A patch is preventing the system from starting. - Which one?

So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista x64
Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't open
or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into safe
mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..

So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
the log shows

Root cause found:
---------------------------
A patch is preventing the system from starting.

Repair action: System Restore
Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
Time taken = 144676 ms

My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how do I
tell which patch prevented my system from starting?

You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
patches. About your only choices are stop using the driver or the patch. You
can easily select one patch at a time to test, using system restore to go
back on failure. "Safe Mode With Command Prompt" will accept the command:

%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe

You can also try to detect the problem using the error reporting available
in the Windows Update app. When you 'view update history' you get a link to
troubleshooting help.

If an error has occurred, it will be displayed with an error code that you
can use to search online for help.



--
Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...help_en-us.htm
Mark L. Ferguson MS-MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguson

"Thalador" <> wrote in message
news:B2ED7C35-6BF8-463A-AEBA-...
> So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista
> x64
> Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
> update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
> problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't
> open
> or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into
> safe
> mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..
>
> So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
> the log shows
>
> Root cause found:
> ---------------------------
> A patch is preventing the system from starting.
>
> Repair action: System Restore
> Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
> Time taken = 144676 ms
>
> My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
> to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how
> do I
> tell which patch prevented my system from starting?
>

So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
starting, it can't tell me which? This seems absurd to me. You advice tells
me to redo each patch, reboot and hope it doesnt blow up. While it may be an
answer, I was hoping I can determine which one is the problem

"Mark L. Ferguson" wrote:

> You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
> patches. About your only choices are stop using the driver or the patch. You
> can easily select one patch at a time to test, using system restore to go
> back on failure. "Safe Mode With Command Prompt" will accept the command:
>
> %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe
>
> You can also try to detect the problem using the error reporting available
> in the Windows Update app. When you 'view update history' you get a link to
> troubleshooting help.
>
> If an error has occurred, it will be displayed with an error code that you
> can use to search online for help.
>
>
>
> --
> Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
> Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
> http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...help_en-us.htm
> Mark L. Ferguson MS-MVP
> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguson
>
> "Thalador" <> wrote in message
> news:B2ED7C35-6BF8-463A-AEBA-...
> > So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista
> > x64
> > Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
> > update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
> > problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't
> > open
> > or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into
> > safe
> > mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..
> >
> > So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
> > the log shows
> >
> > Root cause found:
> > ---------------------------
> > A patch is preventing the system from starting.
> >
> > Repair action: System Restore
> > Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
> > Time taken = 144676 ms
> >
> > My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
> > to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how
> > do I
> > tell which patch prevented my system from starting?
> >

Thalador,

Some times you have to do outrageous things in order to find out what is
going wrong. Even if this does mean having to install or remove and then
restart over and over. The only way you're going to find out anything
specific is if the Windows failure leaves you an error file that you can
catch some information from. You said that it can't tell you what is
failing, so this is probably a lost cause; forcing you to return to the only
thing that will work, and that is trial and error. Unfortunately, computer
problems aren't always click and fix, as I'm sure you know. If not, you will
learn soon enough, lol.

Sorry that you are having this problem, bud. The only thing that I can tell
you to help you any farther is to check the updates that you are installing
before you install them. Make sure they are compatible with your system and
devices before you install it. I've had a couple of updates that had my
computer crippled for months, but are no longer an issue thanks to
reformatting and watching what I installed. The only way you will be able to
tell what patch (aka update) is effecting your system, you should do what
Mike advised, and try installing them one by one. Maybe two by two, so you
can move a bit faster, as I know there can be a lot.

--

Colton, PHP/VB6/HTML/CSS/Javscript/IIS/Apache
OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1

- http://explosion.debug-inc.com
-


"Thalador" <> wrote in message
news:29852A44-1AF6-4A54-8452-...
> So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
> starting, it can't tell me which? This seems absurd to me. You advice
> tells
> me to redo each patch, reboot and hope it doesnt blow up. While it may be
> an
> answer, I was hoping I can determine which one is the problem
>
> "Mark L. Ferguson" wrote:
>
>> You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
>> patches. About your only choices are stop using the driver or the patch.
>> You
>> can easily select one patch at a time to test, using system restore to go
>> back on failure. "Safe Mode With Command Prompt" will accept the command:
>>
>> %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe
>>
>> You can also try to detect the problem using the error reporting
>> available
>> in the Windows Update app. When you 'view update history' you get a link
>> to
>> troubleshooting help.
>>
>> If an error has occurred, it will be displayed with an error code that
>> you
>> can use to search online for help.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
>> Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...help_en-us.htm
>> Mark L. Ferguson MS-MVP
>> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguson
>>
>> "Thalador" <> wrote in message
>> news:B2ED7C35-6BF8-463A-AEBA-...
>> > So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista
>> > x64
>> > Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
>> > update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
>> > problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't
>> > open
>> > or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into
>> > safe
>> > mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..
>> >
>> > So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the
>> > end
>> > the log shows
>> >
>> > Root cause found:
>> > ---------------------------
>> > A patch is preventing the system from starting.
>> >
>> > Repair action: System Restore
>> > Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
>> > Time taken = 144676 ms
>> >
>> > My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14
>> > patches
>> > to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So,
>> > how
>> > do I
>> > tell which patch prevented my system from starting?
>> >

I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone
I am using Vista Premium 64bit with a Core i7 and 9 gigs of ram.
cannot update anything because it gets rolled back. I cannot believ
that with 5+ years of programming creating Vista; debugging, uni
testing, QA'ing that Microsoft did and they cannot match an error to
patch. I have only had this thing since Xmas so it can only be one o
about 20 things.

You say I might have some hardware that cannot handle the patch? Wel
I've looked through every device driver and see no problem except th
6to4 ipv6 fiasco that thousands of people have. I've disabled ipv6.

This is unacceptable and the reason many people are jumping ship fo
Macs because most of the time, they just work, period. I have
compatibility problem with a Microsoft Laser Mouse 5000 forcing me t
NOT even be able to use Aero.

There is no way on Earth I'm going to undo the last 20 times I've trie
to install updates to find the "patch" that doesn't work. Why doesn'
Microsoft have a real customer support center? At this point my pc boot
but rebooting is a crap shoot. Vista is taking valuable time away fro
me and my work, and frankly I'm close to just wiping this very fast bo
clean and installing XP Pro. I hope the people who got laid off at M
are the lame programmers who screwed the pooch with Vista. Windows 7 i
obviously what Vista was supposed to be. It better be a free upgrade o
I'm jumping ship

--
Frustrated Use
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frustrated User's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/members/frustrated-user.ht
View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/1087073.ht

http://forums.techarena.i

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:04:10 +0530, Frustrated User wrote:

> I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone.
>
> I am using Vista Premium 64bit with a Core i7 and 9 gigs of ram. I
>
> cannot update anything because it gets rolled back. I cannot believe
>
> that with 5+ years of programming creating Vista; debugging, unit
>
> testing, QA'ing that Microsoft did and they cannot match an error to a
>
> patch. I have only had this thing since Xmas so it can only be one of
>
> about 20 things.
>
> You say I might have some hardware that cannot handle the patch? Well
>
> I've looked through every device driver and see no problem except the
>
> 6to4 ipv6 fiasco that thousands of people have. I've disabled ipv6.
>
> This is unacceptable and the reason many people are jumping ship for
>
> Macs because most of the time, they just work, period. I have a
>
> compatibility problem with a Microsoft Laser Mouse 5000 forcing me to
>
> NOT even be able to use Aero.
>
> There is no way on Earth I'm going to undo the last 20 times I've tried
>
> to install updates to find the "patch" that doesn't work. Why doesn't
>
> Microsoft have a real customer support center? At this point my pc boots
>
> but rebooting is a crap shoot. Vista is taking valuable time away from
>
> me and my work, and frankly I'm close to just wiping this very fast box
>
> clean and installing XP Pro. I hope the people who got laid off at MS
>
> are the lame programmers who screwed the pooch with Vista. Windows 7 is
>
> obviously what Vista was supposed to be. It better be a free upgrade or
>
> I'm jumping ship.
>
>
>
>
>

You need Linux. These problems do not exist

I have found myself in the same position, unfortunately I don't have a system restore point on my computer. Now as a result can't get windows running again any thoughts on how I can get around this?



Thalado wrote:

A patch is preventing the system from starting. - Which one?
13-Dec-08

So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista x64
Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't open
or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into safe
mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors.

So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
the log show

Root cause found:
--------------------------
A patch is preventing the system from starting

Repair action: System Restor
Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x
Time taken = 144676 m

My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how do I
tell which patch prevented my system from starting?

Previous Posts In This Thread:

On Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:01 AM
Thalado wrote:

A patch is preventing the system from starting. - Which one?
So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista x64
Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't open
or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into safe
mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors.

So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
the log show

Root cause found:
--------------------------
A patch is preventing the system from starting

Repair action: System Restor
Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x
Time taken = 144676 m

My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how do I
tell which patch prevented my system from starting?

On Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:14 AM
Mark L. Ferguson wrote:

You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the patches.
You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
patches. About your only choices are stop using the driver or the patch. You
can easily select one patch at a time to test, using system restore to go
back on failure. "Safe Mode With Command Prompt" will accept the command

%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.ex

You can also try to detect the problem using the error reporting available
in the Windows Update app. When you 'view update history' you get a link to
troubleshooting help

If an error has occurred, it will be displayed with an error code that you
can use to search online for help


--
Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users
Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales/help/help_en-us.ht
Mark L. Ferguson MS-MV
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguso

"Thalador" <> wrote in message
news:B2ED7C35-6BF8-463A-AEBA-...

On Monday, December 15, 2008 11:36 AM
Thalado wrote:

So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
starting, it can't tell me which? This seems absurd to me. You advice tells
me to redo each patch, reboot and hope it doesnt blow up. While it may be an
answer, I was hoping I can determine which one is the proble

"Mark L. Ferguson" wrote:

On Monday, December 15, 2008 2:19 PM
Colton wrote:

Thalador, Some times you have to do outrageous things in order to find out
Thalador

Some times you have to do outrageous things in order to find out what is
going wrong. Even if this does mean having to install or remove and then
restart over and over. The only way you're going to find out anything
specific is if the Windows failure leaves you an error file that you can
catch some information from. You said that it can't tell you what is
failing, so this is probably a lost cause; forcing you to return to the only
thing that will work, and that is trial and error. Unfortunately, computer
problems aren't always click and fix, as I'm sure you know. If not, you will
learn soon enough, lol.

Sorry that you are having this problem, bud. The only thing that I can tell
you to help you any farther is to check the updates that you are installing
before you install them. Make sure they are compatible with your system and
devices before you install it. I've had a couple of updates that had my
computer crippled for months, but are no longer an issue thanks to
reformatting and watching what I installed. The only way you will be able to
tell what patch (aka update) is effecting your system, you should do what
Mike advised, and try installing them one by one. Maybe two by two, so you
can move a bit faster, as I know there can be a lot.

--

Colton, PHP/VB6/HTML/CSS/Javscript/IIS/Apache
OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1

- http://explosion.debug-inc.com
-


"Thalador" <> wrote in message
news:29852A44-1AF6-4A54-8452-...

On Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:34 PM
Frustrated User wrote:

I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone.
I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone.
I am using Vista Premium 64bit with a Core i7 and 9 gigs of ram. I
cannot update anything because it gets rolled back. I cannot believe
that with 5+ years of programming creating Vista; debugging, unit
testing, QA'ing that Microsoft did and they cannot match an error to a
patch. I have only had this thing since Xmas so it can only be one of
about 20 things.

You say I might have some hardware that cannot handle the patch? Well
I've looked through every device driver and see no problem except the
6to4 ipv6 fiasco that thousands of people have. I've disabled ipv6.

This is unacceptable and the reason many people are jumping ship for
Macs because most of the time, they just work, period. I have a
compatibility problem with a Microsoft Laser Mouse 5000 forcing me to
NOT even be able to use Aero.

There is no way on Earth I'm going to undo the last 20 times I've tried
to install updates to find the "patch" that doesn't work. Why doesn't
Microsoft have a real customer support center? At this point my pc boots
but rebooting is a crap shoot. Vista is taking valuable time away from
me and my work, and frankly I'm close to just wiping this very fast box
clean and installing XP Pro. I hope the people who got laid off at MS
are the lame programmers who screwed the pooch with Vista. Windows 7 is
obviously what Vista was supposed to be. It better be a free upgrade or
I'm jumping ship.


--
Frustrated User
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frustrated User's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/members/frustrated-user.htm
View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/1087073.htm

http://forums.techarena.in


Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
..NET string.Split("::") Bug With Duplicate Delimiters
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials...ngsplit-b.aspx

Same position about responding to a year-old thread? Start a new thread with
a description of your problem and system configuration and someone can try
to help you.

--
Patrick P.
www.boydcomputersvcs.com

"Paul Tolhurst" wrote in message news:...
> I have found myself in the same position, unfortunately I don't have a
> system restore point on my computer. Now as a result can't get windows
> running again any thoughts on how I can get around this?
>
>
>
> Thalado wrote:
>
> A patch is preventing the system from starting. - Which one?
> 13-Dec-08
>
> So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista
> x64
> Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
> update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
> problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't
> open
> or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into
> safe
> mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..
>
> So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
> the log shows
>
> Root cause found:
> ---------------------------
> A patch is preventing the system from starting.
>
> Repair action: System Restore
> Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
> Time taken = 144676 ms
>
> My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
> to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how
> do I
> tell which patch prevented my system from starting?
>
> Previous Posts In This Thread:
>
> On Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:01 AM
> Thalado wrote:
>
> A patch is preventing the system from starting. - Which one?
> So I am a good techie and patch my system regularly. I am running Vista
> x64
> Ultimate SP1. Up until a few weeks ago no problem. I log on and windows
> update says I have xx patches to install. I install and reboot and the
> problems began. When I would try and open MMC, Explorer, IE it wouldn't
> open
> or I would get a "Cannot create blank document" error. Tried to go into
> safe
> mode, blue screen..Things kept getting worse until I got Stop errors..
>
> So I get my Vista DVD and do a repair. It goes through and towards the end
> the log shows
>
> Root cause found:
> ---------------------------
> A patch is preventing the system from starting.
>
> Repair action: System Restore
> Result: Completed successfully. Error code = 0x0
> Time taken = 144676 ms
>
> My OS is back to working.. BUT, Windows update now shows I have 14 patches
> to install. You can believe me I am not installing anything now. So, how
> do I
> tell which patch prevented my system from starting?
>
> On Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:14 AM
> Mark L. Ferguson wrote:
>
> You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
> patches.
> You are probably using a hardware driver that can't handle one of the
> patches. About your only choices are stop using the driver or the patch.
> You
> can easily select one patch at a time to test, using system restore to go
> back on failure. "Safe Mode With Command Prompt" will accept the command:
>
> %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe
>
> You can also try to detect the problem using the error reporting available
> in the Windows Update app. When you 'view update history' you get a link
> to
> troubleshooting help.
>
> If an error has occurred, it will be displayed with an error code that you
> can use to search online for help.
>
>
>
> --
> Use the "Ratings" feature. It helps the new users.
> Please use the Communities guidelines when posting.
> http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...help_en-us.htm
> Mark L. Ferguson MS-MVP
> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Mark.Ferguson
>
> "Thalador" <> wrote in message
> news:B2ED7C35-6BF8-463A-AEBA-...
>
> On Monday, December 15, 2008 11:36 AM
> Thalado wrote:
>
> So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
> So even though the OS knew that a patch was preventing the system from
> starting, it can't tell me which? This seems absurd to me. You advice
> tells
> me to redo each patch, reboot and hope it doesnt blow up. While it may be
> an
> answer, I was hoping I can determine which one is the problem
>
> "Mark L. Ferguson" wrote:
>
> On Monday, December 15, 2008 2:19 PM
> Colton wrote:
>
> Thalador, Some times you have to do outrageous things in order to find
> out
> Thalador,
>
> Some times you have to do outrageous things in order to find out what
> is
> going wrong. Even if this does mean having to install or remove and then
> restart over and over. The only way you're going to find out anything
> specific is if the Windows failure leaves you an error file that you can
> catch some information from. You said that it can't tell you what is
> failing, so this is probably a lost cause; forcing you to return to the
> only
> thing that will work, and that is trial and error. Unfortunately, computer
> problems aren't always click and fix, as I'm sure you know. If not, you
> will
> learn soon enough, lol.
>
> Sorry that you are having this problem, bud. The only thing that I can
> tell
> you to help you any farther is to check the updates that you are
> installing
> before you install them. Make sure they are compatible with your system
> and
> devices before you install it. I've had a couple of updates that had my
> computer crippled for months, but are no longer an issue thanks to
> reformatting and watching what I installed. The only way you will be able
> to
> tell what patch (aka update) is effecting your system, you should do what
> Mike advised, and try installing them one by one. Maybe two by two, so you
> can move a bit faster, as I know there can be a lot.
>
> --
>
> Colton, PHP/VB6/HTML/CSS/Javscript/IIS/Apache
> OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1
>
> - http://explosion.debug-inc.com
> -
>
>
> "Thalador" <> wrote in message
> news:29852A44-1AF6-4A54-8452-...
>
> On Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:34 PM
> Frustrated User wrote:
>
> I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone.
> I have been getting the same error so the original poster is not alone.
> I am using Vista Premium 64bit with a Core i7 and 9 gigs of ram. I
> cannot update anything because it gets rolled back. I cannot believe
> that with 5+ years of programming creating Vista; debugging, unit
> testing, QA'ing that Microsoft did and they cannot match an error to a
> patch. I have only had this thing since Xmas so it can only be one of
> about 20 things.
>
> You say I might have some hardware that cannot handle the patch? Well
> I've looked through every device driver and see no problem except the
> 6to4 ipv6 fiasco that thousands of people have. I've disabled ipv6.
>
> This is unacceptable and the reason many people are jumping ship for
> Macs because most of the time, they just work, period. I have a
> compatibility problem with a Microsoft Laser Mouse 5000 forcing me to
> NOT even be able to use Aero.
>
> There is no way on Earth I'm going to undo the last 20 times I've tried
> to install updates to find the "patch" that doesn't work. Why doesn't
> Microsoft have a real customer support center? At this point my pc boots
> but rebooting is a crap shoot. Vista is taking valuable time away from
> me and my work, and frankly I'm close to just wiping this very fast box
> clean and installing XP Pro. I hope the people who got laid off at MS
> are the lame programmers who screwed the pooch with Vista. Windows 7 is
> obviously what Vista was supposed to be. It better be a free upgrade or
> I'm jumping ship.
>
>
> --
> Frustrated User
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Frustrated User's Profile:
> http://forums.techarena.in/members/frustrated-user.htm
> View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/1087073.htm
>
> http://forums.techarena.in
>
>
> Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
> .NET string.Split("::") Bug With Duplicate Delimiters
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorials...ngsplit-b.aspx

"Paul Tolhurst" wrote in message news:...
> I have found myself in the same position,

Please do NOT change the subject line.

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