Re: Can't use internet options...

"Gordon J. Rattray" <> wrote in message
news:u%...
Hi there,

I've got a machine here and I can't use the internet options from control
panel.

Up top in the explorer window there's only the address bar. when I hit F10
to bring down a menu bar, it won't do it....

I've uninstalled AVG, ran Malwarebytes, did chkdsk c:/f, defrag, sfc
/scannow, uninstalled and reinstalled IE from the Add/Remove Windows
Components....all to no avail....

Hmmmm, what's the next step to clean up IE8?

Thanks,

Gordon


<JS>
Right-click on the Tool Bar and select Menu Bar.

Reboot and install IE8 again. I suggest saving the Install program locally
and running it. You should avoid running from the download server.


</JS>

Jeff Strickland wrote:

> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>
> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>
> <JS>
>
> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>
> </JS>

Netiquette issue:
Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to the
lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
delineate your reply. Thank you.

"VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
news:hhlr6n$fhn$...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>
>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>
>> <JS>
>>
>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>
>> </JS>
>
> Netiquette issue:
> Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to the
> lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
> delineate your reply. Thank you.


My reader is configured to do that. Some posts from certain servers come via
an HTML presentation, and the stripping of the HTML code causes confusion
for my reader. Typically,k I get this from GoogleGroups posters, but
sometimes other posts get hosed up too.

It's not my settings, or I would have fixed them already. If you want to
take a swing at it, I'll try whatever you suggest. I'm posting in Plain Text
using Outlook Express 6, XP Pro, SP3.

As you can see by this post, I'm doing my part. the issue is coming from the
post that I Reply to, not the post that I author.

Jeff Strickland wrote:

> "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
> news:hhlr6n$fhn$...
>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>>
>>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>>
>>> <JS>
>>>
>>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>>
>>> </JS>
>>
>> Netiquette issue:
>> Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to the
>> lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
>> delineate your reply. Thank you.
>
> My reader is configured to do that. Some posts from certain servers come via
> an HTML presentation, and the stripping of the HTML code causes confusion
> for my reader. Typically,k I get this from GoogleGroups posters, but
> sometimes other posts get hosed up too.
>
> It's not my settings, or I would have fixed them already. If you want to
> take a swing at it, I'll try whatever you suggest. I'm posting in Plain Text
> using Outlook Express 6, XP Pro, SP3.
>
> As you can see by this post, I'm doing my part. the issue is coming from the
> post that I Reply to, not the post that I author.

When I used eternal-september.org (which was motzarella.org back then),
there was no stripping of quoting characters or forcing posts to use MIME
encoding for text/html parts. How you composed your post wasn't altered by
them. Don't know what other NNTP servers you use for posting but the one
you entered doesn't do all that "manipulation".

"VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
news:hhmqec$pmv$...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>> "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
>> news:hhlr6n$fhn$...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>>>
>>>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>>>
>>>> <JS>
>>>>
>>>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>>>
>>>> </JS>
>>>
>>> Netiquette issue:
>>> Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to the
>>> lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
>>> delineate your reply. Thank you.
>>
>> My reader is configured to do that. Some posts from certain servers come
>> via
>> an HTML presentation, and the stripping of the HTML code causes confusion
>> for my reader. Typically,k I get this from GoogleGroups posters, but
>> sometimes other posts get hosed up too.
>>
>> It's not my settings, or I would have fixed them already. If you want to
>> take a swing at it, I'll try whatever you suggest. I'm posting in Plain
>> Text
>> using Outlook Express 6, XP Pro, SP3.
>>
>> As you can see by this post, I'm doing my part. the issue is coming from
>> the
>> post that I Reply to, not the post that I author.
>
> When I used eternal-september.org (which was motzarella.org back then),
> there was no stripping of quoting characters or forcing posts to use MIME
> encoding for text/html parts. How you composed your post wasn't altered
> by
> them. Don't know what other NNTP servers you use for posting but the one
> you entered doesn't do all that "manipulation".


I also use eternal-september, formerly motzarella. I don't remember if this
was a problem under motzarella or not, but it's annoying to me as well as to
you.

I'm using Windows ISO encoding, and Ignore Sending Format And Reply in Plain
Text. Of course, my posts are in plain text.

Something, most commonly with Google Groups, is causing this annoyance. I
see plenty of other posters that follow Google Groups also have the same
issue, so I'm pretty sure it isn't me. At least I'm not alone if it is me.

I actually started a thread many weeks back seeking an answer to this issue,
and nobody could help. I've tried several things on my own, but nothing
works. Something might work, but I haven't found it yet. I'm convinced the
combination of XP, SP3 and IE8 are a vital key. I was using IE6 and not
having the problem -- that I can recall.

I'll try anything you have to offer.

Jeff Strickland wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote ...
>
>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH wrote ...
>>>
>>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>>>>
>>>>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>>>>
>>>>> <JS>
>>>>>
>>>>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>>>>
>>>>> </JS>
>>>>
>>>> Netiquette issue:
>>>> Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to the
>>>> lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
>>>> delineate your reply. Thank you.
>>>
>>> My reader is configured to do that. Some posts from certain servers come
>>> via
>>> an HTML presentation, and the stripping of the HTML code causes confusion
>>> for my reader. Typically,k I get this from GoogleGroups posters, but
>>> sometimes other posts get hosed up too.
>>>
>>> It's not my settings, or I would have fixed them already. If you want to
>>> take a swing at it, I'll try whatever you suggest. I'm posting in Plain
>>> Text
>>> using Outlook Express 6, XP Pro, SP3.
>>>
>>> As you can see by this post, I'm doing my part. the issue is coming from
>>> the
>>> post that I Reply to, not the post that I author.
>>
>> When I used eternal-september.org (which was motzarella.org back then),
>> there was no stripping of quoting characters or forcing posts to use MIME
>> encoding for text/html parts. How you composed your post wasn't altered
>> by
>> them. Don't know what other NNTP servers you use for posting but the one
>> you entered doesn't do all that "manipulation".
>
> I also use eternal-september, formerly motzarella. I don't remember if this
> was a problem under motzarella or not, but it's annoying to me as well as to
> you.
>
> I'm using Windows ISO encoding, and Ignore Sending Format And Reply in Plain
> Text. Of course, my posts are in plain text.

When using OE, whatever you configured for formatting options is what the ES
server will post.

> Something, most commonly with Google Groups, is causing this annoyance.

Posting through Google Groups has a couple problems. One, your post might
get killfiled due to all the spam that originates from there. While I still
see Google Groupers in the microsoft.* groups, my kill filters will hide all
GG posts in the non-microsoft groups. There is a deluge of GG spam in the
non-microsoft groups but, so far, just a trickle in the microsoft groups.
Two, Google seems erratic as to when it decides to use quoted-printable
format or not. OE doesn't know how to handle QP formatted posts. In fact,
no newsreader knows how to properly handle QP posts since there is only an
RFC standard on how to use the encoding but not how to reply to a post that
uses that encoding. Most NNTP clients simply slice up the lines at a word
boundary at or before the specified maximum line length configured within
that NNTP sclient. OE just leaves as one long line the paragraph of
multiple sentences (and why you see just one quote prefix character at the
start of the paragraph).

I have not played around with Google Groups enough to know why they
sometimes use quoted-printable format and other times not. Might have to do
with the encoding selected in the web browser you are using at the time you
compose a post using the Google Groups interface, or how long is the post,
or if it has attachments, or ... who knows. That they switch without any
user intervention, like a configurable option (since they have to login
which means a saved set of options could be employed), means that users have
no control over when Google uses QP format or not.

I have only used Google Groups when I was forced to use it, like away from
my home computer, behind a firewall that blocked NNTP traffic (content
control, not port control), or on a host where a newsreader wasn't installed
(and I wasn't permitted to install one). Even then I preferred to use
LogMeIn to gain remote access to my home computer and use my newsreader on
that host than to get stuck with using the Google Groups interface.

"VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
news:hholgr$qmp$...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH wrote ...
>>
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH wrote ...
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <JS>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> </JS>
>>>>>
>>>>> Netiquette issue:
>>>>> Please configure your newsreader to prefixe the quoting character to
>>>>> the
>>>>> lines for the quoted posts. Don't get cutsy with fake HTML tags to
>>>>> delineate your reply. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> My reader is configured to do that. Some posts from certain servers
>>>> come
>>>> via
>>>> an HTML presentation, and the stripping of the HTML code causes
>>>> confusion
>>>> for my reader. Typically,k I get this from GoogleGroups posters, but
>>>> sometimes other posts get hosed up too.
>>>>
>>>> It's not my settings, or I would have fixed them already. If you want
>>>> to
>>>> take a swing at it, I'll try whatever you suggest. I'm posting in Plain
>>>> Text
>>>> using Outlook Express 6, XP Pro, SP3.
>>>>
>>>> As you can see by this post, I'm doing my part. the issue is coming
>>>> from
>>>> the
>>>> post that I Reply to, not the post that I author.
>>>
>>> When I used eternal-september.org (which was motzarella.org back then),
>>> there was no stripping of quoting characters or forcing posts to use
>>> MIME
>>> encoding for text/html parts. How you composed your post wasn't altered
>>> by
>>> them. Don't know what other NNTP servers you use for posting but the
>>> one
>>> you entered doesn't do all that "manipulation".
>>
>> I also use eternal-september, formerly motzarella. I don't remember if
>> this
>> was a problem under motzarella or not, but it's annoying to me as well as
>> to
>> you.
>>
>> I'm using Windows ISO encoding, and Ignore Sending Format And Reply in
>> Plain
>> Text. Of course, my posts are in plain text.
>
> When using OE, whatever you configured for formatting options is what the
> ES
> server will post.
>

The "error" exists when I open the errant post to Reply to it. It is not my
news client that's causing the problem, it originates in the post of
whomever sends through Google Groups. Since Google Groups is an HTML
presentation to the sender, I have to assume that the stripping of HTML code
at Send time, or when I open the HTML post, is causing my reader to not know
how to attribute the previous level of posting -- the posting that I Reply
to.

Proof that MY STUFF works right is that all levels of attribution are
properly noted since you called me for the netiquitte breach. The breach
happens, no question of that. But I can't find anything in my settings to
make the breach go away, and the breach is selective -- it only happens on
my Reply to a post from Google Groups. I have no option but to think that
Google Groups is causing the breach of netiquette.





>> Something, most commonly with Google Groups, is causing this annoyance.
>
> Posting through Google Groups has a couple problems. One, your post might
> get killfiled due to all the spam that originates from there. While I
> still
> see Google Groupers in the microsoft.* groups, my kill filters will hide
> all
> GG posts in the non-microsoft groups. There is a deluge of GG spam in the
> non-microsoft groups but, so far, just a trickle in the microsoft groups.
> Two, Google seems erratic as to when it decides to use quoted-printable
> format or not. OE doesn't know how to handle QP formatted posts. In
> fact,
> no newsreader knows how to properly handle QP posts since there is only an
> RFC standard on how to use the encoding but not how to reply to a post
> that
> uses that encoding. Most NNTP clients simply slice up the lines at a word
> boundary at or before the specified maximum line length configured within
> that NNTP sclient. OE just leaves as one long line the paragraph of
> multiple sentences (and why you see just one quote prefix character at the
> start of the paragraph).
>

I don't see any WHEN the post is originated out of Google Groups.

Frankly, I don't care -- beyond the educational value of learning something
new -- what they do or how they do it. What I do care about is that I have
to jump through hoops if I elect to Reply to a posting from Google Groups.



> I have not played around with Google Groups enough to know why they
> sometimes use quoted-printable format and other times not. Might have to
> do
> with the encoding selected in the web browser you are using at the time
> you
> compose a post using the Google Groups interface, or how long is the post,
> or if it has attachments, or ... who knows. That they switch without any
> user intervention, like a configurable option (since they have to login
> which means a saved set of options could be employed), means that users
> have
> no control over when Google uses QP format or not.
>
> I have only used Google Groups when I was forced to use it, like away from
> my home computer, behind a firewall that blocked NNTP traffic (content
> control, not port control), or on a host where a newsreader wasn't
> installed
> (and I wasn't permitted to install one). Even then I preferred to use
> LogMeIn to gain remote access to my home computer and use my newsreader on
> that host than to get stuck with using the Google Groups interface.

I do not use Google Groups at all, ever. I don't know what happens over
there, except that whatever happens makes my Outlook Express not give proper
attribution to the post that I have replied to.

"VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
news:hhlr6n$fhn$...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>> Gordon J. Rattray wrote ...
>>
>> <all of Gordon's post was unquoted>
>>
>> <JS>
>>
>> <all of JS' reply was at the same non-quoted level>
>>
>> </JS>
>
> Netiquette issue:

I just looked in another newsgroup that I participate in, and found two
senders that use G2 and send from Google Groups, one of them has a setting
that strips the information needed for my news client to give proper
attribution -- quotesl -- but the other one does not have the same setting
problem so proper attribution is made automatically, therefore the problem
lies not in my newsreader but is somebody else's.

I agree there is a netiquette issue, but I'm all but certain that I'm not
the cause and not the source for the cure.

As you can see by following our discussion on the matter, my reader is
providing the proper attributions with each of my replies.

I could uses a different cutsy means of deliniating my reply from the
comments that I reply to. I use <JS> and </JS> for lack of a better
solution. At least you know that my comments are in between the notations,
and therefore any other comment is not mine.

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> I agree there is a netiquette issue, but I'm all but certain that I'm
> not the cause and not the source for the cure.

There are two issues here.

1. OP posted in Rich-Text, Quoted Printable with no word wrap activated.
It's a mess!

2. You used a news client that is problematic (Outlook Express) when it
comes to responding to posts that are not properly done for Usenet. If
you were to use a different news reader *or* even Outlook Express with
Quote-Fix (that is what I use):

http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

.... then the attribution marks would appear as they should.

So although you can't change OP's news client's incorrect settings, you
can at least fix your broken posts (granted, a small percentage of your
total posts).

Daave wrote:
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>> I agree there is a netiquette issue, but I'm all but certain that I'm
>> not the cause and not the source for the cure.
>
> There are two issues here.
>
> 1. OP posted in Rich-Text, Quoted Printable with no word wrap
> activated. It's a mess!
>
> 2. You used a news client that is problematic (Outlook Express) when
> it comes to responding to posts that are not properly done for
> Usenet. If you were to use a different news reader *or* even Outlook
> Express with Quote-Fix (that is what I use):
>
> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
>
> ... then the attribution marks would appear as they should.
>
> So although you can't change OP's news client's incorrect settings,
> you can at least fix your broken posts (granted, a small percentage
> of your total posts).

Third issue. :-)

Even with OE Quote-Fix, there can be a problem!

This is what happens when you expect a program to do two different
things (e-mail and news). For instance, I sometimes like to reply to a
rich-text *e-mail* also in rich-text. Now, even though my default
posting mode for *both* e-mail and news is plain text, I often have the
following checked in Tools | Options | Send:

Reply to messages using the format in which they were sent

Here is the problem: That setting affects both e-mails and news. So if I
have that selection checked and I read an incorrectly formatted post
like Gordon's and if I click Reply, then all of a sudden my normal
default is over-ridden and I am now about to post in rich text, too! And
if I decide to change this in mid-stream and select plain text, *every*
bit of the formatting disappears -- even the attribution marks!

I remember once I tried compensating for this problem by going to the
Read tab and select "Read all messages in plain text." However, that
brought up yet another set of problems! (Can't remember now what they
were, though.)

I've tried a few other news clients, but truth be told, I really like
OE's layout and functionality. I just try to be careful. :-)