
>> standing (implied if not written) is to defend MSFT at all times, that to
>> me is not constructive criticism.
>>
>> I have defended them plenty when it's warranted. However, during XP and
>> during Vista, their efforts to suprress OEM computer makers from shipping
>> a DVD (and they are real) is not in the best interests of their
>> customers. They have finally absolved this sin by offering it in Vista
>> SP1 although not for many months to the public. It's been in alpha
>> testing and available to a small group of testers now. The public needs
>> Win RE yesterday.
>>
>> I don't see anything that would fall into the category of concrete
>> evidence that you've offered. First of all you know it's not
>> conincidence that over 300 OEM Named partners didn't ship an XP CD for
>> six years, a Win 2K CD for years prior, and don't ship a Vista DVD.
>> That's not by accident or serindepity.
>>
>> It's intriguing to me that MSFT is adamant that no one will discuss it.
>> They absolutely have turned somersaults to avoid talking about it when
>> asked,and I've done it many times. The setup and restore/backup
>> personnel always insisted that OEMs were shipping Win RE on a partition
>> or a disc, and it didn't take much time to research and discover that
>> absolutely was not the case. They knew it wasn't, and finally in several
>> months while they aren't shipping a DVD to everyone who purchased a
>> pre-loaded Vista PC --they will at least deliver Win RE via SP1.
>>
>> You have the elliptical connections of an MVP to Redmond; you have a
>> "handler" or a contact person. Put the question to them. See how much
>> smoke and mirrors you'll evoke. Get them to tell you about the contracts
>> generated out of Scott Di Valerio's office. I've been specific, and
>> you've been full of generalities.
>>
>> You've been on this group a long time. I wonder how many value
>> judgements you make a year that are as wrong as the perception that I
>> "disklike" MSFT. That's just not the case. I get a lot out of their
>> software and their websites, know a good number of them, have learned a
>> lot from them and their sites and their blogs and continue to, and I have
>> a pretty decent command of their resources that aren't purely developer
>> oriented.
>>
>> If I dislkied MSFT, why would I spend as much time as I do helping their
>> end users/customers on this group and others to fix Windows (and other
>> software). That's a ludicrous assertion and you have nothing to back it
>> up.
>>
>> However, I know the reality is, even with improved compressed backup in
>> Vista, and slightly less functionality in backup in Win One Care, the
>> availability of reliable programs like Acronis, and the wide array of
>> external or portable hard drives available at lower prices.that the
>> majority of people are simply still not going to backup. MSFT bloggers
>> have pegged that number at as high as 75% of Windows users. I hope that
>> number will go down in the next few years in some kind of herd immunity
>> movement, but I'm a realist.
>>
>> I have always felt strongly that if someone allows MSFT and the OEM Named
>> partners to make a huge profit, they owe their loyal customers a reliable
>> way to recover instead of intentionally denying it as they have.
>>
>> Actually what you say is fluff. You "all can't simply check with an
>> OEM." How would you? Phone up the salaried sales person in their small
>> cube and ask them? Actually it would take some digging. Your blow off
>> is pretty transparent. You don't want to know the answer so you make it
>> up. I gave you the specific MO and I told you who is largely responsible
>> for the decision at Redmond. Try using your MVPness to get to Scott Di
>> Valerio's office. They will probably lie to you and deny it anyway.
>>
>> What drives business for the most part at Microsoft is simple--profit.
>>
>> I don't think you can provide me with the name of one OEM named partner
>> who provides the DVD for Vista except Dell.
>>
>> "The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media" Whoops name one other OEM
>> that provides a Vista DVD. I'm not talking about media. Recovery discs
>> are media and most of them work as well as a hip hop CD/DVD to repair
>> Vista or XP.
>>
>> I wasn't looking to dictate how OEMs run their businesses. I'm just in
>> the position of trying to put Vista or other Windows OS's back together
>> when they're broken, same as you are. I'd like to have the tools in
>> MSFT's customer's hands to help them do this more successfully and
>> effectively.
>>
>> It is a little bit curious, but not surprising why people who are
>> developers, PMS and testers, and writer liasons on the
>> setup/recovery/backup/SR teams kept insisting that Win RE was available
>> via OEMs on media and pre-setup partitions (hidden and unhidden) because
>> they were in a position to find out otherwise and most of them if not all
>> of them knew that wasn't the case. A couple button pushes on their
>> cells/ or their MSN Mess would have underscored that.
>>
>> You weren't the stunt double for Marty Short when he played the character
>> of the lawyer Ed Grimley on Saturday Night Live by any chance were you?
>>
>> http://www.katfm.com/images/80s_nerds/Ed_Grimley.jpg
>>
>> What's stopping you from picking up your phone, calling Di Valerio's
>> office, and asking the pointed questions about the contracts they do
>> enforce besides Fan Boy fantasy?
>>
>> The fact that MSFT has denied the OS on CDs during Win 2K and Win XP and
>> during Vista to millions of users is hardly "irrelevant." It's
>> important, it's onpoint, and accounts for the multitude of posts here
>> every day and every week that have the tell tale phrase "I don't have a
>> Vista DVD" in them.
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
>> news:Od1VHEq6HHA.1148@TK2MSFTNGP/05.phx.gbl...
>>> "...the fanboy component of you..."
>>> Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value to
>>> contribute.
>>> Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to
>>> insult others, we shall see.
>>>
>>> You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
>>> It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your dislike
>>> of Microsoft.
>>> In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
>>> The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that option.
>>> There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can all
>>> easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
>>> That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but seem to
>>> ignore.
>>>
>>> "Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
>>> Who says?
>>> Some do, but why must they?
>>> It would be better for their customers, but that is not always what
>>> drives business.
>>> An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
>>> I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run their
>>> businesses.
>>>
>>> "Many of them have shown me language..."
>>> This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
>>> Exactly What?
>>> The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what little you
>>> do provide.
>>>
>>> "You also conveniently neglect..."
>>> Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
>>> You never asked.
>>>
>>> "Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
>>> Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
>>> Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?
>>>
>>> Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and even a
>>> little irrelevant politics.
>>> Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need to prop
>>> them up with such irrelevancies.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>>I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you cannot
>>>>show me any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs have the option
>>>>you always say they do. Many of them have shown me language in their
>>>>contracts with MSFT that force this to happen. It's a topic no one wants
>>>>to discuss at MSFT, and obviously not those of their MVPs who are
>>>>fanboys. It's a lot like Rove and Gonzales defending whatever the Bush
>>>>administration lies about.
>>>>
>>>> One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT is Scott
>>>> Di Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is closed off to
>>>> the public by phone! Most people who know who they want to reach at
>>>> the Redmond campus can easily do so. But not Scott. Scott makes
>>>> Cheney look outgoing and personable. Appropriate for the OEM VP he has
>>>> training as an accountant but no training as a system builder and no
>>>> training in IT whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>> Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD at a
>>>> price point.
>>>>
>>>> Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each new box
>>>> sale.
>>>>
>>>> You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see here
>>>> every day and night--the person with a significant Vista problem or
>>>> problems, sometimes no boot and sometimes they can boot. The hidden
>>>> partition or recovery disk fails completely, and they don't have a DVD
>>>> to use Win RE's Startup Repair or it's System Restore access among
>>>> other options to try to fix Vista.
>>>>
>>>> That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of leaving
>>>> their end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT is shipping Win
>>>> RE with every Vista SP1 when it finally is released to the public
>>>> sometime around the first quarter of 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to Beta
>>>> testers is readily available all over the web having leaked as usual to
>>>> Torrents.
>>>>
>>>> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx
>>>>
>>>> CH
>>>
>>
>

"you didn't offer any"
The fact some OEMs provide media is the proof.
Easily checked on websites or sometimes by calling.
Dell is a good example.

"MSFT's OEM VP has orchestrated no shipping..."
Dell and others provide media proving incorrect your statement "forced
by MSFT not to include a Vista DVD"
Dell demonstrates there is a choice.

As for Dell responding to customer demand, that is usually good when
business responds positively to customers.
However this is not really relevant as I never said dell should not or
could not.
I did say the OEMs have options and Dell is one of the better at
providing what the customer needs.
People need to contact the OEMs they plan to purchase and ask if media
is included.
If not, they should look elsewhere as there are other options.
Then contact the unsatisfactory OEM and tell them what was purchase
and from whom.
If enough do so, other OEMs will need to provide at least a media
option or risk losing customers.
As long as many customers have price as the major factor, computers
will probably continue to ship without.

On the other Microsoft Office is nearly as you describe, but even then
the OEMs have options.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:...
> "Jupiter" --
>
> I didn't ignore evidence; you didn't offer any. I don't know how
> clear I can make this.
>
> MSFT's OEM VP has orchestrated no shipping of Windows OS DVDs by
> OEMs in a contract for years. His name is Scott Di Valerio. His
> objective and that of his collegues have been greed. MSFT has
> shown next to no concern that these customers can fix the OS when it
> won't boot or is significantly and systemically broken. When you
> add to the fact that Vista shipped 6-8 months before memory issues,
> stability and reliability and performance issues were fixed, that
> compounds the wrong.
>
>
> Why in the world do you think Dell, a company who alleged to the NYT
> that they spent $100 million dollars during this year responding to
> customers, opted to go to the expense to ship a Vista DVD? You
> think it was just whimsy/serendipity?
>
> http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archi...0/17/3132.aspx
> "Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating
> system reinstallation CD when they need it. When ordering a new
> machine, all consumers and corporate customers can opt for the
> Windows CD for around $10. Additionally, since July 2004, most new
> PCs (Dell gaming systems all ship with the OS CD)come pre-loaded
> with a disk partition that contains PC Restore, an applcation that
> allows users to reinstall system software quickly. See these
> instructions for how to use PC Restore to reinstall the operating
> system and Dell factory-installed applications in about 10 minutes.
>
> Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell
> employees for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post.
> When I wrote this, the OS media was listed as an option in the
> configurator for $0. I mis-read the number, and for that mistake, I
> apologize. Also, though this been in the works for some time before
> now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer and small business
> customers, all systems will now ship with an operating system disc.
> This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In Asia,
> things are unchanged—we've always shipped OS discs with systems
> there."
>
> A patch to remedy a major memory problem in Vista was released on
> 8/27/07. Vista should not have been released until that problem and
> many others had been resolved. SP1s fixes are far short of what
> remains unaddressed.
>
> X86
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...2-3D1E1929C416
>
> X64
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...C-DB70E22E1C1E
>
> CH
>
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>>A lot of words and still no proof.
>> You CHOOSE to ignore the evidence I gave, how convenient for your
>> agenda.
>>
>> More justifications of your insults, only you know of your need to
>> insult instead of dealing with simply the facts.
>>
>> Post back when you can post without your need to insult.
>> Otherwise your post will simply be to boost your own ego as no
>> other purpose will be served.
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
>> news:%...
>>> Able to deal with the issues? Confidence lacking in my views?
>>> LOL. Which issues and views? I fix as many things here as you do
>>> and as well when I have time. I try to help here and other groups
>>> when I think I can. I wasn't insulting you personally, although
>>> your paranoia leaped to the occasion, but while I know the MVP
>>> Code of Conduct to stay in good standing (implied if not written)
>>> is to defend MSFT at all times, that to me is not constructive
>>> criticism.
>>>
>>> I have defended them plenty when it's warranted. However, during
>>> XP and during Vista, their efforts to suprress OEM computer makers
>>> from shipping a DVD (and they are real) is not in the best
>>> interests of their customers. They have finally absolved this sin
>>> by offering it in Vista SP1 although not for many months to the
>>> public. It's been in alpha testing and available to a small group
>>> of testers now. The public needs Win RE yesterday.
>>>
>>> I don't see anything that would fall into the category of concrete
>>> evidence that you've offered. First of all you know it's not
>>> conincidence that over 300 OEM Named partners didn't ship an XP CD
>>> for six years, a Win 2K CD for years prior, and don't ship a
>>> Vista DVD. That's not by accident or serindepity.
>>>
>>> It's intriguing to me that MSFT is adamant that no one will
>>> discuss it. They absolutely have turned somersaults to avoid
>>> talking about it when asked,and I've done it many times. The
>>> setup and restore/backup personnel always insisted that OEMs were
>>> shipping Win RE on a partition or a disc, and it didn't take much
>>> time to research and discover that absolutely was not the case.
>>> They knew it wasn't, and finally in several months while they
>>> aren't shipping a DVD to everyone who purchased a pre-loaded Vista
>>> PC --they will at least deliver Win RE via SP1.
>>>
>>> You have the elliptical connections of an MVP to Redmond; you have
>>> a "handler" or a contact person. Put the question to them. See
>>> how much smoke and mirrors you'll evoke. Get them to tell you
>>> about the contracts generated out of Scott Di Valerio's office.
>>> I've been specific, and you've been full of generalities.
>>>
>>> You've been on this group a long time. I wonder how many value
>>> judgements you make a year that are as wrong as the perception
>>> that I "disklike" MSFT. That's just not the case. I get a lot out
>>> of their software and their websites, know a good number of them,
>>> have learned a lot from them and their sites and their blogs and
>>> continue to, and I have a pretty decent command of their resources
>>> that aren't purely developer oriented.
>>>
>>> If I dislkied MSFT, why would I spend as much time as I do helping
>>> their end users/customers on this group and others to fix Windows
>>> (and other software). That's a ludicrous assertion and you have
>>> nothing to back it up.
>>>
>>> However, I know the reality is, even with improved compressed
>>> backup in Vista, and slightly less functionality in backup in Win
>>> One Care, the availability of reliable programs like Acronis, and
>>> the wide array of external or portable hard drives available at
>>> lower prices.that the majority of people are simply still not
>>> going to backup. MSFT bloggers have pegged that number at as high
>>> as 75% of Windows users. I hope that number will go down in the
>>> next few years in some kind of herd immunity movement, but I'm a
>>> realist.
>>>
>>> I have always felt strongly that if someone allows MSFT and the
>>> OEM Named partners to make a huge profit, they owe their loyal
>>> customers a reliable way to recover instead of intentionally
>>> denying it as they have.
>>>
>>> Actually what you say is fluff. You "all can't simply check with
>>> an OEM." How would you? Phone up the salaried sales person in
>>> their small cube and ask them? Actually it would take some
>>> digging. Your blow off is pretty transparent. You don't want to
>>> know the answer so you make it up. I gave you the specific MO and
>>> I told you who is largely responsible for the decision at Redmond.
>>> Try using your MVPness to get to Scott Di Valerio's office. They
>>> will probably lie to you and deny it anyway.
>>>
>>> What drives business for the most part at Microsoft is
>>> simple--profit.
>>>
>>> I don't think you can provide me with the name of one OEM named
>>> partner who provides the DVD for Vista except Dell.
>>>
>>> "The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media" Whoops name one other
>>> OEM that provides a Vista DVD. I'm not talking about media.
>>> Recovery discs are media and most of them work as well as a hip
>>> hop CD/DVD to repair Vista or XP.
>>>
>>> I wasn't looking to dictate how OEMs run their businesses. I'm
>>> just in the position of trying to put Vista or other Windows OS's
>>> back together when they're broken, same as you are. I'd like to
>>> have the tools in MSFT's customer's hands to help them do this
>>> more successfully and effectively.
>>>
>>> It is a little bit curious, but not surprising why people who are
>>> developers, PMS and testers, and writer liasons on the
>>> setup/recovery/backup/SR teams kept insisting that Win RE was
>>> available via OEMs on media and pre-setup partitions (hidden and
>>> unhidden) because they were in a position to find out otherwise
>>> and most of them if not all of them knew that wasn't the case. A
>>> couple button pushes on their cells/ or their MSN Mess would have
>>> underscored that.
>>>
>>> You weren't the stunt double for Marty Short when he played the
>>> character of the lawyer Ed Grimley on Saturday Night Live by any
>>> chance were you?
>>>
>>> http://www.katfm.com/images/80s_nerds/Ed_Grimley.jpg
>>>
>>> What's stopping you from picking up your phone, calling Di
>>> Valerio's office, and asking the pointed questions about the
>>> contracts they do enforce besides Fan Boy fantasy?
>>>
>>> The fact that MSFT has denied the OS on CDs during Win 2K and Win
>>> XP and during Vista to millions of users is hardly "irrelevant."
>>> It's important, it's onpoint, and accounts for the multitude of
>>> posts here every day and every week that have the tell tale phrase
>>> "I don't have a Vista DVD" in them.
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <> wrote in
>>> message news:Od1VHEq6HHA.1148@TK2MSFTNGP/05.phx.gbl...
>>>> "...the fanboy component of you..."
>>>> Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of
>>>> value to contribute.
>>>> Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need
>>>> to insult others, we shall see.
>>>>
>>>> You say a lot of words but you can not prove your point.
>>>> It is no more than a theory that you push probably because your
>>>> dislike of Microsoft.
>>>> In other words, it is your opinion and NOT a fact as you suggest.
>>>> The FACT Dell and other OEMs provide media proves there is that
>>>> option.
>>>> There is no need for me to post anything documenting what we can
>>>> all easily see simply by checking with an OEM.
>>>> That is the "substantive evidence" you already know exists but
>>>> seem to ignore.
>>>>
>>>> "Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering..."
>>>> Who says?
>>>> Some do, but why must they?
>>>> It would be better for their customers, but that is not always
>>>> what drives business.
>>>> An OEM not providing an option does NOTHING to prove they can't.
>>>> I wish they all did, but neither you or I dictate how they run
>>>> their businesses.
>>>>
>>>> "Many of them have shown me language..."
>>>> This is no more than hearsay unless you post a verifiable source.
>>>> Exactly What?
>>>> The details you do not provide tell as much or more than what
>>>> little you do provide.
>>>>
>>>> "You also conveniently neglect..."
>>>> Not at all, why you make such an assumption only you know.
>>>> You never asked.
>>>>
>>>> "Only Dell bucked MSFT..."
>>>> Dell was not forced, other OEMs have the same options.
>>>> Of course if you can show your source to prove otherwise?
>>>>
>>>> Typical of you avoiding the question while throwing insults and
>>>> even a little irrelevant politics.
>>>> Typical of those lacking confidence in their views that you need
>>>> to prop them up with such irrelevancies.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:...
>>>>>I know the fanboy component of you wants to say that but you
>>>>>cannot show me any of the substantive evidence that the OEMs
>>>>>have the option you always say they do. Many of them have shown
>>>>>me language in their contracts with MSFT that force this to
>>>>>happen. It's a topic no one wants to discuss at MSFT, and
>>>>>obviously not those of their MVPs who are fanboys. It's a lot
>>>>>like Rove and Gonzales defending whatever the Bush administration
>>>>>lies about.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the driving forces that short changes customers at MSFT
>>>>> is Scott Di Valerio OEM VP who is so paranoid that his office is
>>>>> closed off to the public by phone! Most people who know who
>>>>> they want to reach at the Redmond campus can easily do so. But
>>>>> not Scott. Scott makes Cheney look outgoing and personable.
>>>>> Appropriate for the OEM VP he has training as an accountant but
>>>>> no training as a system builder and no training in IT
>>>>> whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also if they did have that option they'd all be offering the DVD
>>>>> at a price point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only Dell bucked MSFT with Vista by shipping the DVD with each
>>>>> new box sale.
>>>>>
>>>>> You also conveniently neglect the messy ugly fact that we see
>>>>> here every day and night--the person with a significant Vista
>>>>> problem or problems, sometimes no boot and sometimes they can
>>>>> boot. The hidden partition or recovery disk fails completely,
>>>>> and they don't have a DVD to use Win RE's Startup Repair or it's
>>>>> System Restore access among other options to try to fix Vista.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's one reason after finally listening to the feedback of
>>>>> leaving their end users up a creek without a paddle, that MSFT
>>>>> is shipping Win RE with every Vista SP1 when it finally is
>>>>> released to the public sometime around the first quarter of
>>>>> 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vista SP1 in alpha/beta and soon to be released more widely to
>>>>> Beta testers is readily available all over the web having leaked
>>>>> as usual to Torrents.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...hitepaper.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> http://blogs.technet.com/windowsserv...ng-update.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> CH
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:59:19 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
<> wrote:

>"...the fanboy component of you..."
>Start with an insult, typical of you when you have nothing of value to
>contribute.
>Are you able to deal with the issues or are you driven by a need to
>insult others, we shall see.

When you going to start pretending Chad is "stalking" you?

You're nothing but a typical pompous MVP blowhard.