Will MS ever learn that the lost a lot of browser market share, because the MS websites and Addons are horrific?

Hello,
3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
I must admit that I had the hope that something changed on the MS
websites and the Addon handling in IE, but I became very disappointed.

Ask yourself MS, why a lot of users switch to Firefox, Opera, Chrome?
Speed and HTML/CSS? It's only my opinion, from an IE users, but IE is
faster than some other browser and apart from some stupid websites with
a filter for the IE, that not allow IE users to see the site, I know
only a few site that not works in IE 8.0. Therefore, what's the other
reasons why a lot of users use other browsers?
In my opinion one of the main reasons, and the reason why I use Fx as
my second browser, is the addon system and the MS websites for the IE.

Here are my bad experience:

a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
have the entries in the "Tools" menu.

b)I search for addons and use the link in the addon settings to
http://www.ieaddons.com
b 1)SignIn??? On most other MS sites I can login with my LiveID, but
okay I created a new account.
b 2)I try "Spellchecker", "Spell checker", "Spell",... no results.
b 3)I enter "Gestures", found a addon, and notice this addon contains
some bugs, I can't post an user review to inform other users.
b 4)I choose my language, German, and search for "Gestures" no results.
Apart from that I don't understand why there are TWO languages
selections, when the search find nothing for German it would be more
useful when the result include something like "No results, but there is
an english version"

c)When I found a plugin, each plugin ask me for an installation,
folders, whatever. I want click on the button, IE ask me for restart,
if this is "bigger" addon maybe I get an config dialog after a restart,
but no more. All addons should be in ONE subfolder, at the moment it's
nearly impossible to move all addons to a new/other PC. Another point
here is that there is no update function for addons.

d)This post here...
d 1) I asked in the MS technet forum, where is the place to make this
comment, the answer was here is the correct place. And I am sure this
is the wrong place or nobody from MS ever read this. Look on the site
http://www.ieaddons.com at the bottom is a link "Problems with
ieaddons.com", but you better shout in the forest, the result is the
same, nothing...
d 2) Search around in the IE 8.0 help, anyone find a place where he can
ask questions about addons?

My personal summary,
sorry MS but the addon system overall is horrific, this include the
addon handling in the IE and the MS websites for Addons, any other
browser company do this job much better, why is this impossible for MS?
Don't give me the answer "Wait for the next version".
The IE and MS have this problems since Version 5.5 and got never
tackled from MS.

Peter

Hi Peter,

a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
have the entries in the "Tools" menu.

NO Surprise. Read the note at the bottom of the Addons Manager.

The Addons Manager says that you may have to restart your browser for the
changes to take effect. Menus and Command Bar extensions are loaded at
startup hence the menu items are still visible until you close all open
iexplorer processes and restart IE (see the IEVirtual Store entries in the
Registry). COM Addons are disabled immediately when you toggle their status.

IESpell was the winner of the 2007 Addons contest. It is up to the software
vendors to list their products at ieaddons.com Any company would be
reluctant to promote third-party products without permission/consultation.
You have to register with IEAddons.com before you can post and promote your
Addons there. This would explain why you (and I) cannot login with your
German credentials and why you do not see any German vendors products.

Some members of the IE Team recently attended the second IE Addons
conference in LV (see the IE Blog). This is a good step forward to promote
standards for IE Addon Development. (Even Mozilla corp was a sponsor)

Connect.microsoft.com would have been my choice to make your post. It's the
only one stop shop where you can be sure it will receive the attention of
MSFT. It's a big company, you have to know which doors to rattle. Nobody
wants you to run around knocking on doors trying to find the right one. The
one stop connection portal is the way to go. (and efficient)

Yes. I too have had some problems with the IEAddons site. I think they have
restrictions from which countries you can submit from (this may have
something to do with the country domain of your Live Login). I will make
some enquiries on our behalf and post back on this thread.

It looks like IE9 will have a completely different chrome, so COM Addons may
become redundant within a year.(see IE Blog).

Personally I am of two minds. IE8 is so feature packed I have no need for
any Toolbar or BHO Addons, simple scripted Command bar extensions can
provide all of the additional functionality that I require. Less is More.

Everybody gives away their 'Free' addons. There is no incentive for a
publisher to invest in developing and testing solid Addons, on the contrary,
the freeware model is promoting adware and malware financed applications or
just plain crapware. (moral of the story, nothing is free, you pay for what
you get). Even G (the biggest and richest) gives out their 'Open Source'
products for free (NOT, you pay in other ways) and are of dubious quality.

There may be some movement towards Addons standards after February of next
year. <wink>

Kai Shultz is the German MVP. You will find him in the German IE NG.
(microsoft.public.de.internetexplorer). He is well known and admired for his
expertise and would be a good person to discuss your views with. (Actually
he made a recent private post about IE's share in the German Market) and may
be able promote your ideas with MSFT in Germany. Eric Lawerence is the man
at MS though. You can contact him at his site (enhanceie.com). He has also
posted some discussions there about IE Addons. (see also his blog -
IEInternals - http://blogs.msdn.com/ieinternals )

To say that IE is loosing market share is a generalization. It may be true
for the EU, but my local research is indecisive. I mostly see XP/IE in the
corporate market, maybe one in one hundred corporate users have another
browser installed on their company's machines. The majority of companies
have a policy to use IE as the main browser. This is not a problem for
secured networks where users are restricted and cannot download any
crapware. Its in the back office where you see the others. Problems and
incorrect perceptions arise because of the skills levels of their support
staff.

You must be up early to make this post. Did Santa wake you up? (I hear it is
snowing heavily there also)

Hope you like my rant. I will post back with information about non US logins
for IEAddons.com

Regards.



"Peter Flindt" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hello,
> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
> I must admit that I had the hope that something changed on the MS
> websites and the Addon handling in IE, but I became very disappointed.
>
> Ask yourself MS, why a lot of users switch to Firefox, Opera, Chrome?
> Speed and HTML/CSS? It's only my opinion, from an IE users, but IE is
> faster than some other browser and apart from some stupid websites with
> a filter for the IE, that not allow IE users to see the site, I know
> only a few site that not works in IE 8.0. Therefore, what's the other
> reasons why a lot of users use other browsers?
> In my opinion one of the main reasons, and the reason why I use Fx as
> my second browser, is the addon system and the MS websites for the IE.
>
> Here are my bad experience:
>
> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>
> b)I search for addons and use the link in the addon settings to
> http://www.ieaddons.com
> b 1)SignIn??? On most other MS sites I can login with my LiveID, but
> okay I created a new account.
> b 2)I try "Spellchecker", "Spell checker", "Spell",... no results.
> b 3)I enter "Gestures", found a addon, and notice this addon contains
> some bugs, I can't post an user review to inform other users.
> b 4)I choose my language, German, and search for "Gestures" no results.
> Apart from that I don't understand why there are TWO languages
> selections, when the search find nothing for German it would be more
> useful when the result include something like "No results, but there is
> an english version"
>
> c)When I found a plugin, each plugin ask me for an installation,
> folders, whatever. I want click on the button, IE ask me for restart,
> if this is "bigger" addon maybe I get an config dialog after a restart,
> but no more. All addons should be in ONE subfolder, at the moment it's
> nearly impossible to move all addons to a new/other PC. Another point
> here is that there is no update function for addons.
>
> d)This post here...
> d 1) I asked in the MS technet forum, where is the place to make this
> comment, the answer was here is the correct place. And I am sure this
> is the wrong place or nobody from MS ever read this. Look on the site
> http://www.ieaddons.com at the bottom is a link "Problems with
> ieaddons.com", but you better shout in the forest, the result is the
> same, nothing...
> d 2) Search around in the IE 8.0 help, anyone find a place where he can
> ask questions about addons?
>
> My personal summary,
> sorry MS but the addon system overall is horrific, this include the
> addon handling in the IE and the MS websites for Addons, any other
> browser company do this job much better, why is this impossible for MS?
> Don't give me the answer "Wait for the next version".
> The IE and MS have this problems since Version 5.5 and got never
> tackled from MS.
>
> Peter
>
>

rob^_^ wrote on 25.12.2009 in message
<> :
> Hi Peter,

> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.

> NO Surprise. Read the note at the bottom of the Addons Manager.

> The Addons Manager says that you may have to restart your browser for the
> changes to take effect. Menus and Command Bar extensions are loaded at
> startup hence the menu items are still visible until you close all open
> iexplorer processes and restart IE (see the IEVirtual Store entries in the
> Registry). COM Addons are disabled immediately when you toggle their status.

In this case it's buggy, 10 starts, 6 starts I see the old menu
entries, 4 times not.

> IESpell was the winner of the 2007 Addons contest. It is up to the software
> vendors to list their products at ieaddons.com Any company would be
> reluctant to promote third-party products without permission/consultation.

I not completly agree.
See it from an user point of view. Fx have a spell checker on the addon
site, no spell checker on the MS Addonsite => There is no spellchecker
for the IE. Overall I would say that only a few companies use the "new
IE Addonsite". I forget the URL for the "old" Addonsite (I mean it was
on MS marketplace), but there was much more addons on this side. There
must be a reason for this.

> ...
> It looks like IE9 will have a completely different chrome, so COM Addons may
> become redundant within a year.(see IE Blog).
> ...
I would really wonder if something will change, but never say never.

> To say that IE is loosing market share is a generalization. It may be true
> for the EU, but my local research is indecisive.
> ...
I mean the "free" market share, not the market share that the user must
use. E.g. home user with the free choice what browser they use.
(I not count the amount of users who never try another browser, because
IE is included in all windows versions, too)
And I don't think it's a EU problem that a lot of users stop using IE
because they miss something in it and it's to complicated to find
something, install it and keep it up-to-date.

> You must be up early to make this post. Did Santa wake you up? (I hear it is
> snowing heavily there also)

> Hope you like my rant. I will post back with information about non US logins
> for IEAddons.com

I tried different logins, choose US in the IE language seetings, and
choose US and English on the IEAddonsite not help.

> Regards.



> "Peter Flindt" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Hello,
>> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
>> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
>> I must admit that I had the hope that something changed on the MS
>> websites and the Addon handling in IE, but I became very disappointed.
>>
>> Ask yourself MS, why a lot of users switch to Firefox, Opera, Chrome?
>> Speed and HTML/CSS? It's only my opinion, from an IE users, but IE is
>> faster than some other browser and apart from some stupid websites with
>> a filter for the IE, that not allow IE users to see the site, I know
>> only a few site that not works in IE 8.0. Therefore, what's the other
>> reasons why a lot of users use other browsers?
>> In my opinion one of the main reasons, and the reason why I use Fx as
>> my second browser, is the addon system and the MS websites for the IE.
>>
>> Here are my bad experience:
>>
>> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
>> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>>
>> b)I search for addons and use the link in the addon settings to
>> http://www.ieaddons.com
>> b 1)SignIn??? On most other MS sites I can login with my LiveID, but
>> okay I created a new account.
>> b 2)I try "Spellchecker", "Spell checker", "Spell",... no results.
>> b 3)I enter "Gestures", found a addon, and notice this addon contains
>> some bugs, I can't post an user review to inform other users.
>> b 4)I choose my language, German, and search for "Gestures" no results.
>> Apart from that I don't understand why there are TWO languages
>> selections, when the search find nothing for German it would be more
>> useful when the result include something like "No results, but there is
>> an english version"
>>
>> c)When I found a plugin, each plugin ask me for an installation,
>> folders, whatever. I want click on the button, IE ask me for restart,
>> if this is "bigger" addon maybe I get an config dialog after a restart,
>> but no more. All addons should be in ONE subfolder, at the moment it's
>> nearly impossible to move all addons to a new/other PC. Another point
>> here is that there is no update function for addons.
>>
>> d)This post here...
>> d 1) I asked in the MS technet forum, where is the place to make this
>> comment, the answer was here is the correct place. And I am sure this
>> is the wrong place or nobody from MS ever read this. Look on the site
>> http://www.ieaddons.com at the bottom is a link "Problems with
>> ieaddons.com", but you better shout in the forest, the result is the
>> same, nothing...
>> d 2) Search around in the IE 8.0 help, anyone find a place where he can
>> ask questions about addons?
>>
>> My personal summary,
>> sorry MS but the addon system overall is horrific, this include the
>> addon handling in the IE and the MS websites for Addons, any other
>> browser company do this job much better, why is this impossible for MS?
>> Don't give me the answer "Wait for the next version".
>> The IE and MS have this problems since Version 5.5 and got never
>> tackled from MS.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>

Have you considered looking into the signal from brain to finger. :-)

--
Peter

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"Peter Flindt" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hello,
> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
> I must admit that I had the hope that something changed on the MS
> websites and the Addon handling in IE, but I became very disappointed.
>
> Ask yourself MS, why a lot of users switch to Firefox, Opera, Chrome?
> Speed and HTML/CSS? It's only my opinion, from an IE users, but IE is
> faster than some other browser and apart from some stupid websites with
> a filter for the IE, that not allow IE users to see the site, I know
> only a few site that not works in IE 8.0. Therefore, what's the other
> reasons why a lot of users use other browsers?
> In my opinion one of the main reasons, and the reason why I use Fx as
> my second browser, is the addon system and the MS websites for the IE.
>
> Here are my bad experience:
>
> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>
> b)I search for addons and use the link in the addon settings to
> http://www.ieaddons.com
> b 1)SignIn??? On most other MS sites I can login with my LiveID, but
> okay I created a new account.
> b 2)I try "Spellchecker", "Spell checker", "Spell",... no results.
> b 3)I enter "Gestures", found a addon, and notice this addon contains
> some bugs, I can't post an user review to inform other users.
> b 4)I choose my language, German, and search for "Gestures" no results.
> Apart from that I don't understand why there are TWO languages
> selections, when the search find nothing for German it would be more
> useful when the result include something like "No results, but there is
> an english version"
>
> c)When I found a plugin, each plugin ask me for an installation,
> folders, whatever. I want click on the button, IE ask me for restart,
> if this is "bigger" addon maybe I get an config dialog after a restart,
> but no more. All addons should be in ONE subfolder, at the moment it's
> nearly impossible to move all addons to a new/other PC. Another point
> here is that there is no update function for addons.
>
> d)This post here...
> d 1) I asked in the MS technet forum, where is the place to make this
> comment, the answer was here is the correct place. And I am sure this
> is the wrong place or nobody from MS ever read this. Look on the site
> http://www.ieaddons.com at the bottom is a link "Problems with
> ieaddons.com", but you better shout in the forest, the result is the
> same, nothing...
> d 2) Search around in the IE 8.0 help, anyone find a place where he can
> ask questions about addons?
>
> My personal summary,
> sorry MS but the addon system overall is horrific, this include the
> addon handling in the IE and the MS websites for Addons, any other
> browser company do this job much better, why is this impossible for MS?
> Don't give me the answer "Wait for the next version".
> The IE and MS have this problems since Version 5.5 and got never
> tackled from MS.
>
> Peter
>
>

IE7Pro Toolbar is not a Microsoft add-on, Peter. cf.
http://wiki.ie7pro.com/index.php/Main_Page

Peter Flindt wrote:
> Hello,
> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
> I must admit that I had the hope that something changed on the MS
> websites and the Addon handling in IE, but I became very disappointed.
>
> Ask yourself MS, why a lot of users switch to Firefox, Opera, Chrome?
> Speed and HTML/CSS? It's only my opinion, from an IE users, but IE is
> faster than some other browser and apart from some stupid websites with
> a filter for the IE, that not allow IE users to see the site, I know
> only a few site that not works in IE 8.0. Therefore, what's the other
> reasons why a lot of users use other browsers?
> In my opinion one of the main reasons, and the reason why I use Fx as
> my second browser, is the addon system and the MS websites for the IE.
>
> Here are my bad experience:
>
> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>
> b)I search for addons and use the link in the addon settings to
> http://www.ieaddons.com
> b 1)SignIn??? On most other MS sites I can login with my LiveID, but
> okay I created a new account.
> b 2)I try "Spellchecker", "Spell checker", "Spell",... no results.
> b 3)I enter "Gestures", found a addon, and notice this addon contains
> some bugs, I can't post an user review to inform other users.
> b 4)I choose my language, German, and search for "Gestures" no results.
> Apart from that I don't understand why there are TWO languages
> selections, when the search find nothing for German it would be more
> useful when the result include something like "No results, but there is
> an english version"
>
> c)When I found a plugin, each plugin ask me for an installation,
> folders, whatever. I want click on the button, IE ask me for restart,
> if this is "bigger" addon maybe I get an config dialog after a restart,
> but no more. All addons should be in ONE subfolder, at the moment it's
> nearly impossible to move all addons to a new/other PC. Another point
> here is that there is no update function for addons.
>
> d)This post here...
> d 1) I asked in the MS technet forum, where is the place to make this
> comment, the answer was here is the correct place. And I am sure this
> is the wrong place or nobody from MS ever read this. Look on the site
> http://www.ieaddons.com at the bottom is a link "Problems with
> ieaddons.com", but you better shout in the forest, the result is the
> same, nothing...
> d 2) Search around in the IE 8.0 help, anyone find a place where he can
> ask questions about addons?
>
> My personal summary,
> sorry MS but the addon system overall is horrific, this include the
> addon handling in the IE and the MS websites for Addons, any other
> browser company do this job much better, why is this impossible for MS?
> Don't give me the answer "Wait for the next version".
> The IE and MS have this problems since Version 5.5 and got never
> tackled from MS.
>
> Peter

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote on 25.12.2009 in message
<uRj$> :
> IE7Pro Toolbar is not a Microsoft add-on, Peter. cf.
> http://wiki.ie7pro.com/index.php/Main_Page

My post is about search addons on the MS site and install this plugins.
It's not about IE7pro.

Peter

Peter Flindt wrote:
> Hello,
> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.

<snip>

and

> Here are my bad experience:
>
> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.

You need to *uninstall* IE7Pro before you do anything else.

Daave wrote on 27.12.2009 in message
<> :
> Peter Flindt wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
>> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.

> <snip>

> and

>> Here are my bad experience:
>>
>> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
>> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.

> You need to *uninstall* IE7Pro before you do anything else.

strange "Disable" means to me disable, not active, not functional, not
visible, not..., any longer. I made the experience, that sometimes,
sometimes not, the IE show menu entries from disabled addins.
My thought was too it's a special IE7pro bug, but the same happens with
another addon too, when I disable it, it sometimes re-appear in the
menus.

Peter

Your not disabling all of the components of the Addon Peter. Use the Addons
manager to sort your Addons by Publisher and select all the Addons for that
publisher and disable them all.

You will see in your Addons list that many Toolbar Addons also have a BHO
component. (I call them satellite BHOs), Toolbars do not need a satellite
BHO to perform. This is non-standard architecture for a Toolbar addon.
IE7Pro is different again from your standard addon. The Satellite BHO to its
toolbar has its own sub-modules which are called by the LoadModule API and
are out of control of IE's Addons management. So if you disable only the
toolbar component you will still be loading its satellite BHO which in turn
will be creating and adding the Tools menu items.

One issue I have seen arising is when an Addon publisher neglects to include
their copyright and company details in the compiled PE components.
When you disable a toolbar from the View>Toolbars menu (or click the
toolbars close button) your are also prompted to disable similar addons that
are made/distributed by the same Publisher, if this information is missing
from the PE's then the IE Addons manager cannot make the connection between
an Addons toolbars and satellite BHO components. Have a look at your Piclens
addons if you have it installed. (Jeff may see this post).

You are way off topic. I suggest you take up your issues with the publishers
of IE7Pro. They chose to design their Addon the way they did. They have had
ample opportunity to update their Addon for IE8 but have chosen not to. (It
may be that someone else has trademarked IE8Pro to kuzump them)

Like I said. Actions are being made to improve the situation and introduce
an understanding of Addon development. Like any Standard though (including
the w3c web standards) non-compliance is not punishable by death.(yet). So
its still buyer (opps youre not buying this free software) beware of what
you download.

Glossary - PE=Program Executables

Regards.

"Peter Flindt" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Daave wrote on 27.12.2009 in message
> <> :
>> Peter Flindt wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this great
>>> project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon replacements.
>
>> <snip>
>
>> and
>
>>> Here are my bad experience:
>>>
>>> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
>>> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>
>> You need to *uninstall* IE7Pro before you do anything else.
>
> strange "Disable" means to me disable, not active, not functional, not
> visible, not..., any longer. I made the experience, that sometimes,
> sometimes not, the IE show menu entries from disabled addins.
> My thought was too it's a special IE7pro bug, but the same happens with
> another addon too, when I disable it, it sometimes re-appear in the
> menus.
>
> Peter
>
>
>

Peter Flindt wrote:
> Daave wrote on 27.12.2009 in message
> <> :
>> Peter Flindt wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 3 days ago I decided to stop using IE7pro, because I think this
>>> great project is dead. Therefore I try to search for addon
>>> replacements.
>
>> <snip>
>
>> and
>
>>> Here are my bad experience:
>>>
>>> a)I disable all IE7pro addons in the IE settings, surprise, I still
>>> have the entries in the "Tools" menu.
>
>> You need to *uninstall* IE7Pro before you do anything else.
>
> strange "Disable" means to me disable, not active, not functional, not
> visible, not..., any longer.

Regardless, disabling is not the same thing as uninstalling. Just ask
anyone who has "disabled" McAfee! There are still a number of active
components that run and interfere -- even if they are not visible to
you -- with the OS and/or other programs.

Your decision was to stop using IE7Pro. Therefore, it needs to be
unisntalled. If at some point in the future you wish to reinstall this
program, that would always be an option. Or if there is ever an IE8Pro
or similar program, that would be another option.

Or perhaps you might find that the Maxthon shell for IE is more to your
liking:

http://www.maxthon.com/

To sum up, if you no longer wish to use IE7Pro -- and, especially if you
want to start using Microsoft IE8 add-ons from this page:

http://www.ieaddons.com/en/

.... you nust uninstall IE7Pro!