Re: system restore DID delete lots of my C# code files on Vista Ultimate

Wonderful...

Pretty much most or probably all of the missing files were created after the
restore point by downloading zips and extracting into project folders under
my Documents folder. I was afraid that was what happened but documentation
claimed elsewise. I did not take a detailed inventory as I had way too many
files and I had to restore from my backups anyway.

That MSFT would delete these files is an unbelieveably horrible bug!
Especially when they claim to not touch files in that folder. And to just
rip out SOME of the files out of a project folder and not the entire folder.
What stupid Microsoft twit could possibly envision that as a "feature" is
beyond me. To arbitrarily remove files that were manually placed in a
personal folder. Just incredible.

Really really bad bug imo!

Thanks for posting Bert's reply Jabez.

I have all system restore and shadow features turned off supposedly but
there are so many bugs in Vista in areas where XP was perfectly stable I
don't trust Vista and I spend a lot of extra time backing up my images and
data and code.

One of the more irritating Vista "features" are when the views of folders
keep seemingly randomly changing even after you customize them and all their
subfolders esp. after looking at a folder with jpg files in them. I have to
reset the folder customizations a lot in order to see the size and last
modified attributes!

Attached below in the scenario of what happened regarding system restore
trashing my files and would suggest any further discussion be in the
vista.file_management group as the general groups is way to "noisy".

Thanks again,
Dave

[summary of how my files got deleted by system "restore" - what a joke!]

I run a fairly stout system and have 3 x 320G drives where C: is my boot
drive, D: is my backup drive and E: is my copy of the backup drive that I
swap offsite with a 4th 320G drive that is also E: so as to have the running
image, several full and differential backups on D: and then 2 copies of the

D: drive rotated offsite each week.



Don't think I want to repro this again but what happened to the best of my
memory and my change logs was:

10/19 did a full acronis true image backup - was about 36G for the backup
image

10/19 installed MSFT updates and VS2008 and did a differential backup for
about 10G

10/20-10/24 downloaded and unzipped several WWF examples and compiled and
ran them fine. Also created my own project for WWF and created several
csharp files

10/24 installed MSFT updates including some drivers for silicon image sata
controller and then worked on my project some more.

10/25 Noticed my 3rd 320G sata drive that I rotate for backups was no longer
described as a removable drive like the other 2 which I don't swap so I
figured I had a bad driver from the updates and since my full image was a
bit old

10/25 did a differential backup for about 18.5G SInce my last differential
was AFTER I found the non removable drive problem I did a system restore
from the checkpoint made on 10/24 which should have been made before updates
were applied

10/25 went to compile my project and noticed all my .CS files were missing.

Found that ALL the .CS files were missing from all the projects I had
recently added over the last 4 days. All these file were under
MyDocuments\VS2008.

updates installed on 10/24 still showed they were present after the system
restore

10/26 did a differential backup and this time it was only 8.9G so almost 10G
of data had been deleted by the system restore! Stuff besides the .CS files
also had been deleted but I did not bother much to note what they were since
I now totally distrusted my filesystem.

10/26 backed up all meaningful data I had changed since the 10/25
differential backup and did a full volume restore thru the 10/25
differential then manually added back the files I had changed including
fortunately a manual backup copy of my project I had placed on my backup
drive. In the end I lost a few .CS files but they were only samples and I
can reload them from the internet but at least am back to a solid image and
have my source code I worked on for 4 days.

BTW, there is also a horrible problem with IIS using old files from a
website if the files are replaced or the folder replaced as IIS uses the old
files from the shadow copies.



I have totally disabled all aspects of system resore and shadow copies as I
think they are much more dangerous than useful. I would much prefer that
MSFT supplied a decent backup system.



[end of summary]


"Jabez Gan [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:CFBF1E54-879E-4A9A-8C5B-...
> From Bert's post in the .General NG:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> File type (.cs) is monitored by System Restore. How far back did you
> restore
> the system? And were the files there prier to the creation of the restore
> point the system was restored to?
>
> And in Vista, the Documents folder is not exempt from System Restore as
> the
> My Documents folder was in XP.
>
> If the files removed by System Restore were not backed up, you can preform
> a
> undo restore to get them back. Then restore back to just before the
> problem
> driver was installed.
>
> Regards,
> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
> http://bertk.mvps.org
> Member: http://dts-l.org
>
>
> --
> Jabez Gan
> Microsoft MVP: Windows Server - File Storage
> "Dave" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Bert. Appreciate the reply. Could you post here? Way too much noise in
>> that other group and it has scrolled away and I can't seem to get the
>> older messages.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
>> "Bert Kinney" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Hi Jabez,
>>>
>>> See my reply to Dave in Windows.Vista.General.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
>>> http://bertk.mvps.org
>>> Member: http://dts-l.org
>>>
>>>
>>> Jabez Gan [MVP] wrote:
>>>> Hey Dave,
>>>>
>>>> I got to agree that this is a bad bug in Vista...
>>>>
>>>> But if you system restore back to the latest state just to retrieve the
>>>> files, does it work?
>>>>
>>>> Also if you can provide me with full information, I can make sure that
>>>> MS knows about this bug. Feel free to email me with the following
>>>> details:
>>>>
>>>> Description of the problem
>>>> Repro steps
>>>> Your Vista version
>>>>
>>
>

Hey Dave,

Just in case you missed this,
https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/ar...ble-files.aspx

It lists the extensions which are monitored and the reason why MS is
monitoring Documents folder. Valid reasons they got there.

Guess that's by design (altho that's heck lot of extensions being monitored
by Vista).

--
Jabez Gan
Microsoft MVP: Windows Server - File Storage
"Dave" <> wrote in message
news:%...
> Wonderful...
>
> Pretty much most or probably all of the missing files were created after
> the restore point by downloading zips and extracting into project folders
> under my Documents folder. I was afraid that was what happened but
> documentation claimed elsewise. I did not take a detailed inventory as I
> had way too many files and I had to restore from my backups anyway.
>
> That MSFT would delete these files is an unbelieveably horrible bug!
> Especially when they claim to not touch files in that folder. And to just
> rip out SOME of the files out of a project folder and not the entire
> folder. What stupid Microsoft twit could possibly envision that as a
> "feature" is beyond me. To arbitrarily remove files that were manually
> placed in a personal folder. Just incredible.
>
> Really really bad bug imo!
>
> Thanks for posting Bert's reply Jabez.
>
> I have all system restore and shadow features turned off supposedly but
> there are so many bugs in Vista in areas where XP was perfectly stable I
> don't trust Vista and I spend a lot of extra time backing up my images and
> data and code.
>
> One of the more irritating Vista "features" are when the views of folders
> keep seemingly randomly changing even after you customize them and all
> their subfolders esp. after looking at a folder with jpg files in them. I
> have to reset the folder customizations a lot in order to see the size and
> last modified attributes!
>
> Attached below in the scenario of what happened regarding system restore
> trashing my files and would suggest any further discussion be in the
> vista.file_management group as the general groups is way to "noisy".
>
> Thanks again,
> Dave
>
> [summary of how my files got deleted by system "restore" - what a joke!]
>
> I run a fairly stout system and have 3 x 320G drives where C: is my boot
> drive, D: is my backup drive and E: is my copy of the backup drive that I
> swap offsite with a 4th 320G drive that is also E: so as to have the
> running image, several full and differential backups on D: and then 2
> copies of the
>
> D: drive rotated offsite each week.
>
>
>
> Don't think I want to repro this again but what happened to the best of my
> memory and my change logs was:
>
> 10/19 did a full acronis true image backup - was about 36G for the backup
> image
>
> 10/19 installed MSFT updates and VS2008 and did a differential backup for
> about 10G
>
> 10/20-10/24 downloaded and unzipped several WWF examples and compiled and
> ran them fine. Also created my own project for WWF and created several
> csharp files
>
> 10/24 installed MSFT updates including some drivers for silicon image sata
> controller and then worked on my project some more.
>
> 10/25 Noticed my 3rd 320G sata drive that I rotate for backups was no
> longer described as a removable drive like the other 2 which I don't swap
> so I figured I had a bad driver from the updates and since my full image
> was a bit old
>
> 10/25 did a differential backup for about 18.5G SInce my last differential
> was AFTER I found the non removable drive problem I did a system restore
> from the checkpoint made on 10/24 which should have been made before
> updates were applied
>
> 10/25 went to compile my project and noticed all my .CS files were
> missing.
>
> Found that ALL the .CS files were missing from all the projects I had
> recently added over the last 4 days. All these file were under
> MyDocuments\VS2008.
>
> updates installed on 10/24 still showed they were present after the system
> restore
>
> 10/26 did a differential backup and this time it was only 8.9G so almost
> 10G of data had been deleted by the system restore! Stuff besides the .CS
> files also had been deleted but I did not bother much to note what they
> were since I now totally distrusted my filesystem.
>
> 10/26 backed up all meaningful data I had changed since the 10/25
> differential backup and did a full volume restore thru the 10/25
> differential then manually added back the files I had changed including
> fortunately a manual backup copy of my project I had placed on my backup
> drive. In the end I lost a few .CS files but they were only samples and I
> can reload them from the internet but at least am back to a solid image
> and have my source code I worked on for 4 days.
>
> BTW, there is also a horrible problem with IIS using old files from a
> website if the files are replaced or the folder replaced as IIS uses the
> old files from the shadow copies.
>
>
>
> I have totally disabled all aspects of system resore and shadow copies as
> I think they are much more dangerous than useful. I would much prefer that
> MSFT supplied a decent backup system.
>
>
>
> [end of summary]
>
>
> "Jabez Gan [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:CFBF1E54-879E-4A9A-8C5B-...
>> From Bert's post in the .General NG:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> File type (.cs) is monitored by System Restore. How far back did you
>> restore
>> the system? And were the files there prier to the creation of the restore
>> point the system was restored to?
>>
>> And in Vista, the Documents folder is not exempt from System Restore as
>> the
>> My Documents folder was in XP.
>>
>> If the files removed by System Restore were not backed up, you can
>> preform a
>> undo restore to get them back. Then restore back to just before the
>> problem
>> driver was installed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://bertk.mvps.org
>> Member: http://dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jabez Gan
>> Microsoft MVP: Windows Server - File Storage
>> "Dave" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Bert. Appreciate the reply. Could you post here? Way too much noise in
>>> that other group and it has scrolled away and I can't seem to get the
>>> older messages.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> "Bert Kinney" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> Hi Jabez,
>>>>
>>>> See my reply to Dave in Windows.Vista.General.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
>>>> http://bertk.mvps.org
>>>> Member: http://dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jabez Gan [MVP] wrote:
>>>>> Hey Dave,
>>>>>
>>>>> I got to agree that this is a bad bug in Vista...
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you system restore back to the latest state just to retrieve
>>>>> the files, does it work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also if you can provide me with full information, I can make sure that
>>>>> MS knows about this bug. Feel free to email me with the following
>>>>> details:
>>>>>
>>>>> Description of the problem
>>>>> Repro steps
>>>>> Your Vista version
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Dave wrote:
> Wonderful...
>
> Pretty much most or probably all of the missing files were created after
> the restore point by downloading zips and extracting into project
> folders under my Documents folder. I was afraid that was what happened
> but documentation claimed elsewise. I did not take a detailed inventory
> as I had way too many files and I had to restore from my backups anyway.

As you now know, monitored file types are monitored in the Documents folder
in Vista. The only safe place to keep monitored file types is to store them
on and unmonitored drive/partition.

> That MSFT would delete these files is an unbelieveably horrible bug!
> Especially when they claim to not touch files in that folder. And to
> just rip out SOME of the files out of a project folder and not the
> entire folder. What stupid Microsoft twit could possibly envision that
> as a "feature" is beyond me. To arbitrarily remove files that were
> manually placed in a personal folder. Just incredible.
>
> Really really bad bug imo!

This is not a bug, this is by deign to help protect the system against
malicious system type files.

> Thanks for posting Bert's reply Jabez.
>
> I have all system restore and shadow features turned off supposedly but
> there are so many bugs in Vista in areas where XP was perfectly stable I
> don't trust Vista and I spend a lot of extra time backing up my images
> and data and code.

By turning System Restore off, you lost the ability to recover the missing
files from within Vista.

> One of the more irritating Vista "features" are when the views of
> folders keep seemingly randomly changing even after you customize them
> and all their subfolders esp. after looking at a folder with jpg files
> in them. I have to reset the folder customizations a lot in order to see
> the size and last modified attributes!

I see this also, and it is very irritating.

> Attached below in the scenario of what happened regarding system restore
> trashing my files and would suggest any further discussion be in the
> vista.file_management group as the general groups is way to "noisy".
>
> Thanks again,
> Dave
>
> [summary of how my files got deleted by system "restore" - what a joke!]
>
> I run a fairly stout system and have 3 x 320G drives where C: is my boot
> drive, D: is my backup drive and E: is my copy of the backup drive that
> I swap offsite with a 4th 320G drive that is also E: so as to have the
> running image, several full and differential backups on D: and then 2
> copies of the
>
> D: drive rotated offsite each week.
>
>
>
> Don't think I want to repro this again but what happened to the best of
> my memory and my change logs was:
>
> 10/19 did a full acronis true image backup - was about 36G for the
> backup image
>
> 10/19 installed MSFT updates and VS2008 and did a differential backup
> for about 10G
>
> 10/20-10/24 downloaded and unzipped several WWF examples and compiled
> and ran them fine. Also created my own project for WWF and created
> several csharp files
>
> 10/24 installed MSFT updates including some drivers for silicon image
> sata controller and then worked on my project some more.
>
> 10/25 Noticed my 3rd 320G sata drive that I rotate for backups was no
> longer described as a removable drive like the other 2 which I don't
> swap so I figured I had a bad driver from the updates and since my full
> image was a bit old
>
> 10/25 did a differential backup for about 18.5G SInce my last
> differential was AFTER I found the non removable drive problem I did a
> system restore from the checkpoint made on 10/24 which should have been
> made before updates were applied
>
> 10/25 went to compile my project and noticed all my .CS files were missing.
>
> Found that ALL the .CS files were missing from all the projects I had
> recently added over the last 4 days. All these file were under
> MyDocuments\VS2008.
>
> updates installed on 10/24 still showed they were present after the
> system restore
>
> 10/26 did a differential backup and this time it was only 8.9G so almost
> 10G of data had been deleted by the system restore! Stuff besides the
> .CS files also had been deleted but I did not bother much to note what
> they were since I now totally distrusted my filesystem.
>
> 10/26 backed up all meaningful data I had changed since the 10/25
> differential backup and did a full volume restore thru the 10/25
> differential then manually added back the files I had changed including
> fortunately a manual backup copy of my project I had placed on my backup
> drive. In the end I lost a few .CS files but they were only samples and
> I can reload them from the internet but at least am back to a solid
> image and have my source code I worked on for 4 days.
>
> BTW, there is also a horrible problem with IIS using old files from a
> website if the files are replaced or the folder replaced as IIS uses the
> old files from the shadow copies.
>
>
>
> I have totally disabled all aspects of system resore and shadow copies
> as I think they are much more dangerous than useful. I would much prefer
> that MSFT supplied a decent backup system.
>

Disabling System Restore whipped out all restore point and previous version.

Third party backup utilities have always been a better choice.

>
> [end of summary]


Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org


>
> "Jabez Gan [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:CFBF1E54-879E-4A9A-8C5B-...
>> From Bert's post in the .General NG:
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> File type (.cs) is monitored by System Restore. How far back did you
>> restore
>> the system? And were the files there prier to the creation of the restore
>> point the system was restored to?
>>
>> And in Vista, the Documents folder is not exempt from System Restore
>> as the
>> My Documents folder was in XP.
>>
>> If the files removed by System Restore were not backed up, you can
>> preform a
>> undo restore to get them back. Then restore back to just before the
>> problem
>> driver was installed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
>> http://bertk.mvps.org
>> Member: http://dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jabez Gan
>> Microsoft MVP: Windows Server - File Storage
>> "Dave" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Bert. Appreciate the reply. Could you post here? Way too much noise
>>> in that other group and it has scrolled away and I can't seem to get
>>> the older messages.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> "Bert Kinney" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> Hi Jabez,
>>>>
>>>> See my reply to Dave in Windows.Vista.General.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
>>>> http://bertk.mvps.org
>>>> Member: http://dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jabez Gan [MVP] wrote:
>>>>> Hey Dave,
>>>>>
>>>>> I got to agree that this is a bad bug in Vista...
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you system restore back to the latest state just to retrieve
>>>>> the files, does it work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also if you can provide me with full information, I can make sure
>>>>> that MS knows about this bug. Feel free to email me with the
>>>>> following details:
>>>>>
>>>>> Description of the problem
>>>>> Repro steps
>>>>> Your Vista version

Thanks for that link Jabez!

Here is what the Vista Help says.

"System Restore uses restore points to return your system files and
settings to an earlier point in time, without affecting personal
files."

What types of files does System Restore change?

System Restore can make changes to Windows system files, registry
settings, and programs installed on your computer. It also can make
changes to scripts, batch files, and other types of executable files on your
computer. Personal files, such as documents, e-mail, photos, and music
files, are not changed.

For example, if you download a personal file, such as a photo from a
digital camera, on a Friday and then restore your computer to the
state it was in two days earlier on Wednesday, the photo will still be on
your computer.

However, if you install a photo viewing program on a Friday and then
restore your computer to the state it was in two days earlier on
Wednesday, System Restore will uninstall the program, and you won't be able
to use that program to view photos.

Files I unzip into my Documents folder I consider "personal". And I had not
"installed" anything and they were not executable.

I still contend some young twit that's been computing all of a couple years
got to decide this was a "feature" when it was in fact a horrible idea.

If they want to claim this as a system "snapshot" that rolls back all
changes form the checkpoint then say that as that would be a fine feature
but don't be random and vague and arbitrary about it so one does not know
what the heck they deleted.

Deleting .cs files out of a folder that was created by unzipping and leaving
other things there is braind dead no matter how you look at it.

Dave

"Jabez Gan [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:037F2642-042B-4F5F-863A-...

> Hey Dave,
>
> Just in case you missed this,
> https://blogs.technet.com/filecab/ar...ble-files.aspx
>
> It lists the extensions which are monitored and the reason why MS is
> monitoring Documents folder. Valid reasons they got there.
>
> Guess that's by design (altho that's heck lot of extensions being
> monitored by Vista).

"Bert Kinney" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> Dave wrote:
>> Wonderful...
>>
>> Pretty much most or probably all of the missing files were created after
>> the restore point by downloading zips and extracting into project folders
>> under my Documents folder. I was afraid that was what happened but
>> documentation claimed elsewise. I did not take a detailed inventory as I
>> had way too many files and I had to restore from my backups anyway.
>
> As you now know, monitored file types are monitored in the Documents
> folder in Vista. The only safe place to keep monitored file types is to
> store them on and unmonitored drive/partition.

Luckily I had made a backup of my source code I had been editing onto
another couple drives. I just don't trust the VIsta file system as I had
severe problems with IIS using old shadow copies as well when files and
folders were replaced.

>> That MSFT would delete these files is an unbelieveably horrible bug!
>> Especially when they claim to not touch files in that folder. And to just
>> rip out SOME of the files out of a project folder and not the entire
>> folder. What stupid Microsoft twit could possibly envision that as a
>> "feature" is beyond me. To arbitrarily remove files that were manually
>> placed in a personal folder. Just incredible.
>>
>> Really really bad bug imo!
>
> This is not a bug, this is by deign to help protect the system against
> malicious system type files.

Perhaps by design but even so a bug since poorly designed and very dangerous
as they claim to not touch "personal files" and only "installed" and
"Executable" files none of which describe the .cs files I unzipped and they
deleted. If they want to call it a rollback to a checkpoint, which would be
a fine feature, then they should do and say exactly that but not be vague,
arbitrary and misleading when describing what system restore does and then
basically randomly delete some files at their undocumented whim out of an
unzipped folder that was created since the checkpoint yer not all of the
files or the folders since. That is just pure and simple brain dead by
someone very inexpeienced in computers and IT and software development and
life in general. And I was certainly not told in Vista or Ssytem Resore help
they would delete these sort of files and was strongly and clearly led to
believe they absolutely would not delete them.

- Dave

Dave wrote:
>
> "Bert Kinney" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>>
>> Dave wrote:
>>> Wonderful...
>>>
>>> Pretty much most or probably all of the missing files were created
>>> after the restore point by downloading zips and extracting into
>>> project folders under my Documents folder. I was afraid that was what
>>> happened but documentation claimed elsewise. I did not take a
>>> detailed inventory as I had way too many files and I had to restore
>>> from my backups anyway.
>>
>> As you now know, monitored file types are monitored in the Documents
>> folder in Vista. The only safe place to keep monitored file types is
>> to store them on and unmonitored drive/partition.
>
> Luckily I had made a backup of my source code I had been editing onto
> another couple drives. I just don't trust the VIsta file system as I had
> severe problems with IIS using old shadow copies as well when files and
> folders were replaced.
>
>>> That MSFT would delete these files is an unbelieveably horrible bug!
>>> Especially when they claim to not touch files in that folder. And to
>>> just rip out SOME of the files out of a project folder and not the
>>> entire folder. What stupid Microsoft twit could possibly envision
>>> that as a "feature" is beyond me. To arbitrarily remove files that
>>> were manually placed in a personal folder. Just incredible.
>>>
>>> Really really bad bug imo!
>>
>> This is not a bug, this is by deign to help protect the system against
>> malicious system type files.
>
> Perhaps by design but even so a bug since poorly designed and very
> dangerous as they claim to not touch "personal files" and only
> "installed" and "Executable" files none of which describe the .cs files
> I unzipped and they deleted. If they want to call it a rollback to a
> checkpoint, which would be a fine feature, then they should do and say
> exactly that but not be vague, arbitrary and misleading when describing
> what system restore does and then basically randomly delete some files
> at their undocumented whim out of an unzipped folder that was created
> since the checkpoint yer not all of the files or the folders since. That
> is just pure and simple brain dead by someone very inexpeienced in
> computers and IT and software development and life in general. And I was
> certainly not told in Vista or Ssytem Resore help they would delete
> these sort of files and was strongly and clearly led to believe they
> absolutely would not delete them.
>
> - Dave

I agree with you. And the sad point is that information, particularly
technical information is not being released for Vista as it was in XP early
in the game.


Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org