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Andre
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Recently I have been experiencing an issue with Windows Vista I wasn't
before. I'll try to explain all the facts and some discoveries I have made on this matter. Some time after Vista boots, the kernel System "process" (PID 4) will open handles on all the ntuser.dat files of all users on my computer. In that case, if an user tries to logon on his account he sees the "Preparing your Desktop" message and when it is done there is a baloon on system tray saying that the profile could not be loaded, the user is on a temporary account and any changes he makes will not be saved. The only way an user can successfully logon on his account is by rebooting the computer. I don't think the ntuser.dat files are corrupted because I can successfully logon the users after a reboot (and have no problems thereafter). I used Handle and Process Explorer applications from Sysinternals and realised that once the System process opens handles on the ntuser.dat files I start having the logon issues. I still haven't been able to determine why and when the System process will open those handles after the computer boots. Unfortunately, that has sincerely became an unacceptable behaviour since rebooting the computer will interrupt some tasks other users left running on their users (from a Switch User command) or any service task running on the machine in the background. Honestly, I don't think this problem is related to my anti-virus. Firstly, it is the Kernel System "process" that is locking the ntuser.dat files. Moreover, my anti-virus software has NOT been updated recently (specially since I began having this problem) and, finally, I have the exact same anti-virus software (same version) with a different licence running on my laptop without this problem. My laptop, for some reason, hasn't been offered for the SP2 update yet while my desktop (where the problem lies) has all updates on Windows Update up until today. I have tried formatting and performing a clean install on my computer three times and everytime I came up with the exact same issue. For each format I tried installing the updates in a different manner. I have tried installing SP1 and SP2 from standalone download files (and the remaining updates on Windows Update). Then I have tried installing all updates (including the service packs) from Windows Update. I have also tried installing the updates on Windows Update but holding back a little before actually installing them. I have been 3 days free from this issue since my last clean install and now after some updates I have it again. The last installed updates I can see were: KB949104, KB890830, KB973346, KB905866, KB961371, KB960353, KB915597. Some of these updates are Malicious Software removal, Windows Defender updates and Junk Mail filter updates which I don't think are causing this issue. Actually, to be more precise, I believe it was an update after June 19th, a date I can remember I wasn't having this problem. In any case, just to be clear, these are some information on my computer: Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bits Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM NOD32 Anti-Virus 3.0.672.0 (the forums here clearly state that the version 3 of NOD32 is free from the SP2 issues, only version 4 present them) Below is the output of the handle application when I experience this issue. Just to be clear, there was only one user logged on the machine at the time this capture was executed. D:\Home\Andre\Program Installers\Power Toys\Handle>handle ntuser.dat Handle v3.42 Copyright (C) 1997-2008 Mark Russinovich Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com System pid: 4 320: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf System pid: 4 324: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT System pid: 4 328: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG1 System pid: 4 32C: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG2 System pid: 4 330: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 334: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 748: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf System pid: 4 750: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG1 System pid: 4 754: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT System pid: 4 758: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG2 System pid: 4 75C: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 760: C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 964: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 14A0: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT System pid: 4 1BDC: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 1BF8: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf System pid: 4 1C08: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 System pid: 4 1C0C: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 System pid: 4 1C14: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 1D78: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT System pid: 4 1EF0: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 System pid: 4 2078: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 209C: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms System pid: 4 2150: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf System pid: 4 21CC: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 System pid: 4 2254: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT System pid: 4 226C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 System pid: 4 228C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 System pid: 4 233C: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf System pid: 4 237C: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms I renamed the user profile names but believe me when I say those are ntuser.dat files from three different directories (user profiles) on my machine. The Event Viewer IDs when a user tries to logon in these conditions are 1508, 1502, 1515 and 1511, all issued by "User Profile Service". Does anyone have any suggestion on what could be causing this? I posted this exact same issue on Microsoft Answers (here: http://social.answers.microsoft.com/...e-6fee09b3a658 ) and I am also posting here on the Newsgroups hoping that someone else have any suggestions for me. I would like to thank you, in advance. Andre |
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Jon
Guest
Posts: n/a
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I don't know the answer, but I don't think you can necessarily connect the particular symptoms of open handles to ntuser.dat, with the problem of user profiles not being loaded. Not that I know why those handles are being created / maintained, but I'd look initially for more direct ways of dealing with the issue eg this site has some suggestions How to Fix the Error "The User Profile Service failed the logon. User profile cannot be loaded." http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/13...ot-loaded.html -- Jon "Andre" <> wrote in message news:BE52201B-1E04-43BF-ACC6-... > Recently I have been experiencing an issue with Windows Vista I wasn't > before. I'll try to explain all the facts and some discoveries I have made > on > this matter. > > Some time after Vista boots, the kernel System "process" (PID 4) will open > handles on all the ntuser.dat files of all users on my computer. In that > case, if an user tries to logon on his account he sees the "Preparing your > Desktop" message and when it is done there is a baloon on system tray > saying > that the profile could not be loaded, the user is on a temporary account > and > any changes he makes will not be saved. The only way an user can > successfully > logon on his account is by rebooting the computer. I don't think the > ntuser.dat files are corrupted because I can successfully logon the users > after a reboot (and have no problems thereafter). I used Handle and > Process > Explorer applications from Sysinternals and realised that once the System > process opens handles on the ntuser.dat files I start having the logon > issues. I still haven't been able to determine why and when the System > process will open those handles after the computer boots. Unfortunately, > that > has sincerely became an unacceptable behaviour since rebooting the > computer > will interrupt some tasks other users left running on their users (from a > Switch User command) or any service task running on the machine in the > background. > > Honestly, I don't think this problem is related to my anti-virus. Firstly, > it is the Kernel System "process" that is locking the ntuser.dat files. > Moreover, my anti-virus software has NOT been updated recently (specially > since I began having this problem) and, finally, I have the exact same > anti-virus software (same version) with a different licence running on my > laptop without this problem. My laptop, for some reason, hasn't been > offered > for the SP2 update yet while my desktop (where the problem lies) has all > updates on Windows Update up until today. I have tried formatting and > performing a clean install on my computer three times and everytime I came > up > with the exact same issue. For each format I tried installing the updates > in > a different manner. I have tried installing SP1 and SP2 from standalone > download files (and the remaining updates on Windows Update). Then I have > tried installing all updates (including the service packs) from Windows > Update. I have also tried installing the updates on Windows Update but > holding back a little before actually installing them. I have been 3 days > free from this issue since my last clean install and now after some > updates I > have it again. The last installed updates I can see were: KB949104, > KB890830, > KB973346, KB905866, KB961371, KB960353, KB915597. Some of these updates > are > Malicious Software removal, Windows Defender updates and Junk Mail filter > updates which I don't think are causing this issue. Actually, to be more > precise, I believe it was an update after June 19th, a date I can remember > I > wasn't having this problem. > > In any case, just to be clear, these are some information on my computer: > Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bits > Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM > NOD32 Anti-Virus 3.0.672.0 (the forums here clearly state that the version > 3 > of NOD32 is free from the SP2 issues, only version 4 present them) > > Below is the output of the handle application when I experience this > issue. > Just to be clear, there was only one user logged on the machine at the > time > this capture was executed. > > D:\Home\Andre\Program Installers\Power Toys\Handle>handle ntuser.dat > > Handle v3.42 > Copyright (C) 1997-2008 Mark Russinovich > Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com > > System pid: 4 320: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > System pid: 4 324: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT > System pid: 4 328: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG1 > System pid: 4 32C: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG2 > System pid: 4 330: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 334: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 748: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > System pid: 4 750: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG1 > System pid: 4 754: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT > System pid: 4 758: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG2 > System pid: 4 75C: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 760: > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 964: > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 14A0: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT > System pid: 4 1BDC: > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 1BF8: > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > System pid: 4 1C08: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > System pid: 4 1C0C: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > System pid: 4 1C14: > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 1D78: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT > System pid: 4 1EF0: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > System pid: 4 2078: > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 209C: > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > System pid: 4 2150: > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > System pid: 4 21CC: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > System pid: 4 2254: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT > System pid: 4 226C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > System pid: 4 228C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > System pid: 4 233C: > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > System pid: 4 237C: > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > I renamed the user profile names but believe me when I say those are > ntuser.dat files from three different directories (user profiles) on my > machine. The Event Viewer IDs when a user tries to logon in these > conditions > are 1508, 1502, 1515 and 1511, all issued by "User Profile Service". Does > anyone have any suggestion on what could be causing this? > > I posted this exact same issue on Microsoft Answers (here: > http://social.answers.microsoft.com/...e-6fee09b3a658 > ) and I am also posting here on the Newsgroups hoping that someone else > have > any suggestions for me. > > I would like to thank you, in advance. > > Andre > |
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Andre
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Hi Jon, thank you for your reply. I have confirmed, after innumerous testing,
that the issue really happens when the handles are opened. I have spent almost three entire days running the handle application and logging on my users. Every time the handles were not opened, I could log on successfully. When the handles appeared on the list, I couldn't anymore. I rebooted and restarted the process. I have tried disabling the System Restore, the VSS (Volume Shadow Copy), nothing. It is very unfortunate that this is giving me so much headaches. I tried deleting and creating full new profies (no configuration backups), nothing. I tried formatting my PC and not installing any programs but the Windows Updates, I still had the problem. Unfortunately, it seems, not many people have the same usage habits than I have. Usually computers are used by one single person (or one single profile) and they will never experience the issue I am having. Thank you again. "Jon" wrote: > I don't know the answer, but I don't think you can necessarily connect the > particular symptoms of open handles to ntuser.dat, with the problem of user > profiles not being loaded. Not that I know why those handles are being > created / maintained, but I'd look initially for more direct ways of dealing > with the issue eg this site has some suggestions > > How to Fix the Error "The User Profile Service failed the logon. User > profile cannot be loaded." > http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/13...ot-loaded.html > > -- > Jon > > > "Andre" <> wrote in message > news:BE52201B-1E04-43BF-ACC6-... > > Recently I have been experiencing an issue with Windows Vista I wasn't > > before. I'll try to explain all the facts and some discoveries I have made > > on > > this matter. > > > > Some time after Vista boots, the kernel System "process" (PID 4) will open > > handles on all the ntuser.dat files of all users on my computer. In that > > case, if an user tries to logon on his account he sees the "Preparing your > > Desktop" message and when it is done there is a baloon on system tray > > saying > > that the profile could not be loaded, the user is on a temporary account > > and > > any changes he makes will not be saved. The only way an user can > > successfully > > logon on his account is by rebooting the computer. I don't think the > > ntuser.dat files are corrupted because I can successfully logon the users > > after a reboot (and have no problems thereafter). I used Handle and > > Process > > Explorer applications from Sysinternals and realised that once the System > > process opens handles on the ntuser.dat files I start having the logon > > issues. I still haven't been able to determine why and when the System > > process will open those handles after the computer boots. Unfortunately, > > that > > has sincerely became an unacceptable behaviour since rebooting the > > computer > > will interrupt some tasks other users left running on their users (from a > > Switch User command) or any service task running on the machine in the > > background. > > > > Honestly, I don't think this problem is related to my anti-virus. Firstly, > > it is the Kernel System "process" that is locking the ntuser.dat files. > > Moreover, my anti-virus software has NOT been updated recently (specially > > since I began having this problem) and, finally, I have the exact same > > anti-virus software (same version) with a different licence running on my > > laptop without this problem. My laptop, for some reason, hasn't been > > offered > > for the SP2 update yet while my desktop (where the problem lies) has all > > updates on Windows Update up until today. I have tried formatting and > > performing a clean install on my computer three times and everytime I came > > up > > with the exact same issue. For each format I tried installing the updates > > in > > a different manner. I have tried installing SP1 and SP2 from standalone > > download files (and the remaining updates on Windows Update). Then I have > > tried installing all updates (including the service packs) from Windows > > Update. I have also tried installing the updates on Windows Update but > > holding back a little before actually installing them. I have been 3 days > > free from this issue since my last clean install and now after some > > updates I > > have it again. The last installed updates I can see were: KB949104, > > KB890830, > > KB973346, KB905866, KB961371, KB960353, KB915597. Some of these updates > > are > > Malicious Software removal, Windows Defender updates and Junk Mail filter > > updates which I don't think are causing this issue. Actually, to be more > > precise, I believe it was an update after June 19th, a date I can remember > > I > > wasn't having this problem. > > > > In any case, just to be clear, these are some information on my computer: > > Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bits > > Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM > > NOD32 Anti-Virus 3.0.672.0 (the forums here clearly state that the version > > 3 > > of NOD32 is free from the SP2 issues, only version 4 present them) > > > > Below is the output of the handle application when I experience this > > issue. > > Just to be clear, there was only one user logged on the machine at the > > time > > this capture was executed. > > > > D:\Home\Andre\Program Installers\Power Toys\Handle>handle ntuser.dat > > > > Handle v3.42 > > Copyright (C) 1997-2008 Mark Russinovich > > Sysinternals - www.sysinternals.com > > > > System pid: 4 320: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > > System pid: 4 324: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT > > System pid: 4 328: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG1 > > System pid: 4 32C: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\ntuser.d at.LOG2 > > System pid: 4 330: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 334: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\NetworkService\NTUSER.D AT{0f694461-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 748: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > > System pid: 4 750: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG1 > > System pid: 4 754: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT > > System pid: 4 758: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\ntuser.dat .LOG2 > > System pid: 4 75C: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 760: > > C:\Windows\ServiceProfiles\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT {0f694465-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 964: > > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 14A0: C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT > > System pid: 4 1BDC: > > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 1BF8: > > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > > System pid: 4 1C08: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > > System pid: 4 1C0C: C:\Users\[user2]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > > System pid: 4 1C14: > > C:\Users\[user2]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 1D78: C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT > > System pid: 4 1EF0: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > > System pid: 4 2078: > > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 209C: > > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000002.regt rans-ms > > System pid: 4 2150: > > C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > > System pid: 4 21CC: C:\Users\[user3]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > > System pid: 4 2254: C:\Users\[user3]\NTUSER.DAT > > System pid: 4 226C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG1 > > System pid: 4 228C: C:\Users\[user1]\ntuser.dat.LOG2 > > System pid: 4 233C: > > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TM.blf > > System pid: 4 237C: > > C:\Users\[user1]\NTUSER.DAT{0f69446d-6a70-11db-8eb3-985e31beb686}.TMContainer00000000000000000001.regt rans-ms > > > > I renamed the user profile names but believe me when I say those are > > ntuser.dat files from three different directories (user profiles) on my > > machine. The Event Viewer IDs when a user tries to logon in these > > conditions > > are 1508, 1502, 1515 and 1511, all issued by "User Profile Service". Does > > anyone have any suggestion on what could be causing this? > > > > I posted this exact same issue on Microsoft Answers (here: > > http://social.answers.microsoft.com/...e-6fee09b3a658 > > ) and I am also posting here on the Newsgroups hoping that someone else > > have > > any suggestions for me. > > > > I would like to thank you, in advance. > > > > Andre > > > > |
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