Need to understand permissions and ownership

I am completely lost on trying to understand the process of accessing my
folders and files on vista.
I am the only user and have only one administrator account with my name.
There are also some other folders such as:
all users, default, default user and public in my users folder in the c
drive.
What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files
on my computer.
How does one go about this?
Where do you start?
Do I begin with my own named folder, the c drive, the users folder on
the c drive???
What do I do?
When choosing whether to select ownership, should I be selecting the
administrator option or the users option from the list? Both include my
named account.
I am so incredibly confused with this. XP was never like this.
I realize that this is probably too complicated to explain in a
response, so is there anywhere that I can read that explains it clearly?
The vista help files are so fragmented and confusing that they are
useless. I don't even know what to look for in the index.
Is there some web site or book that will help me to understand this
bizarre feature in vista?
Is it too much to ask that I can access files on my own computer without
being denied?
Thanks a lot for any advice.

Luis Ortega wrote:

> I am completely lost on trying to understand the process of accessing my
> folders and files on vista.
> I am the only user and have only one administrator account with my name.
> There are also some other folders such as:
> all users, default, default user and public in my users folder in the c
> drive.
> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files
> on my computer.
> How does one go about this?
> Where do you start?
> Do I begin with my own named folder, the c drive, the users folder on
> the c drive???
> What do I do?
> When choosing whether to select ownership, should I be selecting the
> administrator option or the users option from the list? Both include my
> named account.
> I am so incredibly confused with this. XP was never like this.
> I realize that this is probably too complicated to explain in a
> response, so is there anywhere that I can read that explains it clearly?
> The vista help files are so fragmented and confusing that they are
> useless. I don't even know what to look for in the index.
> Is there some web site or book that will help me to understand this
> bizarre feature in vista?
> Is it too much to ask that I can access files on my own computer without
> being denied?
> Thanks a lot for any advice.

You do have access to everything on your computer. Some items are in
protected space and require elevation. You *don't* want to blindly take
ownership of everything and if your Vista install is healthy, you never
need to do this. You would need to tell me why you feel you need to take
ownership in order for me to give you more focused advice.

In the meantime, below is an explanation of what you see when you examine
your computer's file hierarchy. Also, if you are a book person, you might
like "Windows Vista - The Missing Manual" by David Pogue. There are two
versions; one is shorter than the other. Mr. Pogue writes intelligently and
with humor so his books aren't the typical dry-as-dust technical manuals
that would put anyone off.
*****
Vista, like XP, is a multi-user operating system, no matter if only one
person is using it. In all multi-user operating systems - NT, Win2k, XP,
Vista, Unix, Linux, Mac OSX - there is the one built-in account that is
"god" on the system. In Windows terminology, that is "Administrator". In
the *nix world, it is "root". This is a necessary account and is not
normally used in everyday work. You cannot delete the built-in
Administrator account nor would you ever want to. In Vista, Mac OS X, and
some Linux distros, the built-in Administrator is disabled by default. In
Vista, even though you may be logged into an account with administrative
privileges, you still need to elevate to "superuser" in order to accomplish
some tasks. This is a security feature. Also in Vista, while you can work
from a user account with administrative privileges, it is safer not to. You
should be working from a Standard User account instead. Because the
built-in Administrator account is disabled, it is wise to create one or two
extra user accounts with administrative privileges. With luck, you'll never
need to log into them.

My Computer (XP) and Computer (Vista) - represents your entire computer,
showing drives and directories on hard drives. Shared Folders (XP) and the
Public directory (Vista) are folders where you can put files you wish to
share with other users on the system. You don't need to use these folders
if you don't want to, but leave them alone!

Documents and Settings (XP only) - The "container" for all user settings.
Each user will have [username] My Documents, My Music, My Videos, My
Pictures.

In Vista, the Documents and Settings directory has been replaced with the
Users directory - just like in the rest of the grownup operating systems
(Unix, Linux, Mac OS X). You will still see Documents and Settings in
Vista, but it is a virtual directory only, there just to be
backwards-compatible with older software that expects it to exist. So if
you click on it, you will get "access denied". You can't "take ownership"
of a virtual directory nor would you ever want/need to. Under Vista's Users
directory you will see home directories (with subdirectories like
Documents, Pictures, Music, etc.) for all the users in the system.

Administrator - Built-in account - Leave alone! Do not use! Do not worry
about it! You won't see this in Vista (see explanation above). In XP, the
built-in Administrator account is only visible in Documents and Settings if
you have XP Pro/Media Center. In XP Home, it can only be accessed in Safe
Mode.

All Users - Section where items common to all users go. You have to "Show
Hidden Files and Folders" (not recommended) in order to see the All Users
directory in Vista, but it is a virtual directory and therefore not
accessible.

Default User (XP) and Default (Vista) - This is the template from which new
user accounts are made. You will never put anything in any of those folders
but they are needed to create new users. In Linux we use "skel" ("skeleton"
- get it?). In Windows, the less-colorful term "Default User/Default" is
used. Leave it alone! As with All Users, you need to "Show Hidden Files and
Folders" in Vista to see Default. You will also see Default User, but like
All Users it is virtual only and therefore not accessible.

Your user account and other user accounts that *you've* created are in the
Users directory. Sometimes there will be an Owner account, or something
like "HP Administrator". This is the generic user created by the OEM
("Original Equipment Manufacturer; i.e., Dell, HP, Sony, etc.) when
installing the operating system. After all, the OEM doesn't know who is
going to buy the computer. If you aren't using this OEM user account, you
can delete it from the User Accounts applet in Control Panel. It is not the
same account as "Administrator".

You will also see the Windows directory and the Program Files directory. If
you "Show Hidden Files and Folders" and also uncheck "Hide protected
operating system files" in Vista, you'll see a lot of other directories,
too. The ones with the "shortcut arrows" are virtual directories. Again,
the virtualization is there for backwards-compatibility with older
software.
*****
I hope the above explanation has helped you understand the file structure of
Vista a little better.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

"Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
news:LtLIk.10862$2...

> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files on
> my computer.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...30(VS.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx

Malke wrote:
> Luis Ortega wrote:
>
>> I am completely lost on trying to understand the process of accessing my
>> folders and files on vista.
>> I am the only user and have only one administrator account with my name.
>> There are also some other folders such as:
>> all users, default, default user and public in my users folder in the c
>> drive.
>> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files
>> on my computer.
>> How does one go about this?
>> Where do you start?
>> Do I begin with my own named folder, the c drive, the users folder on
>> the c drive???
>> What do I do?
>> When choosing whether to select ownership, should I be selecting the
>> administrator option or the users option from the list? Both include my
>> named account.
>> I am so incredibly confused with this. XP was never like this.
>> I realize that this is probably too complicated to explain in a
>> response, so is there anywhere that I can read that explains it clearly?
>> The vista help files are so fragmented and confusing that they are
>> useless. I don't even know what to look for in the index.
>> Is there some web site or book that will help me to understand this
>> bizarre feature in vista?
>> Is it too much to ask that I can access files on my own computer without
>> being denied?
>> Thanks a lot for any advice.
>
> You do have access to everything on your computer. Some items are in
> protected space and require elevation. You *don't* want to blindly take
> ownership of everything and if your Vista install is healthy, you never
> need to do this. You would need to tell me why you feel you need to take
> ownership in order for me to give you more focused advice.
>
> In the meantime, below is an explanation of what you see when you examine
> your computer's file hierarchy. Also, if you are a book person, you might
> like "Windows Vista - The Missing Manual" by David Pogue. There are two
> versions; one is shorter than the other. Mr. Pogue writes intelligently and
> with humor so his books aren't the typical dry-as-dust technical manuals
> that would put anyone off.
> *****
> Vista, like XP, is a multi-user operating system, no matter if only one
> person is using it. In all multi-user operating systems - NT, Win2k, XP,
> Vista, Unix, Linux, Mac OSX - there is the one built-in account that is
> "god" on the system. In Windows terminology, that is "Administrator". In
> the *nix world, it is "root". This is a necessary account and is not
> normally used in everyday work. You cannot delete the built-in
> Administrator account nor would you ever want to. In Vista, Mac OS X, and
> some Linux distros, the built-in Administrator is disabled by default. In
> Vista, even though you may be logged into an account with administrative
> privileges, you still need to elevate to "superuser" in order to accomplish
> some tasks. This is a security feature. Also in Vista, while you can work
> from a user account with administrative privileges, it is safer not to. You
> should be working from a Standard User account instead. Because the
> built-in Administrator account is disabled, it is wise to create one or two
> extra user accounts with administrative privileges. With luck, you'll never
> need to log into them.
>
> My Computer (XP) and Computer (Vista) - represents your entire computer,
> showing drives and directories on hard drives. Shared Folders (XP) and the
> Public directory (Vista) are folders where you can put files you wish to
> share with other users on the system. You don't need to use these folders
> if you don't want to, but leave them alone!
>
> Documents and Settings (XP only) - The "container" for all user settings.
> Each user will have [username] My Documents, My Music, My Videos, My
> Pictures.
>
> In Vista, the Documents and Settings directory has been replaced with the
> Users directory - just like in the rest of the grownup operating systems
> (Unix, Linux, Mac OS X). You will still see Documents and Settings in
> Vista, but it is a virtual directory only, there just to be
> backwards-compatible with older software that expects it to exist. So if
> you click on it, you will get "access denied". You can't "take ownership"
> of a virtual directory nor would you ever want/need to. Under Vista's Users
> directory you will see home directories (with subdirectories like
> Documents, Pictures, Music, etc.) for all the users in the system.
>
> Administrator - Built-in account - Leave alone! Do not use! Do not worry
> about it! You won't see this in Vista (see explanation above). In XP, the
> built-in Administrator account is only visible in Documents and Settings if
> you have XP Pro/Media Center. In XP Home, it can only be accessed in Safe
> Mode.
>
> All Users - Section where items common to all users go. You have to "Show
> Hidden Files and Folders" (not recommended) in order to see the All Users
> directory in Vista, but it is a virtual directory and therefore not
> accessible.
>
> Default User (XP) and Default (Vista) - This is the template from which new
> user accounts are made. You will never put anything in any of those folders
> but they are needed to create new users. In Linux we use "skel" ("skeleton"
> - get it?). In Windows, the less-colorful term "Default User/Default" is
> used. Leave it alone! As with All Users, you need to "Show Hidden Files and
> Folders" in Vista to see Default. You will also see Default User, but like
> All Users it is virtual only and therefore not accessible.
>
> Your user account and other user accounts that *you've* created are in the
> Users directory. Sometimes there will be an Owner account, or something
> like "HP Administrator". This is the generic user created by the OEM
> ("Original Equipment Manufacturer; i.e., Dell, HP, Sony, etc.) when
> installing the operating system. After all, the OEM doesn't know who is
> going to buy the computer. If you aren't using this OEM user account, you
> can delete it from the User Accounts applet in Control Panel. It is not the
> same account as "Administrator".
>
> You will also see the Windows directory and the Program Files directory. If
> you "Show Hidden Files and Folders" and also uncheck "Hide protected
> operating system files" in Vista, you'll see a lot of other directories,
> too. The ones with the "shortcut arrows" are virtual directories. Again,
> the virtualization is there for backwards-compatibility with older
> software.
> *****
> I hope the above explanation has helped you understand the file structure of
> Vista a little better.
>
> Malke

Thanks a lot for your explanation.
Can you please explain why I wouldn't want to blindly take over
ownership of everything?
Does this corrupt the system? Does it open it up to greater security
threats?
As for why, there is no real reason other than I am used to having
control over my computer and don't like it when the OS tells me that
access is denied.
If I have selected something like the c drive and tried to get ownership
of it, is that bad?
I worry about having done something wrong now.
Is there any way to correct the ownerships/permissions if I have done
something bad?
I did make a restore point before starting to foll around with the
ownerships. Should I revert to that?
If that reverts it back to the original state, what sort of
ownership/permissions should I aim to set?

Mr. Arnold wrote:
>
> "Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
> news:LtLIk.10862$2...
>
>> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and
>> files on my computer.
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...30(VS.85).aspx
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx

Thank you, but I had no idea what it all means. I am too new with vista.

Luis Ortega wrote:

> Thanks a lot for your explanation.
> Can you please explain why I wouldn't want to blindly take over
> ownership of everything?

Because there is no need. Unless you are trying to share files in a
protected area such as Program Files (not recommended under *any* operating
system), you would just leave well enough alone.

> Does this corrupt the system? Does it open it up to greater security
> threats?

Corrupt? Not in the technical sense. Make insecure? Most definitely,
although the extent of the vulnerability would depend on circumstances.

> As for why, there is no real reason other than I am used to having
> control over my computer and don't like it when the OS tells me that
> access is denied.

Did you actually read what I took a fair amount of time to write you? If you
are getting "access denied" it is probably because you are trying to access
a virtual location. This is impossible to do and has nothing to do with
ownership.

> If I have selected something like the c drive and tried to get ownership
> of it, is that bad?

Yes, it is a security vulnerability to share an entire drive and normally it
is completely unnecessary. Again, state what you are trying to do. If you
are just playing around and complaining, then I'm done. If you are trying
to share something on the C: drive with another computer, then I'm happy to
tell you how to do this.

> I worry about having done something wrong now.
> Is there any way to correct the ownerships/permissions if I have done
> something bad?
> I did make a restore point before starting to foll around with the
> ownerships. Should I revert to that?
> If that reverts it back to the original state, what sort of
> ownership/permissions should I aim to set?

In other posts, you have stated that you are completely new to Vista. If I
were you, I'd spend some quality time really learning about the operating
system before tinkering with it. Or buy yourself an external hard drive and
Acronis True Image and image your perfectly working system. Then tinker to
your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that you can restore your Vista
install in a few minutes. Sometimes the best way to learn how things work
is to take them apart and break them. Knowing you can easily get back up
and running frees you to do this.

Yes, if you've messed around with permissions for no good reason doing a
System Restore to before that time would probably be a good idea. And once
again, unless you are trying to share files/folders over a Local Area
Network or take ownership of files you've imported into your system from
another operating system (eg., old user files from an XP system) there is
absolutely no reason to futz about with ownership and/or permissions on a
single-user system.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
FAQ - http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke wrote:
> Luis Ortega wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot for your explanation.
>> Can you please explain why I wouldn't want to blindly take over
>> ownership of everything?
>
> Because there is no need. Unless you are trying to share files in a
> protected area such as Program Files (not recommended under *any* operating
> system), you would just leave well enough alone.
>
>> Does this corrupt the system? Does it open it up to greater security
>> threats?
>
> Corrupt? Not in the technical sense. Make insecure? Most definitely,
> although the extent of the vulnerability would depend on circumstances.
>
>> As for why, there is no real reason other than I am used to having
>> control over my computer and don't like it when the OS tells me that
>> access is denied.
>
> Did you actually read what I took a fair amount of time to write you? If you
> are getting "access denied" it is probably because you are trying to access
> a virtual location. This is impossible to do and has nothing to do with
> ownership.
>
>> If I have selected something like the c drive and tried to get ownership
>> of it, is that bad?
>
> Yes, it is a security vulnerability to share an entire drive and normally it
> is completely unnecessary. Again, state what you are trying to do. If you
> are just playing around and complaining, then I'm done. If you are trying
> to share something on the C: drive with another computer, then I'm happy to
> tell you how to do this.
>
>> I worry about having done something wrong now.
>> Is there any way to correct the ownerships/permissions if I have done
>> something bad?
>> I did make a restore point before starting to foll around with the
>> ownerships. Should I revert to that?
>> If that reverts it back to the original state, what sort of
>> ownership/permissions should I aim to set?
>
> In other posts, you have stated that you are completely new to Vista. If I
> were you, I'd spend some quality time really learning about the operating
> system before tinkering with it. Or buy yourself an external hard drive and
> Acronis True Image and image your perfectly working system. Then tinker to
> your heart's content, safe in the knowledge that you can restore your Vista
> install in a few minutes. Sometimes the best way to learn how things work
> is to take them apart and break them. Knowing you can easily get back up
> and running frees you to do this.
>
> Yes, if you've messed around with permissions for no good reason doing a
> System Restore to before that time would probably be a good idea. And once
> again, unless you are trying to share files/folders over a Local Area
> Network or take ownership of files you've imported into your system from
> another operating system (eg., old user files from an XP system) there is
> absolutely no reason to futz about with ownership and/or permissions on a
> single-user system.
>
> Malke

Thanks again.
I tried to do some system restores but it said that it encountered a
problem and did not make any changes, so I am stuck with whatever I have
now.
I don't know if they failed because of something I did by changing
ownerships or permissions or if there is some other reason. Whatever it
is, it won't accept any of my restore points.

I know that I changed ownership on the c drive and also tried to change
ownership of the users folder to my own named account.

I understand about the virtual folders and am not trying to access those.

This is a single user system but it is on a wireless broadband
connection to the internet. I do not need to share files with another
computer but my daughter may try to use the bluetooth feature to connect
to an ipod or something.
I am primarily worried about making the system vulnerable to attacks
from the internet by having changed ownerships or permissions. I am not
concerned about intrusions from any local networks or unauthorized
persons getting into the system. It is just our home computer.

Is there any way to change the c drive back to anything more secure?
Should I try to delete or remove permissions from the authenticated
users from the lists of who has permissions and just leave system,
administrators and users on the lists?
Should I consider reinstalling vista again?

my Vista home basic 32 bit SP1
offers many Restore points in System restore
including points older then 5 days
sometimes 1rst try don't work then I try an other
--
lucky me I guess


"Luis Ortega" wrote:

> Mr. Arnold wrote:
> >
> > "Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
> > news:LtLIk.10862$2...
> >
> >> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and
> >> files on my computer.
> >
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...30(VS.85).aspx
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx
>
> Thank you, but I had no idea what it all means. I am too new with vista.
>

"Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
news:y0PIk.1098$2...
> Mr. Arnold wrote:
>>
>> "Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
>> news:LtLIk.10862$2...
>>
>>> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files
>>> on my computer.
>>
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...30(VS.85).aspx
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa382503.aspx
>
> Thank you, but I had no idea what it all means. I am too new with vista.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows...rce_Protection

It means that WRP with the TrustedInstaller account will prevent you from
taking ownership of the entire HD where the Vista O/S resides. It means that
some folders and files are protected, from even the user/admin, and that you
cannot take ownership.

You could do it on XP and all previous versions of the NT based O/S(s), but
you cannot take ownership of the entire drive that Vista resides on.

"Luis Ortega" <> wrote in message
news:LtLIk.10862$2...
>I am completely lost on trying to understand the process of accessing my
>folders and files on vista.
> I am the only user and have only one administrator account with my name.
> There are also some other folders such as:
> all users, default, default user and public in my users folder in the c
> drive.

All Users is the central profile that holds items that every user will see.

Default is basically a template used for creating new user folders, and
shouldn't be deleted.

Default User is likely the account that came with your system from the
factory. You created a new account and don't use it. That one you can
delete after you establish that there's nothing in it that you want to keep.

Public is for publicly accessible files.


> What I want to do is simply have access to all of the folders and files on
> my computer.

If you're in an administrator account, you do.

> How does one go about this?
> Where do you start?

Log in with an admin account.

> Do I begin with my own named folder, the c drive, the users folder on the
> c drive???
> What do I do?

Just log in with an admin-level account.

> When choosing whether to select ownership, should I be selecting the
> administrator option or the users option from the list? Both include my
> named account.
> I am so incredibly confused with this. XP was never like this.
> I realize that this is probably too complicated to explain in a response,
> so is there anywhere that I can read that explains it clearly?
> The vista help files are so fragmented and confusing that they are
> useless. I don't even know what to look for in the index.
> Is there some web site or book that will help me to understand this
> bizarre feature in vista?
> Is it too much to ask that I can access files on my own computer without
> being denied?

What files exactly do you think you don't have access to?


> Thanks a lot for any advice.

If you have an admin account, you already have access to all files and you
don't need to adjust permissions. You might *think* that there are some
folders you can't access, but that's because for the most part - they aren't
folders.

There are several items that appear to be folders such as My Documents and
My Pictureds that turn out to be there for backwards compatibility
purposes - and they aren't folders. If you try to open them, you will get
"access denied". But they don't exist as folders, they are called
"junctions".

Here's an article on the topic:

http://www.realtime-vista.com/genera...uments_and.htm

Finally, there are some system folders, such as System Volume Information,
that are protected system folders and you have to do a little more with
attributes to get into them.

HTH
-pk