"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it with XP?'"

http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+p...html.alert.hed

David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version of
Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
advertising since it came out six months ago.

He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for
balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that
connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't communicate
with the PC properly.

"Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
market research firm IDC.

Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
major upgrade to the Windows operating system.

To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with
the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and retailers
to give the older operating system more room in their product lines.

Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web
sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.

Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.

The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
help from strong Vista sales.

Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly
all software and hardware is compatible.

Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
upgrades. Consumers have taken note.

Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it
was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the
software.

"People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it
with XP?'" he said.

Testing users' comfort level
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to
buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.

"XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said Jon
Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon start
supporting Vista.

Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.

Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does not
carry XP machines.

The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
uncomfortable.

"My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers running
XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to work," said WUG
vice president Joel Diamond.

Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other companies
to solve any problems.

"There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."

He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
"unfavorable," with the rest neutral.

What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners and
other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000 software
programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail titles, he
says.

But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional that
works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay $199 for
an upgrade.

Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
linking to PCs is also incompatible.

Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.

"We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
"Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."

And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..

Your point is?


"carl feredeck" <> wrote in message
news:46a0c4b4$...
> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+p...html.alert.hed
>
> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version
> of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
> advertising since it came out six months ago.
>
> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken for
> balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program that
> connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't
> communicate with the PC properly.
>
> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
> market research firm IDC.
>
> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.
>
> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped with
> the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and
> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product
> lines.
>
> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their Web
> sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped machines.
>
> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
> compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.
>
> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
> help from strong Vista sales.
>
> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that nearly
> all software and hardware is compatible.
>
> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.
>
> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after it
> was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with the
> software.
>
> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace it
> with XP?'" he said.
>
> Testing users' comfort level
> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen to
> buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.
>
> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said
> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon
> start supporting Vista.
>
> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
> something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.
>
> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does
> not carry XP machines.
>
> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
> uncomfortable.
>
> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers
> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to
> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.
>
> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other
> companies to solve any problems.
>
> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."
>
> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.
>
> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners
> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000
> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail
> titles, he says.
>
> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional
> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay
> $199 for an upgrade.
>
> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
> linking to PCs is also incompatible.
>
> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.
>
> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."
>
>
>
>
>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

No no no.. that is not a good analogy.

A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe was
crap!
The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.

I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted 98
back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!
And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them strangly
in the eye looking for signs of insanity!


"Mike Hall - MVP" <> wrote in message
news:upN%...
> And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..
>
> Your point is?
>
>
> "carl feredeck" <> wrote in message
> news:46a0c4b4$...
>> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+p...html.alert.hed
>>
>> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new version
>> of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of dollars
>> advertising since it came out six months ago.
>>
>> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken
>> for balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program
>> that connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't
>> communicate with the PC properly.
>>
>> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst with
>> market research firm IDC.
>>
>> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
>> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.
>>
>> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped
>> with the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and
>> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product
>> lines.
>>
>> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their
>> Web sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped
>> machines.
>>
>> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making it
>> compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.
>>
>> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
>> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
>> help from strong Vista sales.
>>
>> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that
>> nearly all software and hardware is compatible.
>>
>> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
>> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.
>>
>> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
>> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after
>> it was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with
>> the software.
>>
>> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace
>> it with XP?'" he said.
>>
>> Testing users' comfort level
>> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen
>> to buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.
>>
>> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said
>> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon
>> start supporting Vista.
>>
>> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP machines,
>> something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school sales season.
>>
>> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does
>> not carry XP machines.
>>
>> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
>> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
>> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
>> uncomfortable.
>>
>> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers
>> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to
>> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.
>>
>> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other
>> companies to solve any problems.
>>
>> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
>> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
>> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."
>>
>> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
>> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.
>>
>> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners
>> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000
>> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail
>> titles, he says.
>>
>> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional
>> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay
>> $199 for an upgrade.
>>
>> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
>> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
>> linking to PCs is also incompatible.
>>
>> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.
>>
>> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
>> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>

Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
market penetration.
Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.
Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and
hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use
for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure
and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.
No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,
including ME.
The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities
negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end
components. This is beta level performance.
Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and low
end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane price
of Vista.

The problem for you is that the analogy does not support what you want it to
support.. like it or not, there were more than a few who wanted 98 in place
of XP.. for the same reasons too.. don't like the look, can't find anything,
nothing works..


"carl feredeck" <> wrote in message
news:...
> No no no.. that is not a good analogy.
>
> A good analogy is that windows Me users wanted win98 back because WinMe
> was crap!
> The same thing is happening with winXP and Vista now.
>
> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted
> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!
> And if someone would ask for such a change then.. I would look them
> strangly in the eye looking for signs of insanity!
>
>
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <> wrote in message
> news:upN%...
>> And when XP was released, some came back and asked for Windows 98..
>>
>> Your point is?
>>
>>
>> "carl feredeck" <> wrote in message
>> news:46a0c4b4$...
>>> http://news.com.com/Vistas+growing+p...html.alert.hed
>>>
>>> David Daoud ran into trouble when he started using Vista, the new
>>> version of Windows that Microsoft and PC makers have spent millions of
>>> dollars advertising since it came out six months ago.
>>>
>>> He said it short-circuited key software programs he counts on: Quicken
>>> for balancing his checkbook, Lotus Notes e-mail and a networking program
>>> that connects his home to the office. His Sony camcorder also doesn't
>>> communicate with the PC properly.
>>>
>>> "Basically they don't work," said Daoud, a computer industry analyst
>>> with market research firm IDC.
>>>
>>> Such problems are part of the normal growing pains that come with every
>>> major upgrade to the Windows operating system.
>>>
>>> To ease those pains, some consumers are seeking out machines equipped
>>> with the more compatible Windows XP. That's prompted some PC makers and
>>> retailers to give the older operating system more room in their product
>>> lines.
>>>
>>> Hewlett-Packard and Dell recently started selling XP machines on their
>>> Web sites. Lenovo Group and Toshiba also offer similarly equipped
>>> machines.
>>>
>>> Microsoft has done its best to get Vista off to a strong start, making
>>> it compatible with more than 2 million different types of hardware.
>>>
>>> The effort seems to be paying off. The company late on Thursday reported
>>> quarterly revenue of $13.4 billion, up 13 percent from last year, citing
>>> help from strong Vista sales.
>>>
>>> Microsoft says most people using Vista are pleased with it and that
>>> nearly all software and hardware is compatible.
>>>
>>> Still, some companies have been slow to respond to Microsoft's call for
>>> upgrades. Consumers have taken note.
>>>
>>> Craig Rabe, owner of the Computer Cafe, an independent computer store in
>>> Arlington, Mass., says he received so many complaints about Vista after
>>> it was launched in February that he stopped selling machines loaded with
>>> the software.
>>>
>>> "People came back and said, 'Please, will you take this off and replace
>>> it with XP?'" he said.
>>>
>>> Testing users' comfort level
>>> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology is advising incoming freshmen
>>> to buy PCs loaded with Windows XP.
>>>
>>> "XP is still fully functional. It's what people are familiar with," said
>>> Jon Hunt, who made the decision for MIT. But he expects MIT will soon
>>> start supporting Vista.
>>>
>>> Among retailers, CompUSA says it has the widest selection of XP
>>> machines, something it plans to tout during the busy back-to-school
>>> sales season.
>>>
>>> Circuit City Stores offers nine XP models on its Web site. Best Buy does
>>> not carry XP machines.
>>>
>>> The Windows User Group says Vista is an "awesome" system and all of its
>>> employees use it. But the company, which provides technical advice on
>>> Windows and runs online communities, cautions that the switch can be
>>> uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> "My father-in-law, my niece, my accountant--they all have computers
>>> running XP now. If they put Vista on top, not everything is going to
>>> work," said WUG vice president Joel Diamond.
>>>
>>> Microsoft says it has put a lot of effort into working with other
>>> companies to solve any problems.
>>>
>>> "There are some products that don't work with it," said Windows group
>>> product manager Justin Jed. "But ... the data shows louder than the
>>> anecdotes that people are having a great experience with Windows Vista."
>>>
>>> He says 72 percent of users have a "favorable" view of Vista, 8 percent
>>> "unfavorable," with the rest neutral.
>>>
>>> What's more, about 96 percent of all printers, keyboards, mice, scanners
>>> and other devices in use are compatible with Vista, as are about 2,000
>>> software programs, including 49 of the current 50 best-selling retail
>>> titles, he says.
>>>
>>> But while Adobe recently introduced a version of Photoshop professional
>>> that works with Vista, customers with the previous edition have to pay
>>> $199 for an upgrade.
>>>
>>> Norton SystemWorks, a $70 security program, has yet to be made Vista
>>> compatible though the company says it is in the works. TiVo software for
>>> linking to PCs is also incompatible.
>>>
>>> Microsoft declined to comment on specific problems.
>>>
>>> "We are going after the ones that impact the most customers," Jed said.
>>> "Obviously you cannot be all things to all people."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mike Hall
>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

>Vista should be released only for Mac hardware

Haha now thats a first.. but what you say is logical..
also another thing you could say that you should use it only with microsoft
*updated* software.


"babaloo" <> wrote in message
news:y34oi.12061$. net...
> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
> market penetration.
> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.
> Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and
> hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use
> for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP
> infrastructure and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.
> No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,
> including ME.
> The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities
> negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end
> components. This is beta level performance.
> Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and
> low end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane
> price of Vista.
>

Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition.. mission
critical operations require absolute stability and compatibility.. nothing
has changed over the years.. there is no argument here.. never has been..


"babaloo" <> wrote in message
news:y34oi.12061$. net...
> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
> market penetration.
> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.
> Vista remains slow, incompatible with a wide variety of software and
> hardware configurations, lousy for multimedia and games, impossible to use
> for high end graphics, difficult to network with existing XP
> infrastructure and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.
> No other Microsoft OS has been so unusable at the time of its release,
> including ME.
> The absolute slowness of Vista across the board in all file activities
> negates the premium an individual buyer is paying for with top end
> components. This is beta level performance.
> Vista should be released only for Mac hardware: Macs only use middle and
> low end gear anyway and sell at premium prices comparable to the insane
> price of Vista.
>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Just because vista has a flashy theme doesnt make it better technology. It
doesnt really have much more to offer. Sorry.

I like new software... there is only one acception from all the software I
have ever used in my life. Vista.
Vista is new but it is so bad that even though my habbits are to always have
the latest and greatest,
vistas poor quality made me change that. I mean I can put up with a lot of
crap.. but I also have to get things done!


"Mike" <> wrote in message
news:13435D14-461A-4E18-B8B3-...
> "carl feredeck" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> I dont know anyone from my experience that went from 98 to XP and wanted
>> 98 back! Win98 was horrid compared to XP!
>
> Then you don't know many people.
>
> Most people are naturally resistant to change. They don't like "new"
> when they are comfortable with "old and familiar". In a few years time
> people will look back at XP and think "I used to actually *use* this?" I
> thought that about Windows 2000 a few years ago, and am quickly starting
> to feel that way about XP.
>
> Mike
>

babaloo wrote:

> Just because less than sophisticated buyers of individual PCs that come
> loaded with Vista are forced to get Vista does not mean Vista has real
> market penetration.

On, so you're in the market survey business?

> Most large companies and the federal government are not adopting Vista and
> have no plans or reason to do so, and this is the real computer market.

Rollouts in large companies won't happen until most of the employees are
using Vista at home. This in effect, save the company from disarray and
saves the IT's ass. Vista is not XP + eye candy. It is a new learning
experience.

> Vista remains slow,

Not if you have the proper hardware...

incompatible with a wide variety of software and
> hardware configurations,

Hummmm...name the "wide variety" of software/hardware it's
incompatibility with, ok...


lousy for multimedia and games,

Games I don't know but we have no problem with multimedia...


impossible to use for high end graphics,

Ut oh...bullsh*t...just lost your credibility...not true and you have no
idea what you're talking about...

difficult to network with existing XP infrastructure
> and no more secure than XP in any way, shape or form.

Now you've shoved your ignorant head way up your arse....
Nah...you're not even close to being right.
Obviously, you've never used Vista Ultimate on a correctly configured
machine.
Get lost fool.
Frank

"Mike Hall - MVP" <> wrote in message
news:%23QFSi$...
> Points that you made equally applied to the W2K-XP transition..

I get the impression that some of these people here whining about Vista are
too young to remember that. They apparently grew up with XP and it's all
they know.

At least they certainly give that impression with their "It's too big, too
bloated, too much eye candy, too incompatible with existing apps/hardware,
no drivers" and on and on and on.

We heard ALL of this at XP's launch, and at 2000's launch, and at NT 4's
launch, and at NT 3.1's launch.

Mike