Re: Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) - Any good?

Hi Mark

Going back aways, yes I saw the smoke from the laser cutting knif
and the fancy robotic stitching on the video. But somehow I don't thin
it's going to be necessary for Mars because we're never going to sen
anybody to Mars. (Trip's too long, radiation is a killer, can't build
shield thick enough, etc.) It's a figment of the imagination for NAS
and a pipe dream of Bush. Anyway that's my biased opinion on th
subject; love to discuss it with you sometime

Someway I fail to see the logic of your decision not to join the K
forum. Because you don't have to participate if you join it so it make
no difference about what you think of your cantankerous condition :-).
Last time I looked there were 2800 members and probably less than 20
active participants. As a matter of fact you're on a "moderated" foru
right now although you don't see much evidence of it, but it does pop u
from time to time.

As far as the KB forum I don't post very often but I do communicat
privately with some members. I've talked with Lunis several times. H
is a great gentleman and always responds to everything you ask. I'v
consulted with CR a couple times to get some advice on motherboards an
CPUs and he's been very helpful. I prefer to do it privately rathe
than post questions which sometimes start "round-robin" discussions
(I've noticed we've started hearing from a couple of microphone expert
on this forum. Perhaps they're responding to Andy's posts of a fe
months back.)

Anyway I've run through a bunch of microphones and every version o
DNS from 3.5 up in last 10 years I pretty well know what is needed.
Also in my former life I was a product design engineer for severa
products so I have some concept of technology. But it's enough of thi
discussion. We are getting way off the subject of Vista which is wha
this forum is about

However if we were in contact privately I'd be happy to give you som
input on the Samson Airline 77. I modified mine and tweaked it t
improve the performance and comfort. I could send you some pictures an
more information. And as far as I'm concerned there is no advantage i
waiting for the new "synch" model. In fact it may be like waiting fo
Godot because I don't think they're going to produce the Airline 7
headset model in that line. There is a technical reason why the
probably can't do it which I can explain to you. I also believe I coul
learn a lot from you about your experiences with various microphones an
voice recorders and DNS in general

You can also send me a private message via this forum if you join it
I joined it right away as soon as we started chatting; I'm listed i
the membership. If you want to keep your e-mail address private yo
could use a webmail address such as Hotmail or Yahoo Mail.

So my friend, I hope to hear from you in a private message but if
don't it's been a pleasure communicating with you for the past fe
months. I'm signing off from this forum

All the best

Gran

--
Grantx

This post is especially for Mark Conrad who promotes his DNS Medical here in
the Microsoft forums and imposes it on others to try and persuade them to
purchase the overpriced "DNS Speech Recognition Software". Nobody knows or
cares why he uses the "Medical Version" of DNS; he is not a doctor or
anything to do with the "Medical Profession" whatsoever!

I am here to prove that his DNS Medical is illiterate (it cannot spell
certain words properly nor differentiate the meaning of certain words) and
that WSR (Windows Speech Recognition) is as good as, if not better in some
respects than DNS (Dragon Naturally Speaking) - ESPECIALLY in the spelling
department. I have already proved him wrong once where he boasted and I use
his quote below: -

> Ah, no doubt you are referring to these examples of speech,
> punctuation, that were dictated by me, and changed into
> 100% accurate text, with no correction
> required, by DNS and MD

Above is a sneak preview of ONE of his posts in ONE of the threads he
started comparing DNS Medical with WSR and offering WSR users 3 tests to
complete which when I tried, WSR passed them all first time with flying
colours.

As I say above, this is just ONE of his posts in ONE of the threads he
starts. There are many others where he offers the same 3 tests in all of
them.

As you see above, he is boasting of 100% accurate text with no correction
required by his DNS and he clearly states he dictated the post which means
he DID NOT use his fingers to type yet I expose the word "consistently" in
his transcript spelt wrong not once but three times proving that his DNS
Medical cannot spell certain words correctly also noting that the DNS
Medical version cost him a mind boggling $1600 or roughly £ 800.00 whereas
my WSR came already installed within the Windows Vista OS when I bought my
new Dell laptop.

Bear this in mind as well; he also boasts he has been using DNS for a
whopping 10 years! In contrast I have been using WSR for just over 7 months
and living proof that if you train and teach WSR hard enough, you can save
yourself a lot of money and WSR does not make spelling mistakes.

I also do not have the luxury of typing with a digit due to my injury and
disability therefore I cannot cheat and no, I am not an employee of
Microsoft, just an average user who believes WSR is a serious alternative to
DNS weighing up the facts that I lay before you in this post.

To see the full thread he started just type in his thread title "Windows
Speech Recognition (WSR)-Any good?" In the "Microsoft General Discussion
Newsgroups".

Once there, expand the thread then if you click on his post dated 26/11/08
at 15.58 hrs you will see his errors in all their Glory (do not forget, I am
in the UK and he is in the USA so the times and dates I show may differ
slightly to the USA and other countries). After reading his post then click
on my post in the same thread dated 02/12/08 at 17.14 hrs where I expose
his spelling mistakes proving his 100% accurate text false.

I am here just to redress the balance as an avid WSR user and being a
quadriplegic, I use all the time now (as I am here) and to show that you do
not need to purchase the overly priced software known as DNS when most
people already have WSR on their OS and do not realise it. If you have
Windows Vista or XP check that it maybe there already under the name "Ease
of Access Centre".

With the advent of Windows 7 coming shortly, I have been informed by several
professionals (not just Microsoft representatives) that this OS looks very
promising and possibly the best to date. Within that OS will be the newest
look WSR.

If you are not planning to upgrade and wish to keep your Vista or XP OS and
still want to learn the art of Speech Recognition, do not worry for you will
not gain any obvious advantage by upgrading to Windows 7 OS in that
department.

I still use Windows Vista OS and I have self taught myself to use WSR very
effectively up to a point. Then, after a couple of months of using WSR with
my Dell laptop's integral microphone, I was seriously advised to invest in a
reasonably decent external microphone which I did. After that my speech
recognition accuracy shot right up as you can see from this post. Having a
decent external microphone is the single most important thing you will need
if you wish to persevere with speech recognition.

After that, I have found you can train and teach your WSR to recognize your
voice, add words to the WSR Dictionary and sufficiently build up your
vocabulary bank to a reasonable accuracy.

Then, the second most important piece of kit you will DEFINITLEY need is the
"WSR tool kit" which you can purchase very cheaply and as in my case, if you
are disabled, you can obtain it for free.

Once you have this piece of kit, you can make your own macros and the more
you make, the more accurate WSR becomes and then the sky's the limit. This
piece of kit is like the Bible for WSR and is a must have item if you wish
to pursue speech recognition seriously and professionally. Plus there is a
whole bunch of WSR professionals and forums out there to help you with any
problems from "initial setup" right through to "how to make your own
macros".

Most of the important professionals are mentioned later on in this post and
I have found them to be very accessible. By this I mean if I needed an
answer to a particular question, the three professionals in question I
mention later on in this post have all personally e-mailed me back the
answers to questions I posed for them making their customer relations second
to none.

Of course most of the answers to particular questions will almost with great
certainty have already be answered within certain forums such as these
amongst others and for the more advanced speech enthusiasts, there are the
Yahoo forums where macro making is in abundance and the users in these
forums are already experts.

Another thing that I must mention. WSR has an ingenious little tool within
its program which is known as "The Numbering System" and is patent pending
and ONLY EXCLUSIVE to the WSR program which DNS professionals and users are
rather envious of. You will quickly learn of this tool if and when you
start to use the WSR program. This is also a must have item especially if
you are disabled like me.

Below is another and completely separate post from the one above that I
mention from Mark Conrad where he also dictates with his DNS Medical and
tries to backtrack on his 100% claim.

Once again in this post also, I expose different flaws and spelling mistakes
within his very expensive setup proving you do not need to spend a fortune
to enjoy the workings of speech recognition be it for professionals,
amateurs or disabled people like myself who find it a way of life.

Read on with interest: -



I have been busy lately doing some research and making macros with the WSR
tool kit which is designed to make WSR (Windows Speech Recognition) even
more accurate.

I see you are still trying to promote your product DNS Medical within a
Microsoft forum and make comparisons between DNS Medical and WSR.

I did say that I would not pander to your childish notions but reading your
last post, I could not let you get away with the twaddle and untruths in
your somewhat delusional transcript.

I also noticed you are still posting the same old twaddle with your exact
same anecdotal clichés together with the same old example tests to try out
on everyone. Yawn! BORING!!!

> Now don't you feel a lot better

YES! Because you make me feel like that when you make it is so easy for me
to correct you.

> Who, me, I never get hot under the collar, I merely return in kind
> whatever was first dumped upon me.

Ditto

Hmm... Now let me see where I can start exposing your twaddle, there is so
much of it; I do not know where to start... Ok let's go!

> Dunno about you, but I pay attention to whatever my critics
> post in these forums, lots of times they are correct,

Perhaps you should pay attention a little better and read them properly then
you might get somewhere! I will give you a prime example later in this
post. In the meantime let us expose some more of your garbage!

> often I am wrong,

Correct.

> so criticize away

Thanks, I will, you make it very easy.

> Lemme tell ya, I have both of those pathetic apps, and they both are much
> CRAPPIER than even Macspeech is.
> You can't always go by what is posted, you have to try a lot of this stuff
> yourself.

I agree and I have.

I have toyed with DNS on a friend of mines PC and I am quite impressed but
as a disabled person and I feel I speak for a great deal of the community in
general that I would always revert back to WSR because of the numbering
system which is pure genius as a lot of new users are now finding out.

> I see you very carefully curb your criticism when you post in the
> KnowBrainer forum, very wise indeed.

Possibly the reason for this is because in the KnowBrainer forums I do not
come across arrogant ignorant people like you in there which is probably
why you have not joined.

I also go in there to learn and look at both sides of the story from EXPERTS
such as Lunis, Rob Chambers, Brad T and Marty Markoe who make a living out
of Speech Recognition and not from an egotistical, self righteous person
such as yourself who has delusions of grandeur in self importance and who in
reality is after all, just a mere amateur with a mere hobby and whose
opinions are unimportant when compared to the in-tell-i-gents I mention
above.

That is likened to the difference between asking a cab driver or a baby of
two for directions on how to get to a particular place! I know which one I
would listen to or ask for advice.

> Criticize in the KnowBrainer forum, and you get kicked out
> like Marty Markoe was, when he crossed swords with Lunis a while back.

Oh my God I am quaking in my boots!

Yes, I heard about this but I suspect Marty probably hit a very sensitive
nerve that was a home truth which Lunis did not like so Lunis banned him.
So what, I suspect it was no skin off Marty's nose and I doubt whether he
lost any sleep over it. The guys are both microphone experts. True
professionals cross swords with each other every day, just take a look at
yours and our politicians for example.

Since you name dropped Marty Markoe, let me tell you he alone probably knows
more in his little finger about microphones and SR than you and Grant put
together.

Let me turn the question the other way and ask why do you not join the
KnowBrainer forums and plaster your question about WSR being crappy in the
WSR forum? See what response you get then. I can tell you it would not be
pretty.

First of all it is run by Rob Chambers who is at the helm with supporters
such as the person you mention Marty Markoe who is, as I mention earlier, a
microphone expert and also Brad T (who has actually brought a book out on
the subject of SR and how to make macros which is selling like hot cakes as
I was informed recently) not to mention all the WSR users and supporters.

It would be like feeding time at the Sharks bay with you as the bait. (What
a horrible thought). So go on Mark, why do you not join and post that
remark about WSR being crappy you mention in the WSR section? Do you see
where I am coming from now? Works both ways does it not?

> Pop down here and cuss me out to relieve your frustrations, I will even
> insert some spelling errors for you.

"Frustrations", me, I am not the one frustrated. I believe a case of
pot/kettle springs to mind in this instance as I believe you are the
frustrated one probably because your DNS Medical is flawed and your
repetitiveness in these newsgroups due to memory loss show you are.

You mention that you will "insert some spelling errors" for me. By this I
assume you mean spelling mistakes that I have made. You show me a spelling
mistake I made in my last post to these forums, this one or indeed previous
ones. You see WSR spells words correctly.

If you find one, congratulations! I am quite comfortable with that because
I am not the one who has been as stupid as to boasting of 100% accuracy. If
you read my posts CAREFULLY and PAY ATTENTION, you will see I state my WSR
is VIRTUALLY 100% (virtually means nearly) which means you might find the
occasional spelling mistake which is a true statement, not like your false
claims.

This is what I meant earlier in this post. When you say you pay attention to
your posts carefully, you obviously do not pay attention and read them
carefully enough. Remember what you quote was as I show earlier in this
post? I will put it below again to jog your memory.

> Dunno about you, but I pay attention to whatever my critics
> post in these forums

I am one of your biggest critics and if you paid attention a bit more
you might get somewhere. Do your homework first before you jump in at the
deep end, make yourself look STUPID once again and showed yourself like the
true amateur you are.

> I do not use SR to create these posts, it takes longer than
> just typing them out, so occassionally I make spelling
> errors, so what, are you some kind of spelling cop.

Oops! (DNS Medical cannot spell "occasionally" properly either, look above)
making you look STUPID yet another time!

No, I am not a spelling cop but I do know how to spell the "Queen's English"
and so does WSR by the looks of it.

In all those 10 years you have spent teaching and training your DNS you have
forgotten to train and teach it that occasionally has only one "s". For the
money you spent on DNS Medical, I would have expected it to at least spell
correctly; they must have seen you coming when you bought it.

It is no good saying "occasionally I make spelling errors" I am afraid the
horse has already bolted so it is no good trying to backtrack and wriggle
out of this one now. Once again I show an extract from one of your earlier
post's quoted by you below: -

> Ah, no doubt you are referring to these examples of speech,
> punctuation, dictated by me, and changed into
> 100% accurate text, with no correction
> required, by DNS and MD.

Ah, look above again. Your own work boasting 100% accurate text dictation
with NO correction you posted this on the WWW for everybody to see!

At least WSR is consistent with its spelling (Oops, there is that word
again, another one that your DNS Medical cannot spell). Let's have a big
welcome back and shout out for the word "CONSISTENTLY" which in one of your
last posts you spelt wrong not once, not twice but THREE times proving it
was no fluke and your 100% claims definitely flawed!

You either typed that word in yourself which means you cheated and your
claims of 100% with no mistakes (which may I remind you were your very own
words not mine or anybody else's but your own) OR your very expensive DNS
Medical cannot spell properly equally making your claims of 100% false!

Either way, I have exposed you as the very foolish person you are for making
claims that you could not backup. You remind me of a fish being caught on a
hook and trying to wriggle off BUT YOU CANNOT! Caught, cooked and FRIED!

I have tried to explain this to you in small pigeon steps but you still seem
to be brushing aside the fact you were wrong! Still in denial are we?

Let me go slowly so you understand. 100% means 100% in other words WORD
PERFECT. Perfect means NO - NONE - NIL - ZERO mistakes, has it now got
through. I can tell you still have difficulty in realizing this so once
again, slower this time - your -claims -of -100% - were - WRONG! Does this
now compute?

> Yes it is true. Unlike you, I have no emotional attachment to any speech
> app.

No it is not true and it is no use jumping up and down like a two year old
because my Dads bigger than your Dad! I have proved this above.

> If WSR performed better than DNS, then I would drop DNS immediately

Who cares what you drop! Who the hell are you? Some self righteous
professor who thinks he is an expert? I do not think so. You are just some
washed up retired eccentric who THINKS he is and attributes his own self
importance and delusions of grandeur above others. You keep using your DNS
Medical if it keeps you happy,

Now let us get down to some proper business and set the record straight.

> A slogan is a short or memorial phrase used in Advertising

Firstly, by the above I believe you mean "memorable phrase" not "memorial
phrase". It is you that needs to use the "proper word".

A Memorial (noun) is a commemorative object or event. Something that is
intended to remind people of somebody who has died or an event in which
people died e.g. A statue, speech or ceremony. "War Memorials" for
example.

Memorial (noun) is also a statement of facts accompanying petition. To be
precise, a written statement of facts accompanying a petition presented to a
person or group in authority.

Memorial (adjective) commemorative; intended as a reminder of a person or
event or a celebration of someone's life and work. Check it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/memorial

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary.../memorial.html

And a "memorial phrase" (as you also state above) can also mean a
remembrance quotation, normally associated with, for or to the dead. Check
out below;

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encnet/ref...e&pg=1&grp=art

I doubt very much if a "memorial phrase" would be used in advertising. Or
perhaps it might. What would be your memorial phrase, "here lay DNS Medical,
dead in the water perhaps?

> Slogans? At least learn to use the proper word.

Indeed I have learnt this and I know perfectly well what slogan(s) means and
I have also learnt it depends in which context and interpretation one uses
it for the eventual meaning it was intended for.

Ah, I see now you are going down a very different path as in the diction and
grammar area. Probably a ploy to divert things from your 100% DNS Medical
spelling mistakes so pin back your ears and let me educate you.

Slogan IS the proper word within the context used and my interpretation on
the way you have used it. So it is perfectly logical and acceptable used
within that context and interpretation.

Let us analyse this further and I will go slow so your brain can take it in
because once again you have shown your ignorance.

Indeed one of the definitions of slogan is an advertising phrase, a short
catchy or memorable phrase used in advertising to promote something but let
us delve further into this;

Also if you check the thesaurus (UK) below, slogan can also mean "saying" in
this case YOURS, "crappy program" which is YOUR saying and I merely
interpreted this as the way you were using your words (in a slogan type way
or to sloganize "crappy program" to make your particular slogan) so it is
perfectly acceptable used in this context.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_/slogan.html

Again, look at the URL below and you will also see synonyms and RELATED
WORDS to slogan and one of the related words is "expression". This is YOUR
expression or the way YOU expressed "crappy program" as your Slogan.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/Slogan

Expression (YOURS) also means "utterance" - utterance -something uttered -an
oral or written statement, or a stated or published expression. (YOURS) as
in "crappy program"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/utterance[2]

These words are synonyms of Slogan. A synonym: - a word that means the same
or almost the same as another word in the same language even in all of its
uses or in a specific context.

Check out what the full definition of a synonym means below;

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/synonyms.html

To sloganize (transitive verb) make something into a slogan, to express
something in a slogan or make a slogan of something. In this case "crappy
program", YOUR SLOGAN!

Pointing out that YOU have sloganized "crappy program" or made those words
into YOUR slogan is perfectly acceptable because it is my interpretation of
the way YOU have used the words "crappy program" as in a slogan type way
meaning the way YOU have used them.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary...sloganize.html

Also, if you look at the word Slogan in Wikipedia it states: - a memorable
motto or phrase used in a political, commercial, religious and OTHER CONTEXT
as a repetitive expression of an idea or purpose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan

Another definitive way of using slogan is as a "quotation" not necessarily
an advertising quotation, could be a famous quotation, "crappy program"
being YOUR quotation, check it out below.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encnet/ref...n&pg=1&grp=art

Do you understand now? Having the cheek to tell me to use the proper word.
Do your homework first before pretending to be clever.

As I say, this is about spelling mistakes and your claims of 100% which were
trashed very easily and as we are merely posting in these forums and not
writing a book, diction and grammar become secondary and are of no real
great importance within these circumstances.

I will explain- this- to- you- in-pigeon- steps-again - and- give- you-
some- examples- so- that- you - understand- and- perhaps- learn- a-
little.

Here, as we all know, we are using abbreviations, slang words and new words
relevant to the Web much like you also do with a mobile phone. Texting as we
all know is a sort of language all on its own, made up with abbreviations
such as shortened words like BTW which as we all know is short for by the
way or LOL which most of us know as a shortened version of Laugh Out Loud.
There are many more.

As I say, do not get me started on diction or grammar. If you want to go
down that path, I have read quite a few of your posts in here which I have
noted and could tear to shreds if I wanted to regarding that subject.

Throwing punctuation into the mix as well, it does not always show itself on
the Web as it does in a word program such as Microsoft Office 2007 because
of the limited functions that the Web based forum posts provide.

Sometimes punctuation used correctly in a word document may come out as
different characters when cut and pasted onto the Web. On the other hand,
spelling mistakes are there for all to see in a word document AND on the
Web. There is no hiding place for them.

> I doubt very much that SMS would consider "crappy" as a 'slogan suitable
> to advertise Windows Speech
> > Recognition.

By SMS I presume you mean Microsoft. An SMS is a messaging service for a
mobile telephone and actually stands for "Short Message Service". You are
so clumsy around letters and words.

You think it is crappy, I beg to differ. As mentioned before, you are a
mere amateur so I and probably thousands of others do not care what you
think. Why would we? You are no expert. If you were, then I doubt very
much that you would be calling WSR "crappy".

Your opinion is minuscule compared to REAL professionals and probably to the
foreign doctors you harass as well. Leave them alone, they are real
professionals so I think they would recruit real professionals in speech
recognition if they really required them. They do not need a sad old
volunteer trying to teach them something as complicated as "Speech
Recognition". Leave it to the professionals.

> Oh wait! - Now I get your drift, crappy indeed _does_ advertise the fact
> that WSR is indeed of extremely poor > quality, unpleasant, worthless,
> in other words, the definition of the slang word crappy, according to my
> > dictionary.

> Wow, talk about intuition, I really hit the nail on the head by using the
> proper slang word 'crappy to describe
> WSR.

There you go praising yourself again, the only one who is.
(The old delusions of grandeur creeping in again)
What intuition? The only intuition you have is your big
crystal ball by the sounds of it. I believe you really hit
the nail on your head. You will be telling us next that
you are a tarot card reader and that you can see into
the future.

If you really think WSR is "crappy" then stop posting questions about DNS in
a Microsoft forum. I have already read one post from someone asking you if
you are in the right forum for posting questions about DNS Medical. When He
also thought you were a bit strange.

If you really think WSR is worthless, then indeed you do need to read up on
what words mean because it is far from that especially with the numbering
system that is patent pending and exclusive ONLY to WSR. Even Lunis
mentions he wished he had that facility in DNS, biased or not.

The numbering system is so ingenious and clever, far from the things you say
above which really shows your ignorance. In fact it is so ingenious, I may
mention it again in this post somewhere because it deserves to be mentioned
again.

Join the KnowBrainer forums if you wish to learn anything about DNS Medical
instead of imposing your garbage on others who are not interested. Having
said that, seeing as you know it all, why post anything? Go and join a
lonely hearts column or something.

> I tried all that again, no luck, so realizing how flakey WSR is, I
> experimented a little.

Just looked up flaky in the Encarta Dictionary: English UK and one of the
definitions are: -

An offensive term: read on further it says: - North American offensive term
describing
somebody regarded as eccentric or irrational (informal insult)

In that case, flaky is indeed the perfect description for you!

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Flaky%2520.html

> I dictated the audio recognition of the word deliberately slower than the
> pace I usually say it when speaking.
> That seemed to be the magic bullet, I trained it as:

> super.. .cal. . .i. . .frag...i. ..list. . .ic.. .ex.. .pial .. .i.. .do..
> .cious Then spoke it a normal faster pace during actual >
> dictation. Phooey, I did not have all this trouble training the same word
> in DNS.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, so
easy.

Funny, I did it first time with no problems whatsoever and without the bad
stutter you have above. I would stick with your DNS Medical if I were you,
it may come in handy for your condition.

Perhaps WSR is a little too sophisticated for someone of your disposition or
perhaps you need some tyro training as you are only a novice.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, there we go, I actually sang that to the
screen this time.

> I tried again to get WSR to recognize the "word" used in the 1964 Walt
> Disney movie "Mary Poppins":
> supercalifragilisticexpialidocious which as used in the movie means
> "wonderful"also the name of a song in
> that movie.

I feel a sense of Déjà vu coming on which means: - A state of boring
familiarity or repetitiveness.

This describes you perfectly! I fear the old dementia is worse than we
first thought as I have been there, done that and got the T shirt - MOVE ON!

> GOOD GRIEF! - just got WSR to consistently recognize that female
> astronaut's
> name, hyphen and all:
> Heidemarie Stefanyshyn- Piper

Well done you! I see you spelt consistently right this time as well. What
took you so long? It has only taken you 10 years to sort out this bug
or so you proclaim!

> Yes, I like to keep my eyes on the crappy speech apps, Macspeech being the
> worst, WSR being in the lower-
> middle, and DNS being the one that the
> overwhelming majority of serious speech professionals use.

You like to keep your eyes on "the crappy speech apps" as you put it in WSR
more like because you are intrigued on how good WSR really is for a free
Speech Recognition program. Asking questions about WSR in a Microsoft forum
proves this.

You would not play football on an ice hockey rink for want of an analogy
so if your DNS Medical is so great, stick with it and post your questions in
a DNS forum such as KnowBrainer. From there you might learn
something from the questions you pose.

I must point out one other thing about your use of the word crappy. I doubt
very much if you even know where that term originated.

Well let me tell you and bear with me because there is a point being made
here;

The word "crap" comes from the plumber Thomas Crapper who was born in 1836
in Victorian Britain and who (allegedly) invented the siphon flush toilet.

http://www.exnet.com/1995/11/01/science/science.html

You may mock that WSR is "crap", "fit for the toilet" or any of those jokes
associated with the "myth or legend" that is Thomas Crapper but seriously,
look on the flip side of the coin, the invention of the "Siphon Flush"
toilet was probably one of the more ingenious inventions of the 19th century
so yes, you could associate that word to mean "an ingenious invention"
ESPECIALLY the numbering invention which is patent pending and exclusive
ONLY to WSR! :-))

> WSR being in the lower-
> middle, and DNS being the one overwhelming majority of serious speech
> professionals use of

Reading your quote above;

Firstly, nobody cares where YOU put them in order of performance, that is
your own biased opinion and of no consequence to anyone because you are an
amateur. That is likened to asking a dustman how he would wire up a house.
No one would take a dustman's advice in this instance; they would seek an
electrician because he-is-the-expert


Secondly, it depends what you mean by a "serious speech professional". This
is not to be confused with a serious professional such as a Doctor or
Dentist which your scenarios personify and most professional practitioners
would have a receptionist to do most of their typing anyway.

If you are suggesting people such as these are the overwhelming majority
then once again as I stated in my last post these people are only a fraction
of the world's population.

A lot of what I would call "serious speech professionals" as you put it is
the disabled community because they have no option but to use speech
recognition.

Thirdly, when you compare the existence of DNS to WSR then it is feasible to
assume more people are using it but more and more, not only serious speech
professionals but big organizations and institutions are beginning to cotton
on to the fact that DNS has a serious rival in WSR especially as it being
part of a whole OS and it is no longer an "overwhelming majority" as you so
foolishly state, more like a case of WSR nipping at the ankles of DNS
especially with the advent of windows 7 coming out shortly. I and thousands
of others think WSR is a remarkable achievement especially that it comes
free within a whole OS. Not a lot of people even knew it was there as
first!

Another advantage with WSR that knocks the pants off DNS is their customer
support. I have actually asked Rob Chambers, Marty Markoe and Brad T
directly for certain advice in an e-mail on a wide range of aspects
concerning WSR ranging from how to perform certain commands to macro making
and had a reply e-mailed back to me within 48 hours. Brad T himself has
written a book on how to create macros. Even Lunis in the KnowBrainer
forums gives out some good advice albeit in a moderated forum and biased
towards DNS.

I am also in touch directly with some very knowledgeable MVPs here in the
UK. One of them is actually testing out the new Windows 7 OS and informs me
that it looks promising.

Only just recently I had a reply from Brad T himself answering some
questions I asked regarding WSR.

He mentioned other stuff as well that was of real use to me such as you can
download the Windows 7 OS Beta free for a limited time trial right as we
speak. Not that I need to because Brad informs me that the SpeechMacros
download is of course a free upgrade to my already in existence WSRToolkit.
The upgrade each time could be compared to DNS 9.5 Preferred to DNS 10
Preferred except with WSR, the upgrade is free.

I have also been informed by Brad that WSR also accommodates different
languages within their specific language OS. So if a customer was German for
example he/she would be able to purchase a PC with "Vista German" on it
gaining WSR in that language PLUS a whole O/S as well.

THESE are the true professionals I and many others listen to, not the
gibberish that comes from a wannabe like you.

Let us put this into perspective some more;

You boast you have been teaching and training your DNS Medical for 10 years.
I bought my Dell laptop in July last year. At first, I never even knew
there was a speech recognition program within the new Vista and it was only
by chance reading some posts from a forum that I found it. Before that I
was looking at DNS and people like yourself telling me how great it is but
seeing as I have a speech recognition program already on my OS I thought I
would give it a go.

Bear this in mind because it becomes very relevant later on in this post.
I was very surprised when I tried it for the first time. The training took
me 1 hour, 1½ hours tops. Then I was able to use it, train it more so it
got used to my voice pulling out the "Open Speech Dictionary" if I needed to
and gradually building up my vocabulary.

Bear this in mind also. For the first two months of using it I had no
external microphone and was using my laptops integral MIC. I got by with it
but background interference and noises did affect it I must admit but when I
bought a new external microphone, wow! What a world of difference. My
speech dictation took off and became much faster with less mistakes (that
includes SPELLING MISTAKES), my navigation was superb and now I am making my
own macros with the help of the experts making my WSR even more accurate.

Now let us examine this rationally;

When July comes this year, it will be one year since I started to learn and
train WSR and already it can do exactly the same as your DNS 9, 9.5, 10 and
even your DNS Medical which cannot spell! 10 years behind you state that
WSR is compared to DNS. You must be living on another planet.

So In seven months give or take, I have learned to use WSR very efficiently
as you can see from my posts and being disabled I have not got the luxury of
using a digit to type in any spelling mistakes to cheat.

In 10 years ANYTHING could happen and anyhow there is not a 10 year gap
between them and I can prove this making your next claim below a load of
nonsense!

> I put WSR about where Dragon was ten years ago, should be interesting to
> see if $MS can close that 10 year
> gap or not. All 3 speech
> apps, WSR, DNS, and MacSpeech Dictate 1.2 have their own unique good
> points.
> (and bad points)

Firstly I must mention once again, it does not matter nor do I care where
you put WSR compared to DNS because your opinion is your opinion and worth
bird droppings.

Once again I must point out you are no expert just a little volunteer who
thinks he is and STILL trying to peddle his DNS Medical. You are an amateur
so your opinion means nothing not to mention inaccurate and I will prove it.

Now I am going to let you into a little secret that blows the pants off your
claims of DNS being 10 years in front!

I had my accident in May 2004. By the time I came out of intensive care and
the acute ward, I then had the gruelling task of confronting
rehabilitation.

In Stanmore hospital, which is a very specialized hospital for spinal
injuries and is situated in the heart of North London, they have a dedicated
wing called "Aspire". One of the activities for rehabilitation within that
wing is computer training.

Bear this in mind, this was 2004. One of their training programmes at the
time was to train speech recognition to patients such as myself and what
speech recognition software were they using? Yes you guessed it, Dragon
Naturally Speaking. I am not quite sure on this and I stand corrected but I
believe WSR was not even in existence then.

I must just let you know this fact. Before my accident, I had my own
plumbing and heating company employing 4 plumbing and heating
engineers for 20 years. I sat many courses on business studies
amongst other things for five years.

Anyway, getting back to my point, at that time, before I could even start to
use DNS I had to read about two essays within its training and these were
not short essays and even after that, DNS recommended that I do this more
than once so the program became more accurate. So in essence at the time, I
spent about two weeks of sessions just reading these essays and that was
even before attempting to use it, to coin the phrase "naturally".

Anyway, the day of reckoning came when I attempted to use the DNS speech
recognition to dictate a quotation for me. I started off saying;

"Dear Sirs, I have pleasure in enclosing my quotation for the plumbing and
heating to your property as follows".

The words on the screen came out like;

"Deserves, - at your leisure - in his toasting - by close Asian - foreign
bananas as eating - door hobby says swallows".

I remember this vividly because my wife and daughter were visiting me at
that time and my daughter was laughing uncontrollably at what came out on
the screen. Even the guy who was training me had to laugh even though he
was mildly embarrassed at the garbage that presented itself on the screen.

DNS at that time was useless and no amount of training would make the
program do its job properly.

As I mention earlier in this post to "bear this in mind" this piece of
information now becomes prominent for two reasons and they are;

Firstly, I started using WSR last July (as I mention earlier in this post, 7
months ago). I spent roughly 1 hour training it in its first initial stage.

After that I was dictating straight away and it was working amazingly well
and this is without an external microphone at first. Compare that to the
DNS software of 2004 which, after my genuine experience with it in my
opinion was a joke and not worth the packaging it came in. You can then see
that WSR has already caught up to DNS as a serious rival today.

Secondly, when I did add a reasonably good external microphone and started
to teach and train WSR to recognize my voice and build up my vocabulary etc.
The accuracy shot up and as we know, WSR just like DNS becomes more accurate
the more times you use it, train it, select words you want to the dictionary
and most importantly, making macros to customize the way you want your
speech recognition to come out on screen.

Where is the 10 year gap in that? There isn't, so wipe your mouth, there is
still a tiny bit of bull dung around your lips.

WSR can perform anything that DNS can, I am living proof of this and I
would also call myself a serious speech recognition person because this is
the only way I can converse and interact with other people using the written
word.

So in effect, you have had 10 years to teach and train your DNS with very
expensive microphones so you boast.

In contrast I have been using WSR for seven months and built up quite
a large and varied vocabulary in that short space of time. When you
put it in that context, the divide between the two are minuscule.

Also after 10 years of teaching and training with your DNS Medical, you
should at
least point out to Nuance their bug regarding the spelling mistakes on
certain words that DNS Medical obviously cannot perform.

By my reckoning, from 2004 when I started to use the totally useless DNS
speech recognition software at that time until 2008 when I started to use
WSR is 4 years last time I calculated and as I have already mentioned above
WSR can already do exactly the same tasks as DNS can do and in some cases
better.

> WSR just does not have the muscle, will take at _least_ ten years for it
> to equal Dragon, perhaps never will.

WSR does have the muscle so long as you train it and teach it your
vocabulary and add macros just the same as DNS. The difference is, you have
had 10 years to do all these things with DNS and it is still giving you
spelling mistakes. If I had been using WSR for 10 years building the
vocabulary and adding macros for that amount of time, then I really believe
there would be no contest but at the moment I have been using it for only 7
months.

As I have said before regarding your statement above, I would not bet your
house on it.

Where you get this 10 year gap in difference of performance between the two
I do not know because it simply is not true. BTW, how are you coping living
on another planet, with that female astronaut and Mary Poppins.

Do not let your mind wander; it is too small to be let out on its own!

Ok let us try to visualise 10 years ahead as you mention. Phew! ANYTHING
could happen that is a long time!

The Second World War lasted roughly half that time and involved the whole
world and look at the changes at the end of that!

Just 2 - 3 months ago or there about FW Woolworth were still trading, now
they are gone from the face of the earth and they had been around for nearly
100 years!

So to predict what will be in 10 years time is a very naive and
foolish statement to make.

In 10 years it will be 2019. They will probably be back on the Moon by then.
They may even be in the throe of starting to build a permanent base there as
well, who knows.

In 10 years Nuance could be out of business, Microsoft could be taken over,
the third world war could start and we could all be nuked!

They may even have the stem cells that Christopher Reeve petitioned for
to be used on people like myself to get the use of our arms and legs
once again, heck! You or I may not even be here then so we will not
have to worry anyway.

Stop gazing into that crystal ball of yours and put your tarot cards
away and get into the real world!

> Affordability is not the prime reason they are interested.

Perhaps not, but it certainly makes one think before splashing out on a
ridiculously overpriced piece of software such as DNS Medical. The fact
that Dragon Naturally Speaking has already dropped its prices in some areas
of the www proves that stiffer competition is in abundance. Do not take my
word for it, take a look for yourself.

If you are still paying about $1600 for DNS Medical then you really do need
your brains testing or perhaps you have money to burn because quite frankly
it is not worth that amount. For $1600 you could buy two reasonably decent
PC's complete with a whole OS with WSR included in the package.

They must have seen you coming especially nowadays because of the worst
downturn in yours and our country's economy on record.

I could understand it if DNS was vastly superior to WSR but the simple truth
of today is there is very little difference between the two and my guess is
within the next three years the cost will become more prominent to the
average guy and DNS will be forced to drop its prices or, and I say this
again, will go out of business. That is how the market economy works and
stiff competition is then taken very seriously.

> Tell me why you use the medical version...

> I fail to see what relevance this has to personal
> computing, but you asked, so I will answer.

You are right, it has no relevance!

If you had put all my quotation above in its entirety and in the proper
context it should have read as follows: -

"Tell me why do you use the medical version, is it so you can self
medicate"?

I was not asking you the question "why do you use it"? I am not the
slightest bit interested in why you use it. Your opinion means zilch to me
and all your examples and scenarios are meaningless because (as I have
mentioned before) you are just a mere amateur with a mere hobby and who has
verbal diarrhoea when posting these examples and scenarios and thinks he is
being clever dictating his self righteous claptrap.

If you read my phrase properly you will see it was a rhetorical question and
I was being sarcastic because I answered my own question you poor misguided
soul. It was a figure of speech! Why don't you look up the term "rhetorical
question", then you may learn something.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encycloped...of_Speech.html

Once again you have shown your ignorance and need for self importance with
delusions of grandeur at thinking I genuinely asked you that question.

Good grief! , get over yourself!

> So why am I doing it?

Who care's!!!

> ergo, if I have intelligence, I will find out when my
> priceless utterings get changed into priceless text

More importantly, you would have more intelligence if you and your DNS
Medical could distinguish the difference between how a particular word has
its spelling with the way it is laid out on screen. You would then both
know the proper way of presenting and spelling the word "utterings" in your
transcript above which is not even in the dictionary! Check it out below.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Utterings.html

Now if you had used uttering, utterance, utter or mutterings, then I believe
you would have been alright.

I would report that bug to DNS Medical if I were you.

> BTW, don't poo-poo the language capabilities of DNS, because 38% of US
> doctors are foreign born.

BTW "poo-poo" (noun) as you have used it above means excrement! (Which is
what your full of) OR to defecate (verb) OR to expel faeces from the bowel
through the rectum (intransitive verb).

Good God! Of all the words to spell wrong, DNS Medical picked that one. If
I were you, I would ask for a full refund of $1600 for your DNS Medical
because it cannot tell the difference between "poo-poo" and "pooh-pooh".

Your DNS Medical is illiterate and full of poo-poo. Check it out below

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Poo%252dpoo.html

Now if you had spelt it the RIGHT WAY which WSR DOES, it should have read
"pooh-pooh", (transitive verb) THEN I believe you would have got the right
definition. (Show scorn for something: to dismiss or express disdain for
something) Check it out below.

http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary...%252dpooh.html

BTW I have not "Pooh-Poohed" the language capabilities of DNS, You show me
anywhere in my posts where I have said that?
I actually agree that this is where DNS and Nuance may have a slight edge.
I merely stated that WSR is catching them up AS WE SPEAK and it can at least
spell properly.

> We better not subject ourselves to the Speech Recognition
> 'test to see we have intelligence or not.

Spoken like a true amateur. If that is the case, where did you go wrong?

> After all, ignorance is bliss, and we ought to know, because
> otherwise we would be rich and famous right now.

Speak for yourself. You do not necessarily have to be intelligent to be rich
and famous, at the
same time you do not necessarily have to be rich and famous to be
intelligent and I would agree, ignorance IS bliss but in your case,
ignorance is abundant.

"Mark Conrad" <none-> wrote in message
news:110220091244027713%none-...
> In article <#>, andy t
> <> wrote: ...long winded blowhard post.
>
>
> ...( l-o-n-g lunatic raving clipped)...


long but accurate.


> Blah, blah, blah, Whatta Dork!

Pot/kettle springs to mind here, just look at his example tests then you
will see "blah blah blah delusions of grandeur blah blah blah!

> Main parts of your post are several
> out-and-out lies.
>

Let the good men and women out there decide that and who is Dork.

> Lie #1
> ******
>
>> ...and he clearly states he dictated
>> the post which means he DID NOT use his
>> fingers to type yet I expose the word
>> "consistently" in his transcript spelt wrong...
>
>
>
> My post, going by _your_ reference of how to
> find my post of November 26, 2008, has *NO*
> statement by me *ANYWHERE* in it
> that I "dictated the post".
>
> BTW, subject title of my post there was:
>
> Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) - Any good?
>
> Anyone can read the entire post there to
> verify that I never posted any statement
> that I "dictated" that post of November 26, 2008.
>
>
> Lie #2
> ******
>
>> ...proving that his DNS Medical cannot
>> spell certain words correctly...
>
> You are not "proving" anything, you are
> just spreading FUD.

Calm down you old sod and watch your blood pressure otherwise you might blow
a gasket.

So you were wrong! No one will think any less of you because of it (well
perhaps me) and it is not the first time
You have been wrong, just go and get practice in a DNS forum. You show
promise and enthusiasm for a novice but I suggest you stick with DNS
Medical, find a DNS forum so that you can learn the things you wish to and
leave WSR to the big boys.


> Lie #3
> ******
>
>> As you see above, he is boasting of 100% accurate
>> text with no correction required by his DNS...
>
> Who is boasting, I am merely stating the obvious.
>
> Those 3 examples I dictated into the Dragon
> speech app look 100% accurate to me, perhaps
> you can elaborate about your lie that they are
> _not_ 100% accurate.
>
> Here again are the raw uncorrected examples,
> not even one word is spelled incorrectly as per
> your lie, not even
> the non-word "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".
>
> ...a non-word made famous in the year 1964 Walt Disney
> movie named "Mary Poppins".
>
>
> Example #1
> - - - - -
> We speculate that spontaneous destabilization involving
> spatiotemporal nonperiodicity (symmetry breaking) occurs
> in a macroscopically stochastic manner because collectively
> interacting actomyosins generate chaotic dynamics capable of
> amplifying intrinsic microscopic fluctuations to destabilize
> macroscopic conditions.
> - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> Example #2
> - - - - -
> pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
> - - - - -
>
>
> Example #3
> - - - - -
> supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
> - - - - -
>
> None of those 3 examples had any correction applied,
> I just copied and pasted them into my post.
>

May I just point out he has been dictating the same old tripe above in
several of his posts within several of the threads of this particular forum.
He is like a broken record!

> Now let me see, where were we, oh yeah, posting about
> your lies. Those 3 lies are just the tip of
> the iceberg, your entire post is full of lies.
>
> You know what, it just might just be sheer ignorance,
> instead of deliberate lying.

Yes, sheer ignorance on your part.

I ask you, how can I be lying when "your quotations" are there in black and
white for everyone to see?

> In any event, I am tiring of this nonsense, I am
> out of here.
>
> Mark-


You see what I mean above, "hit a nerve". The truth hurts and as you can
guess I have mildly embarrassed him because he cannot backup his claim. My
SLOGAN here would be "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

I say good riddance to bad rubbish!