I REALLY hope MS reads this NG

In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there
anybody at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of
this latest OS? Come on!!!

BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since
1989 or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not,
having followed this NG and reading article after article from
established, LONG time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments,
it was EASY to say, "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!

About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
2. people with nothing better to do with their time
3. people who like to just spend money
5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
(the one uppers)
6. hobbyists
7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others
out of trouble

M$ really has a racket going!

"Vic" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there anybody
> at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of this
> latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since 1989
> or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not, having
> followed this NG and reading article after article from established, LONG
> time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments, it was EASY to say,
> "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
>
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
> (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others out
> of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!


I am from #1...had to take new PC with Vista. And to date absolutely no
problems.!

Vic wrote:

|In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, EVER seen soooo many
|complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there
|anybody at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability
|of this latest OS? Come on!!!
|
|BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since
|1989 or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or
|not, having followed this NG and reading article after article from
|established, LONG time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples
|comments, it was EASY to say, "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
|
|About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
|1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
|coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it) 2. people
|with nothing better to do with their time 3. people who like to just
|spend money 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest
|and 'greatest' (the one uppers) 6. hobbyists
|7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others
|out of trouble
|
|M$ really has a racket going!

I really do not understand all the bitching about Vista. I've gotten
one new laptop with Vista pre-installed and upgraded two desktop
computers and an older laptop. As long as the hardware is up to it
there's been the normal upgrade problems, but nothing really bad. I had
to add another gig of ram to the older laptop. Without that it was
hopeless running Vista. All in all I guess I've been lucky and are now
running Vista happily in addition to Ubuntu Linux which I like a lot
also. Please do not start a discussion about Ubuntu vs Windows. I'm so
tired of it and do not prefer one over the other. Both have strengths
and weaknesses. There's no universal truth out there when it comes to
operating systems as far as I'm concerned.

The one thing that bothered me is the stupid new security features
which seems to rely on the theory that if you make things hard to do
it's more secure. I've disabled UAC on all my computers which is
trivial to do.

--
//ceed

Hi, Vic.

You've had two positive-about-Vista replies already. Here's a third. But
you probably will ignore all of us because we don't fit your pre-conceived
mindset. :>(

My first computer was the original TRS-80 in 1977, 30 years ago next month.
My first MS-DOS computer was in the early 1980's (a Tandy 2000). I bought
the T2K to get ready for the soon-to-debut Windows, and have used just about
every version of Windows since 1.0. I first saw "Longhorn" at Microsoft in
2003, and participated in the Vista beta from August 2005 until its release.
I dual-booted WinXP and several builds of the Vista beta for over a year. I
installed Vista RTM as soon as I could, just over a year ago. Then I bought
new hardware (motherboard, CPU, etc.) last December and installed Vista
Ultimate x64 from scratch for a fresh restart. I've been using VUx64 ever
since.

Vista is the best Windows yet.

Yes, there is a heavy equipment cost, but Windows 1.0 wouldn't run on my
TRS-80, either. And there is a learning curve, just as there was for Level
I BASIC, then Level II BASIC, then TRS-DOS...and for Windows XP six years
ago - and as there will be for Windows 7 or whatever comes next. I will be
frustrated then because the Next Big Thing won't work the way the
by-now-familiar Vista does. But I will learn and progress.

Even now, on the rare occasions when I must use WinXP, I'm frustrated
because it doesn't work like Vista. In a few weeks, you will be, too.

Each and every new version of Windows has been met with the same wave of
negativity that we've seen for Vista. Most of the negative rants have come
from people who, like you, have heard bad things and spread the gossip
before they have actually tried the new version for themselves. Or within
the first few days, when the frustration level is at its peak. You won't
see nearly as many complaints from users who have actually run Vista for a
month or two. Long enough to get over the first hump in the learning curve.

I don't know which of your categories I fit into, maybe a little of each.
If I had waited for the perfect system, I would still be waiting and I would
have missed out on a lot in the past 30 years.

Chuck the mindset, Vic. Jump in. Get your feet wet. The water's fine.
Give Vista an honest chance, and you'll see. ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

"Vic" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there anybody
> at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of this
> latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since 1989
> or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not, having
> followed this NG and reading article after article from established, LONG
> time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments, it was EASY to say,
> "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
>
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
> (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others out
> of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!

"I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many complaints from soooo many
people about problem software."
Then take a look at the newsgroups from 6 years ago when Windows XP
was new.
The complaints are about the same.
Factor in the number of computer users then vs. now.
There are more computers now so an increase of the numbers is
expected.
Higher numbers does not necessarily = more problems, just more people
voicing their ideas.
Everything is more with more computers and users today.

If you have been following newsgroups for anywhere near as long as you
have been using windows You already know there is no expectation or
requirement Microsoft employees read these peer to peer newsgroups.

Your list is flawed since "buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it" is
not necessary, at least not because of anything Microsoft does.
If they are not satisfied with their new purchase, they should do the
same as with any other purchase of any unsatisfactory product, return
or exchange for a refund/suitable product.
Dell, Toshiba and possibly other major OEMs as well as nearly
countless local shops continue to sell computers with Windows XP.
If someone feels they had no options, they limited their own search.
This is not a change with Windows Vista.
6 years ago at the release of Windows XP, Windows 9x/2000 continued to
be available for at least several months.

Windows Vista continues to work well for me on two older computers and
many other people report similarly.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Vic" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there
> anybody at MS doing a reality check on the
> effectiveness/desirability of this latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since
> 1989 or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or
> not, having followed this NG and reading article after article from
> established, LONG time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples
> comments, it was EASY to say, "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
>
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and
> 'greatest' (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the
> others out of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!

Vic;526703 Wrote:
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there
> anybody at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of
> this latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since
> 1989 or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not,
> having followed this NG and reading article after article from
> established, LONG time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments,
> it was EASY to say, "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!

That is perhaps an unfortunate side effect of a NG such as this one.
The majority of postings are from people who are experiencing problems.
People hardly have a reason to post to a NG if they don't have any
problems, now do they?

But as for the "long time tech. writer and reviewers", may I point you
in the direction of 'Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows Welcome'
(http://www.winsupersite.com/default.asp)? If you want some long
standing, honest opionions of Vista that goes far back as the first
BETAs, then that is the right place to go. I'm sure if you put you back
into it, you could find other such sites that do not simply condemn
Vista because its Vista!

And you really should be careful about trusting the judgements of
"laymen". By their very definition, they do not have enough tech. savvy
to be able to make an informed critique of Vista, so why would it appear
that far too many people are taking their word as gospel?

Vic;526703 Wrote:
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
> (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others
> out of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!

1. If people don't want to be "stuck" with Vista that has been
pre-installed onto a new PC, then they should have told the seller,
right from the start, that they wanted a PC with Windows XP on it. You
can't hardly say Vista is a bad thing because some people don't know how
to ask a simple question.

2. Actually, you're right. Since I;ve moved to Vista, I don't have much
else to do with my time, but that's only because Vista has improved my
productivity so much, I can get my work done in double time, and I find
myself with way too much extra time on my hands. This part, my fiance
loves, because now I have more time to go shopping with her .

3. I hate spending money on anything that is of no intrinsc value. I
spent a good deal of money on my existing hardware almost a year before
Vista was released, and then some more for Vista when it was. I can
honestly say that neither was a waste of money.

4. -You don't have a point 4. Odd..

5. What's having the latest and greatest got to do with anything?

6. No one ever really uses a computer for only work anymore. Most
people nowadays are hobbyists anyway.

7. Whats wrong with a techie wanting to learn a new OS inside and out
so that he can help those who do have problems? Thats called common
sense the last time I checked...


--
dzomlija

____________________________________
Peter Alexander Dzomlija
Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? -And as
you die, so shall I be Reborn-...

- ASUS A8N32-SLI-Deluxe
- AMD Atlon 64 Dual-Core 4800+
- 4GB DDR400
- ASUS nVidia 6600
- Thermaltake Tai-Chi Watercooled Chassis
- 1207GB Total Formatted Storage
- Vista Ultimate x64
- CodeGear Delphi 2007'http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/' (http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/)

I don't think I fit anywhere on your list. I wanted to see what Vista was
like, tried it, and decided to stay with it because I much prefer it to XP.
I use it for my day job (technical authoring, with photography and
illustrations) and my hobbies (software development). I don't do any gaming
or other heavy duty 3D stuff, so I can't comment on that.

I've had no serious problems whatsoever with my installation since Jan 31st
(when it was released in the UK). It was fragile to start with, and as the
online updates have come out it has gone from strength to strength.
Absolutely no blue screens or other catastrophic failures.

The people who complain about Vista in this forum are a vanishingly small
proportion of the overall population of Vista users. That is surely true
even if you include all the professional bloggers and reviewers. I'm not
saying they are wrong to complain, simply that you can't possibly draw any
conclusion one way or the other about Vista by reading the newsgroups.

Actually, I have drawn a conclusion of my own. Vista is just fine IF you
ensure that ALL your hardware and ALL your software is properly compatible
with it.

That is based on my own experiences, and I still stick by it.

SteveT

"Vic" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there anybody
> at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of this
> latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since 1989
> or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not, having
> followed this NG and reading article after article from established, LONG
> time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments, it was EASY to say,
> "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
>
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
> (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others out
> of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!
>

You missed out another group of user of Windows Vista and that would be the
tens of thousands of business users in various companies I work with have
seen the benefits and deployed Windows Vista to all staff.
And so far none of my customers have had any serious issues with Windows
Vista.
But as JJ said you will probably disregard this too as it does not fit with
your preconceived opinion.
--
Mike Brannigan

Vic

Vista is not the same animal as it was back at the time of it's public
release. MS has worked hard to deliver improvements via Windows Update, and
it is much better than it was.

Third party manufacturers have gotten their act together, but there are
those who simply will not support older stuff. This is nothing new and has
been seen before.

Much of the anti-Vista material splashed in here is no longer relevant,
completely out of date. Some of the naysayers don't even run Vista, but
choose to be part of the anti-Vista community because they don't like MS
anyway.

Locals who have bought Vista pre-loaded like it, and if I was to tell them
some of what I see here, they would think that I was making it up, just as
some will and have said that I make things up.

Give Vista a chance, and do not base your thoughts on the pre-conceptions of
others, especially those who type 'Vista sucks' but who will not back up
their statement with anything other than outdated material.

--
Mike Hall - MVP
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx




"Vic" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In the 20+ years of PC'ing, I have NEVER, *EVER* seen soooo many
> complaints from soooo many people about problem software. Is there anybody
> at MS doing a reality check on the effectiveness/desirability of this
> latest OS? Come on!!!
>
> BTW, JFTR, I am NOT a Linux loony and have been a Windows user since 1989
> or so. Having wondered if I should make the move to Vista or not, having
> followed this NG and reading article after article from established, LONG
> time tech. writers, reviewers, lay peoples comments, it was EASY to say,
> "YOU GOTTA BE NUTS" to move to Vista!
>
> About the only ones I see going that way (to Vista) are:
> 1. people buying new PC's and are 'stuck' with it (then desperately
> coming to this group asking how to fix it or get rid of it)
> 2. people with nothing better to do with their time
> 3. people who like to just spend money
> 5. people who feel superior because they have the latest and 'greatest'
> (the one uppers)
> 6. hobbyists
> 7. techies who really do need to learn this OS to help all the others out
> of trouble
>
> M$ really has a racket going!
>

Steve Thackery;526774 Wrote:
> I don't think I fit anywhere on your list. I wanted to see what Vista
> was like, tried it, and decided to stay with it because I much prefer it
> to XP. I use it for my day job (technical authoring, with photography
> and illustrations) and my hobbies (software development). I don't do any
> gaming or other heavy duty 3D stuff, so I can't comment on that.
>
> I've had no serious problems whatsoever with my installation since Jan
> 31st (when it was released in the UK). It was fragile to start with, and
> as the online updates have come out it has gone from strength to
> strength. Absolutely no blue screens or other catastrophic failures.
>
> The people who complain about Vista in this forum are a vanishingly
> small
> proportion of the overall population of Vista users. That is surely
> true even if you include all the professional bloggers and reviewers.
> I'm not saying they are wrong to complain, simply that you can't
> possibly draw any conclusion one way or the other about Vista by reading
> the newsgroups.
>
> Actually, I have drawn a conclusion of my own. Vista is just fine IF
> you ensure that ALL your hardware and ALL your software is properly
> compatible with it.
>
> That is based on my own experiences, and I still stick by it.
>
> SteveT

And I will second that!

Steve, your experience very nearly mirrors my own, with the exception
that I only got Vista at the end of February due to stock shortages
here.

You can tell by my system specs in my sig. that I'm not a gamer (other
than the odd demon-bashing session in Diablo II). I mostly use my
computer for video editing and photo restoration work.

What language do you use for your software development? I've been using
Delphi since version 1 way back when in the days of Windows 3.1. I
current use Codegear Delphi 2007...


--
dzomlija

____________________________________
Peter Alexander Dzomlija
Do you hear, huh? The Alpha and The Omega? Death and Rebirth? -And as
you die, so shall I be Reborn-...

- ASUS A8N32-SLI-Deluxe
- AMD Atlon 64 Dual-Core 4800+
- 4GB DDR400
- ASUS nVidia 6600
- Thermaltake Tai-Chi Watercooled Chassis
- 1207GB Total Formatted Storage
- Vista Ultimate x64
- CodeGear Delphi 2007'http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/' (http://dzomlija.spaces.live.com/)