Re: new requirement advice please

In article <>,
says...
> OK, Thanks for the advice. The reason for keeping it to one server if
> possible was for costs and complications.

Just how much do you think it's going to cost in consulting fees and
downtime and "Complications" when your server is compromised by allowing
you or someone else to use it as a workstation?

A single compromise, considering loss of time, data, notifying people of
their personal information, etc... is something that few owners consider
a real cost, but it's very real.

> Another related question is.. The point of having the emails setup 'inhouse'
> is to enable the business to keep all sent and received emails via that
> account even from staff who work remotely. What alternative would you
> suggest that would enable all the sent emails to also be kept inhouse?

You do know, if you don't have some third party tool to archive
sent/recvd email, that you're not going to have a full record of all
email sent/recvd - there are crude ways to do this without a third-party
tool, but there are very good third party tools that do this very
nicely.

> I am thinking that an alternative setup for the business at the moment as it
> is very small is to have LAN to LAN VPN's allowing sharing of files and
> databases easily. This would still leave me with the email issue though. Any
> thoughts?

Wrong direction - if you allow a VPN then, since you're going to allow
sharing of files, will have MORE COMPLICATIONS due to network lag and
SECURITY as well as virus/malware issues - since you don't control their
home machines you have no way to secure them.

Your best bet is to hire a quality SBS aware consultant, then, if you
are unsure of his recommendations, ping them off us in this group and
we'll let you know if it makes sense or explain it to you.

You are going down a dangerous road that won't save you money, your best
option is a small SBS server and a more powerful Terminal Server.

If you want to do this in a single box, purchasing a nice Dual CPU Quad
Core server and 16GB RAM and then running SBS and TS as virtual children
on the single server to a Win 2008 parent. One server hardware, multiple
Server Operating systems on that single server - this would require a
good consultant to setup for you.


--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

I agree with Leythos, you need 2 servers or one very powerful one with
virtual servers on it. And you definitely need a qualified consultant to
implement it for you. IT is an investment and many people dont realise how
important it is to get this right first time round, the problem is that it
wont be realised until a serious problem occurs. Depending what business you
are in a day or 2 downtime could be catastrophic!!!
Purchase some 3rd party email archiving software if you ned to keep a copy
of all the emails.
VPN is not good for a permanent solution, more to give you remote access if
needed, dont try and use it permanently.
James.
--
James Yeomans, BSc, MCSE, MCTS
Ask me directly at: http://www.justaskjames.co.uk


"lenny109" wrote:

> In Line..
>
> "Leythos" <> wrote in message
> news: m...
> > In article <>,
> > says...
> >> OK, Thanks for the advice. The reason for keeping it to one server if
> >> possible was for costs and complications.
> >
> > Just how much do you think it's going to cost in consulting fees and
> > downtime and "Complications" when your server is compromised by allowing
> > you or someone else to use it as a workstation?
> >
> > A single compromise, considering loss of time, data, notifying people of
> > their personal information, etc... is something that few owners consider
> > a real cost, but it's very real.
>
> OK,
>
> >> Another related question is.. The point of having the emails setup
> >> 'inhouse'
> >> is to enable the business to keep all sent and received emails via that
> >> account even from staff who work remotely. What alternative would you
> >> suggest that would enable all the sent emails to also be kept inhouse?
> >
> > You do know, if you don't have some third party tool to archive
> > sent/recvd email, that you're not going to have a full record of all
> > email sent/recvd - there are crude ways to do this without a third-party
> > tool, but there are very good third party tools that do this very
> > nicely.
>
> Yes I am aware of this but was just asking about any experience and thoughts
> on this one. It could really be a seperate question. I didn't realise that
> there were any decent alternatives to Exchange. An alternative would be to
> set the accounts up web based. something similar to google mail.
>
>
> >> I am thinking that an alternative setup for the business at the moment as
> >> it
> >> is very small is to have LAN to LAN VPN's allowing sharing of files and
> >> databases easily. This would still leave me with the email issue though.
> >> Any
> >> thoughts?
> >
> > Wrong direction - if you allow a VPN then, since you're going to allow
> > sharing of files, will have MORE COMPLICATIONS due to network lag and
> > SECURITY as well as virus/malware issues - since you don't control their
> > home machines you have no way to secure them.
>
> Good point although I don't think the network lag would be to much of a
> problem on such as small setup. The malware issue is a good point though.
>
> > Your best bet is to hire a quality SBS aware consultant, then, if you
> > are unsure of his recommendations, ping them off us in this group and
> > we'll let you know if it makes sense or explain it to you.
> >
> > You are going down a dangerous road that won't save you money, your best
> > option is a small SBS server and a more powerful Terminal Server.
> >
> > If you want to do this in a single box, purchasing a nice Dual CPU Quad
> > Core server and 16GB RAM and then running SBS and TS as virtual children
> > on the single server to a Win 2008 parent. One server hardware, multiple
> > Server Operating systems on that single server - this would require a
> > good consultant to setup for you.
>
> I think your orignal ideas would be better than the multiple operating
> systems on a single server.
>
>
> >
> > --
> > - Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
> > - Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
> > drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
> > (remove 999 for proper email address)
>
>
>

My responses In Line

In article <>,
says...
> In Line..
>
> "Leythos" <> wrote in message
> news: m...
> > In article <>,
> > says...
> >> OK, Thanks for the advice. The reason for keeping it to one server if
> >> possible was for costs and complications.
> >
> > Just how much do you think it's going to cost in consulting fees and
> > downtime and "Complications" when your server is compromised by allowing
> > you or someone else to use it as a workstation?
> >
> > A single compromise, considering loss of time, data, notifying people of
> > their personal information, etc... is something that few owners consider
> > a real cost, but it's very real.
>
> OK,
>
> >> Another related question is.. The point of having the emails setup
> >> 'inhouse'
> >> is to enable the business to keep all sent and received emails via that
> >> account even from staff who work remotely. What alternative would you
> >> suggest that would enable all the sent emails to also be kept inhouse?
> >
> > You do know, if you don't have some third party tool to archive
> > sent/recvd email, that you're not going to have a full record of all
> > email sent/recvd - there are crude ways to do this without a third-party
> > tool, but there are very good third party tools that do this very
> > nicely.
>
> Yes I am aware of this but was just asking about any experience and thoughts
> on this one. It could really be a seperate question. I didn't realise that
> there were any decent alternatives to Exchange. An alternative would be to
> set the accounts up web based. something similar to google mail.

You misunderstood - Exchange is PERFECT, but the ability for YOU to save
every email in/out from every user is less than perfect with the built-
in exchange features. GFI has a Mail Archive tool that works with
Exchange that provide the exact features you want, but it costs.

> >> I am thinking that an alternative setup for the business at the moment as
> >> it
> >> is very small is to have LAN to LAN VPN's allowing sharing of files and
> >> databases easily. This would still leave me with the email issue though.
> >> Any
> >> thoughts?
> >
> > Wrong direction - if you allow a VPN then, since you're going to allow
> > sharing of files, will have MORE COMPLICATIONS due to network lag and
> > SECURITY as well as virus/malware issues - since you don't control their
> > home machines you have no way to secure them.
>
> Good point although I don't think the network lag would be to much of a
> problem on such as small setup. The malware issue is a good point though.

Network LAG is a problem over VPN. It doesn't matter HOW SMALL, because
your VPN is only as fast as your internet connections, which is almost
always significantly slower than your LAN/Network connection locally.

As an example, a user VPN's into the network/server, opens a folder on
the server, waits 30+ seconds for the files to populate, then double
clicks on a 3MB Word document - they wait for 10 seconds and don't see
anything happening, they do it again, now they have two instances trying
to open, but they don't realize that - so 20 seconds goes by and they
click again, now they have three instances trying to open and each one
consumes internet bandwidth making it that much slower to open ANY ONE
of them.... It gets worse as more than one person at the remote location
tries to do this.

If you use a cheap NAT router and a PPTP VPN, many of them can only
handle 2 PPTP sessions and then they start doing strange things - so
that will cost you time and money to resolve.

If you have a VPN Router, better option, site-site connection, but then
you need Business Class internet service, costing you more money per
month, and you can only hope that it's not some crappy DSL service.

> > Your best bet is to hire a quality SBS aware consultant, then, if you
> > are unsure of his recommendations, ping them off us in this group and
> > we'll let you know if it makes sense or explain it to you.
> >
> > You are going down a dangerous road that won't save you money, your best
> > option is a small SBS server and a more powerful Terminal Server.
> >
> > If you want to do this in a single box, purchasing a nice Dual CPU Quad
> > Core server and 16GB RAM and then running SBS and TS as virtual children
> > on the single server to a Win 2008 parent. One server hardware, multiple
> > Server Operating systems on that single server - this would require a
> > good consultant to setup for you.
>
> I think your orignal ideas would be better than the multiple operating
> systems on a single server.

It really depends - a Single server with Virtual Children of SBS and TS
makes a great solution and it's lower on utilities, easy to maintain,
easy to recover in the event of a disaster, etc.... but it has it's own
complications for setup and many consultants don't have a clue.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(remove 999 for proper email address)

lenny109 wrote:

>>> I am thinking that an alternative setup for the business at the moment as
>>> it
>>> is very small is to have LAN to LAN VPN's allowing sharing of files and
>>> databases easily. This would still leave me with the email issue though.
>>> Any
>>> thoughts?
>> Wrong direction - if you allow a VPN then, since you're going to allow
>> sharing of files, will have MORE COMPLICATIONS due to network lag and
>> SECURITY as well as virus/malware issues - since you don't control their
>> home machines you have no way to secure them.
>
> Good point although I don't think the network lag would be to much of a
> problem on such as small setup. The malware issue is a good point though.
>

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far, and you may not know,
involves databases and other files opened across a VPN. You didn't ask
about any kind of SQL server, so I assume your databases are Access .mdb
files, or another vendor's equivalent.

An open file can be wrecked if a write is in progress when the network
goes slow or is dropped. Almost always, an Access file damaged in this
way cannot be recovered. The Access application also usually freaks out
and has to be killed. Frequent backups are absolutely essential, and any
work done since the last backup is gone. This is quite messy when two or
more people are working on the same file. Even when editing a remote
Word document, copy it locally first, then edit it, then copy it back.
Copying can be re-tried if there are problems, editing can't. Always
assume that your remote link will drop at the least convenient time.

I would strongly recommend that where any application involves opening
files on another machine, the connection between them is wired: not
wireless, not over the Internet and especially not using VPN. This means
using a terminal server method of remote access, where the file is
opened on one LAN machine by another LAN machine.

There's a couple of other points, such as the need for shared-file
databases to copy entire tables over the connection, which with VPN and
large tables can be very slow. Also, though the data is fairly secure
within the VPN, while it is being worked on it is stored in a machine
with questionable security, and may leave local copies behind. A
terminal server type of solution means that the data never leaves the
business LAN.

One other point: if you are sharing files more than occasionally, then
at some point, two people will try to save differently edited versions
of the same original file. Only one will win. Version control systems
exist to avoid this problem, and Sharepoint in SBS is a simple but
useful one. Another consideration when picking a system.

--
Joe