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Re: puzzled about filesize

 
 
R. C. White
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Posts: n/a

 
      08-15-2010
Hi, Niek.

I don't have a "for sure" answer, but there are a number of possibilities.
Speaking of numbers, how about some? Are you talking about 200 GB of data
on a 150 GB HDD? Or maybe 155 GB on that 150 GB disk? In other words, is
this a giant disparity, or just a minor difference?

Some of the possibilities:

1. You've chosen to let Windows compress files to save disk space. (It's
a checkbox near the bottom of the Properties window.)

2. Do you use any kind of file compaction, such as RAR or ZIP files?

3. How are you determining the size of all files and folders? Might you
be double-counting the contents of Libraries by counting the files once in
their actual location and again in one or more Libraries?

4. We usually see the opposite question: "My disk is full but my files
add up to only 80% of capacity." This is often explained by "slack space"
wasted at the end of each file; this can add up to a half-cluster (usually 2
KB) times the number of files.

If you give us more details, such as the actual numbers involved, we might
make better "shots in the dark".

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64


"sobriquet" wrote in message
news:c7dd2675-784b-4d80-8032-...

Hi.
Something baffles me. Perhaps someone here can explain it.
If I go to the properties of the C drive on my laptop, the size
reported is smaller than the total size of the files and folders on
drive C:
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2843/dataa.jpg
How can the size of all selected files and folders on the C drive
exceed the total capacity of that same C drive?
Greetings and thanks in advance for any explanations, Niek

 
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R. C. White
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Posts: n/a

 
      08-16-2010
Hi, Niek.

You've told us the total size (40 GB) of your Drive C:, but not the total
bytes reported as used by all the files and folders. Does your computer
report over 50 GB used in your 40 GB partition? Or just 40.01 GB used? In
other words, could this be simply a rounding error? Or might it be
explained by the difference between "marketing" GB, where 1 GB = 1,000 MB,
and "computer" GB, where 1 GB = 1024 MB?

MY Win7 Drive C: is nominally 60 GB. Right-click on it and select
Properties and it shows the pie chart with 47.5 GB used (51,035,348,992
bytes) and 11.0 GB still unused for a total disk capacity of 58.5 GB
(62,915,604,480 bytes). When I use Windows Explorer to open Drive C: then
Select All, then right-click one of the highlighted files and select
Properties, the window reports 48.0 GB total used, with Size on disk 48.5 GB
(52,079,145,116 bytes). Note that my "60 GB" partition has room for over 60
billion bytes, but that is only 58.5 GB by the computer's calculation. (1
GB = 1024*1024*1024 =
1,073,741,824, NOT 1 billion bytes. So 60 GB = 64,424,509,440 bytes, not 60
billion.) When I told Disk Management to create a 60 GB volume, it rounded
that down to some size that would use an even number of whole clusters - or
some such technical adjustment that I did not bother to try to understand
since the size I ended up with was fine for my purposes.

(You probably know all this, Niek, but we're never sure who is "reading over
our shoulders" and may be able to benefit from this explanation.)

So, what are the equivalent numbers for your partition size? And for your
total usage on that partition? In GB and in bytes? Is there a big
difference, or a small one that might be explained by rounding or by the
different definitions of GB?

There are a few tricks to reduce Vista's appetite for space on its boot
volume, such as moving the Page File to another drive. But let's not get
into those yet.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64


"sobriquet" wrote in message
news:1df90068-7f42-4766-81c4-...

On 15 aug, 03:48, "R. C. White" <r...@grandecom.net> wrote:
> Hi, Niek.
>
> I don't have a "for sure" answer, but there are a number of possibilities.
> Speaking of numbers, how about some? Are you talking about 200 GB of data
> on a 150 GB HDD? Or maybe 155 GB on that 150 GB disk? In other words, is
> this a giant disparity, or just a minor difference?
>
> Some of the possibilities:
>
> 1. You've chosen to let Windows compress files to save disk space.
> (It's
> a checkbox near the bottom of the Properties window.)
>
> 2. Do you use any kind of file compaction, such as RAR or ZIP files?
>
> 3. How are you determining the size of all files and folders? Might
> you
> be double-counting the contents of Libraries by counting the files once in
> their actual location and again in one or more Libraries?
>
> 4. We usually see the opposite question: "My disk is full but my files
> add up to only 80% of capacity." This is often explained by "slack space"
> wasted at the end of each file; this can add up to a half-cluster (usually
> 2
> KB) times the number of files.
>
> If you give us more details, such as the actual numbers involved, we might
> make better "shots in the dark".
>
> RC
>
>
> "sobriquet" wrote in message
>
> news:c7dd2675-784b-4d80-8032-...
>
> Hi.
> Something baffles me. Perhaps someone here can explain it.
> If I go to the properties of the C drive on my laptop, the size
> reported is smaller than the total size of the files and folders on
> drive C:http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2843/dataa.jpg
> How can the size of all selected files and folders on the C drive
> exceed the total capacity of that same C drive?
> Greetings and thanks in advance for any explanations, Niek


I have a 160 gb harddisk partitioned (roughly speaking) in 40 gb for a
vista partition, 30 gb for an xp partition and the remaining 90 gb for
a data partition (where I also have located the virtual memory).
I often have issues with partitions that are a bit too small for the
operating system and that presents a perpetual problem of the disk
getting too full and me exploring the drive for potential things to
delete to get some free diskspace.
On this laptop, I have this issue with vista, but it's hard to find
stuff in vista to delete. I guess I should have reserved 50 gb, rather
than 40 gb for the vista partition, as I have some big software
packages installed (like the adobe cs4 master collection).

In the windows explorer, I have ensured it displays hidden/system
files and folders and I determine the size of files on disk by
selecting all files and folders in C:\ and right-clicking the
selection to obtain the properties where it lists the collective size
of all the selected files and folders.

Compression is not enabled (in the properties for the C drive), and of
course there are rar and other archive files on disk, but windows is
supposed to list the compressed size of those files, so that shouldn't
result in any inconsistencies between the reported size of files and
folders on disk and the total capacity of the drive.

 
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Tim Slattery
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      08-17-2010
"R. C. White" <> wrote:

>Hi, Niek.
>
>You've told us the total size (40 GB) of your Drive C:, but not the total
>bytes reported as used by all the files and folders.


Didn't you look at the image that he linked to? It's reporting the
total size of all files and folders is *more* than the size of the
partition. I've never seen anything like that.

Is it possible that you've got a LOT of zip files, and the "total size
of all files and folders" includes the expanded size? Doesn't make a
lot of sense to me, but I don't know what else....

--
Tim Slattery

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt
 
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R. C. White
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      08-17-2010
Hi, Niek.

Ooops! Tim Slattery pointed out that you included a link in your OP. I'm
sorry that I overlooked that.

The image in your link shows 41 GB of data used on a volume with only 39 GB
capacity. Even though I can't read German, it's clear that the "Compress
files to save space" box is not checked.

Now that I've got that straight...I'm as confused as you are about how that
could happen. You've already addressed my first guesses. So I'll just
watch with you while the true techies explain it to both of us.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64


"sobriquet" wrote in message
news:1df90068-7f42-4766-81c4-...

On 15 aug, 03:48, "R. C. White" <r...@grandecom.net> wrote:
> Hi, Niek.
>
> I don't have a "for sure" answer, but there are a number of possibilities.
> Speaking of numbers, how about some? Are you talking about 200 GB of data
> on a 150 GB HDD? Or maybe 155 GB on that 150 GB disk? In other words, is
> this a giant disparity, or just a minor difference?
>
> Some of the possibilities:
>
> 1. You've chosen to let Windows compress files to save disk space.
> (It's
> a checkbox near the bottom of the Properties window.)
>
> 2. Do you use any kind of file compaction, such as RAR or ZIP files?
>
> 3. How are you determining the size of all files and folders? Might
> you
> be double-counting the contents of Libraries by counting the files once in
> their actual location and again in one or more Libraries?
>
> 4. We usually see the opposite question: "My disk is full but my files
> add up to only 80% of capacity." This is often explained by "slack space"
> wasted at the end of each file; this can add up to a half-cluster (usually
> 2
> KB) times the number of files.
>
> If you give us more details, such as the actual numbers involved, we might
> make better "shots in the dark".
>
> RC
>
> "sobriquet" wrote in message
>
> news:c7dd2675-784b-4d80-8032-...
>
> Hi.
> Something baffles me. Perhaps someone here can explain it.
> If I go to the properties of the C drive on my laptop, the size
> reported is smaller than the total size of the files and folders on
> drive C:http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2843/dataa.jpg
> How can the size of all selected files and folders on the C drive
> exceed the total capacity of that same C drive?
> Greetings and thanks in advance for any explanations, Niek


I have a 160 gb harddisk partitioned (roughly speaking) in 40 gb for a
vista partition, 30 gb for an xp partition and the remaining 90 gb for
a data partition (where I also have located the virtual memory).
I often have issues with partitions that are a bit too small for the
operating system and that presents a perpetual problem of the disk
getting too full and me exploring the drive for potential things to
delete to get some free diskspace.
On this laptop, I have this issue with vista, but it's hard to find
stuff in vista to delete. I guess I should have reserved 50 gb, rather
than 40 gb for the vista partition, as I have some big software
packages installed (like the adobe cs4 master collection).

In the windows explorer, I have ensured it displays hidden/system
files and folders and I determine the size of files on disk by
selecting all files and folders in C:\ and right-clicking the
selection to obtain the properties where it lists the collective size
of all the selected files and folders.

Compression is not enabled (in the properties for the C drive), and of
course there are rar and other archive files on disk, but windows is
supposed to list the compressed size of those files, so that shouldn't
result in any inconsistencies between the reported size of files and
folders on disk and the total capacity of the drive.

 
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R. C. White
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      08-17-2010
Hi, Tim.

Ooops! No, I hadn't looked at the link in the first message, so I owe Niek
an apology. Thanks for pointing out my oversight.

RC

--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Tim Slattery" wrote in message
news:...

"R. C. White" <> wrote:

>Hi, Niek.
>
>You've told us the total size (40 GB) of your Drive C:, but not the total
>bytes reported as used by all the files and folders.


Didn't you look at the image that he linked to? It's reporting the
total size of all files and folders is *more* than the size of the
partition. I've never seen anything like that.

Is it possible that you've got a LOT of zip files, and the "total size
of all files and folders" includes the expanded size? Doesn't make a
lot of sense to me, but I don't know what else....

--
Tim Slattery

http://members.cox.net/slatteryt

 
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Gene E. Bloch
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      08-19-2010
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:08:31 -0500, R. C. White wrote:

> Hi, Niek.
>
> Ooops! Tim Slattery pointed out that you included a link in your OP. I'm
> sorry that I overlooked that.
>
> The image in your link shows 41 GB of data used on a volume with only 39 GB
> capacity. Even though I can't read German, it's clear that the "Compress
> files to save space" box is not checked.
>
> Now that I've got that straight...I'm as confused as you are about how that
> could happen. You've already addressed my first guesses. So I'll just
> watch with you while the true techies explain it to both of us.
>
> RC


Dutch,not German.

Two ideas occur to me, but unfortunately I don't believe them :-)

There are some directories that seem to contain copies of files for
Windows's convenience. Sometimes these files remain even when the file has
been deleted. Maybe they are counted even when the original is deleted, or
even when the original is still present. I can't remember where they are,
sadly. Possibly somewhere under AppData?

Then there are the Junction Points. They are pointer-like items that
duplicate the system folders, like My Documents vs Documents (or, come to
think of it, AppData vs Application Data), the troublesome things that
users can't access and say why can't I access "My Documents". Maybe they
too lead to files being counted twice.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
 
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Gene E. Bloch
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Posts: n/a

 
      09-05-2010
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 15:28:56 -0700 (PDT), sobriquet wrote:

> On Aug 19, 2:36*am, "Gene E. Bloch" <not...@other.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:08:31 -0500, R. C. White wrote:
>>> Hi, Niek.

>>
>>> Ooops! *Tim Slattery pointed out that you included a link in your OP. *I'm
>>> sorry that I overlooked that.

>>
>>> The image in your link shows 41 GB of data used on a volume with only 39 GB
>>> capacity. *Even though I can't read German, it's clear that the "Compress
>>> files to save space" box is not checked.

>>
>>> Now that I've got that straight...I'm as confused as you are about how that
>>> could happen. *You've already addressed my first guesses. *So I'll just
>>> watch with you while the true techies explain it to both of us.

>>
>>> RC

>>
>> Dutch,not German.
>>
>> Two ideas occur to me, but unfortunately I don't believe them :-)
>>
>> There are some directories that seem to contain copies of files for
>> Windows's convenience. Sometimes these files remain even when the file has
>> been deleted. Maybe they are counted even when the original is deleted, or
>> even when the original is still present. I can't remember where they are,
>> sadly. Possibly somewhere under AppData?
>>
>> Then there are the Junction Points. They are pointer-like items that
>> duplicate the system folders, like My Documents vs Documents (or, come to
>> think of it, AppData vs Application Data), the troublesome things that
>> users can't access and say why can't I access "My Documents". Maybe they
>> too lead to files being counted twice.
>>
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

>
> The most plausible explanation I've encountered so far was given in
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage and it is that there are files with
> blocks containing 0's that don't get stored on disk in the NTFS file
> system.


I didn't believe you, so I went to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS

and went on to this section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS#Sparse_files

Now you can count me among your converts :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
 
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