Re: MSFT Connect Officially Rejects Public Access to Bugs to Robert

LOL Robert--

For what I assume is a grown man's body, you pack a lot of epithets you
should have left on the elementary school cutting room floor. You're prime
time proof of the Wordsworth and Hopkins observations that "The Child is
father of the man."

The only fluff and bluster and trajectory down fast is your syncophantic
feined outrage. Are you a closet Redmon softie?

"Fluff and bluster my ass." You profess to know Windows, Vista and MSFT.
Bring it my man. Show me comprehensive articles on the major features of
Vista. Where are articles on Win RE, System File Checker, and a panopoly of
other features in detail on any MSFT site, the Help server for Vista,
Technet, or MSDN.

How anti learning for a company who considers its employees elete
applicants with creme de la crem academic pedigress although this is hardly
the case.

"More freakishness from you, validating the insanity of your rantings."

LOL I think you set the bar for state of the art rants Robert. "Insanity"?
LOL I have a ton of posts here and on the XP groups for years fixing things.
The people that got them fixed didn't think they were insane.

It's not fluff and bluster that I know my way around the MSFT sites and
that company as well as you do, and you can't find them because they
haven't been written. I've been all over the team members msdn blogs as
well.

The chats are not in one simple one stop shop place as they should be
archived, and as MSFT archives most of their chats. And they are closed.
The beta chats could be found by the public but they have to look hard for
them. Chats of all kinds, Windows, and Office, Technet, MSDN, XP are
archived, but these are not.


"Your opening paragraph is aggressive and accusatory." You're damn right.
I want them to fix the access to inforamation that lacks a sound
rationaled for blocking. I spend a lot of time on groups and forums fixing
things. I got tired of fixing them in XP when MSFT could have fixed many
prior to RTM and I see a lot broken shipping in Vista. It's about getting
anything out the door; not getting carefully crafted quality out the door.
This puppy is about to RTM. Little significant is going to change and
service packs basically change the code vulnerablities for security in a
Windows OS, not substantive functionality.

1) I've looked at every build of Vista and I profess to have knowledge of
the bugs, the bugs that they closed, the continual outcry of TBTs when
their bugs were ignored, the cascades of snafus and screwups during the bug
process, and the fact remains they don't want the public to know what they
are doing with the bugs and proferr to the public in countless
locations--their blogs, their sites that they are seriously vetting the
bugs. They aren't. That's fact.

I can look at Vista; I have as much knowledge of the inner workings as I
need to. I see the bugs; I see what doesn't get fixed, and again they
refuse to give the public access to bug searches and context of other bugs
yet expect them to spend time reporting them.

Device Manager lies when a driver is courrupt. It's been around since 1995.
Try to tell us it's accurate when a driver is corrupted because I can prove
you wrong in a Brooklyn Bridge heart beat. Fluff and bluster my ass. They
haven't fixed it in 12 years and 5 operating systems.

"Now you profess to have knowledge of the inner workings and decision making
process at Microsoft..." The inner workings aren't the issue but I have
reasonably good understanding of them for someone not working there--they
don't share a lot of hands on operation. The point is the bottom line is
they don't reveal the bugs to the pubic who can't even often check the
status of their own bug, because they don't fix a lot of them.

If you think I haven't been to meetings of all kinds, and sizes, I can't
fix your delusion. Have you ever gone to a meeting attended by 200 people?
[LOL what do you think as to that?

"How much actual progress gets made in such a meeting?

I've seen the Beta chats--hundreds of questions get asked and the answer
level is sometimes poor but it's much better than the public chats where
say, the IE team can be and often is flip and condescending to the point of
imparting no substantive information. I can dissect one of the transcripts
and show you how poorly they answer questions about the IE security tab.
MSFT has done little to clarify that tab for the average user on their site
or in the IE6 Resource Kit for XP as well.

You really missed the boat as to people at a meeting. I said that there are
27,000 TBTs and ancillary groups. I didn't say all 27,000 had to be in the
same place at once. I was reporting the fraction of them that show up for
Beta chats and Beta Live Meetings closed to the public with the only result
that the publc loses the detailed learning value for everyday hands on
operation of Vista. MSFT's web sites are doing a **** poor job right now of
educating people on Vista--while questions here may indicate some people
want a little spoon feeding, most of them are very good users who work hard
to try to get things up and running with a lot of experience before they
even come and ask for help. Others may want to do it right and are wise
enough to try to flesh out detail and get confirmation in a group.

My gripe is that MSFT has so little regard for the public they couldn't get
off their ass to put all the chats in one place on the Vista site. There is
a lot of pop culture Wegner Edstrom esque graphics and cheerleading at
www.microsoft.com/windowsvista

That wouldn't require 27,000 or 2 being at a meeting. They could then view
them on demand. I suggested it to them, and I documented them blowing it
off.


"Clear, confident, and connected" does nothing to educate anyone on Vista.
It's marketing crap and false crap at that. A device manager that lies
about driver health isn't clear and it isn't competent.


Get real. I dare you to walk into the center of a basketball stadium of
27,000 people and try to get something meaningful out of the attendees.

Robert are you severly dyslexic? I didn't say 27,000 people needed to be at
the chats. I said they have 27000 TBTs and close to an average of 100
attend them. They could open them up to those who want to. 27000 again
again again is the number of TBTs and TAP and MVPs using Vista Beta that are
in existence.

I also pushed for locating them at one place instead of a few at one
writer's blog. I'm totally real. They could archive them and opening them
to the public is not the same as 27,000 of several group members showing up
some where. Archiving them has nothing to do with what number uses the
archives. Get real indeed.

"It is restricted precisely because of people like you, who seem to offer
nothing more than a lot of knee-jerking and outlandish conspiracy theories."

In fact Robert, a search on my posts here and in the Vista setup group shows
hundreds of posts by me to fix various aspects of Vista, setup, and a lost
XP and none by you. So I'd say you have a ton of catchup to do in the area
of real people working on real problems, and I've given plenty of feedback
on aspects of Vista that should have been fixed and aren't being fixed for a
long time. They're ignoring those bugs and they aren't fixing major
systemic problems in Vista.

"HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! "I am complaining because you put the information out
there
but people don't go there and read it!" You know the old saying, "you can
lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?" Well, welcome to
reality buddy. Pardon the world for not spoon-feeding you.'"

Again Robert. You either need therapy, or basic reading skills, or a strong
hybrid of both. I'm pretty competent at drilling MSFT's sites and finding
information and my posts reflect that. You haven't read them. I'm not
asking anyone to "spoon feed me" I've been in the business for years of
answering questions on many MSFT newsgroups and chats of a subset who want
spoonfeeding. I'm not responsible for what others read or don't. I find
everything relevant on their sites, MSDN blogs, Technet blogs, and I get
plenty of material from them from other sources and I read and metabolize it
well.

Do a search on my posts and look at the links on MSFT sites and try to
convince yourself that I want to lol be spoonfed. You're really stepping on
some tender parts of your anatomy.

"Again, wiping away the insanity and hyperbole, is this really the root of
your complaint? You want more information on a pre-release system and are
mad because you haven't got it?"

Again, the Beta started in July 2005 and it's 14 months old and hell yes
there should have been more out by now. A number of people who have
commited toward writing Vista books for various publishers have made the
complaint and some in this space.

" Translation: Stop working on the code, put a hold on all release dates,
and
feed me information so I can then complain that you are spending way too
much time documenting instead of actually releasing something."

Yo Robert. Here's a little "inner workings" material for you. MSFT pays a
posse of community liason staff who are writers assinged to each major team
to write. They don't have a scintilla of nano-responsibility for writing
"code" or debugging "code." There job is to write about the features on
MSFT's web sites. Many of them haven't done their job. They've been in
places since before July 2005. This has nothing to do with anyone working
on the code stopping. Where do you get your bizarred delusions?

"Translation: Turn beta chats into disorganized chaos where 27,000 people "

Nope Robt. You missed it again. Again the 27000 is not the number I advocate
showing up. It's the number of designated MVPs, + TBTs, + Tap and a few
other groups. My point was how many people don't show up day to day to test
or participate on groups and again I was advocating central archiving of the
chats and Live Meetings as a common sense remedy that MSFT's pre-occupation
with marketing and money caused them to kick to the curb. There is no
earthly reason they can't do it. Some msdn bloggers are trying to post the
chats agreeing with me.

I know Robert, then you conclude that the MSDN Vista bloggers are insane
too. LOL to the 64th

I really really look forward to you many substantive posts, since I can't
find one, where you help people here with Vista issues. Have at it. I know
you just haven't gotten around to it.

CH


"Robert Simpson" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Chad Harris" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>> "MSFT has deployed an attitude of utmost contempt for the public and the
>> CPP by restricting information from them and defeating any semblance of a
>> learning curve. Connect blocks access to bug reports by the public.
>
> Your opening paragraph is aggressive and accusatory. Not a good way to
> begin a feedback form if you want to have your feedback taken seriously.
>
>> This is done with the intention of preventing their customsers from
>> contexting bugs, seeing bugs, realizing what won't be fixed or what is
>> deffered to "fix" and never will be by Blackcomb Vienna.
>
> Now you profess to have knowledge of the inner workings and decision
> making process at Microsoft, enough to know what their intentions are and
> the purpose behind them. We're going downhill fast!
>
>> MSFT further in the most quintissential anti-education posture possible
>> in contrast to the Gates Foundation stomps all over the learning curves
>> of their customers with respect to Vista by
>
> Oh please. Now you're just laying it on thick. Fluff and bluster so far.
>
>> 1) denying them access to Beta chats where some real info is exchanged
>> that only approximately 100-200 people out of 27000 Beta testors in
>> different groups including but not restricted to TBT and TAP and those
>> added in the last few months. Instead of sensibly providing a central
>> link for all the chats on the MSFT web site, say
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista and the Technet site and MSDN they
>> hide the chats. Selected MSDN bloggers put selected chats on line, and
>> afik the chats aren't under any NDA. How inconsiderate to hide them from
>> the public.
>
> Have you ever gone to a meeting attended by 200 people? How much actual
> progress gets made in such a meeting? Ok now lets put 10 MS reps in a
> room with 27,000 people and see how much meaningful dialog occurs. If all
> 27,000 people we given 1 minute to speak (forget MS speaking) it would
> take 11 weeks (8hrs a day, 5 days a week for 11 weeks) for everyone to
> finish. How can this be productive?
>
>> How anti learning for a company who considers its employees elete
>> applicants with creme de la crem academic pedigress although this is
>> hardly the case.
>
> More freakishness from you, validating the insanity of your rantings.
>
>> 2) MSFT also denies their public customer base who put food on their
>> tables and toys in their homes access to multiple *Beta Live Meetings on
>> Vista (I'm not talking about the infrequent and question limited Technet
>> LMs) during the week and refuses to archive them. They have no more than
>> 200 and often less attendies. There are 27000 plus TBTs.
>
> Get real. I dare you to walk into the center of a basketball stadium of
> 27,000 people and try to get something meaningful out of the attendees.
>
>> 3) MSFT also restricts their Beta newsgroups from the public and there is
>> no reason to do so. The public Vista grousp are considerably less in
>> number, and the information is considerably less in quality with even
>> more newbie questions than on the TBT groups.
>
> It is restricted precisely because of people like you, who seem to offer
> nothing more than a lot of knee-jerking and outlandish conspiracy
> theories. Meanwhile, real work needs to get done by real people, working
> on real problems, and needing feedback from objective people who
> understand the processes involved. For example, our government would
> cease to exist and anarchy would ensue if every American were allowed free
> access to come and go and voice their opinion in our courtrooms, senate
> and house of representatives at will. There has to be some restrictions
> in place, or no real work would ever get done.
>
>> MSFT's only regard for the public is in the context of a file and
>> settings transfer manger--to transfer as much bandwidth of cash into the
>> MSFT pockets from the public as possible.
>
> More freak hyperbole. Rant on, but nobody is listening to you anymore.
>
>> MSFT has Community Liasons assigned to key Vista teams who have not
>> lifted a finger to publish comprehensive information on the MSFT public
>> websites. Excellent information is available on MSDN and Technet blogs,
>> but they are known and used by a limited number and subset of people.
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! "I am complaining because you put the information out
> there but people don't go there and read it!" You know the old saying,
> "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?" Well,
> welcome to reality buddy. Pardon the world for not spoon-feeding you.
>
>> No comprehensive and decent level information is available on SFC and Win
>> RE in Vista on any MSFT site. What is there is insulting to anyone with
>> an interest in Windows who is provides consistent considerable help for
>> your customers on your newsgroups.
>
> Again, wiping away the insanity and hyperbole, is this really the root of
> your complaint? You want more information on a pre-release system and are
> mad because you haven't got it?
>
> You sir, are a sad, strange little man.
>
>> Correct this eggregious lack of information immediately.
>
> Translation: Stop working on the code, put a hold on all release dates,
> and feed me information so I can then complain that you are spending way
> too much time documenting instead of actually releasing something.
>
>> 1) Make the Beta chats public and archive them in a central place and
>> showcase this on your community websites and Vista sites.
>
> Translation: Turn beta chats into disorganized chaos where 27,000 people
> can spam questions that a dozen MS employees could never hope to answer,
> thereby ensuring that no questions get answered and nothing is
> accomplished.
>
>> 2) Make the Beta Live Meetings all public and archive them in a
>> central place and showcase this on your community websites and Vista
>> sites.
>
> Same as #1
>
>> 3) Stop hiding bug access for Beta testers. TBTs have offered to check
>> them for adults who are interested on your public newsgroups. That arms
>> length approach would be pathetic.
>
> With whiners and complainers like you, I can't say I blame them for making
> the bugs private. Morons latch onto little things like "when I hit F1 at
> this dialog it pauses for 1 second before loading help" and complain when
> their bug gets marked as "duh you're stupid" -- err, I mean "Wont Fix".
> People actually think Vista should be held back until every single bug any
> schmoe ever submitted is corrected. Sorry, but that ain't going to
> happen.
>
>> 4) The public doesn't have any feedback as to efforts they expend to
>> give you bug information. MSFT doesn't give a damn what the unwashed
>> public thinks. Your arrogance that cost you nearly 250 million and
>> growing fines after Brad Smith's litigation with the European Union (make
>> sure Brad gets a big Christmas bonus) is systemically branded on this
>> policy that is going to generate untrained Vista users in your public
>> customer base.
>> Get the Community writers on the Vista teams off their butts and have
>> them post comprehensive articles on the MSFT Vista sites, not some
>> pathetic cheerleading manual like the "Product Guide." You are about 50
>> days from an October 25 Internal RTM which is shoving this half baked
>> unfinished
>
> More incomprehensible rantings which neither justify your complaints,
> validate any point, or have any reasonable relation to any of your other
> rantings. Articles take time to write, information takes time to
> disseminate, and you can't document something that's still being developed
> or whiners like you will complain it's inaccurate.
>
> [snip duplicate rantings]
>
>> Vista is not to use the MSFT synchophant mantra in the category that it
>> "like so rocks." That's crap.
>
> Translation: I have no idea what "synchophant" means but it sounds cool
> and so I had to use it in a sentence.
> The word is however, similar to "sycophant" which is defined as a toadie
> or parasite, or a person who seeks favor by flattering people of higher
> station.
>
>> A more realistic take is the article by Ed Bott who says if you stick to
>> your current time table it will be horrendous. Ed Bott is the author of
>> MSFT Press Windows Vista Inside Out, Windows XP Inside Out, and runs too
>> blogs. Read them. Learn what Vista is really like.
>
> After all these paragraphs of your ranting, now you're telling MS to get
> real? I think you're the one that needs to get real, my friend.
>
>> I would be happy to go one on one with any one from Redmond MSFT and
>> point out what isn't being fixed in RC1 today."
>
> You and Kevin Panzke think you have such great "above and beyond"
> knowledge that Microsoft should just fly you to Redmond to be consultants.
> In reality, you just need to get out of your parent's basement once in a
> while.
>
> Robert
>
> P.S. Just for fun, and because I find it rather amusing that whiners and
> moaners typically use big words they can't spell:
> deffered
> quintissential
> testors
> elete
> pedigress
> attendies
> Liasons
> eggregious
> synchophant
>
>