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OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this
 )1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts of information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can improve it in the next developmental cycle of Windows. 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't picked randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who have experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so they'll know! 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers and employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for long enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking )4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen, what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application that crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version. It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't need any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have taken 5 years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong to be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had the Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as well. Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version of Windows in the meantime. -- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! --- Original message follows --- "Eric" <> wrote in message news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-... > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are not > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE > GONNA > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY? > > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from Microsoft > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER feedback > and FEATURE COMPLETE. > > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can be > made... > > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion" > > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be... >> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature >> complete" now... >> >> -- >> Zack Whittaker >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum >> » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and >> not >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! >> >> >> --- Original message follows --- >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <> wrote in message >> news:... >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote: >> > >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with >> >> a >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we >> >> have >> >> this back, please? >> > >> > Seconded, I miss that one too! >> > -- >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood) >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices >> > >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site >> > http://www.4WinMobile.com >> >> >> |
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First, thanks for your reply.
however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms... The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new features or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them. I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do get MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend every year... and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a decade... and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its extraordinary length of dev time "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this )> > 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts of > information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but > they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can improve > it in the next developmental cycle of Windows. > 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't picked > randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who have > experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what > people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so > they'll know! > 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers and > employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for long > enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking )> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen, > what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application that > crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version. > > It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't need > any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have taken 5 > years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong to > be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had the > Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing > worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows > Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as well. > Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame > it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version of > Windows in the meantime. > > -- > Zack Whittaker > Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) > » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk > » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net > » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum > » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk > » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no > rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not > of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! > > > --- Original message follows --- > "Eric" <> wrote in message > news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-... > > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are not > > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make > > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE > > GONNA > > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY? > > > > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from Microsoft > > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER feedback > > and FEATURE COMPLETE. > > > > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can be > > made... > > > > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion" > > > > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > > > >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be... > >> > >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are "feature > >> complete" now... > >> > >> -- > >> Zack Whittaker > >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) > >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk > >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net > >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum > >> » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase > >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no > >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and > >> not > >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! > >> > >> > >> --- Original message follows --- > >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <> wrote in message > >> news:... > >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote: > >> > > >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous Windows > >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people with > >> >> a > >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could we > >> >> have > >> >> this back, please? > >> > > >> > Seconded, I miss that one too! > >> > -- > >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood) > >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices > >> > > >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site > >> > http://www.4WinMobile.com > >> > >> > >> > > > |
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> The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new
> features > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them. I know - it just helps improve what is there and how people use it - they know how people use software from the CEIP reports, so they know how to make things easier to access and use. > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do > get > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend > every year... Sometimes random, but it really helps if you have a lot of experience behind you. If you know a product, they'll usually ask you to participate in further ones of that product. For example, I was on Messenger 7.0, then 7.5 and now WLM 8.0. They are carefully selected most of the time, with bug reports feedback and all that. > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a > decade... > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its > extraordinary length of dev time And they are! You must remember there are many different perceptions - from novice users, experts, developers, web developers, security analysts, technology evangalists - so overall it's much better for everyone. They've had a lot of work to do in Vista and it's not as if they've been slacking you know, there was a point where they nearly re-wrote the entire codebase from scratch - it's not easy building something that advanced! -- Zack Whittaker Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! --- Original message follows --- "Eric" <> wrote in message news:527A4869-9A73-497B-A133-... > First, thanks for your reply. > > however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms... > > The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new > features > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them. > > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do > get > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend > every year... > > > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a > decade... > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its > extraordinary length of dev time > > > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > >> OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this )>> >> 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts >> of >> information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but >> they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can >> improve >> it in the next developmental cycle of Windows. >> 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't >> picked >> randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who >> have >> experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what >> people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so >> they'll know! >> 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers >> and >> employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for >> long >> enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking )>> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen, >> what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application >> that >> crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version. >> >> It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't >> need >> any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have >> taken 5 >> years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong >> to >> be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had >> the >> Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing >> worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows >> Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as >> well. >> Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame >> it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version >> of >> Windows in the meantime. >> >> -- >> Zack Whittaker >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum >> » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and >> not >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! >> >> >> --- Original message follows --- >> "Eric" <> wrote in message >> news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-... >> > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are >> > not >> > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make >> > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE >> > GONNA >> > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY? >> > >> > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from >> > Microsoft >> > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER >> > feedback >> > and FEATURE COMPLETE. >> > >> > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can >> > be >> > made... >> > >> > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion" >> > >> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: >> > >> >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be... >> >> >> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are >> >> "feature >> >> complete" now... >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Zack Whittaker >> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) >> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk >> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net >> >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum >> >> » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase >> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no >> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, >> >> and >> >> not >> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that >> >> one! >> >> >> >> >> >> --- Original message follows --- >> >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <> wrote in message >> >> news:... >> >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous >> >> >> Windows >> >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people >> >> >> with >> >> >> a >> >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could >> >> >> we >> >> >> have >> >> >> this back, please? >> >> > >> >> > Seconded, I miss that one too! >> >> > -- >> >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood) >> >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices >> >> > >> >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site >> >> > http://www.4WinMobile.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |
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Thanks.
Although I'd like to ask how do they determine the seniority of a user, like yourself? "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > > The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new > > features > > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them. > > I know - it just helps improve what is there and how people use it - they > know how people use software from the CEIP reports, so they know how to make > things easier to access and use. > > > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do > > get > > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend > > every year... > > Sometimes random, but it really helps if you have a lot of experience behind > you. If you know a product, they'll usually ask you to participate in > further ones of that product. For example, I was on Messenger 7.0, then 7.5 > and now WLM 8.0. They are carefully selected most of the time, with bug > reports feedback and all that. > > > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a > > decade... > > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've > > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its > > extraordinary length of dev time > > And they are! You must remember there are many different perceptions - from > novice users, experts, developers, web developers, security analysts, > technology evangalists - so overall it's much better for everyone. They've > had a lot of work to do in Vista and it's not as if they've been slacking > you know, there was a point where they nearly re-wrote the entire codebase > from scratch - it's not easy building something that advanced! > > -- > Zack Whittaker > Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) > » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk > » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net > » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum > » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk > » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no > rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not > of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! > > > --- Original message follows --- > "Eric" <> wrote in message > news:527A4869-9A73-497B-A133-... > > First, thanks for your reply. > > > > however i'm still not happy with the mechanisms... > > > > The customer expereince program only tracks usage patterns, not new > > features > > or new concepts, although usage patterns may imply some of them. > > > > I don't know how they pick beta users, but I'm sure MSDN subscribers do > > get > > MS attention just because they've got 7 grand of cold hard cash to spend > > every year... > > > > > > and yes... it's been too long for vista to come for aafter half a > > decade... > > and that's EXACTLY why we demand more from this OS than any other we've > > seen... the standards should be higher than anything else for its > > extraordinary length of dev time > > > > > > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > > > >> OK, taken into account what you've said... now check this )> >> > >> 1) The Customer Feedback programs provide the teams with *huge* amounts > >> of > >> information in how users use Windows. Nothing personal is collected, but > >> they need to know what's being used, how and when so that they can > >> improve > >> it in the next developmental cycle of Windows. > >> 2) During the beta program, a lot of testers help out. These aren't > >> picked > >> randomly, they are selected from a long list of subscribed people who > >> have > >> experience and know what they're on about. Those people will know what > >> people need, and of course the people at Microsoft are human as well, so > >> they'll know! > >> 3) Newsgroups - there are thosands of MSFT newsgroups and the developers > >> and > >> employees *do* check them - they may not reply, but if you're here for > >> long > >> enough, you do realise there's a presence of them lurking )> >> 4) Crash reports - they are all individually looked at, how they happen, > >> what needs doing to fix them and common errors within the application > >> that > >> crashes. These are then compiled and fixed in the next version. > >> > >> It's already taken them over half a decade to get this far, they don't > >> need > >> any more pressure on them! Everyone keeps saying "oh, Microsoft have > >> taken 5 > >> years plus to release another version of Windows"... well they're wrong > >> to > >> be honest. They've had loads of things go on, not just OS's. They've had > >> the > >> Windows XP Starter Editions which have helped a great deal in developing > >> worlds, as well as Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2003 R2, Windows > >> Small Business Server, and they're working on Windows Starter 2007 as > >> well. > >> Microsoft have come a very long way in the last 5 years, and it's a shame > >> it's been overshadowed by the fact they haven't released a client version > >> of > >> Windows in the meantime. > >> > >> -- > >> Zack Whittaker > >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) > >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk > >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net > >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum > >> » VistaBase: www.vistabase.co.uk > >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no > >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and > >> not > >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that one! > >> > >> > >> --- Original message follows --- > >> "Eric" <> wrote in message > >> news:765E0389-564A-4D33-9180-... > >> > lol and u call them "customer focused" when such important stuff are > >> > not > >> > thought through and giving soooo litttttle time for people to make > >> > suggestions... HA FEATURE COMPLETE BEFORE PUBLIC BETA? HOE ARE PEOPLE > >> > GONNA > >> > MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS? OFFICIAL MICRO$OFT BETA TESTERS ONLY? > >> > > >> > geez I'm sick of this "too early" "too late" lame excuses from > >> > Microsoft > >> > Corporation. i swear there is NO TIME GAP between PUBLIC CUSTOMER > >> > feedback > >> > and FEATURE COMPLETE. > >> > > >> > The feature complete designation is done BEFORE ANY public feedback can > >> > be > >> > made... > >> > > >> > This is called... Microsoft "Your Potential, Our Passion" > >> > > >> > "Zack Whittaker (R2 Mentor)" wrote: > >> > > >> >> Suggestion made... but unlikely to be changed... well... could be... > >> >> > >> >> Might be a tad late in the development cycle, seeing as they are > >> >> "feature > >> >> complete" now... > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Zack Whittaker > >> >> Microsoft Beta (Windows Server R2 Beta Mentor) > >> >> » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk > >> >> » MSBlog on ResDev: http://msblog.resdev.net > >> >> » ZackNET Forum: www.zacknet.co.uk/forum > >> >> » VistaBase: www.zacknet.co.uk/vistabase > >> >> » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no > >> >> rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, > >> >> and > >> >> not > >> >> of my employer, best friend, mother or cat. Let's be clear on that > >> >> one! > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- Original message follows --- > >> >> "Tekguru (Daron Brewood)" <> wrote in message > >> >> news:... > >> >> > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:10:31 +0100, Pierre Szwarc wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> I like the "network" notification icon, but... in the previous > >> >> >> Windows > >> >> >> versions, it animated when there was network activity. For people > >> >> >> with > >> >> >> a > >> >> >> slow or shaky connection, this can be a precious indication. Could > >> >> >> we > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> this back, please? > >> >> > > >> >> > Seconded, I miss that one too! > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Tekguru (Daron Brewood) > >> >> > MS-MVP/Mobile Devices > >> >> > > >> >> > Webmaster: UKs largest Pocket PC Site > >> >> > http://www.4WinMobile.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > |
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