SBS 2008 problem. Urgent help required.

Hi,

I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.

This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was plugged into.
As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with just
unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one. However,
(stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same power strip.
First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server (my SBS
server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services had
stopped working.

Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which had
stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply restart
the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then another 10 to
start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS Console
relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS, Update and
various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to manually
start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After trying this
nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've waited an
hour and still nothing loads.

I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In task
manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing strange in
the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or similar, task
manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't click on
anything.

I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on the start
menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding now.

I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any tools on
the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the various
screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops responding.

Help..

UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same issue
http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html

I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I have done:

1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from starting
(this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB 6.0 SP1.
3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and System
Attendant.
4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.

However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay disabled but
as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it as it is
for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening and try
either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply bring the
problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely re-install
Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install the
client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM support
pages.

Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they can add?

Thanks,
Chris

"ChrisUK" wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>
> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was plugged into.
> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with just
> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one. However,
> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same power strip.
> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server (my SBS
> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services had
> stopped working.
>
> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which had
> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply restart
> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then another 10 to
> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS Console
> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS, Update and
> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to manually
> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After trying this
> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've waited an
> hour and still nothing loads.
>
> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In task
> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing strange in
> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or similar, task
> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't click on
> anything.
>
> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on the start
> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding now.
>
> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any tools on
> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the various
> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops responding.
>
> Help..
>
>

Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking 10
minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown script that
first stops the Exchange services using net stop will save a LOT of time. I
suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop the Trend services as well.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
> UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same issue
> http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
>
> I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I have
> done:
>
> 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
> 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
> starting
> (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB 6.0
> SP1.
> 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and System
> Attendant.
> 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
>
> However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay disabled
> but
> as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it as it
> is
> for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening and
> try
> either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply bring
> the
> problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
> re-install
> Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install the
> client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM support
> pages.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they can
> add?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>
> "ChrisUK" wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>>
>> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was plugged
>> into.
>> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with just
>> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one. However,
>> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same power
>> strip.
>> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server (my
>> SBS
>> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services had
>> stopped working.
>>
>> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which had
>> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
>> restart
>> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then another
>> 10 to
>> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
>> Console
>> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS, Update
>> and
>> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
>> manually
>> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After trying
>> this
>> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
>> waited an
>> hour and still nothing loads.
>>
>> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In task
>> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing strange
>> in
>> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or similar,
>> task
>> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't click on
>> anything.
>>
>> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on the
>> start
>> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding now.
>>
>> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any tools
>> on
>> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
>> various
>> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
>> responding.
>>
>> Help..
>>
>>

argh, we've just shelled out for the TM AV solution as it was recommended by
my Software vendor (he's always been really good in the past). Which AV
program would you recommend, charlie?

I'll manually stop those services before restarting - thanks for the tip!

I've read on the TM website I would need to uninstall the client agent from
each users system, then uninstall from the server. If I were to reinstall it
and still get the same issue I'd be very annoyed and I'd have lost a whole
day :-(. Maybe it is time to switch to another AV program, but surely other
people run TM without issues..


"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking 10
> minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown script that
> first stops the Exchange services using net stop will save a LOT of time. I
> suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop the Trend services as well.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
>
>
>
>
> "ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
> news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
> > UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same issue
> > http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
> >
> > I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I have
> > done:
> >
> > 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
> > 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
> > starting
> > (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB 6.0
> > SP1.
> > 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and System
> > Attendant.
> > 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
> >
> > However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay disabled
> > but
> > as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it as it
> > is
> > for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening and
> > try
> > either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply bring
> > the
> > problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
> > re-install
> > Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install the
> > client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM support
> > pages.
> >
> > Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they can
> > add?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
> > "ChrisUK" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
> >>
> >> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was plugged
> >> into.
> >> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with just
> >> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one. However,
> >> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same power
> >> strip.
> >> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server (my
> >> SBS
> >> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services had
> >> stopped working.
> >>
> >> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which had
> >> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
> >> restart
> >> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then another
> >> 10 to
> >> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
> >> Console
> >> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS, Update
> >> and
> >> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
> >> manually
> >> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After trying
> >> this
> >> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
> >> waited an
> >> hour and still nothing loads.
> >>
> >> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In task
> >> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing strange
> >> in
> >> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or similar,
> >> task
> >> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't click on
> >> anything.
> >>
> >> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on the
> >> start
> >> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding now.
> >>
> >> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any tools
> >> on
> >> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
> >> various
> >> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
> >> responding.
> >>
> >> Help..
> >>
> >>
>
> .
>

The AV industry has reached a tipping point imo. Their applications have
become bloated beyond what many think their mission should be - catching/preventing
malware from infecting your computer. With NIC specific firewalls, web site
scanning, spam scanning and so on, there are a great many services running
at the same time that can and do either get in each others way or consume
so many CPU cycles that systems run at a crawl. The worst offender for Trend
Micro right now is the remote scanning engine which causes it all to fell
like a 8086 processor with dementia.

Several are using remote mail cleansing services and edge devices to clean
the mail and block the contaminated websites and running only traditional
"workstation class" AV software on the server and the stations, no email
scanning, especially the exchange server, either as a stand alone or if part
of the SBS. While I am not recommending this, I am pointing out that if
you are good with remote email filtering and UTM edge drvices you might consider
this.

As far as the general AV as we used to love it and have grown to hate it,
Trend Worry Free Advanced is seemingly no better or worse than the others.
This has the potential to turn into a political/religious/top vs. bottom
post discussion, so let me point out that everyone will have their favorites
among the most frequently mentioned besides Trend are Sophos, Symantec End
Point, Avast, AVG and a host of others I can't be bothered to look up the
spelling for.

IMO, better the devil you know unless you just can't sleep in the same room
with it, then cast it out and fiind a new devil. But devils they are, all
of them.

-
Larry
Please post the resolution to your
issue so others may benefit
-
Get Your SBS Health Check at
www.sbsbpa.com


> argh, we've just shelled out for the TM AV solution as it was
> recommended by my Software vendor (he's always been really good in the
> past). Which AV program would you recommend, charlie?
>
> I'll manually stop those services before restarting - thanks for the
> tip!
>
> I've read on the TM website I would need to uninstall the client agent
> from each users system, then uninstall from the server. If I were to
> reinstall it and still get the same issue I'd be very annoyed and I'd
> have lost a whole day :-(. Maybe it is time to switch to another AV
> program, but surely other people run TM without issues..
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>
>> Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking
>> 10 minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown
>> script that first stops the Exchange services using net stop will
>> save a LOT of time. I suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop
>> the Trend services as well.
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
>> "ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
>> news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
>>
>>> UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same
>>> issue
>>> http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
>>>
>>> I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I
>>> have done:
>>>
>>> 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
>>> 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
>>> starting
>>> (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB
>>> 6.0
>>> SP1.
>>> 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and
>>> System
>>> Attendant.
>>> 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
>>> However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay
>>> disabled
>>> but
>>> as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it
>>> as it
>>> is
>>> for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening
>>> and
>>> try
>>> either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply
>>> bring
>>> the
>>> problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
>>> re-install
>>> Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install
>>> the
>>> client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM
>>> support
>>> pages.
>>> Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they
>>> can add?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris
>>> "ChrisUK" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was
>>>> plugged
>>>> into.
>>>> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with
>>>> just
>>>> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one.
>>>> However,
>>>> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same
>>>> power
>>>> strip.
>>>> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server
>>>> (my
>>>> SBS
>>>> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services
>>>> had
>>>> stopped working.
>>>> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which
>>>> had
>>>> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
>>>> restart
>>>> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then
>>>> another
>>>> 10 to
>>>> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
>>>> Console
>>>> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS,
>>>> Update
>>>> and
>>>> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
>>>> manually
>>>> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After
>>>> trying
>>>> this
>>>> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
>>>> waited an
>>>> hour and still nothing loads.
>>>> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In
>>>> task
>>>> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing
>>>> strange
>>>> in
>>>> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or
>>>> similar,
>>>> task
>>>> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't
>>>> click on
>>>> anything.
>>>> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on
>>>> the
>>>> start
>>>> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding
>>>> now.
>>>> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any
>>>> tools
>>>> on
>>>> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
>>>> various
>>>> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
>>>> responding.
>>>> Help..
>>>>
>> .
>>

Yup. Devils indeed. I've reached the point of thinking that I don't want any
AV on the server at all. Full stop. Possibly Forefront for the Exchange
portion. And something on the firewall/router, or simply client based AV
only.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in message
news: m...
> The AV industry has reached a tipping point imo. Their applications have
> become bloated beyond what many think their mission should be -
> catching/preventing malware from infecting your computer. With NIC
> specific firewalls, web site scanning, spam scanning and so on, there are
> a great many services running at the same time that can and do either get
> in each others way or consume so many CPU cycles that systems run at a
> crawl. The worst offender for Trend Micro right now is the remote
> scanning engine which causes it all to fell like a 8086 processor with
> dementia.
>
> Several are using remote mail cleansing services and edge devices to clean
> the mail and block the contaminated websites and running only traditional
> "workstation class" AV software on the server and the stations, no email
> scanning, especially the exchange server, either as a stand alone or if
> part of the SBS. While I am not recommending this, I am pointing out that
> if you are good with remote email filtering and UTM edge drvices you might
> consider this.
>
> As far as the general AV as we used to love it and have grown to hate it,
> Trend Worry Free Advanced is seemingly no better or worse than the others.
> This has the potential to turn into a political/religious/top vs. bottom
> post discussion, so let me point out that everyone will have their
> favorites among the most frequently mentioned besides Trend are Sophos,
> Symantec End Point, Avast, AVG and a host of others I can't be bothered to
> look up the spelling for.
>
> IMO, better the devil you know unless you just can't sleep in the same
> room with it, then cast it out and fiind a new devil. But devils they
> are, all of them.
>
> -
> Larry
> Please post the resolution to your
> issue so others may benefit
> -
> Get Your SBS Health Check at
> www.sbsbpa.com
>
>
>> argh, we've just shelled out for the TM AV solution as it was
>> recommended by my Software vendor (he's always been really good in the
>> past). Which AV program would you recommend, charlie?
>>
>> I'll manually stop those services before restarting - thanks for the
>> tip!
>>
>> I've read on the TM website I would need to uninstall the client agent
>> from each users system, then uninstall from the server. If I were to
>> reinstall it and still get the same issue I'd be very annoyed and I'd
>> have lost a whole day :-(. Maybe it is time to switch to another AV
>> program, but surely other people run TM without issues..
>>
>> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>>
>>> Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking
>>> 10 minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown
>>> script that first stops the Exchange services using net stop will
>>> save a LOT of time. I suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop
>>> the Trend services as well.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charlie.
>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
>>> "ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
>>> news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
>>>
>>>> UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same
>>>> issue
>>>> http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
>>>>
>>>> I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I
>>>> have done:
>>>>
>>>> 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
>>>> 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
>>>> starting
>>>> (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB
>>>> 6.0
>>>> SP1.
>>>> 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and
>>>> System
>>>> Attendant.
>>>> 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
>>>> However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay
>>>> disabled
>>>> but
>>>> as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it
>>>> as it
>>>> is
>>>> for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening
>>>> and
>>>> try
>>>> either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply
>>>> bring
>>>> the
>>>> problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
>>>> re-install
>>>> Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install
>>>> the
>>>> client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM
>>>> support
>>>> pages.
>>>> Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they
>>>> can add?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris
>>>> "ChrisUK" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was
>>>>> plugged
>>>>> into.
>>>>> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with
>>>>> just
>>>>> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one.
>>>>> However,
>>>>> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same
>>>>> power
>>>>> strip.
>>>>> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server
>>>>> (my
>>>>> SBS
>>>>> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services
>>>>> had
>>>>> stopped working.
>>>>> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which
>>>>> had
>>>>> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
>>>>> restart
>>>>> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then
>>>>> another
>>>>> 10 to
>>>>> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
>>>>> Console
>>>>> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS,
>>>>> Update
>>>>> and
>>>>> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
>>>>> manually
>>>>> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After
>>>>> trying
>>>>> this
>>>>> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
>>>>> waited an
>>>>> hour and still nothing loads.
>>>>> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In
>>>>> task
>>>>> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing
>>>>> strange
>>>>> in
>>>>> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or
>>>>> similar,
>>>>> task
>>>>> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't
>>>>> click on
>>>>> anything.
>>>>> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on
>>>>> the
>>>>> start
>>>>> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding
>>>>> now.
>>>>> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any
>>>>> tools
>>>>> on
>>>>> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
>>>>> various
>>>>> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
>>>>> responding.
>>>>> Help..
>>>>>
>>> .
>>>
>
>

I don't use any AV on the server any more. I use ESET for everything,
and all my SBS 2003 servers run various versions of ESET. But see my
thread here:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=262642

I now don't use any AV on the server, and I make sure I don't browse
the web on the server.




Jim



On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:55:37 +0000 (UTC), Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]
<> wrote:

>The AV industry has reached a tipping point imo. Their applications have
>become bloated beyond what many think their mission should be - catching/preventing
>malware from infecting your computer. With NIC specific firewalls, web site
>scanning, spam scanning and so on, there are a great many services running
>at the same time that can and do either get in each others way or consume
>so many CPU cycles that systems run at a crawl. The worst offender for Trend
>Micro right now is the remote scanning engine which causes it all to fell
>like a 8086 processor with dementia.
>
>Several are using remote mail cleansing services and edge devices to clean
>the mail and block the contaminated websites and running only traditional
>"workstation class" AV software on the server and the stations, no email
>scanning, especially the exchange server, either as a stand alone or if part
>of the SBS. While I am not recommending this, I am pointing out that if
>you are good with remote email filtering and UTM edge drvices you might consider
>this.
>
>As far as the general AV as we used to love it and have grown to hate it,
>Trend Worry Free Advanced is seemingly no better or worse than the others.
> This has the potential to turn into a political/religious/top vs. bottom
>post discussion, so let me point out that everyone will have their favorites
>among the most frequently mentioned besides Trend are Sophos, Symantec End
>Point, Avast, AVG and a host of others I can't be bothered to look up the
>spelling for.
>
>IMO, better the devil you know unless you just can't sleep in the same room
>with it, then cast it out and fiind a new devil. But devils they are, all
>of them.
>
>-
>Larry
>Please post the resolution to your
>issue so others may benefit
>-
>Get Your SBS Health Check at
>www.sbsbpa.com
>
>
>> argh, we've just shelled out for the TM AV solution as it was
>> recommended by my Software vendor (he's always been really good in the
>> past). Which AV program would you recommend, charlie?
>>
>> I'll manually stop those services before restarting - thanks for the
>> tip!
>>
>> I've read on the TM website I would need to uninstall the client agent
>> from each users system, then uninstall from the server. If I were to
>> reinstall it and still get the same issue I'd be very annoyed and I'd
>> have lost a whole day :-(. Maybe it is time to switch to another AV
>> program, but surely other people run TM without issues..
>>
>> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>>
>>> Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking
>>> 10 minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown
>>> script that first stops the Exchange services using net stop will
>>> save a LOT of time. I suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop
>>> the Trend services as well.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Charlie.
>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
>>> "ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
>>> news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
>>>
>>>> UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same
>>>> issue
>>>> http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
>>>>
>>>> I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I
>>>> have done:
>>>>
>>>> 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
>>>> 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
>>>> starting
>>>> (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB
>>>> 6.0
>>>> SP1.
>>>> 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and
>>>> System
>>>> Attendant.
>>>> 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
>>>> However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay
>>>> disabled
>>>> but
>>>> as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it
>>>> as it
>>>> is
>>>> for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening
>>>> and
>>>> try
>>>> either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply
>>>> bring
>>>> the
>>>> problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
>>>> re-install
>>>> Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install
>>>> the
>>>> client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM
>>>> support
>>>> pages.
>>>> Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they
>>>> can add?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris
>>>> "ChrisUK" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was
>>>>> plugged
>>>>> into.
>>>>> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with
>>>>> just
>>>>> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one.
>>>>> However,
>>>>> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same
>>>>> power
>>>>> strip.
>>>>> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server
>>>>> (my
>>>>> SBS
>>>>> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services
>>>>> had
>>>>> stopped working.
>>>>> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which
>>>>> had
>>>>> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
>>>>> restart
>>>>> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then
>>>>> another
>>>>> 10 to
>>>>> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
>>>>> Console
>>>>> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS,
>>>>> Update
>>>>> and
>>>>> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
>>>>> manually
>>>>> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After
>>>>> trying
>>>>> this
>>>>> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
>>>>> waited an
>>>>> hour and still nothing loads.
>>>>> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In
>>>>> task
>>>>> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing
>>>>> strange
>>>>> in
>>>>> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or
>>>>> similar,
>>>>> task
>>>>> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't
>>>>> click on
>>>>> anything.
>>>>> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on
>>>>> the
>>>>> start
>>>>> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding
>>>>> now.
>>>>> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any
>>>>> tools
>>>>> on
>>>>> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
>>>>> various
>>>>> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
>>>>> responding.
>>>>> Help..
>>>>>
>>> .
>>>
>

In article <esB$>,
says...
> I've reached the point of thinking that I don't want any
> AV on the server at all. Full stop.
>

I can't believe ANYONE would utter those words - NO AV ON A SERVER!

You don't need the full SMTP scanning AV product, but you do need a
File/Memory based scanner and if you've done your homework and bought a
real server with a proper amount of CPU/RAM you won't see any
performance impact from it.

I don't install SMTP scanners on email servers, I let the firewall block
any content that could compromise the user through HTTP/SMTP/FTP.

I do not consider a NAT Router anything close to a firewall.

I rather leave networking, get a job as a shoe-sales person, than
install an unprotected server.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
(remove 999 for proper email address)

Using AVG sbs edition, much better now, on version 8 and now a 9 has just
been released promising to be even slicker. Also contains exchange plugin.

With recent tests on older systems (XP) with low memory, have found to
compare with Microsoft security essentials.
--
Jason Boull, MCP


"Jim" wrote:

> I don't use any AV on the server any more. I use ESET for everything,
> and all my SBS 2003 servers run various versions of ESET. But see my
> thread here:
>
> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=262642
>
> I now don't use any AV on the server, and I make sure I don't browse
> the web on the server.
>
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:55:37 +0000 (UTC), Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]
> <> wrote:
>
> >The AV industry has reached a tipping point imo. Their applications have
> >become bloated beyond what many think their mission should be - catching/preventing
> >malware from infecting your computer. With NIC specific firewalls, web site
> >scanning, spam scanning and so on, there are a great many services running
> >at the same time that can and do either get in each others way or consume
> >so many CPU cycles that systems run at a crawl. The worst offender for Trend
> >Micro right now is the remote scanning engine which causes it all to fell
> >like a 8086 processor with dementia.
> >
> >Several are using remote mail cleansing services and edge devices to clean
> >the mail and block the contaminated websites and running only traditional
> >"workstation class" AV software on the server and the stations, no email
> >scanning, especially the exchange server, either as a stand alone or if part
> >of the SBS. While I am not recommending this, I am pointing out that if
> >you are good with remote email filtering and UTM edge drvices you might consider
> >this.
> >
> >As far as the general AV as we used to love it and have grown to hate it,
> >Trend Worry Free Advanced is seemingly no better or worse than the others.
> > This has the potential to turn into a political/religious/top vs. bottom
> >post discussion, so let me point out that everyone will have their favorites
> >among the most frequently mentioned besides Trend are Sophos, Symantec End
> >Point, Avast, AVG and a host of others I can't be bothered to look up the
> >spelling for.
> >
> >IMO, better the devil you know unless you just can't sleep in the same room
> >with it, then cast it out and fiind a new devil. But devils they are, all
> >of them.
> >
> >-
> >Larry
> >Please post the resolution to your
> >issue so others may benefit
> >-
> >Get Your SBS Health Check at
> >www.sbsbpa.com
> >
> >
> >> argh, we've just shelled out for the TM AV solution as it was
> >> recommended by my Software vendor (he's always been really good in the
> >> past). Which AV program would you recommend, charlie?
> >>
> >> I'll manually stop those services before restarting - thanks for the
> >> tip!
> >>
> >> I've read on the TM website I would need to uninstall the client agent
> >> from each users system, then uninstall from the server. If I were to
> >> reinstall it and still get the same issue I'd be very annoyed and I'd
> >> have lost a whole day :-(. Maybe it is time to switch to another AV
> >> program, but surely other people run TM without issues..
> >>
> >> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
> >>
> >>> Don't use Trend, but a comment on one part of this- rebooting taking
> >>> 10 minutes. Several of us have found that using a manual shutdown
> >>> script that first stops the Exchange services using net stop will
> >>> save a LOT of time. I suspect it's also a good idea to manually stop
> >>> the Trend services as well.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Charlie.
> >>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel
> >>> "ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
> >>> news:F28D5CCF-ED43-4AD9-A93B-...
> >>>
> >>>> UPDATE: I have found a thread where someone is getting the same
> >>>> issue
> >>>> http://www.vistax64.com/sbs-server/2...esponsive.html
> >>>>
> >>>> I got some ideas / pointers from the help there and this is what I
> >>>> have done:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) rebooted the server using a cmd line, shutdown -s
> >>>> 2) booted into safe mode and stopped all Trend Micro services from
> >>>> starting
> >>>> (this is what a few of the suggestions mentioned). I am running WFB
> >>>> 6.0
> >>>> SP1.
> >>>> 3) I set 2 Exchange services to Delay Start, Information Store and
> >>>> System
> >>>> Attendant.
> >>>> 4) rebooted into normal mode and everything seems to be working OK.
> >>>> However, I obviously don't want my Trend Micro services to stay
> >>>> disabled
> >>>> but
> >>>> as my users have been without the server for 3 hours I'm leaving it
> >>>> as it
> >>>> is
> >>>> for now. I will probably wait until the weekend or late one evening
> >>>> and
> >>>> try
> >>>> either re-enabling the Trend services (I suspect that will simply
> >>>> bring
> >>>> the
> >>>> problem back and plague me with 30min restarts) or just completely
> >>>> re-install
> >>>> Trend Micro WFB 6.0. I'm not sure whether I'll need to re-install
> >>>> the
> >>>> client/server agent on the client machines too.. I'll scour the TM
> >>>> support
> >>>> pages.
> >>>> Does anyone have any thoughts / suggestions / further reading they
> >>>> can add?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Chris
> >>>> "ChrisUK" wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was
> >>>>> plugged
> >>>>> into.
> >>>>> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one.
> >>>>> However,
> >>>>> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same
> >>>>> power
> >>>>> strip.
> >>>>> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server
> >>>>> (my
> >>>>> SBS
> >>>>> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services
> >>>>> had
> >>>>> stopped working.
> >>>>> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which
> >>>>> had
> >>>>> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply
> >>>>> restart
> >>>>> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then
> >>>>> another
> >>>>> 10 to
> >>>>> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
> >>>>> Console
> >>>>> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS,
> >>>>> Update
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to
> >>>>> manually
> >>>>> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After
> >>>>> trying
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've
> >>>>> waited an
> >>>>> hour and still nothing loads.
> >>>>> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In
> >>>>> task
> >>>>> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing
> >>>>> strange
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or
> >>>>> similar,
> >>>>> task
> >>>>> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't
> >>>>> click on
> >>>>> anything.
> >>>>> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> start
> >>>>> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding
> >>>>> now.
> >>>>> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any
> >>>>> tools
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the
> >>>>> various
> >>>>> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
> >>>>> responding.
> >>>>> Help..
> >>>>>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >
> .
>

"ChrisUK" <> wrote in message
news:0B1FB5EC-83A3-4BC1-A58A-...
>
> I have a small SBS 2008 domain with a big problem.
>
> This morning I wanted to change the power strip my server was plugged
> into.
> As it has 2 PSU's running from a UPS I thought I'd get away with just
> unplugging the power strip and changing it for the new one. However,
> (stupidly) I forgot the switch was also plugged into that same power
> strip.
> First, I realised Outlook wasn't connecting the the Exchange server (my
> SBS
> server). I Looked on the server and a few of the Exchange services had
> stopped working.
>
> Fair enough, I thought. As there were possible other services which had
> stopped and as it was still early morning I thought I would simply restart
> the server. It took around 10 minutes to actually shutdown then another 10
> to
> start back up. Once it has started back up I have errors in the SBS
> Console
> relating to various services which haven't started such as BITS, Update
> and
> various Exchange services. I then tried to access services.msc to manually
> start these but the msc shell doesn't load and no error. After trying this
> nothing seems load when I try to run various tools / programs. I've waited
> an
> hour and still nothing loads.
>
> I've tried another restart (which also took around 20 minutes). In task
> manager I can see there are no Applications running and nothing strange in
> the processes tab. Once i've tried to access services.msc or similar, task
> manager also becomes unresponsive ie it's on screen but I can't click on
> anything.
>
> I was going to restart again (out of desperation) but nothing on the start
> menu responds to being clicked and Task Manager isn't responding now.
>
> I'm struggling to think of next steps as I can't seem to access any tools
> on
> the server. SBS console works in as much as I can click around the various
> screens, but as soon as I try and run anything from it it stops
> responding.
>
I had similar symptoms after the single power supply failed in an SBS
server. It turned out AD was corrupted from the sudden shutdown. Restoring
system state cured the problem. I'm not sure it's so likely to be the same
for you, since your server did not shutdown during the original incident,
and I would not have thought the loss of a network switch would corrupt AD,
but the symptoms sound very similar. It was pretty quick to restore system
state from the previous backup, and nothing was lost so you could decide if
you want to try it.