SBS 2008 and class B (supernetted) network

"Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <> wrote in
message news:...
>
> As you can see from my signature block, I've been in these NG's since 1997
> as
> a SBS MVP. MVPs are volunteers with real jobs and so we may not be here
> every day or reply to every post, but there are many others who are
> knowledgeable regarding SBS who frequently contribute, but for whatever
> reason have not been "officially" recognized yet. All that being said, I
> can't imagine you getting a post from someone suggesting that it's ok to
> abandon the Wizards and it would go with out being rebutted by sever of
> the
> above aforementioned folks.
>
>
> --
> Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP] (since 1997)
> Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
> http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-...7269967&sr=8-1
> Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
> A Microsoft Registered Partner
> ------------------------------------
> MVPs do not work for Microsoft
> Please do not submit questions directly to me.

I agree. :-)

Ace

Hi Cris and Ace,

Well, I wish I had the thread to hand, but this was over a year ago. If you
can search these forums that far back, under my NG login you can find it. I
am not lying to you. I believe the original thread was about me wanting to
have management tools installed on my desktop to manage the server remotely,
like I do now (still not on SBS, evidently). Of course, disclaimers aside,
I shouldn't and usually don't take what is said on any forum as gospel, but
in this case I did. My bad.

Anyway, believe me, don't believe me, call me a liar if you will, it's all
academic. Its not a good idea to work outside of the wizards and you are
limited in how you use SBS in so much as you have to configure your network
like a "wizard", which in this context might sometimes prove to be ironic.
Whatever, I'll deal with it, and if it turns out to be totally impractical
to work with for my business's needs then I will have to chalk it up to the
fact that I went on some duff advice. The advice definitely was that you
can do everything you normally can do, but you have a limitation on the
number of users you run, you can't install management tools on your desktop,
etc., but otherwise the wizards are there for those who need a helping hand
but the full blown management tools are still provided for those who know
what they are doing and want to get in under the bonnet and tinker around.

On a side note though. Perhaps it was rebutted later, but it wasn't the
shortest thread in the world so, in line with what you say, you would have
thought (and hoped) someone would have chimed in at some point. If they did
it was after I had considered the case closed, and therefore did not revisit
the thread. I am going on a bit here, but I am a bit upset that you SEEM to
be flagrantly calling me a liar (or at least very much implying so) in an
open forum. Is that really what you are doing?

These MS newsgroups are a useful resource to me, as they are to a lot of
people. So I am not looking to fall out with anyone, but I am telling you
that IF you are calling me a liar that I am offended by that.

Ace, I have not heard back from HQ as yet - they aren't exactly nimble up
there like us smaller branch office bods are.

Regards,

Jarryd

"Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:#...
> "Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]" <> wrote in
> message news:...
>>
>> As you can see from my signature block, I've been in these NG's since
>> 1997 as
>> a SBS MVP. MVPs are volunteers with real jobs and so we may not be here
>> every day or reply to every post, but there are many others who are
>> knowledgeable regarding SBS who frequently contribute, but for whatever
>> reason have not been "officially" recognized yet. All that being said, I
>> can't imagine you getting a post from someone suggesting that it's ok to
>> abandon the Wizards and it would go with out being rebutted by sever of
>> the
>> above aforementioned folks.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP] (since 1997)
>> Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
>> http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-...7269967&sr=8-1
>> Owner, CPU Services, Belleville, IL
>> A Microsoft Registered Partner
>> ------------------------------------
>> MVPs do not work for Microsoft
>> Please do not submit questions directly to me.
>
> I agree. :-)
>
> Ace
>
>
>

"Jarryd" <> wrote in message
news:624CB2DE-87A9-4269-B4AC-...
> Hi Cris and Ace,
>
> Well, I wish I had the thread to hand, but this was over a year ago. If
> you can search these forums that far back, under my NG login you can find
> it. I am not lying to you. I believe the original thread was about me
> wanting to have management tools installed on my desktop to manage the
> server remotely, like I do now (still not on SBS, evidently). Of course,
> disclaimers aside, I shouldn't and usually don't take what is said on any
> forum as gospel, but in this case I did. My bad.
>
> Anyway, believe me, don't believe me, call me a liar if you will, it's all
> academic. Its not a good idea to work outside of the wizards and you are
> limited in how you use SBS in so much as you have to configure your
> network like a "wizard", which in this context might sometimes prove to be
> ironic. Whatever, I'll deal with it, and if it turns out to be totally
> impractical to work with for my business's needs then I will have to chalk
> it up to the fact that I went on some duff advice. The advice definitely
> was that you can do everything you normally can do, but you have a
> limitation on the number of users you run, you can't install management
> tools on your desktop, etc., but otherwise the wizards are there for those
> who need a helping hand but the full blown management tools are still
> provided for those who know what they are doing and want to get in under
> the bonnet and tinker around.
>
> On a side note though. Perhaps it was rebutted later, but it wasn't the
> shortest thread in the world so, in line with what you say, you would have
> thought (and hoped) someone would have chimed in at some point. If they
> did it was after I had considered the case closed, and therefore did not
> revisit the thread. I am going on a bit here, but I am a bit upset that
> you SEEM to be flagrantly calling me a liar (or at least very much
> implying so) in an open forum. Is that really what you are doing?
>
> These MS newsgroups are a useful resource to me, as they are to a lot of
> people. So I am not looking to fall out with anyone, but I am telling you
> that IF you are calling me a liar that I am offended by that.
>
> Ace, I have not heard back from HQ as yet - they aren't exactly nimble up
> there like us smaller branch office bods are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jarryd
>

I'm sorry, I wasn't calling anyone a liar or making any attempt to
discredit you or anyone else. I agreed about MVPs and others that provide
knowledgeable assistance, and someone with that stature more than likely
would not have suggested to not use the wizards. Yes, almost everything can
be done without the wizards, but it's just not suggested nor recommended, at
least so SBS is 'aware' of the changes (and not using the term 'aware' in
that it's a sanctioned being, of course!).

As far as what you have going, if they don't give you what you need, I would
probably go ahead and set it up according to the wizard with a /24, then
change it afterwards. If you are restricted in these means, sometimes you
have to do what you have to do to comply and get things running.

Ace

Hi Ace,

I appreciate your reply. Perhaps I overreacted and apologise if I got
anyone's back up.

I did try using a /24 mask so that the wizard would pick up the router,
which it then did, when I first ran into this problem. The only thing that
happened from there was that it started to dawn on me that I can't really be
playing the "maverick" to the SBS "wizard". I guess I don't really have a
problem with this, I just need to learn what other shackles are in place
here and that learning curve will happen the hard way. I did read up on SQL
limitations (need premium CALs, not just SQL CALs) and that you are able to
run on Hyper-V (which i am) and all sorts, but I guess you just can't cover
everything. And I sort of assumed that SBS really was a normal (full blow)
Windows environment with the only limitation being that you can't have more
than 75 users (and you have to be the root of the forest, etc.) This IP
thing, for example, was an unfortunate oversight, although saying it like
that sounds like I am conceding that it's an obvious one to look out for and
I don't think it is and I don't believe that the change was signposted in
pink neon, if you know what I mean. There might be more things like this
that will trip me up. Any nuggets that people often overlook that you can
think of?

Anyway, like you say, sometimes you have to chuck and change to keep the
ball rolling. In the meantime, still waiting for HQ to get back to me on
this. If they give me grief I might just say "actually, I insist our
network is protected from your IP-VPN circuit using a firewall that we can
control rather than installing inside our LAN." Politically, I think that
has SOME clout.

Regards,

Jarryd

>>
>
> I'm sorry, I wasn't calling anyone a liar or making any attempt to
> discredit you or anyone else. I agreed about MVPs and others that provide
> knowledgeable assistance, and someone with that stature more than likely
> would not have suggested to not use the wizards. Yes, almost everything
> can be done without the wizards, but it's just not suggested nor
> recommended, at least so SBS is 'aware' of the changes (and not using the
> term 'aware' in that it's a sanctioned being, of course!).
>
> As far as what you have going, if they don't give you what you need, I
> would probably go ahead and set it up according to the wizard with a /24,
> then change it afterwards. If you are restricted in these means, sometimes
> you have to do what you have to do to comply and get things running.
>
> Ace
>
>
>

"Jarryd" <> wrote in message
news:FF44E078-6940-4285-9434-...
> Hi Ace,
>
> I appreciate your reply. Perhaps I overreacted and apologise if I got
> anyone's back up.
>
> I did try using a /24 mask so that the wizard would pick up the router,
> which it then did, when I first ran into this problem. The only thing
> that happened from there was that it started to dawn on me that I can't
> really be playing the "maverick" to the SBS "wizard". I guess I don't
> really have a problem with this, I just need to learn what other shackles
> are in place here and that learning curve will happen the hard way. I did
> read up on SQL limitations (need premium CALs, not just SQL CALs) and that
> you are able to run on Hyper-V (which i am) and all sorts, but I guess you
> just can't cover everything. And I sort of assumed that SBS really was a
> normal (full blow) Windows environment with the only limitation being that
> you can't have more than 75 users (and you have to be the root of the
> forest, etc.) This IP thing, for example, was an unfortunate oversight,
> although saying it like that sounds like I am conceding that it's an
> obvious one to look out for and I don't think it is and I don't believe
> that the change was signposted in pink neon, if you know what I mean.
> There might be more things like this that will trip me up. Any nuggets
> that people often overlook that you can think of?
>
> Anyway, like you say, sometimes you have to chuck and change to keep the
> ball rolling. In the meantime, still waiting for HQ to get back to me on
> this. If they give me grief I might just say "actually, I insist our
> network is protected from your IP-VPN circuit using a firewall that we can
> control rather than installing inside our LAN." Politically, I think that
> has SOME clout.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jarryd


One will remember more attending the School of hard knocks than attending a
class and listening to a monotone instructor while you're fighting to keep
awake. :-)

Yes, there are numerous limitations with SBS. After all, Microsoft bundled
multiple services and applications into one product that if bought
separately, would probably be 5 or more times the cost. In light of that,
they placed limitations, but they also made it easier for the small business
owner that may not be technically saavy by putting together a complex set of
wizards that address configuration that normally a non-SBS system would
required a tech with multiple disciplines to configure.

There are a few books on the subject that have been posted here, and in some
cases written by an SBS MVP or two.

I have Cris' link to his book, as well as a few links on the wizard, that
may help you.


================================================== ================
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-...7269967&sr=8-1
================================================== ================
SBS 2008 Wizards

Introducing the Connect to the Internet Wizard (CTIW)
http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...zard-ctiw.aspx

Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 1 of 3
http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-1-of-3.aspx

Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 2 of 3
http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-2-of-3.aspx

Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 3 of 3
http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-3-of-3.aspx

Configure the server to send and receive Exchange Server e-mail over the
Internet
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...68(WS.10).aspx

Configuring Internet Mail in Windows Small Business Server 2008
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc527480.aspx
================================================== ================
Managing Your Windows Small Business Server 2008 Network
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc546017.aspx

Deploying Microsoft Internet Security and Acceleration (ISA) Server 2006
with Windows Small Business Server 2008
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...0-bd5af3ed39fd

Downloadable documentation for Windows Small Business Server 2008
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc707659.aspx

Windows Small Business Server 2008 Repair Guide
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...85(WS.10).aspx
================================================== ================

Ace

Cool. Well that's my weekend's entertainment sorted. Haha! Thanks for the
references.

Regards,

Jarryd

"Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Jarryd" <> wrote in message
> news:FF44E078-6940-4285-9434-...
>> Hi Ace,
>>
>> I appreciate your reply. Perhaps I overreacted and apologise if I got
>> anyone's back up.
>>
>> I did try using a /24 mask so that the wizard would pick up the router,
>> which it then did, when I first ran into this problem. The only thing
>> that happened from there was that it started to dawn on me that I can't
>> really be playing the "maverick" to the SBS "wizard". I guess I don't
>> really have a problem with this, I just need to learn what other shackles
>> are in place here and that learning curve will happen the hard way. I
>> did read up on SQL limitations (need premium CALs, not just SQL CALs) and
>> that you are able to run on Hyper-V (which i am) and all sorts, but I
>> guess you just can't cover everything. And I sort of assumed that SBS
>> really was a normal (full blow) Windows environment with the only
>> limitation being that you can't have more than 75 users (and you have to
>> be the root of the forest, etc.) This IP thing, for example, was an
>> unfortunate oversight, although saying it like that sounds like I am
>> conceding that it's an obvious one to look out for and I don't think it
>> is and I don't believe that the change was signposted in pink neon, if
>> you know what I mean. There might be more things like this that will trip
>> me up. Any nuggets that people often overlook that you can think of?
>>
>> Anyway, like you say, sometimes you have to chuck and change to keep the
>> ball rolling. In the meantime, still waiting for HQ to get back to me on
>> this. If they give me grief I might just say "actually, I insist our
>> network is protected from your IP-VPN circuit using a firewall that we
>> can control rather than installing inside our LAN." Politically, I think
>> that has SOME clout.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jarryd
>
>
> One will remember more attending the School of hard knocks than attending
> a class and listening to a monotone instructor while you're fighting to
> keep awake. :-)
>
> Yes, there are numerous limitations with SBS. After all, Microsoft bundled
> multiple services and applications into one product that if bought
> separately, would probably be 5 or more times the cost. In light of that,
> they placed limitations, but they also made it easier for the small
> business owner that may not be technically saavy by putting together a
> complex set of wizards that address configuration that normally a non-SBS
> system would required a tech with multiple disciplines to configure.
>
> There are a few books on the subject that have been posted here, and in
> some cases written by an SBS MVP or two.
>
> I have Cris' link to his book, as well as a few links on the wizard, that
> may help you.
>
>
> ================================================== ================
> Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
> Co-Contributor, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
> http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-...7269967&sr=8-1
> ================================================== ================
> SBS 2008 Wizards
>
> Introducing the Connect to the Internet Wizard (CTIW)
> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...zard-ctiw.aspx
>
> Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 1 of 3
> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-1-of-3.aspx
>
> Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 2 of 3
> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-2-of-3.aspx
>
> Introducing the Internet Address Management Wizard(IAMW): Part 3 of 3
> http://blogs.technet.com/sbs/archive...rt-3-of-3.aspx
>
> Configure the server to send and receive Exchange Server e-mail over the
> Internet
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...68(WS.10).aspx
>
> Configuring Internet Mail in Windows Small Business Server 2008
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc527480.aspx
> ================================================== ================
> Managing Your Windows Small Business Server 2008 Network
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc546017.aspx
>
> Deploying Microsoft Internet Security and Acceleration (ISA) Server 2006
> with Windows Small Business Server 2008
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...0-bd5af3ed39fd
>
> Downloadable documentation for Windows Small Business Server 2008
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc707659.aspx
>
> Windows Small Business Server 2008 Repair Guide
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...85(WS.10).aspx
> ================================================== ================
>
> Ace
>

"Jarryd" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Cool. Well that's my weekend's entertainment sorted. Haha! Thanks for
> the references.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jarryd


Entertainment? I was thinking more on the lines of a couple of Sam Adams and
some Crown Royal, along with watching the Phils take the Yanks and Eagles
over the Giants! :-)

Oh, and you're welcome.

Ace