Re: Why Can't I Play old dos games in vista?

rodney williams wrote:
> Ok when i try to play my old dos games it says sorry does not support
> full screen mode is there anyway that i can fix the system so i can
> play my dos games in full screen please i need help.

Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.

"HeyBub" <> wrote ...
> Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.

That is incorrect. What is your reason for claiming that Vista does not run
16 bit applications?

32-bit Vista runs 16 bit applications using the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS
Manchine") and, for 16-bit Windows apps, the WoW (Windows-on-Windows)
thunking layer.

Because of changes in the display model, Vista running with WDDM drivers
canot display character-mode applications full-screen. If (and only if) an
application requires full screen access to run, it cannot run on Vista; or
it must be run in an emulator like DosBox, as Synapse Syndrome correctly
suggests. Vista using a non-WDDM display driver can also display DOS apps
full screen (although this is not a recommended solution for the OP).

DOS applications can run just fine in a Window; likewise 16 Windows apps.
For example, I always run a copy of VisiCalc.com (c.1981) on every new
version of Windows, to test backwards compatibility. It runs fine on Vista.

64-bit Vista cannot run any 16 bit applications. This is an architectural
limitation of the CPU, and is also true for 64 bit XP and Server 2003.

Any DOS or Win3.x application is subject to all the usual compatibility
constraints when running on NT (eg cannot directly write to hardware
adresses etc). But apart from that, Vista has the same 16 bit compatiblity
as XP, Windows 2000 and NT 4.0 (in fact somewhat better, because there have
been numerous bug fixes to the NTVDM since NT 4.0).

Your statement is either wrong, or else you omitted important caveats
("Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all. on 64 bit Vista. But 32 bit Vista
is fine"; etc).

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

Andrew McLaren wrote:
> "HeyBub" <> wrote ...
>> Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.
>
> That is incorrect. What is your reason for claiming that Vista does
> not run 16 bit applications?

Vista WILL run some 16-bit applications. You are correct. I was taking my
clue from:

"This symptom only applies to 32-bit versions of Windows Vista. 16-bit
programs are not supported on 64-bit versions of Windows Vista."

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926657

Hi Andrew You sound as if you know a little about this stuff
I have an origional Myst game (windows'95 I think) Will this be ok to play
on my new laptop which supports vista home premium, will I need to change any
settings? I'm a bit nervous of installing something that may disrupt
everything
Ta

"Andrew McLaren" wrote:

> "HeyBub" <> wrote ...
> > Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.
>
> That is incorrect. What is your reason for claiming that Vista does not run
> 16 bit applications?
>
> 32-bit Vista runs 16 bit applications using the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS
> Manchine") and, for 16-bit Windows apps, the WoW (Windows-on-Windows)
> thunking layer.
>
> Because of changes in the display model, Vista running with WDDM drivers
> canot display character-mode applications full-screen. If (and only if) an
> application requires full screen access to run, it cannot run on Vista; or
> it must be run in an emulator like DosBox, as Synapse Syndrome correctly
> suggests. Vista using a non-WDDM display driver can also display DOS apps
> full screen (although this is not a recommended solution for the OP).
>
> DOS applications can run just fine in a Window; likewise 16 Windows apps.
> For example, I always run a copy of VisiCalc.com (c.1981) on every new
> version of Windows, to test backwards compatibility. It runs fine on Vista.
>
> 64-bit Vista cannot run any 16 bit applications. This is an architectural
> limitation of the CPU, and is also true for 64 bit XP and Server 2003.
>
> Any DOS or Win3.x application is subject to all the usual compatibility
> constraints when running on NT (eg cannot directly write to hardware
> adresses etc). But apart from that, Vista has the same 16 bit compatiblity
> as XP, Windows 2000 and NT 4.0 (in fact somewhat better, because there have
> been numerous bug fixes to the NTVDM since NT 4.0).
>
> Your statement is either wrong, or else you omitted important caveats
> ("Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all. on 64 bit Vista. But 32 bit Vista
> is fine"; etc).
>
> --
> Andrew McLaren
> amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au
>
>

Hi Penny

> You sound as if you know a little about this stuff

Heh, don't be fooled :-)

> I have an origional Myst game (windows'95 I think) Will this be ok to play
> on my new laptop which supports vista home premium, will I need to change
> any
> settings? I'm a bit nervous of installing something that may disrupt

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to install Myst, without messing up anything
else. To be absolutely sure, create restore point, before you install Myst:

- go to Start menu
- select Control Panel
- select "System and Maintenance"
- select item "System"
- click on "System Protection" in left margin
- enter administrator credentials if propmted
- the "System Properties"panel will appear, with "System Protection" already
selected
- press the "Create" button, to cretae a system restore point.
- give it a name like "Before Myst" or similar
- press the Create button
- system will chugg away for a few moments, creating the restore point.

With a restore point safely created, you'll be able to easily roll back your
system, in the unlikely event that installing Myst does cause any disruption
to your system.

To roll back:
- go to Start menu
- in "Start Search" filed", type "system restore"
- select the "System Restore" program item
- teh System Restore Wizard will start. Just follow the bouncing ball,
selecting your restore point "Before Myst" to undo all the changes.

But hopefully, Myst will just install, and uninstall, normally.

As to whether Myst will actually *run* on Vista ... um sorry, I dunno. I
don't play computer games, so I have no first-hand expereince. You may need
to check out some of the Myst user forums to see what people's experience
has been.

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

On Oct 9, 8:46 am, Penny <Pe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi Andrew You sound as if you know a little about this stuff
> I have an origional Myst game (windows'95 I think) Will this be ok to play
> on my new laptop which supports vista home premium, will I need to change any
> settings? I'm a bit nervous of installing something that may disrupt
> everything
> Ta
>
>
>
> "Andrew McLaren" wrote:
> > "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote ...
> > > Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.
>
> > That is incorrect. What is your reason for claiming that Vista does not run
> > 16 bit applications?
>
> > 32-bit Vista runs 16 bit applications using the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS
> > Manchine") and, for 16-bit Windows apps, the WoW (Windows-on-Windows)
> > thunking layer.
>
> > Because of changes in the display model, Vista running with WDDM drivers
> > canot display character-mode applications full-screen. If (and only if) an
> > application requires full screen access to run, it cannot run on Vista; or
> > it must be run in an emulator likeDosBox, as Synapse Syndrome correctly
> > suggests. Vista using a non-WDDM display driver can also display DOS apps
> > full screen (although this is not a recommended solution for the OP).
>
> > DOS applications can run just fine in a Window; likewise 16 Windows apps.
> > For example, I always run a copy of VisiCalc.com (c.1981) on every new
> > version of Windows, to test backwards compatibility. It runs fine on Vista.
>
> > 64-bit Vista cannot run any 16 bit applications. This is an architectural
> > limitation of the CPU, and is also true for 64 bit XP and Server 2003.
>
> > Any DOS or Win3.x application is subject to all the usual compatibility
> > constraints when running on NT (eg cannot directly write to hardware
> > adresses etc). But apart from that, Vista has the same 16 bit compatiblity
> > as XP, Windows 2000 and NT 4.0 (in fact somewhat better, because there have
> > been numerous bug fixes to the NTVDM since NT 4.0).
>
> > Your statement is either wrong, or else you omitted important caveats
> > ("Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all. on 64 bit Vista. But 32 bit Vista
> > is fine"; etc).
>
> > --
> > Andrew McLaren
> > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The problem with Myst and the other Myst games is that they use
Quicktime. (Which is bad). If you have a newer version of Quicktime
than the one that came with Myst (Quicktime v2 or v3?) then you may
have problems. For those games that don't like never versions of
Quicktime I usually just run them in Vmware/VPC/Qemu.

Also the DOS 16 bit subsystem is not supported in Vista. Best you play them
in VM with Windows 95 installed. Just download the free Virtual PC 2007 and
install Windows 95 and your favorite DOS games.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry
<> wrote in message
news: ups.com...
> On Oct 9, 8:46 am, Penny <Pe...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> Hi Andrew You sound as if you know a little about this stuff
>> I have an origional Myst game (windows'95 I think) Will this be ok to
>> play
>> on my new laptop which supports vista home premium, will I need to change
>> any
>> settings? I'm a bit nervous of installing something that may disrupt
>> everything
>> Ta
>>
>>
>>
>> "Andrew McLaren" wrote:
>> > "HeyBub" <hey...@gmail.com> wrote ...
>> > > Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all.
>>
>> > That is incorrect. What is your reason for claiming that Vista does not
>> > run
>> > 16 bit applications?
>>
>> > 32-bit Vista runs 16 bit applications using the NTVDM ("NT Virtual DOS
>> > Manchine") and, for 16-bit Windows apps, the WoW (Windows-on-Windows)
>> > thunking layer.
>>
>> > Because of changes in the display model, Vista running with WDDM
>> > drivers
>> > canot display character-mode applications full-screen. If (and only if)
>> > an
>> > application requires full screen access to run, it cannot run on Vista;
>> > or
>> > it must be run in an emulator likeDosBox, as Synapse Syndrome correctly
>> > suggests. Vista using a non-WDDM display driver can also display DOS
>> > apps
>> > full screen (although this is not a recommended solution for the OP).
>>
>> > DOS applications can run just fine in a Window; likewise 16 Windows
>> > apps.
>> > For example, I always run a copy of VisiCalc.com (c.1981) on every new
>> > version of Windows, to test backwards compatibility. It runs fine on
>> > Vista.
>>
>> > 64-bit Vista cannot run any 16 bit applications. This is an
>> > architectural
>> > limitation of the CPU, and is also true for 64 bit XP and Server 2003.
>>
>> > Any DOS or Win3.x application is subject to all the usual compatibility
>> > constraints when running on NT (eg cannot directly write to hardware
>> > adresses etc). But apart from that, Vista has the same 16 bit
>> > compatiblity
>> > as XP, Windows 2000 and NT 4.0 (in fact somewhat better, because there
>> > have
>> > been numerous bug fixes to the NTVDM since NT 4.0).
>>
>> > Your statement is either wrong, or else you omitted important caveats
>> > ("Vista doesn't do 16-bit stuff. At all. on 64 bit Vista. But 32 bit
>> > Vista
>> > is fine"; etc).
>>
>> > --
>> > Andrew McLaren
>> > amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The problem with Myst and the other Myst games is that they use
> Quicktime. (Which is bad). If you have a newer version of Quicktime
> than the one that came with Myst (Quicktime v2 or v3?) then you may
> have problems. For those games that don't like never versions of
> Quicktime I usually just run them in Vmware/VPC/Qemu.
>
>

"Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" <> wrote ...

> Also the DOS 16 bit subsystem is not supported in Vista. Best you play
> them in VM with Windows 95 installed. Just download the free Virtual PC
> 2007 and install Windows 95 and your favorite DOS games.

Hi Andre

This is a common misapprehension - but with respect, it is wrong. This kind
of misleading information should not be put out to the public.

The 16-bit Subsystem, in the form of NTVDM (NT Virtual DOS Machine) and
16-bit WoW (Windows on Windows) are present by default in 32-bit Vista, and
are fully supported by Microsoft. In general terms, 16-bit applications run
fine on 32-bit Vista. There may be specific compatibility issues, for
particular applications.

16-bit applications cannot run on 64-bit Vista. This is true, and is exactly
the same situation with existed for 64-bit XP, and 64-bit Server 2003.
NTVDM.EXE uses V86 instructions which are not compatible with the CPU's
64-bit mode.

I do agree, that Virtual PC is a good workaround for any applications
(16-bit or otherwise) which experience compatibility problems on Vista.

What is your basis for saying the DOS 16-bit subsystem is not supported in
Vista?

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au

I tried to install Hallmark Card Studio 1.0 on Vista x86 Ultimate and it did
not if go beyond the install button. Please contact hallmark for support.
--
Andre
Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry
"Andrew McLaren" <> wrote in message
news:B0019C67-3DA5-4BC1-B745-...
> "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" <> wrote ...
>
>> Also the DOS 16 bit subsystem is not supported in Vista. Best you play
>> them in VM with Windows 95 installed. Just download the free Virtual PC
>> 2007 and install Windows 95 and your favorite DOS games.
>
> Hi Andre
>
> This is a common misapprehension - but with respect, it is wrong. This
> kind of misleading information should not be put out to the public.
>
> The 16-bit Subsystem, in the form of NTVDM (NT Virtual DOS Machine) and
> 16-bit WoW (Windows on Windows) are present by default in 32-bit Vista,
> and are fully supported by Microsoft. In general terms, 16-bit
> applications run fine on 32-bit Vista. There may be specific compatibility
> issues, for particular applications.
>
> 16-bit applications cannot run on 64-bit Vista. This is true, and is
> exactly the same situation with existed for 64-bit XP, and 64-bit Server
> 2003. NTVDM.EXE uses V86 instructions which are not compatible with the
> CPU's 64-bit mode.
>
> I do agree, that Virtual PC is a good workaround for any applications
> (16-bit or otherwise) which experience compatibility problems on Vista.
>
> What is your basis for saying the DOS 16-bit subsystem is not supported in
> Vista?
>
> --
> Andrew McLaren
> amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au
>

"Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" <> wrote...
>I tried to install Hallmark Card Studio 1.0 on Vista x86 Ultimate and it
>did not if go beyond the install button. Please contact hallmark for
>support.

Right, one specific application did not want to install. Some applications
(whether 16-bit or 32-bit) will have compatibility problems on Vista.

However, many many 16-bit DOS and Windows 3.x applications run on Vista with
no problems at all. The vast majority, in fact, of 16-bit apps can run okay
on Vista.

It is wrong to say the DOS 16 bit subsystem is not supported in Vista. It is
misleading advice.

--
Andrew McLaren
amclar (at) optusnet dot com dot au