A note to Windows Vista Team

I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready, I've
wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!

I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more that
have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.

If I had the time, I would send the laptop back to my supplier and get
another one with XP on but I've wasted well over 2 days on this new laptop.
It's time that I and millions of others around the world can ill afford.

When will microsoft release an OS that works out of the box? They really
should let the developers and project managers take the lead with releases
and put the PR and Marketing people in the shed without telephones and
internet. I know they need to make money and they are a business that is
responsible for employing thousands of people around the world. But please,
please, please only sell goods that are fit for purpose.

Under the sale of goods act in the UK a product must be fit for purpose,
otherwise it can be taken back to the retailer for a refund. If everyone
took back vista, Microsoft would be in a sorry state now. I'm sure it would
cost more to administer that than they have generated from the sale of
vista.

For gods sake, make sure that "Son of Vista" works first time! I know that
it's us humans that program the bugs into code but it's mostly the extra
features that cause problems, not the core areas of software products that
are used daily. Where were the testers in all this? Were they in the shed
too?

By in large I've been a happy user of Microsoft OS's and Software and they
have done some great work and really put computing in every household around
the globe. Please don't loose sight of the original goals and ethos of the
company when it was originally set up.

A unhapy user!

Robert

This book is completely suited to someone like you see link below.

http://www.mcfedries.com/CIGWindowsVista/



"rob" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready, I've
> wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
> something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!
>
> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.
>
> If I had the time, I would send the laptop back to my supplier and get
> another one with XP on but I've wasted well over 2 days on this new
> laptop. It's time that I and millions of others around the world can ill
> afford.
>
> When will microsoft release an OS that works out of the box? They really
> should let the developers and project managers take the lead with releases
> and put the PR and Marketing people in the shed without telephones and
> internet. I know they need to make money and they are a business that is
> responsible for employing thousands of people around the world. But
> please, please, please only sell goods that are fit for purpose.
>
> Under the sale of goods act in the UK a product must be fit for purpose,
> otherwise it can be taken back to the retailer for a refund. If everyone
> took back vista, Microsoft would be in a sorry state now. I'm sure it
> would cost more to administer that than they have generated from the sale
> of vista.
>
> For gods sake, make sure that "Son of Vista" works first time! I know that
> it's us humans that program the bugs into code but it's mostly the extra
> features that cause problems, not the core areas of software products that
> are used daily. Where were the testers in all this? Were they in the shed
> too?
>
> By in large I've been a happy user of Microsoft OS's and Software and they
> have done some great work and really put computing in every household
> around the globe. Please don't loose sight of the original goals and ethos
> of the company when it was originally set up.
>
> A unhapy user!
>
> Robert
>

If I get time I'll get it and read it.

Although it will be before I get any more machines with vista on them

There are a lot of unhappy people out there!

"DX" <DX@> wrote in message news:...
> This book is completely suited to someone like you see link below.
>
> http://www.mcfedries.com/CIGWindowsVista/
>
>
>
> "rob" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready,
>> I've wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
>> something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!
>>
>> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
>> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.
>>
>> If I had the time, I would send the laptop back to my supplier and get
>> another one with XP on but I've wasted well over 2 days on this new
>> laptop. It's time that I and millions of others around the world can ill
>> afford.
>>
>> When will microsoft release an OS that works out of the box? They really
>> should let the developers and project managers take the lead with
>> releases and put the PR and Marketing people in the shed without
>> telephones and internet. I know they need to make money and they are a
>> business that is responsible for employing thousands of people around the
>> world. But please, please, please only sell goods that are fit for
>> purpose.
>>
>> Under the sale of goods act in the UK a product must be fit for purpose,
>> otherwise it can be taken back to the retailer for a refund. If everyone
>> took back vista, Microsoft would be in a sorry state now. I'm sure it
>> would cost more to administer that than they have generated from the sale
>> of vista.
>>
>> For gods sake, make sure that "Son of Vista" works first time! I know
>> that it's us humans that program the bugs into code but it's mostly the
>> extra features that cause problems, not the core areas of software
>> products that are used daily. Where were the testers in all this? Were
>> they in the shed too?
>>
>> By in large I've been a happy user of Microsoft OS's and Software and
>> they have done some great work and really put computing in every
>> household around the globe. Please don't loose sight of the original
>> goals and ethos of the company when it was originally set up.
>>
>> A unhapy user!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>

Just to clear the air: I'm not a Microsoft employee. I'm just a regular
user like yourself.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready,
> I've wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to
> do something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!

Vista was 5 years indevelopment, during which time most people
complained that Microsoft is dragging their feet. It really frosts my
briches that now it's here, people like you says it wasn't ready.

If you're having problem with unzipping files, then perhaps the problem
lies with the ZIP files themselves? Newer versions of WinZip introduced
additional archive compression options, including BZIP2 and PPMd. As far
as I can tell, these options are not compatible with Vista, so I always
use Legacy compression.

If your Zip files do use Legacy compression, then perhaps they have
been made with another program other than WinZip, and do not correctly
adhere to the ZIP standards. In this case, its entirely reasonable to
believe that updates for Vista have not yet been release that address
the problem.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.

Unless that was a typo, you're going to wait awhile for Vista SP2,
because SP1 is only slated for release sometime in the first half of
2008. Rough estimates, and a lot of guessing, then puts SP2 for Vista
sometime in late 2009 or early 2010.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> If I had the time, I would send the laptop back to my supplier and get
> another one with XP on but I've wasted well over 2 days on this new
> laptop. It's time that I and millions of others around the world can ill
> afford.

While I understand your frustration, you could have saved yourself a
lot of trouble had you first checked application and hardware
compatibility before committing to purchasing your laptop with Vista
preloaded.

I see this all the time. Many of my customers believe they "are wasting
time by first doing their research", despite all my warnings. They rush
into a decision, and at best spend more time fixing compatibility
issues, and at worst, end up spending even more money on hardware or
software that does work.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> When will microsoft release an OS that works out of the box? They really
> should let the developers and project managers take the lead with
> releases and put the PR and Marketing people in the shed without
> telephones and internet. I know they need to make money and they are a
> business that is responsible for employing thousands of people around
> the world. But please, please, please only sell goods that are fit for
> purpose.

Windows Vista does "work out of the box" for millions of people around
the world. Yes, there are those few exceptions for whom it doesn't, but
thats also only because they didn't do their homework first. Then
there's also those few who choose to upgrade for the sake of upgrading.
I pity them, because they're the ones who normally spout trash about how
bad Vista is when they themselves do not know what they are doing.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> Under the sale of goods act in the UK a product must be fit for purpose,
> otherwise it can be taken back to the retailer for a refund. If everyone
> took back vista, Microsoft would be in a sorry state now. I'm sure it
> would cost more to administer that than they have generated from the
> sale of vista.

I suggest you contact the supplier where you purchased your laptop and
find out what your "Revert-To-XP" options are. Most, if not all,
companies have some kind of return policy within a set number of days
(usually 14-45 days). For a limited time, this may also include the
facility (for a small fee) do downgrade back to XP.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> For gods sake, make sure that "Son of Vista" works first time! I know
> that it's us humans that program the bugs into code but it's mostly the
> extra features that cause problems, not the core areas of software
> products that are used daily. Where were the testers in all this? Were
> they in the shed too?

Vista does work first time.

As for the testers, I'm one of them. I'm of thousands (millions?) who
participated in the BETA program. Ask around on this NG, and I'm certain
that you'll find others.

rob;513396 Wrote:
> By in large I've been a happy user of Microsoft OS's and Software and
> they have done some great work and really put computing in every
> household around the globe. Please don't loose sight of the original
> goals and ethos of the company when it was originally set up.
>
> A unhapy user!
>
> Robert

I'm fairly certain that Microsoft have their goals firmly in their
sights. Vista and Office 2007 are prime examples of the useability
studies and improvements made over the years that truly do bring
computing to the masses.

Make use of this NG. There are many members here, other than myself,
who are willing to assist with whatever problems you have. All you need
to do is ask the right questions.


--
dzomlija

____________________________________
Peter Alexander Dzomlija
Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? -And as
you die, so shall I be Reborn-...

- ASUS A8N32-SLI-Deluxe
- AMD Atlon 64 Dual-Core 4800+
- 4GB DDR400
- ASUS nVidia 6600
- Thermaltake Tai-Chi Watercooled Chassis
- 1207GB Total Formatted Storage
- Vista Ultimate x64
- CodeGear Delphi 2007'http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/' (http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/)

I agree with you completely - I have wasted hours and hours time trying to
get Vista to work properly - just simple things like finding drivers did not
work until I spent hours of googling for the solution (you have to delete a
file in C/WIndows/Inf - then it works). Then I had to work out how to turn
off that stupid UAC feature which slows everything down, then I had to work
out how to turn off DEP as that stopped other stuff working properly. I had
to replace my printer, and chuck out loads of really good software that is
not compatible and find free replacements (eg goodbyy Adobe Professional 8.0
and hello PrimoPDF).

The problems are just so endless that I am now waiting for a free couple of
days so that I can format my PCs and reinstall XP on them and then reinstall
all the software - what a nightmare!!

Like you, I am looking to buy a laptop but am having problems finding what I
want with XP on it. No way will I buy a Vista machine....

"rob" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready, I've
> wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
> something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!
>
> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.
>
Never had any problems unzipping a file in Vista.
As for SP2, you will have to wait a very long time (probably 3 or 4 years)
as SP1 hasn't come out yet.
Mike.

I think Rob does make a valid point though that Vista is not for business
users. It does not add any productivity features - all it adds is a lot of
complication and unnecessary frills (eg Aero) and you can't strip out
unwanted components (eg Windows Mail, Windows Calendar etc, which just
duplicate and confuse a typical Outlook installation on a business PC). I
can't see any business users wanting to adopt it - what do they gain except
hassle?

Vista reminds me of ME - that was another poorly planned bloaty OS with lots
of instability issues and components that were impossible to remove.

For my small business I am going back to XP with Office 2003 and OneCare,
which all integrate nicely together with no duplication of programs, and
with all the frills that just distract employees stripped out.

I know, that's my point entirely!
It should have settled down in 3 or 4 years and the bugs ironed out



"Mike Cawood, HND BIT" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "rob" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready,
>> I've wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
>> something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!
>>
>> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
>> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.
>>
> Never had any problems unzipping a file in Vista.
> As for SP2, you will have to wait a very long time (probably 3 or 4 years)
> as SP1 hasn't come out yet.
> Mike.
>
>

Ric;513443 Wrote:
> I agree with you completely - I have wasted hours and hours time trying
> to get Vista to work properly - just simple things like finding drivers
> did not work until I spent hours of googling for the solution (you have
> to delete a file in C/WIndows/Inf - then it works). Then I had to work
> out how to turn off that stupid UAC feature which slows everything down,
> then I had to work out how to turn off DEP as that stopped other stuff
> working properly. I had to replace my printer, and chuck out loads of
> really good software that is not compatible and find free replacements
> (eg goodbyy Adobe Professional 8.0 and hello PrimoPDF).

Would it not have been better to spend a couple hours researching
software and hard compatibility -_before_- committing to purchasing
Vista?

That's what I done, and I've not had major problems as you're
describing with Vista. Sure, I've had the odd glitch introduced because
of buggy drivers and such, but nothing that would warrant not using
Vista at all.

Ric;513443 Wrote:
> The problems are just so endless that I am now waiting for a free couple
> of days so that I can format my PCs and reinstall XP on them and then
> reinstall all the software - what a nightmare!!

The time you spend re-formatting, reloading XP and re-installing all
you drivers and applications will be better spent actually looking for a
solution to your problem. Here's a clue: Instead of using Google to find
drivers, why don't you go to your device manufacturers website instead?
It works much better that way, and you won't have to compound the
problem by deleting file from c:\windows\inf.

Ric;513443 Wrote:
> Like you, I am looking to buy a laptop but am having problems finding
> what I want with XP on it. No way will I buy a Vista machine....

Is there any particular reason why you don't want a Vista laptop?
("because I don't like Vista" is not a good reason)...


--
dzomlija

____________________________________
Peter Alexander Dzomlija
Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? -And as
you die, so shall I be Reborn-...

- ASUS A8N32-SLI-Deluxe
- AMD Atlon 64 Dual-Core 4800+
- 4GB DDR400
- ASUS nVidia 6600
- Thermaltake Tai-Chi Watercooled Chassis
- 1207GB Total Formatted Storage
- Vista Ultimate x64
- CodeGear Delphi 2007'http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/' (http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/)

I haven't found anything wrong with VISTA that using a blowtorch on the DVD
prior to installation won't fix.
I can make it work fine, I haven't had the problems I see so many complain
about.
I can run my video cards (probably because I use ATI instead of NVidia...)
unzipping isn't a problem, my software works fine, even my printers and
wireless work.
I just dislike the look and feel and I hate the Nanny they call UAC.
All that will do is condition people to click through it as quickly as
possible without reading what it is asking.
If Fisher Price had done the front end and AOL the back end, it would
probably have been better...
But I complained all the way through BETA and they ignored it.
MS knew what they wanted, and that is what they put out. Nannyware.
I have no idea what they were thinking, I think it is a giant step
BACKWARDS!

"DX" <DX@> wrote in message news:...
> This book is completely suited to someone like you see link below.
>
> http://www.mcfedries.com/CIGWindowsVista/
>
>
>
> "rob" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> I'm quite angry with Microsoft for releasing Vista before it's ready,
>> I've wasted 8 hours of my time in a small business trying to get it to do
>> something that XP does without fault, i.e. Unziping a file!
>>
>> I'm replacing my desktops with laptops, and I won't be buying any more
>> that have Vista on until Service pack 2 comes out.
>>
>> If I had the time, I would send the laptop back to my supplier and get
>> another one with XP on but I've wasted well over 2 days on this new
>> laptop. It's time that I and millions of others around the world can ill
>> afford.
>>
>> When will microsoft release an OS that works out of the box? They really
>> should let the developers and project managers take the lead with
>> releases and put the PR and Marketing people in the shed without
>> telephones and internet. I know they need to make money and they are a
>> business that is responsible for employing thousands of people around the
>> world. But please, please, please only sell goods that are fit for
>> purpose.
>>
>> Under the sale of goods act in the UK a product must be fit for purpose,
>> otherwise it can be taken back to the retailer for a refund. If everyone
>> took back vista, Microsoft would be in a sorry state now. I'm sure it
>> would cost more to administer that than they have generated from the sale
>> of vista.
>>
>> For gods sake, make sure that "Son of Vista" works first time! I know
>> that it's us humans that program the bugs into code but it's mostly the
>> extra features that cause problems, not the core areas of software
>> products that are used daily. Where were the testers in all this? Were
>> they in the shed too?
>>
>> By in large I've been a happy user of Microsoft OS's and Software and
>> they have done some great work and really put computing in every
>> household around the globe. Please don't loose sight of the original
>> goals and ethos of the company when it was originally set up.
>>
>> A unhapy user!
>>
>> Robert
>>
>