Possible to get rid of without rebuilding everything?

Hi all,

Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
and servers are on the child domain.

Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
is this possible without affecting our applications
(exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
empty root domain?

Thank you!

You are stuck with the root domain forever. Root domain is no longer
considered a best practice, the fewer domains the better.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
"ed" <> wrote in message
news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
> Hi all,
>
> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> and servers are on the child domain.
>
> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
> is this possible without affecting our applications
> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
> empty root domain?
>
> Thank you!

Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008

Do a normal Domain Migration.

Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.

Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.

The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
Exchange.

The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
stretching it out too rediculasly long.

Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.

In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
forced to do.


--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"ed" <> wrote in message
news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
> Hi all,
>
> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> and servers are on the child domain.
>
> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
> is this possible without affecting our applications
> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
> empty root domain?
>
> Thank you!

Thank you for your help.

That's what I thought and that's the design that the consultant did for us
years agao.

If we need to get rid of the empty root, domain, that means we need to
rebuild everything (servers and users etc...), right?



"Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" wrote:

> You are stuck with the root domain forever. Root domain is no longer
> considered a best practice, the fewer domains the better.
>
> --
> Paul Bergson
> MVP - Directory Services
> MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
> MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
> 2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
> Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009
>
> http://www.pbbergs.com
>
> Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
> posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
> "ed" <> wrote in message
> news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> > and servers are on the child domain.
> >
> > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
> > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
> > is this possible without affecting our applications
> > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
> > empty root domain?
> >
> > Thank you!
>
>
> .
>

I would agree with Phillip and start over with a new domain and migrate, if
you have the time and resources.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
"Phillip Windell" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
>
> Do a normal Domain Migration.
>
> Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
>
> Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
>
> The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
> use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
> Exchange.
>
> The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
> stretching it out too rediculasly long.
>
> Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
> the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take
> you time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until
> then the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything
> yet.
>
> In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after
> begining it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than
> you are forced to do.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "ed" <> wrote in message
> news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
>> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
>> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
>> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
>> and servers are on the child domain.
>>
>> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
>> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
>> is this possible without affecting our applications
>> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
>> empty root domain?
>>
>> Thank you!
>
>

The other option is to colapse the child into the root domain.
Occasionaly an intraforest migration can be better than an interforest.

How well do you like the root domain namespace?


>Paul Bergson [MVP-DS] wrote:
> I would agree with Phillip and start over with a new domain and
> migrate, if you have the time and resources.
>
>
> Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
> posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
> rights. "Phillip Windell" <> wrote in message
> news:%...
>> Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
>>
>> Do a normal Domain Migration.
>>
>> Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
>>
>> Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
>>
>> The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to
>> know to use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing
>> Server Method for Exchange.
>>
>> The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
>> stretching it out too rediculasly long.
>>
>> Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot
>> after the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you
>> can take you time with it up to the point just before you use
>> Exmerge because until then the "swing server exchange" is not really
>> being used for anything yet.
>>
>> In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after
>> begining it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any
>> longer than you are forced to do.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Phillip Windell
>>
>> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
>> Microsoft,
>> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> "ed" <> wrote in message
>> news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
>>> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
>>> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
>>> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
>>> and servers are on the child domain.
>>>
>>> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
>>> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
>>> is this possible without affecting our applications
>>> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
>>> empty root domain?
>>>
>>> Thank you!

--
/kj

Thanks for your help.

If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What about
our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
application we need to reinstall also.
Definitely, we have downtime.

I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.

thank you.

"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
>
> Do a normal Domain Migration.
>
> Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
>
> Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
>
> The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
> use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
> Exchange.
>
> The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
> stretching it out too rediculasly long.
>
> Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
> the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
> time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
> the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.
>
> In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
> it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
> forced to do.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "ed" <> wrote in message
> news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> > and servers are on the child domain.
> >
> > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
> > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
> > is this possible without affecting our applications
> > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
> > empty root domain?
> >
> > Thank you!
>
>
> .
>

Thanks for your help.

If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What about
our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
application we need to reinstall also.
Definitely, we have downtime.

I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.

thank you.




















































































"Phillip Windell" wrote:

> Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
>
> Do a normal Domain Migration.
>
> Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
>
> Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
>
> The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
> use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
> Exchange.
>
> The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
> stretching it out too rediculasly long.
>
> Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
> the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
> time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
> the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.
>
> In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
> it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
> forced to do.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "ed" <> wrote in message
> news:63F05396-4E35-48D2-A08E-...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> > and servers are on the child domain.
> >
> > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
> > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
> > is this possible without affecting our applications
> > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
> > empty root domain?
> >
> > Thank you!
>
>
> .
>

"ed" <> wrote in message
news:9EA08C07-4E20-486B-9509-...
> Thanks for your help.
>
> If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What
> about
> our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
> servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
> seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
> re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
> have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
> application we need to reinstall also.
> Definitely, we have downtime.
>
> I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.
>
> thank you.
>
>


That depends on the version of Exchange currently running, and going to. Can
you describe the Exchange installation in more detail, such as version, how
many, if installed on a DC, and which version you want to go to?

You can also opt to use the Exmerge tool 2-step method. Step 1, export to
PST, and Step 2, import from the PSTs. This assumed ADMT was used to migrate
the users first into the new forest. It uses the Exchange Alias to match the
PST names. Public FOlders are migrated using PST method. You can spend some
money on third party tools too, such as from Quest, to make it easier.

As for AD, I agree with the others it will be beneficial to start from
scratch.

--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit among
responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your resolution.

Ace Fekay, MVP, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE &
MCSA 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
Microsoft Certified Trainer
Microsoft MVP - Directory Services

If you feel this is an urgent issue and require immediate assistance, please
contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check http://support.microsoft.com
for regional support phone numbers.

Hello ed,

Without a complete migration with ADMT you cannot get rid of the empty root
domain, so you have to keep it or migrate. I prefer the latter. Are there
any other applications then Exchange and which version is used, also from
Exchange?

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


> Hi all,
>
> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
> and servers are on the child domain.
> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008 DCs. If we need to
> get rid of the empty root domain. is this possible without affecting
> our applications (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep
> this empty root domain?
>
> Thank you!
>