Not understanding something about DNS

If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it returns the
IP address 63.85.17.161

If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
website of the company that created our website.

Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the account for
the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS records, and there is
an A-record for our domain name pointing to 64.71.33.101

And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not bring
up our site.

How does all of this even work, DNS wise?

Hi John,

It's not DNS, it's the web server.

If you're using a shared-hosting platform you'll be sharing that IP
Address with any number of other customers. The web server takes inbound
request and filters it to specific sites based on the name you use. It's
referred to as Host Headers.

When you use the IP Address alone you end up at the web site that
doesn't have a name associated with it, there will only be one of those
on that server for that IP address, so it makes sense you end up at the
hosts site.

Otherwise each website would need a separate IP address, which can be
very wasteful and, in some instances, costly.

HTH

Chris

"JohnB" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it returns the
> IP address 63.85.17.161
>
> If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
> website of the company that created our website.
>
> Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the account
> for the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS records, and
> there is an A-record for our domain name pointing to 64.71.33.101
>
> And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not
> bring up our site.
>
> How does all of this even work, DNS wise?
>
>
>


As Chris said, it's based on host headers. I used nslookup to check out the
name and IP address, and got the following:

===
> blackdiamondranch.com
Server: london.nwtraders.msft
Address: 192.168.1.200

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: blackdiamondranch.com
Address: 63.85.17.161

> www.blackdiamondranch.com
Server: london.nwtraders.msft
Address: 192.168.1.200

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: blackdiamondranch.com
Address: 63.85.17.161
Aliases: www.blackdiamondranch.com
===

So I'm not sure what the 64.71.33.101 comes in play. I put that in to check
if it has a reverse, and it comes back empty. I went to your website, and I
must say that Black Diamond looks like a fabulous country club. I forwarded
the link to my wife, who is the assistnt controller for a country club in
our area. I'm sure she and others at the club will enjoy it.

Ace

Ok, I'm somewhat familiar with host headers, from studies and a home lab
working with IIS.

What started all this was I asked a question of the company that hosts our
site. I had asked something about viewing website statiscitcs. Their
explanation why I couldn't view them was; the domain name isn't registered
with them, it's registered with Network Solutions. And the A-record for our
website points to 63.85.17.161

I understand that host headers allows one IP address to point to many
websites, on the web server. But what's confusing to me is, that A-record
doesn't point to the server that hosts our site. It points to the company
that developed our site.

So, this company that hosts our site, that I had asked the original quesiton
of... is suggesting that we change the DNS records on our name servers to
point to their webserver, as such:
www.blackdiamondranch.com IN A 64.71.33.101

I really am not interested in the website statistics or, in changing the
A-record. I just find it hard to understand how our A-record can be
pointing to 63.85.17.161 and requests ending up getting resolved to
64.71.33.101

I hope that makes sense!



"Chris Dent" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
> Hi John,
>
> It's not DNS, it's the web server.
>
> If you're using a shared-hosting platform you'll be sharing that IP
> Address with any number of other customers. The web server takes inbound
> request and filters it to specific sites based on the name you use. It's
> referred to as Host Headers.
>
> When you use the IP Address alone you end up at the web site that doesn't
> have a name associated with it, there will only be one of those on that
> server for that IP address, so it makes sense you end up at the hosts
> site.
>
> Otherwise each website would need a separate IP address, which can be very
> wasteful and, in some instances, costly.
>
> HTH
>
> Chris
>

See reply to Chris' post.

Thanks, on the club. Yes, for this part of the country(FL), which is
totally flat, having a course with that much elevation change is also
considered fabulous. It was all built in and around an old limestone
quarry.


"Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "JohnB" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it returns
>> the IP address 63.85.17.161
>>
>> If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
>> website of the company that created our website.
>>
>> Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the account
>> for the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS records, and
>> there is an A-record for our domain name pointing to 64.71.33.101
>>
>> And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not
>> bring up our site.
>>
>> How does all of this even work, DNS wise?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> As Chris said, it's based on host headers. I used nslookup to check out
> the name and IP address, and got the following:
>
> ===
>> blackdiamondranch.com
> Server: london.nwtraders.msft
> Address: 192.168.1.200
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> Name: blackdiamondranch.com
> Address: 63.85.17.161
>
>> www.blackdiamondranch.com
> Server: london.nwtraders.msft
> Address: 192.168.1.200
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> Name: blackdiamondranch.com
> Address: 63.85.17.161
> Aliases: www.blackdiamondranch.com
> ===
>
> So I'm not sure what the 64.71.33.101 comes in play. I put that in to
> check if it has a reverse, and it comes back empty. I went to your
> website, and I must say that Black Diamond looks like a fabulous country
> club. I forwarded the link to my wife, who is the assistnt controller for
> a country club in our area. I'm sure she and others at the club will enjoy
> it.
>
> Ace
>
>
>
>
>

"JohnB" <> wrote in message
news:%...

Your country club site is amazing. The limestone quarry with elevations from
digging, surely did the trick!

Ace

> See reply to Chris' post.
>
> Thanks, on the club. Yes, for this part of the country(FL), which is
> totally flat, having a course with that much elevation change is also
> considered fabulous. It was all built in and around an old limestone
> quarry.
>
>
> "Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> "JohnB" <> wrote in message
>> news:%...
>>> If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it returns
>>> the IP address 63.85.17.161
>>>
>>> If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
>>> website of the company that created our website.
>>>
>>> Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the account
>>> for the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS records, and
>>> there is an A-record for our domain name pointing to 64.71.33.101
>>>
>>> And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not
>>> bring up our site.
>>>
>>> How does all of this even work, DNS wise?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> As Chris said, it's based on host headers. I used nslookup to check out
>> the name and IP address, and got the following:
>>
>> ===
>>> blackdiamondranch.com
>> Server: london.nwtraders.msft
>> Address: 192.168.1.200
>>
>> Non-authoritative answer:
>> Name: blackdiamondranch.com
>> Address: 63.85.17.161
>>
>>> www.blackdiamondranch.com
>> Server: london.nwtraders.msft
>> Address: 192.168.1.200
>>
>> Non-authoritative answer:
>> Name: blackdiamondranch.com
>> Address: 63.85.17.161
>> Aliases: www.blackdiamondranch.com
>> ===
>>
>> So I'm not sure what the 64.71.33.101 comes in play. I put that in to
>> check if it has a reverse, and it comes back empty. I went to your
>> website, and I must say that Black Diamond looks like a fabulous country
>> club. I forwarded the link to my wife, who is the assistnt controller for
>> a country club in our area. I'm sure she and others at the club will
>> enjoy it.
>>
>> Ace
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"JohnB" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Ok, I'm somewhat familiar with host headers, from studies and a home lab
> working with IIS.
>
> What started all this was I asked a question of the company that hosts our
> site. I had asked something about viewing website statiscitcs. Their
> explanation why I couldn't view them was; the domain name isn't registered
> with them, it's registered with Network Solutions. And the A-record for
> our website points to 63.85.17.161
>
> I understand that host headers allows one IP address to point to many
> websites, on the web server. But what's confusing to me is, that A-record
> doesn't point to the server that hosts our site. It points to the company
> that developed our site.
>
> So, this company that hosts our site, that I had asked the original
> quesiton of... is suggesting that we change the DNS records on our name
> servers to point to their webserver, as such:
> www.blackdiamondranch.com IN A 64.71.33.101
>
> I really am not interested in the website statistics or, in changing the
> A-record. I just find it hard to understand how our A-record can be
> pointing to 63.85.17.161 and requests ending up getting resolved to
> 64.71.33.101
>
> I hope that makes sense!
>

Currently it's set to 63.85.17.161.

Why do they want you to change it? Apparently they are uploading it to it's
current location. Isn't that good enough, or is there some other reason they
want you to change it to them? Possibly "lock" you in to their system making
it harder to move away, if you decide to choose so later down the line?

Ace

Hey John,

I fired up my packet sniffer, and request for your website are really
being answered by a server on the advertised IP address (161). There's
no redirection behind the scenes there. Unless the server on the 161
address is acting as a Proxy content is coming from the 161 IP.

I also popped a fake hosts entry in for your site on the other IP.
Interestingly enough it does also respond on that IP (same Host Headers
scenario, so you do need to fake the name resolution with either Hosts
or an internal DNS server). However, the site doesn't work very well
from there, it redirects to another IP because of this bit of HTML:

<meta HTTP-EQUIV="refresh"
CONTENT="0;URL=http://207.36.40.55/cgi-bin/protector/mojoProtector.cgi?action=login">

That doesn't work for me, it kills the page completely with a timeout.

Therefore, if you do consider changing the IP in the A record you need
to fully investigate the state of the site on the other web server first.

I don't do the golf bit, but the rotating pictures on your site are
absolutely lovely. Makes me sigh

Chris

JohnB wrote:
> Ok, I'm somewhat familiar with host headers, from studies and a home lab
> working with IIS.
>
> What started all this was I asked a question of the company that hosts our
> site. I had asked something about viewing website statiscitcs. Their
> explanation why I couldn't view them was; the domain name isn't registered
> with them, it's registered with Network Solutions. And the A-record for our
> website points to 63.85.17.161
>
> I understand that host headers allows one IP address to point to many
> websites, on the web server. But what's confusing to me is, that A-record
> doesn't point to the server that hosts our site. It points to the company
> that developed our site.
>
> So, this company that hosts our site, that I had asked the original quesiton
> of... is suggesting that we change the DNS records on our name servers to
> point to their webserver, as such:
> www.blackdiamondranch.com IN A 64.71.33.101
>
> I really am not interested in the website statistics or, in changing the
> A-record. I just find it hard to understand how our A-record can be
> pointing to 63.85.17.161 and requests ending up getting resolved to
> 64.71.33.101
>
> I hope that makes sense!
>
>
>
> "Chris Dent" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Hi John,
>>
>> It's not DNS, it's the web server.
>>
>> If you're using a shared-hosting platform you'll be sharing that IP
>> Address with any number of other customers. The web server takes inbound
>> request and filters it to specific sites based on the name you use. It's
>> referred to as Host Headers.
>>
>> When you use the IP Address alone you end up at the web site that doesn't
>> have a name associated with it, there will only be one of those on that
>> server for that IP address, so it makes sense you end up at the hosts
>> site.
>>
>> Otherwise each website would need a separate IP address, which can be very
>> wasteful and, in some instances, costly.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>

On 10/16/2009 8:42 AM, JohnB wrote:
> If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it
> returns the IP address 63.85.17.161
>
> If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
> website of the company that created our website.
>
> Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the
> account for the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS
> records, and there is an A-record for our domain name pointing to
> 64.71.33.101
>
> And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not
> bring up our site.
>
> How does all of this even work, DNS wise?

I believe that Clubessential /is/ hosting your web site. Everything
that I see (and others have reported) indicate that your web site is
living on (what appears to be) Clubessential's server.

If you (temporarily) bypass DNS by adding the following entry to your
hosts file (%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts)

64.71.33.101 www.blackdiamondranch.com blackdiamondranch.com

and flush your DNS (or reboot) and restart your browser (flush it's
cache) you will find part of what I'm betting is an old copy your club's
web site.

This leads me to believe that if you are paying someone to host your web
site at 64.71.33.101, I believe you are paying them for doing nothing.

At this point I would strongly suggest that you get someone from your
web design company on the phone and ask them to explain this situation
to your satisfaction. There may indeed be some sort of reverse proxying
going on like Chris suggested.

What ever is going on, I do think that Clubessential should spend some
time on the phone (or email) explaining this to your satisfaction.



Grant. . . .

You were right. Apparently someone (a non-IT person) at this company,
before I started working here, was talked into using this company, Hostway.
And they seem to be a *shady* group. I called them and they said we pay
them $40/month for a linux hosting service, and to register 3 domain names
we have. I told the guy that a WhoIs lookup shows Network Solutions is the
registrar. And then he said something (had a difficult time understanding
him with the *accent* he had) about that being true.

So a question that started about *understanding DNS* evolved into something
that saved this company some money. Which is always good.
Thanks Grant!



"Grant Taylor" <> wrote in message
news:hbj1cb$bk2$...
> On 10/16/2009 8:42 AM, JohnB wrote:
>> If I ping our company website - www.blackdiamondranch.com - it returns
>> the IP address 63.85.17.161
>>
>> If I open up a browser and enter http://63.85.17.161 it brings up the
>> website of the company that created our website.
>>
>> Our website is hosted by yet another company. If I login to the account
>> for the hosting service, I can "view" settings for our DNS records, and
>> there is an A-record for our domain name pointing to 64.71.33.101
>>
>> And of course, if you enter that IP address in a browser, it does not
>> bring up our site.
>>
>> How does all of this even work, DNS wise?
>
> I believe that Clubessential /is/ hosting your web site. Everything that
> I see (and others have reported) indicate that your web site is living on
> (what appears to be) Clubessential's server.
>
> If you (temporarily) bypass DNS by adding the following entry to your
> hosts file (%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts)
>
> 64.71.33.101 www.blackdiamondranch.com blackdiamondranch.com
>
> and flush your DNS (or reboot) and restart your browser (flush it's cache)
> you will find part of what I'm betting is an old copy your club's web
> site.
>
> This leads me to believe that if you are paying someone to host your web
> site at 64.71.33.101, I believe you are paying them for doing nothing.
>
> At this point I would strongly suggest that you get someone from your web
> design company on the phone and ask them to explain this situation to your
> satisfaction. There may indeed be some sort of reverse proxying going on
> like Chris suggested.
>
> What ever is going on, I do think that Clubessential should spend some
> time on the phone (or email) explaining this to your satisfaction.
>
>
>
> Grant. . . .