Run as Admin option causes data "loss"

Hi, I have a strange issue and it seems to happen on any version of Vista. We
use a financial application that stores financial data for clients in a
database file (mdb). When we run the application in Vista as-is (i.e. without
enabling "Run as Administrator"), we see [and can retrieve] any saved case
data. However, if we enable the "Run as Administrator" option and launch the
app we no longer see that saved data in the application. If we disable the
"Run as Administrator" option again we can once again see that saved data in
the app. Any new cases saved with the app open with "Run as Administrator"
enabled do not seem to disappear like the ones saved with that option
enabled, regardless of whether the option is enabled or not. Does this
particular option perform something like a "rollback" when enabled, causing
sort of an undo action to happen to the application, or could this be some
kind of security issue that "blocks" or "hides" the data? Any assistance
would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Regards,

Randy

Are you running with UAC turned off? Where things are stored in what look
like system protected areas (e.g. c:\Program Files) is dependent on UAC
status and running as administrator.
I suggest that you report your UAC status and the location of the file in
question so someone with your configuration can possibly help.

Michael

"Randy" <> wrote in message
news1754605-ACED-4923-8AA3-...
> Hi, I have a strange issue and it seems to happen on any version of Vista.
> We
> use a financial application that stores financial data for clients in a
> database file (mdb). When we run the application in Vista as-is (i.e.
> without
> enabling "Run as Administrator"), we see [and can retrieve] any saved case
> data. However, if we enable the "Run as Administrator" option and launch
> the
> app we no longer see that saved data in the application. If we disable the
> "Run as Administrator" option again we can once again see that saved data
> in
> the app. Any new cases saved with the app open with "Run as Administrator"
> enabled do not seem to disappear like the ones saved with that option
> enabled, regardless of whether the option is enabled or not. Does this
> particular option perform something like a "rollback" when enabled,
> causing
> sort of an undo action to happen to the application, or could this be some
> kind of security issue that "blocks" or "hides" the data? Any assistance
> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randy

Thanks for your reply Michael. Good point about UAC. In fact if I disable UAC
and then enable the "Run as Administrator" option I am able to see the saved
data in the app. And yes, the data file in question is located in a subfolder
under the C:\Program Files folder. So the key appears to be UAC itself, and
whether it is turned on or off, which seems to affect the app. Apart from
moving the data file outside the Program Files folder (to users' My Documents
folder, for instance), is there another way we can keep this from happening
(of course we want to keep UAC turned on - we do not encourage our users to
turn off that security feature). Thanks again for your reply.

"Michael Walraven" wrote:

> Are you running with UAC turned off? Where things are stored in what look
> like system protected areas (e.g. c:\Program Files) is dependent on UAC
> status and running as administrator.
> I suggest that you report your UAC status and the location of the file in
> question so someone with your configuration can possibly help.
>
> Michael
>
> "Randy" <> wrote in message
> news1754605-ACED-4923-8AA3-...
> > Hi, I have a strange issue and it seems to happen on any version of Vista.
> > We
> > use a financial application that stores financial data for clients in a
> > database file (mdb). When we run the application in Vista as-is (i.e.
> > without
> > enabling "Run as Administrator"), we see [and can retrieve] any saved case
> > data. However, if we enable the "Run as Administrator" option and launch
> > the
> > app we no longer see that saved data in the application. If we disable the
> > "Run as Administrator" option again we can once again see that saved data
> > in
> > the app. Any new cases saved with the app open with "Run as Administrator"
> > enabled do not seem to disappear like the ones saved with that option
> > enabled, regardless of whether the option is enabled or not. Does this
> > particular option perform something like a "rollback" when enabled,
> > causing
> > sort of an undo action to happen to the application, or could this be some
> > kind of security issue that "blocks" or "hides" the data? Any assistance
> > would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Randy
>
>

Randy,
Here is an example of a improperly written program that stores its current
user configuration data in 'Program Files'
I am an administrator, but the explorer is not 'running as administrator'
and I have not elevated my privileges, UAC is on.
View system and hidden files are ON.

In C:\Program Files\Blue Squirrel\ClickBook\ there are are two files
unins000.dat and unins000.exe there is no sign of expected current
configuration files. A big clue is in the banner above, which has
Organize, Views, SlideShow, Burn and !!! Compatibility Files !!!

If you click on Compatibility files you see the current per user files !! in
this case clikapp.ini and ix.ini (and desktop.ini)
Checking the properties, these files are actually at :
c:\Users\Walraven\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Progr am Files\Blue
Squirrel\ClickBook

The application that created those files should be able to see and update
them just fine, as long as UAC remains on and it is running without Elevated
Permissions.

If run with elevated permissions or with UAC off then the data will be saved
and used where you would have expect it to be (I.e. not in the virtual store
area)

So bottom line is you must run in a consistent manner with respect to UAC
and 'Run as administrator' to get consistent results.

As to what you should do. For what my 2 cents is worth. Do not save or
modify anything in c:\Program Files after the installation is complete.

If the data in the .mdb file is related to a single user on the computer
then I would save it in c:\Users\<users name>\Documents\<program name>.
If the data in the .mdb is global, I.e. for all users on the machine then I
would save it at c:\<program name>\ and make sure that it was shared as
necessary to each user.

BTW: I hope your use of the phrase 'My Documents' was a slip, in Vista this
area does not exist, it is just 'Documents'. If you meant 'My Documents' and
are using XP instead of the Vista I assumed disregard all/most?? of what I
have said.

Michael

"Randy" <> wrote in message
news:14862087-44F3-448A-AF94-...
> Thanks for your reply Michael. Good point about UAC. In fact if I disable
> UAC
> and then enable the "Run as Administrator" option I am able to see the
> saved
> data in the app. And yes, the data file in question is located in a
> subfolder
> under the C:\Program Files folder. So the key appears to be UAC itself,
> and
> whether it is turned on or off, which seems to affect the app. Apart from
> moving the data file outside the Program Files folder (to users' My
> Documents
> folder, for instance), is there another way we can keep this from
> happening
> (of course we want to keep UAC turned on - we do not encourage our users
> to
> turn off that security feature). Thanks again for your reply.
>
> "Michael Walraven" wrote:
>
>> Are you running with UAC turned off? Where things are stored in what look
>> like system protected areas (e.g. c:\Program Files) is dependent on UAC
>> status and running as administrator.
>> I suggest that you report your UAC status and the location of the file in
>> question so someone with your configuration can possibly help.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> "Randy" <> wrote in message
>> news1754605-ACED-4923-8AA3-...
>> > Hi, I have a strange issue and it seems to happen on any version of
>> > Vista.
>> > We
>> > use a financial application that stores financial data for clients in a
>> > database file (mdb). When we run the application in Vista as-is (i.e.
>> > without
>> > enabling "Run as Administrator"), we see [and can retrieve] any saved
>> > case
>> > data. However, if we enable the "Run as Administrator" option and
>> > launch
>> > the
>> > app we no longer see that saved data in the application. If we disable
>> > the
>> > "Run as Administrator" option again we can once again see that saved
>> > data
>> > in
>> > the app. Any new cases saved with the app open with "Run as
>> > Administrator"
>> > enabled do not seem to disappear like the ones saved with that option
>> > enabled, regardless of whether the option is enabled or not. Does this
>> > particular option perform something like a "rollback" when enabled,
>> > causing
>> > sort of an undo action to happen to the application, or could this be
>> > some
>> > kind of security issue that "blocks" or "hides" the data? Any
>> > assistance
>> > would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Randy
>>
>>

Thanks again for your helpful reply. To confirm, yes, I meant "Documents" not
"My Documents" - a slip on my part. We know it is better practice to store
data files outside of Program Files, this particular data file happens to be
the last one that will get moved (and action will be taken to do that). In
the meantime, I am filing your reply for future reference. Again, many thanks
for your quick and helpful replies, muchly appreciated. Cheers.

"Michael Walraven" wrote:

> Randy,
> Here is an example of a improperly written program that stores its current
> user configuration data in 'Program Files'
> I am an administrator, but the explorer is not 'running as administrator'
> and I have not elevated my privileges, UAC is on.
> View system and hidden files are ON.
>
> In C:\Program Files\Blue Squirrel\ClickBook\ there are are two files
> unins000.dat and unins000.exe there is no sign of expected current
> configuration files. A big clue is in the banner above, which has
> Organize, Views, SlideShow, Burn and !!! Compatibility Files !!!
>
> If you click on Compatibility files you see the current per user files !! in
> this case clikapp.ini and ix.ini (and desktop.ini)
> Checking the properties, these files are actually at :
> c:\Users\Walraven\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Progr am Files\Blue
> Squirrel\ClickBook
>
> The application that created those files should be able to see and update
> them just fine, as long as UAC remains on and it is running without Elevated
> Permissions.
>
> If run with elevated permissions or with UAC off then the data will be saved
> and used where you would have expect it to be (I.e. not in the virtual store
> area)
>
> So bottom line is you must run in a consistent manner with respect to UAC
> and 'Run as administrator' to get consistent results.
>
> As to what you should do. For what my 2 cents is worth. Do not save or
> modify anything in c:\Program Files after the installation is complete.
>
> If the data in the .mdb file is related to a single user on the computer
> then I would save it in c:\Users\<users name>\Documents\<program name>.
> If the data in the .mdb is global, I.e. for all users on the machine then I
> would save it at c:\<program name>\ and make sure that it was shared as
> necessary to each user.
>
> BTW: I hope your use of the phrase 'My Documents' was a slip, in Vista this
> area does not exist, it is just 'Documents'. If you meant 'My Documents' and
> are using XP instead of the Vista I assumed disregard all/most?? of what I
> have said.
>
> Michael
>
> "Randy" <> wrote in message
> news:14862087-44F3-448A-AF94-...
> > Thanks for your reply Michael. Good point about UAC. In fact if I disable
> > UAC
> > and then enable the "Run as Administrator" option I am able to see the
> > saved
> > data in the app. And yes, the data file in question is located in a
> > subfolder
> > under the C:\Program Files folder. So the key appears to be UAC itself,
> > and
> > whether it is turned on or off, which seems to affect the app. Apart from
> > moving the data file outside the Program Files folder (to users' My
> > Documents
> > folder, for instance), is there another way we can keep this from
> > happening
> > (of course we want to keep UAC turned on - we do not encourage our users
> > to
> > turn off that security feature). Thanks again for your reply.
> >
> > "Michael Walraven" wrote:
> >
> >> Are you running with UAC turned off? Where things are stored in what look
> >> like system protected areas (e.g. c:\Program Files) is dependent on UAC
> >> status and running as administrator.
> >> I suggest that you report your UAC status and the location of the file in
> >> question so someone with your configuration can possibly help.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> "Randy" <> wrote in message
> >> news1754605-ACED-4923-8AA3-...
> >> > Hi, I have a strange issue and it seems to happen on any version of
> >> > Vista.
> >> > We
> >> > use a financial application that stores financial data for clients in a
> >> > database file (mdb). When we run the application in Vista as-is (i.e.
> >> > without
> >> > enabling "Run as Administrator"), we see [and can retrieve] any saved
> >> > case
> >> > data. However, if we enable the "Run as Administrator" option and
> >> > launch
> >> > the
> >> > app we no longer see that saved data in the application. If we disable
> >> > the
> >> > "Run as Administrator" option again we can once again see that saved
> >> > data
> >> > in
> >> > the app. Any new cases saved with the app open with "Run as
> >> > Administrator"
> >> > enabled do not seem to disappear like the ones saved with that option
> >> > enabled, regardless of whether the option is enabled or not. Does this
> >> > particular option perform something like a "rollback" when enabled,
> >> > causing
> >> > sort of an undo action to happen to the application, or could this be
> >> > some
> >> > kind of security issue that "blocks" or "hides" the data? Any
> >> > assistance
> >> > would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Randy
> >>
> >>
>