Re: Failover cluster domain requirements

"Lantz" <> wrote in message
news:0a505299-6b67-4dac-a5c3-...
> Greetings all,
>
> I've recently found docs on the net that says that to use the failover
> clustering (2008 r2) the cluster members need to be in a domain.

This is absolutely correct.

> What
> I am looking to do is to have 2 identical computers (core
> installation) with a shared iSCSI NAS and to do some hyper-v:ing with
> failover. Now to my question, if I want to use the free core install
> of 2008 r2, would it be possible to set these two computers up as
> domain controllers so that they in effect just have a small domain of
> their own, and would this be possible with the free core install, or
> would I need some licenses for this?

1. The Core Edition of the OS is not free.
2. If you are talking about the Hyper-V server product that is just a Hyper
Visor platform, then the VMs run inside it are not free OS licenses either
to the best of my knowledge. I might be wrong here, but I am pretty sure you
need to run Enterprise or Datacenter Editions to get free VM OS licensing.
3. Running cluster nodes on domain controllers is strongly discouraged, and
I believe it is not supported for SQL and it is definitely not supported for
Exchange

> We do have a server license that I could use as a domain controller,
> but it is for one of the servers I want to virtualize, so I suppose
> it'd be a bit weird to have the hyper-v servers virtualize their own
> domain controller (would this even work?).

Yes, it would work to have a virtual DC in the same Hyper-V server as the
nodes so long as it starts first.


--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Russ Kaufmann" <> wrote in message
news:B188CAB3-2623-45A7-9B64-...

[...]
> 3. Running cluster nodes on domain controllers is strongly discouraged,
> and I believe it is not supported for SQL and it is definitely not
> supported for Exchange

Well, suppose now I have a small company with a small network
(say some 15 clients with one DC acting as a File Server).
I want to prevent any trouble should my DC let me down.
I think the simplest way is to add another server (a new domain
controller to an existing domain), a storage and a Failover
2-node cluster (the 2 nodes being DC1 and DC2).
What else?

Bruno

"Bruno Campanini" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Russ Kaufmann" <> wrote in message
> news:B188CAB3-2623-45A7-9B64-...
>
> [...]
>> 3. Running cluster nodes on domain controllers is strongly discouraged,
>> and I believe it is not supported for SQL and it is definitely not
>> supported for Exchange
>
> Well, suppose now I have a small company with a small network
> (say some 15 clients with one DC acting as a File Server).
> I want to prevent any trouble should my DC let me down.

Then I would recommend that you install a second DC. Domain Controllers are
multi-master and have their own replication process.


--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Lantz" <> wrote in message
news:77c8965e-9ec1-4179-a5f5-...

> Oh, so I suppose the hyper-v-only edition doesn't include the domain
> controller role anyway, right?

That is correct. It is a virtualization platform only. If you want to run
VMs, then they need to be licensed and the proper OS needs to be installed
in the VMs.


> But if I need more servers to have a domain the cost and complexity of
> this rises quickly...

That is correct.

RK> Is there any way to achieve simple failover without the built-in
clustering?

I would recommend looking into outsourcing.

If you really want to do this on the cheap, get two good desktops and
install them with the proper OS and use them as DCs, then use your two large
boxes with Enterprise or Datacenter on them (which will require purchasing
of the actual OS and not the free hyper-v product), then get a storage
environment for them (iSCSI will probably be the cheapest) and build a
cluster and cluster the Hyper-V role.

In any case, you need:
2 copies of the Windows Server OS with both being Enterprise or Datacenter
2 copies of the Windows Server OS with both being Standard Edition and used
for your DCs
An iSCSI SAN
Licensing for the VMs run inside the Hyper-V servers (some of which are free
because of the Enterprise or Datacenter product hosting the VMs)

I hate to say it, but it is probably cost prohibitive.

Good luck.

--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Russ Kaufmann" <> wrote in message
news:A20BB388-3FCC-4550-8D50-...

> Then I would recommend that you install a second DC. Domain Controllers
> are multi-master and have their own replication process.

Ok, fine.
Then what else would I prevent that single-point failure?

Bruno

"Bruno Campanini" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Russ Kaufmann" <> wrote in message
> news:A20BB388-3FCC-4550-8D50-...
>
>> Then I would recommend that you install a second DC. Domain Controllers
>> are multi-master and have their own replication process.
>
> Ok, fine.
> Then what else would I prevent that single-point failure?

I am sure that there are some third party products out there, but the tried
and true method of providing redundancy for a DC is to have multiple DCs.

--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Lantz" <> wrote in message
news:f884e866-8739-4815-b25a-...
> Hmm. Is it possible to manually (via wmi, for instance) initiate a
> live migration?

Live Migration is a term denoting a specific situation where Hyper-V is
clustered so that VMs can failover from one node to another by using Live
Migration. This link should get you started.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...8WS.10%29.aspx


--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Lantz" <> wrote in message
news:8004490a-7144-42e8-824c-...
My question was more like is it possible to trigger the transfer of a
running vm from one machine to another using WMI

RK> No, the VM uses files that are stored on a hard disk. That hard disk
needs to be shared between the hosts to make it work - thus clustering.

RK> However, you could probably do it using a third party product that
replicates the data on the disks to another host and then stop one and start
the other through a script of some kind.

--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp

"Lantz" <> wrote in message
news:b839b94e-ae7e-4c3c-a5b1-...
On Sep 15, 3:25 am, "Russ Kaufmann" <r...@clusterhelp.com> wrote:
> "Lantz" <christoffer.la...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8004490a-7144-42e8-824c-...
> My question was more like is it possible to trigger the transfer of a
> running vm from one machine to another using WMI
>
> RK> No, the VM uses files that are stored on a hard disk. That hard disk
> needs to be shared between the hosts to make it work - thus clustering.
>
> RK> However, you could probably do it using a third party product that
> replicates the data on the disks to another host and then stop one and
> start
> the other through a script of some kind.

Thanks for your reply. What if the vhd is stored on a shared iSCSI
LUN? Both servers wouldn't be able to access it at the same time
(unless I use CSV, but I assume that would require a cluster, hence
the name), but I figure they shouldnt have to. What do you think?

RK> So, if they are on an iSCSI SAN, then you could do it using clustering.
Otherwise, no, you can't have two servers connecting to the same disk
without risking serious disk corruption.

--
Russ Kaufmann,
MVP, MCSE: Messaging and Security, MCT, MCITP, MCTS and other stuff

ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp