Problems With RAID Getting Degradded

I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It is not a
heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could have just 4 people
logged on at the same time. I recently had what I thought was a HD failure
because the server seemed to loose network connectivity so I went to logon
to the server desktop and could not because I could not get the logon screen
to come up. The mouse moved but that was it. I then powered the system down
by holding the power button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and
seen there had been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to
purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the original
RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed the OS (SBS 2003
SP1) and let it run for a few days with out getting it completely updated
with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted quickly and didn't freeze or
become unresponsive during that time. At that point I had not set up any
Users or Computers because I wanted to see how everything was going to run.
After a few days I did a restore of one of my backups. After the restore
completed and the server restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and
that was it. I gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying
computer settings. I then powered the system down "held the power button in"
and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time the RAID had been
degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my question would be is there a
service that is trashing the RAID that is not in the clean install that
anyone may be aware of ? The days before this all started there had been not
updates of any kind for Windows applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to
be very much like the problem with PowerChute Business Edition which needed
updated a few years back because of an outdated certificate I believe only
this seems to cause RAID problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and
then boot again into Safe Mode and see that the array is ok.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

Jeff

It could be the card, what RAID card are you running?

In addition:
How much Memory do you have on the SBS?
(with Patches and everything 4GB is about the min for SBS2003 now)

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
Remote Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
Easy Redirect to Microsoft's New SBS Public Forum - www.SBSRepair.com

"Jeff Teel" <jdteel@RMoveThis sugardog.com> wrote in message
news:...
> I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It is not
> a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could have just 4
> people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I thought was a HD
> failure because the server seemed to loose network connectivity so I went
> to logon to the server desktop and could not because I could not get the
> logon screen to come up. The mouse moved but that was it. I then powered
> the system down by holding the power button in and restarted in safe mode,
> opened RSM and seen there had been a drive failure reported in the event
> log. I decided to purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger
> because the original RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean
> installed the OS (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out
> getting it completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted
> quickly and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that time. At that
> point I had not set up any Users or Computers because I wanted to see how
> everything was going to run. After a few days I did a restore of one of my
> backups. After the restore completed and the server restarted it got to
> Applying Computer Settings and that was it. I gave it a good two hours but
> it did not get past applying computer settings. I then powered the system
> down "held the power button in" and restarted in safe mode but during the
> BIOS boot time the RAID had been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I
> guess my question would be is there a service that is trashing the RAID
> that is not in the clean install that anyone may be aware of ? The days
> before this all started there had been not updates of any kind for Windows
> applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much like the problem
> with PowerChute Business Edition which needed updated a few years back
> because of an outdated certificate I believe only this seems to cause RAID
> problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and then boot again into Safe
> Mode and see that the array is ok.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
>
> Jeff
>

What sort of backup did you restore? Was it just data or an older full
backup? If it was full did you boot up in DSRM mode first (if not, that may
explain the large delay if you had NIC issues).

Your RAID may have become degraded simply due to hitting the power button.

--
Allan Williams




Jeff Teel wrote:
> I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It
> is not a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could
> have just 4 people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I
> thought was a HD failure because the server seemed to loose network
> connectivity so I went to logon to the server desktop and could not
> because I could not get the logon screen to come up. The mouse moved
> but that was it. I then powered the system down by holding the power
> button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and seen there had
> been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to purchase
> two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the original
> RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed the OS
> (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out getting it
> completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted quickly
> and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that time. At that
> point I had not set up any Users or Computers because I wanted to see
> how everything was going to run. After a few days I did a restore of
> one of my backups. After the restore completed and the server
> restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and that was it. I
> gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying computer
> settings. I then powered the system down "held the power button in"
> and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time the RAID had
> been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my question would be
> is there a service that is trashing the RAID that is not in the clean
> install that anyone may be aware of ? The days before this all
> started there had been not updates of any kind for Windows applied.
> Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much like the problem
> with PowerChute Business Edition which needed updated a few years
> back because of an outdated certificate I believe only this seems to
> cause RAID problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and then boot
> again into Safe Mode and see that the array is ok.
> Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
>
> Jeff

My restore was a full OS backup done with the SBS backup program. I moved the
backup to the server D drive to do the restore. I booted into the Restore
Active Directory optition to do that.

The degradding of the array happens before I had to "kill" the OS.

Thanks
Jeff



"Al Williams" wrote:

> What sort of backup did you restore? Was it just data or an older full
> backup? If it was full did you boot up in DSRM mode first (if not, that may
> explain the large delay if you had NIC issues).
>
> Your RAID may have become degraded simply due to hitting the power button.
>
> --
> Allan Williams
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Teel wrote:
> > I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It
> > is not a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could
> > have just 4 people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I
> > thought was a HD failure because the server seemed to loose network
> > connectivity so I went to logon to the server desktop and could not
> > because I could not get the logon screen to come up. The mouse moved
> > but that was it. I then powered the system down by holding the power
> > button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and seen there had
> > been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to purchase
> > two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the original
> > RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed the OS
> > (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out getting it
> > completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted quickly
> > and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that time. At that
> > point I had not set up any Users or Computers because I wanted to see
> > how everything was going to run. After a few days I did a restore of
> > one of my backups. After the restore completed and the server
> > restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and that was it. I
> > gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying computer
> > settings. I then powered the system down "held the power button in"
> > and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time the RAID had
> > been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my question would be
> > is there a service that is trashing the RAID that is not in the clean
> > install that anyone may be aware of ? The days before this all
> > started there had been not updates of any kind for Windows applied.
> > Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much like the problem
> > with PowerChute Business Edition which needed updated a few years
> > back because of an outdated certificate I believe only this seems to
> > cause RAID problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and then boot
> > again into Safe Mode and see that the array is ok.
> > Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
> >
> > Jeff
>
>
> .
>

It is an onboard CERC 1.5/2 Adaptec controller. As for memory it just has two
GB so I guess that may be an avenue to look at too. It's really an eye opener
loading a clean install of SBS 2003 SP1 and see that it only takes around 5GB
of HD space!

On another note my Exchange mailboxes only total around 500 MB. I don't know
if that would tie in with space issues regarding memory or not. But there is
no doubt that the system will function with a clean install of SBS 2003 SP1,
WSUS 3 SP2, ISA 2004. It's just hard to narrow down what causes it to hang
before it gets to the logon screen.

Thanks a bunch for your input Russ

"Russ (SBITS.Biz) [SBS-MVP]" wrote:

> It could be the card, what RAID card are you running?
>
> In addition:
> How much Memory do you have on the SBS?
> (with Patches and everything 4GB is about the min for SBS2003 now)
>
> Russ
>
> --
> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
> Remote Small Business Server/Computer Support - www.SBITS.Biz
> BPOS - Microsoft Online Services - www.BPOSMadeEasy.com
> Easy Redirect to Microsoft's New SBS Public Forum - www.SBSRepair.com
>
> "Jeff Teel" <jdteel@RMoveThis sugardog.com> wrote in message
> news:...
> > I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It is not
> > a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could have just 4
> > people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I thought was a HD
> > failure because the server seemed to loose network connectivity so I went
> > to logon to the server desktop and could not because I could not get the
> > logon screen to come up. The mouse moved but that was it. I then powered
> > the system down by holding the power button in and restarted in safe mode,
> > opened RSM and seen there had been a drive failure reported in the event
> > log. I decided to purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger
> > because the original RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean
> > installed the OS (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out
> > getting it completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted
> > quickly and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that time. At that
> > point I had not set up any Users or Computers because I wanted to see how
> > everything was going to run. After a few days I did a restore of one of my
> > backups. After the restore completed and the server restarted it got to
> > Applying Computer Settings and that was it. I gave it a good two hours but
> > it did not get past applying computer settings. I then powered the system
> > down "held the power button in" and restarted in safe mode but during the
> > BIOS boot time the RAID had been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I
> > guess my question would be is there a service that is trashing the RAID
> > that is not in the clean install that anyone may be aware of ? The days
> > before this all started there had been not updates of any kind for Windows
> > applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much like the problem
> > with PowerChute Business Edition which needed updated a few years back
> > because of an outdated certificate I believe only this seems to cause RAID
> > problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and then boot again into Safe
> > Mode and see that the array is ok.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
> >
> > Jeff
> >

I would look at the drive cables - I've seen issues with flakey SATA cables
especially. Also verify you are running the latest RAID drivers. The
firmware on the drvies themselves can also be an issue, so maybe check that
as well (Seagate had a problem a few years back).

--
Allan Williams




JT wrote:
> My restore was a full OS backup done with the SBS backup program. I
> moved the backup to the server D drive to do the restore. I booted
> into the Restore Active Directory optition to do that.
>
> The degradding of the array happens before I had to "kill" the OS.
>
> Thanks
> Jeff
>
>
>
> "Al Williams" wrote:
>
>> What sort of backup did you restore? Was it just data or an older
>> full backup? If it was full did you boot up in DSRM mode first (if
>> not, that may explain the large delay if you had NIC issues).
>>
>> Your RAID may have become degraded simply due to hitting the power
>> button.
>>
>> --
>> Allan Williams
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Teel wrote:
>>> I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It
>>> is not a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could
>>> have just 4 people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I
>>> thought was a HD failure because the server seemed to loose network
>>> connectivity so I went to logon to the server desktop and could not
>>> because I could not get the logon screen to come up. The mouse moved
>>> but that was it. I then powered the system down by holding the power
>>> button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and seen there had
>>> been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to
>>> purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the
>>> original RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed
>>> the OS (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out
>>> getting it completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It
>>> booted quickly and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that
>>> time. At that point I had not set up any Users or Computers because
>>> I wanted to see how everything was going to run. After a few days I
>>> did a restore of one of my backups. After the restore completed and
>>> the server restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and that
>>> was it. I gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying
>>> computer settings. I then powered the system down "held the power
>>> button in" and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time
>>> the RAID had been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my
>>> question would be is there a service that is trashing the RAID that
>>> is not in the clean install that anyone may be aware of ? The days
>>> before this all started there had been not updates of any kind for
>>> Windows applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much
>>> like the problem with PowerChute Business Edition which needed
>>> updated a few years back because of an outdated certificate I
>>> believe only this seems to cause RAID problems too. I am able to
>>> rebuild the RAID and then boot again into Safe Mode and see that
>>> the array is ok.
>>> Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> .

When I put the new drives in I used the new cables that came with them so I
would hope that they would be good! There is always a chance one could be bad
but I am able to repair "I think that's the correct term" the RAID and it
works fine with the clean install but then when I restore the backup of the
OS thats when things go bad. The two new drives are Seagate drives so I will
check the firmware on them though as well as the drivers.

Thanks
Jeff

"Al Williams" wrote:

> I would look at the drive cables - I've seen issues with flakey SATA cables
> especially. Also verify you are running the latest RAID drivers. The
> firmware on the drvies themselves can also be an issue, so maybe check that
> as well (Seagate had a problem a few years back).
>
> --
> Allan Williams
>
>
>
>
> JT wrote:
> > My restore was a full OS backup done with the SBS backup program. I
> > moved the backup to the server D drive to do the restore. I booted
> > into the Restore Active Directory optition to do that.
> >
> > The degradding of the array happens before I had to "kill" the OS.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > "Al Williams" wrote:
> >
> >> What sort of backup did you restore? Was it just data or an older
> >> full backup? If it was full did you boot up in DSRM mode first (if
> >> not, that may explain the large delay if you had NIC issues).
> >>
> >> Your RAID may have become degraded simply due to hitting the power
> >> button.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Allan Williams
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jeff Teel wrote:
> >>> I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It
> >>> is not a heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could
> >>> have just 4 people logged on at the same time. I recently had what I
> >>> thought was a HD failure because the server seemed to loose network
> >>> connectivity so I went to logon to the server desktop and could not
> >>> because I could not get the logon screen to come up. The mouse moved
> >>> but that was it. I then powered the system down by holding the power
> >>> button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and seen there had
> >>> been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to
> >>> purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the
> >>> original RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed
> >>> the OS (SBS 2003 SP1) and let it run for a few days with out
> >>> getting it completely updated with MS updates and it ran fine. It
> >>> booted quickly and didn't freeze or become unresponsive during that
> >>> time. At that point I had not set up any Users or Computers because
> >>> I wanted to see how everything was going to run. After a few days I
> >>> did a restore of one of my backups. After the restore completed and
> >>> the server restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and that
> >>> was it. I gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying
> >>> computer settings. I then powered the system down "held the power
> >>> button in" and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time
> >>> the RAID had been degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my
> >>> question would be is there a service that is trashing the RAID that
> >>> is not in the clean install that anyone may be aware of ? The days
> >>> before this all started there had been not updates of any kind for
> >>> Windows applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to be very much
> >>> like the problem with PowerChute Business Edition which needed
> >>> updated a few years back because of an outdated certificate I
> >>> believe only this seems to cause RAID problems too. I am able to
> >>> rebuild the RAID and then boot again into Safe Mode and see that
> >>> the array is ok.
> >>> Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >> .
>
>
> .
>

I updated the RAID driver which allowed me to boot into directory services
restore mode (I was not able to do that before the driver update but was able
to get into Safe Mode). I found a Service that was going crazy (SharePoint
Timer) so I disabled it and then attempted to boot normally. The server
booted quickly and made it to the Desktop logon and sofar it seems like it is
stable. I am leaving it sit for a few hours to see how it does and then go
about restoring the Exchange data and other data files. I'll let you know
what happens.

Thanks for everyone's suggeations.

Jeff

"Jeff Teel" wrote:

> I have a Dell Poweredge SC 1420 that has SBS 2003 running on it. It is not a
> heavy use machine and has just 5 users that at most could have just 4 people
> logged on at the same time. I recently had what I thought was a HD failure
> because the server seemed to loose network connectivity so I went to logon
> to the server desktop and could not because I could not get the logon screen
> to come up. The mouse moved but that was it. I then powered the system down
> by holding the power button in and restarted in safe mode, opened RSM and
> seen there had been a drive failure reported in the event log. I decided to
> purchase two new drives and make the C partition bigger because the original
> RAID 1 config only had a 20GB partition. I clean installed the OS (SBS 2003
> SP1) and let it run for a few days with out getting it completely updated
> with MS updates and it ran fine. It booted quickly and didn't freeze or
> become unresponsive during that time. At that point I had not set up any
> Users or Computers because I wanted to see how everything was going to run.
> After a few days I did a restore of one of my backups. After the restore
> completed and the server restarted it got to Applying Computer Settings and
> that was it. I gave it a good two hours but it did not get past applying
> computer settings. I then powered the system down "held the power button in"
> and restarted in safe mode but during the BIOS boot time the RAID had been
> degraded. Both drives were optimal. I guess my question would be is there a
> service that is trashing the RAID that is not in the clean install that
> anyone may be aware of ? The days before this all started there had been not
> updates of any kind for Windows applied. Only Trend definitions. It seems to
> be very much like the problem with PowerChute Business Edition which needed
> updated a few years back because of an outdated certificate I believe only
> this seems to cause RAID problems too. I am able to rebuild the RAID and
> then boot again into Safe Mode and see that the array is ok.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> .
>