Re: Vista not allowing you to delete/rename certain files

"Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
news:6012b084-821e-4cdd-90f7-...
> I think I know what happened. When you drag a file from Windows
> Explorer (WE) to the desktop, it MOVES the file - it doesn't
> automatically create a shortcut. I must have moved explorer.exe from
> WE to the desktop and when I renamed it, I renamed the actual file and
> not just a shortcut. Then Windows couldn't find explorer.exe and
> wouldn't boot.
>
> I don't remember dragging explorer.exe from WE, but it's the only
> explanation I can think of.
>
> If you drag a program from the start menu to the desktop, it will
> always create a shortcut.
>
> Although this was my own fault, I think it's wrong that Vista allows
> users to move or rename explorer.exe. It should safeguard against it,
> because otherwise you can't boot at all.

I have just tried to replicate your actions.
First with UAC on:
Left-click and dragging Explorer.exe from Windows folder to the Desktop
results in a dialog box opening saying:
" You'll need to provide Administrators permission to move this file "
Clicking ok results in the Desktop going dark and the UAC box appearing.
On clicking ' Continue' another box opens up:
" Destination folder access denied ", " Try Again? ".
Clicking ' Try Again ' just re-writes the box.

Right-clicking and dragging results in the Move, Copy or Create a shortcut options.
Move is blocked as above, Copy and Create a shortcut work.
So you can't move Explorer.exe with UAC on.

Next with UAC off:
Left-click and dragging Explorer.exe from Windows folder to the Desktop
results in a dialog box opening saying:
" Destination folder access denied ", " Try Again? ".
Clicking ' Try Again ' just re-writes the box.

Right-clicking and dragging results in the Move, Copy or Create a shortcut options.
Move is blocked as above, Copy and Create a shortcut work.
So you can't move Explorer.exe with UAC off.

So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
you must have used some other method.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT), Richard Fangnail wrote:

> On Jul 21, 11:57*am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>
>
>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
> permissions etc.

Not likely, in this instance.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>
>
>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
> permissions etc.

Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?

"Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> "Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
> news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
>> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
>> permissions etc.
>
> Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
> to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?
>
>
I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.

--
Zaphod

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.

"Zaphod Beeblebrox" <> wrote in message news:h472ud$eem$...
>
> "Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>>
>>
>> "Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
>> news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
>>> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>>>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
>>> permissions etc.
>>
>> Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
>> to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?
>>
>>
> I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
> approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
> allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.
>
> --
> Zaphod

I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
System=Read & Execute , Read.
Users=Read & Execute , Read.
TrustedInstaller=Full Control.

So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:16 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:

> "Zaphod Beeblebrox" <> wrote in message news:h472ud$eem$...
>>
>> "Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
>>> news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
>>>> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>>>>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
>>>> permissions etc.
>>>
>>> Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
>>> to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?
>>>
>>>
>> I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
>> approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
>> allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.
>>
>> --
>> Zaphod
>
> I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
> Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
> System=Read & Execute , Read.
> Users=Read & Execute , Read.
> TrustedInstaller=Full Control.
>
> So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
> I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
> boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.

But Zaphod referred to *the* administrator account. This is not the same
thing as *an* administrator account.

Microsoft made an unfortunate choice of terminology here. What they refer
to as "an administrator account" is really "an account with *some*
administrator privileges", and should be called by a less confusing name,
such as an "elevated account" or a "privileged account".

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Gene E. Bloch" <not-> wrote in message news:6ex6fda44p7o$....
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:16 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:
>
>> "Zaphod Beeblebrox" <> wrote in message news:h472ud$eem$...
>>>
>>> "Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
>>>>> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>>>>>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
>>>>> permissions etc.
>>>>
>>>> Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
>>>> to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
>>> approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
>>> allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zaphod
>>
>> I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
>> Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
>> System=Read & Execute , Read.
>> Users=Read & Execute , Read.
>> TrustedInstaller=Full Control.
>>
>> So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
>> I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
>> boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.
>
> But Zaphod referred to *the* administrator account. This is not the same
> thing as *an* administrator account.
>
> Microsoft made an unfortunate choice of terminology here. What they refer
> to as "an administrator account" is really "an account with *some*
> administrator privileges", and should be called by a less confusing name,
> such as an "elevated account" or a "privileged account".
>
> --
> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

Well, I created the 'super' admin account with an elevated command prompt:
net user administrator /active:yes
and running this account, with UAC off, I still get an 'Access denied' box opening
when trying to move Explorer.exe. Same thing, 'Access denied' when trying to
rename it.
It looks like the 'super' administrator is not so super, just another administrator account.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:25:29 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:

> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-> wrote in message news:6ex6fda44p7o$....
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:16 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:
>>
>>> "Zaphod Beeblebrox" <> wrote in message news:h472ud$eem$...
>>>>
>>>> "Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <> wrote in message
>>>>> news:584303bd-3b43-4b1f-8689-...
>>>>>> On Jul 21, 11:57 am, "Dave-UK" <h...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Richard Fangnail" <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
>>>>>>> you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
>>>>>> permissions etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
>>>>> to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
>>>> approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
>>>> allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Zaphod
>>>
>>> I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
>>> Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
>>> System=Read & Execute , Read.
>>> Users=Read & Execute , Read.
>>> TrustedInstaller=Full Control.
>>>
>>> So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
>>> I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
>>> boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.
>>
>> But Zaphod referred to *the* administrator account. This is not the same
>> thing as *an* administrator account.
>>
>> Microsoft made an unfortunate choice of terminology here. What they refer
>> to as "an administrator account" is really "an account with *some*
>> administrator privileges", and should be called by a less confusing name,
>> such as an "elevated account" or a "privileged account".
>>
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom
>
> Well, I created the 'super' admin account with an elevated command prompt:
> net user administrator /active:yes
> and running this account, with UAC off, I still get an 'Access denied' box opening
> when trying to move Explorer.exe. Same thing, 'Access denied' when trying to
> rename it.
> It looks like the 'super' administrator is not so super, just another administrator account.

Actually, it *is* super and is *not* just another administrator account.
However, possible reasons for your experience are that even the superuser
(old Unix terminology) is limited when it comes to trying to mess up your
computer, or that explorer is running when you're trying to move it. Or if
there is another reason, it is a total mystery to me, to be honest...

But these do not explain Richard Fangnail's experience.

If I learn anything new, believable, and helpful, I'll post again.
Otherwise, I've used enough bandwidth for now :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom