SBS not for everyone?

This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers that
we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to have
computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with a
server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
server in the business, he does make some valid points.
Curious what others here have to say?

1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
really a beefy one.
2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)

He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is fine
using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since the
majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB applications
that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation and it worked fine
before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can connect to WinXP but
the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go over the 10 user limit
of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys router
firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey and with
the tapes and the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes fail, drives
fail, user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take offsite.

So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted the
LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB drive to
do that.

I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what would
you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs need to be
justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to benefit his
business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me. My goals are
to help the business first with their needs and make recommendations then if
I can help, I can charge for my services but never the other way around.

Thanks,
--
Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
Email: support at rdfts dot com

In news:%23OHvl7%,
Rick F <> typed:
> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they
> currently are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new
> building and he wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few
> "newer" computers that we will just move over. He understands the
> need for the employees to have computers at their desk but he is
> questioning the cost involved with a server and honestly even though
> I do this for a living and recommend a server in the business, he
> does make some valid points. Curious what others here have to say?
>
> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
> really a beefy one.
> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>
> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is
> fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet
> since the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few
> LOB applications that are on the server but it used to be on a
> workstation and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only
> 10 people can connect to WinXP but the software has user licenses too
> so he wouldn't go over the 10 user limit of XP (currently only has 3
> LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys router firewall is all the
> protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey and with the tapes and
> the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes fail, drives fail,
> user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take offsite.
> So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry
> about backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from
> anywhere, does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool
> collaborating functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email
> with hotmail is just fine. He is trying to justify all the extra
> expenses to having his "own" server when he feels that he can use the
> resources on the Internet, especially email for free (or just $20 a
> year for an account). Granted the LOB apps need to be backed up but I
> can purchase an inexpensive USB drive to do that.
>
> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs
> need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and
> to benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue
> for me. My goals are to help the business first with their needs and
> make recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for my services
> but never the other way around.
> Thanks,

Does he: (or do his users) use data files at all (create memos,
spreadsheets, whatnot? Any centralized management for antivirus on
workstations? Care whether he 'owns' his data or not? Want to use his own
domain name to 'brand' his e-mail so he isn't sending mail from
? He knows that he can't connect 12 workstations in
a workgroup and have them all share data because of the 10-connection limit
in WinXP Pro or W2k Pro (5 in XP Home), right?

Not everyone needs a server, it's true. It may not be a fit for him.
However, I'd probably recommend one if it were me.

Rick,

This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:

1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell for
under $3k.
2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up the
workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up the single
server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB drives that could
back up a small server for about $100. That's not much money compared to
having all the employees redo all their work. I see you mentioned cheap USB
drives already, so why not use that to back up the server? Make sure he
knows that he not only needs to run backups everyday, but he also needs to
rotate them off site so they are safe from fire and burglars.
3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an auto dealership that only had a
Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me, but it says
something about a business.
4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't have at
least a small website.

--
Ginny Caughey
..NET Compact Framework MVP


"Rick F" <> wrote in message
news:%23OHvl7%...
> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
> are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
> wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers
> that we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to
> have computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with
> a server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
> server in the business, he does make some valid points.
> Curious what others here have to say?
>
> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
> really a beefy one.
> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>
> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is fine
> using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since the
> majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB applications
> that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation and it worked
> fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can connect to WinXP
> but the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go over the 10 user
> limit of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys
> router firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey
> and with the tapes and the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes
> fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take
> offsite.
>
> So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
> backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
> does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
> functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
> fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
> server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
> especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted the
> LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB drive
> to do that.
>
> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs need
> to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to benefit
> his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me. My goals
> are to help the business first with their needs and make recommendations
> then if I can help, I can charge for my services but never the other way
> around.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
> Email: support at rdfts dot com
>
>
>

Rick,

You are already ahead of the game with your client because you are listening
to their wants. If you can provide what they want and at the same time
protect their data from loss or abuse you have done your job. It is also
true that they could purchase a domain and have their business email and
website hosted for a few dollars a month without a server. There is nothing
wrong using peer to peer networking. This is why Microsoft allows up to 10
users to access XP Professional. My biggest push for a server based network
would be the data protection and overall network security provided form
having sensitive data being housed on the domain server and computer policy.
I don't know if it can be quantified, but in my experience I seem to have
fewer service calls on computers that are part of a domain.

Thanks,
Bob

"Ginny Caughey [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:u%23cqKP$...
> Rick,
>
> This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:
>
> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell for
> under $3k.
> 2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up the
> workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up the
> single server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB drives that
> could back up a small server for about $100. That's not much money
> compared to having all the employees redo all their work. I see you
> mentioned cheap USB drives already, so why not use that to back up the
> server? Make sure he knows that he not only needs to run backups everyday,
> but he also needs to rotate them off site so they are safe from fire and
> burglars.
> 3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an auto dealership that only had a
> Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me, but it says
> something about a business.
> 4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't have at
> least a small website.
>
> --
> Ginny Caughey
> .NET Compact Framework MVP
>
>
> "Rick F" <> wrote in message
> news:%23OHvl7%...
>> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
>> are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
>> wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers
>> that we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to
>> have computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with
>> a server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
>> server in the business, he does make some valid points.
>> Curious what others here have to say?
>>
>> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
>> really a beefy one.
>> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>
>> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is
>> fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since
>> the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB
>> applications that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation
>> and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can
>> connect to WinXP but the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go
>> over the 10 user limit of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the
>> most). A Linksys router firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape
>> backups are pricey and with the tapes and the human intervention it does
>> get costly. Tapes fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user
>> forgets to take offsite.
>>
>> So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
>> backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
>> does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
>> functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
>> fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
>> server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
>> especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted
>> the LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB
>> drive to do that.
>>
>> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs
>> need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to
>> benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me.
>> My goals are to help the business first with their needs and make
>> recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for my services but
>> never the other way around.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>> Email: support at rdfts dot com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

In news:u%23cqKP$,
Ginny Caughey [MVP] <> typed:
> Rick,
>
> This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:

Pardon my rudely jumping in to your nice reply
>
> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell
> for under $3k.

....note that skimping on hardware will not be a good idea in the long run -
when you get a decent box with SCSI RAID, and a tape drive & decent managed
UPS, and good antivirus software, it can add up. That said, I'd say $5k
would buy a very nice box & CALs, etc.....if people won't spend the money
wisely on network kit, I politely decline the work. They will end up paying
for something later and will likely balk at my bills, as well, esp if I am
asked to clean up a mess that wouldn't have occurred had they taken my
advice. Just my $.02.

> 2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up
> the workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up
> the single server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB
> drives that could back up a small server for about $100.

....Except if you want to take backups offsite - and I tend to be
old-fashioned in that regard. Tape is cheaper in the long run, you don't run
the risk of a bad IDE drive in an external USB drive hosing you, and I've
found it to be a lot more reliable. SDLT or Ultrium/LTO is worth it.

> That's not
> much money compared to having all the employees redo all their work.
> I see you mentioned cheap USB drives already, so why not use that to
> back up the server? Make sure he knows that he not only needs to run
> backups everyday, but he also needs to rotate them off site so they
> are safe from fire and burglars. 3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an
> auto dealership that only
> had a Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me,
> but it says something about a business.

I completely agree. Shades of Nigerian spam..... a major multinational
investment bank with a Yahoo account? ;-)

> 4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't
> have at least a small website.

Ditto.
>
>
> "Rick F" <> wrote in message
> news:%23OHvl7%...
>> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they
>> currently are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new
>> building and he wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few
>> "newer" computers that we will just move over. He understands the
>> need for the employees to have computers at their desk but he is
>> questioning the cost involved with a server and honestly even though
>> I do this for a living and recommend a server in the business, he
>> does make some valid points. Curious what others here have to say?
>>
>> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k,
>> not really a beefy one.
>> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>
>> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He
>> is fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet
>> since the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few
>> LOB applications that are on the server but it used to be on a
>> workstation and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted
>> only 10 people can connect to WinXP but the software has user
>> licenses too so he wouldn't go over the 10 user limit of XP
>> (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys router
>> firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey and
>> with the tapes and the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes
>> fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take
>> offsite. So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to
>> worry
>> about backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from
>> anywhere, does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool
>> collaborating functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email
>> with hotmail is just fine. He is trying to justify all the extra
>> expenses to having his "own" server when he feels that he can use
>> the resources on the Internet, especially email for free (or just
>> $20 a year for an account). Granted the LOB apps need to be backed
>> up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB drive to do that.
>>
>> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the
>> costs need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for
>> him and to benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate
>> revenue for me. My goals are to help the business first with their
>> needs and make recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for
>> my services but never the other way around.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>> Email: support at rdfts dot com

Yeah ...makes me all nice and warm and comfy.

tester wrote:

>Personally,
>
>I refuse to do business with any business that does not get it's own domain
>name and use a decent email address.
>Hotmail, aohell, msn, yahoo, etc. those are toys. If you use a freebie
>address, you look like a freebie. The cost of email and a real domain is so
>cheap and deductable that I feel like it is an insult. You don't care
>enough to have a legit "storefront". Shoot even if it is a simple one page
>web site that give directions and hours and a phone number. In today's
>world I find no excuse for it. Now I will step off my soap box.
>
>
>You can get a Dell refurb with SATA Drives and SBS2003. Saw one with SBS
>Standard, 10 CAL's 3x73gb SCSI, RAID etc for under 2 grand today.
>
>Just my $.02
>
>
>"Rick F" <> wrote in message
>news:%23OHvl7%. ..
>
>
>>This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>>I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
>>are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
>>wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers
>>that we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to
>>have computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with
>>a server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
>>server in the business, he does make some valid points.
>>Curious what others here have to say?
>>
>>1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
>>really a beefy one.
>>2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>>3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>>4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>>5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>
>>He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is fine
>>using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since the
>>majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB applications
>>that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation and it worked
>>fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can connect to WinXP
>>but the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go over the 10 user
>>limit of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys
>>router firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey
>>and with the tapes and the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes
>>fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take
>>offsite.
>>
>>So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
>>backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
>>does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
>>functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
>>fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
>>server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
>>especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted the
>>LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB drive
>>to do that.
>>
>>I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>>would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs need
>>to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to benefit
>>his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me. My goals
>>are to help the business first with their needs and make recommendations
>>then if I can help, I can charge for my services but never the other way
>>around.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>--
>>Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>>RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>>Email: support at rdfts dot com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell for
> under $3k.

I am sure I will hear about it on this one. But for my business at home (not
related to server work) I bought a Compaq ML350 G1 off eBay with Dual 850
MHZ, 4*9 Gb drives, RAID controller and 12/24 dat. I think it cost me $400 +
shipping. I installed SBS2003 trial and later purchased and registered my
copy. So far working great. Of course my wife and I are the only users but I
needed to be able to run a SQL DB and remote email with all the advanced
features that a web based account can't offer. Of course I also registered
my own domain name as I also hate it when people use crappy free accounts or
AWOL.

I have often tought that charities and churches on short budgets should look
at used servers. Especially since they can get good pricing on the software.
For small networks it works great. Load up on CPU and MEM. Hard drive
subsystems haven't gotten that much faster since then - especially compared
to current low end servers. Get a good brand one - since you don't have any
support at least there is ample documentation at the manufacturers web site
and a ready supply of cheap used parts.

May not work in your situation but I just wanted to illustrate it can be
done.

Tony Vrolyk

Lanwench (cool name ;-D ),

I'm not advocating cheap hardware either and I actually agree with you on
that. But I have found tape to be more expensive (not to mention less
reliable) than a set of USB drives for maintaining off site rotation of full
system backups. In any case, $5k is nothing compared to the cost of
recreating the data.

--
Ginny Caughey
..NET Compact Framework MVP


"Lanwench [MVP - Exchange]"
< ahoo.com> wrote in message
news:...
>
>
> In news:u%23cqKP$,
> Ginny Caughey [MVP] <> typed:
>> Rick,
>>
>> This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:
>
> Pardon my rudely jumping in to your nice reply
>>
>> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell
>> for under $3k.
>
> ...note that skimping on hardware will not be a good idea in the long
> run - when you get a decent box with SCSI RAID, and a tape drive & decent
> managed UPS, and good antivirus software, it can add up. That said, I'd
> say $5k would buy a very nice box & CALs, etc.....if people won't spend
> the money wisely on network kit, I politely decline the work. They will
> end up paying for something later and will likely balk at my bills, as
> well, esp if I am asked to clean up a mess that wouldn't have occurred had
> they taken my advice. Just my $.02.
>
>> 2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up
>> the workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up
>> the single server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB
>> drives that could back up a small server for about $100.
>
> ...Except if you want to take backups offsite - and I tend to be
> old-fashioned in that regard. Tape is cheaper in the long run, you don't
> run the risk of a bad IDE drive in an external USB drive hosing you, and
> I've found it to be a lot more reliable. SDLT or Ultrium/LTO is worth it.
>
>> That's not
>> much money compared to having all the employees redo all their work.
>> I see you mentioned cheap USB drives already, so why not use that to
>> back up the server? Make sure he knows that he not only needs to run
>> backups everyday, but he also needs to rotate them off site so they
>> are safe from fire and burglars. 3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an
>> auto dealership that only
>> had a Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me,
>> but it says something about a business.
>
> I completely agree. Shades of Nigerian spam..... a major multinational
> investment bank with a Yahoo account? ;-)
>
>> 4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't
>> have at least a small website.
>
> Ditto.
>>
>>
>> "Rick F" <> wrote in message
>> news:%23OHvl7%...
>>> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>>> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they
>>> currently are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new
>>> building and he wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few
>>> "newer" computers that we will just move over. He understands the
>>> need for the employees to have computers at their desk but he is
>>> questioning the cost involved with a server and honestly even though
>>> I do this for a living and recommend a server in the business, he
>>> does make some valid points. Curious what others here have to say?
>>>
>>> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k,
>>> not really a beefy one.
>>> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>>> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>>> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>>> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>>
>>> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He
>>> is fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet
>>> since the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few
>>> LOB applications that are on the server but it used to be on a
>>> workstation and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted
>>> only 10 people can connect to WinXP but the software has user
>>> licenses too so he wouldn't go over the 10 user limit of XP
>>> (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the most). A Linksys router
>>> firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape backups are pricey and
>>> with the tapes and the human intervention it does get costly. Tapes
>>> fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user forgets to take
>>> offsite. So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to
>>> worry
>>> about backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from
>>> anywhere, does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool
>>> collaborating functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email
>>> with hotmail is just fine. He is trying to justify all the extra
>>> expenses to having his "own" server when he feels that he can use
>>> the resources on the Internet, especially email for free (or just
>>> $20 a year for an account). Granted the LOB apps need to be backed
>>> up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB drive to do that.
>>>
>>> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>>> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the
>>> costs need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for
>>> him and to benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate
>>> revenue for me. My goals are to help the business first with their
>>> needs and make recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for
>>> my services but never the other way around.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>>> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>>> Email: support at rdfts dot com
>
>

And certainly I wouldn't buy a car from a dealership not running SBS! That's
for d*mn sure! he he.



"Ginny Caughey [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:u%23cqKP$...
> Rick,
>
> This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:
>
> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell for
> under $3k.
> 2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up the
> workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up the
> single server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB drives that
> could back up a small server for about $100. That's not much money
> compared to having all the employees redo all their work. I see you
> mentioned cheap USB drives already, so why not use that to back up the
> server? Make sure he knows that he not only needs to run backups everyday,
> but he also needs to rotate them off site so they are safe from fire and
> burglars.
> 3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an auto dealership that only had a
> Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me, but it says
> something about a business.
> 4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't have at
> least a small website.
>
> --
> Ginny Caughey
> .NET Compact Framework MVP
>
>
> "Rick F" <> wrote in message
> news:%23OHvl7%...
>> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
>> are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
>> wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers
>> that we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to
>> have computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with
>> a server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
>> server in the business, he does make some valid points.
>> Curious what others here have to say?
>>
>> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
>> really a beefy one.
>> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>
>> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is
>> fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since
>> the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB
>> applications that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation
>> and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can
>> connect to WinXP but the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go
>> over the 10 user limit of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the
>> most). A Linksys router firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape
>> backups are pricey and with the tapes and the human intervention it does
>> get costly. Tapes fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user
>> forgets to take offsite.
>>
>> So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
>> backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
>> does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
>> functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
>> fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
>> server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
>> especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted
>> the LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB
>> drive to do that.
>>
>> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs
>> need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to
>> benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me.
>> My goals are to help the business first with their needs and make
>> recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for my services but
>> never the other way around.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>> Email: support at rdfts dot com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

1. Yes I can.
2. I wanted to quote to him the USB drive option as an alternative. I would
give him the pros and cons.
3. He has a domain name now, I have SBS2K with a static IP and email is sent
directly to Exchange. He doesn't feel having his domain name email is that
important. He could also do POP3 with the ISP and retain his domain email
address.
4. They do have a website with online inventory but that is hosted with
another computer, not on SBS nor will it ever be.

--
Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
Email: support at rdfts dot com


"Ginny Caughey [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:u%23cqKP$...
> Rick,
>
> This is just my opinion, but here are some things to think about:
>
> 1. Surely you can find a nice little server from somebody like Dell for
> under $3k.
> 2. Backups cost a little money, but it's the same whether you back up the
> workstations or a single server. It's probably cheaper to back up the
> single server instead of each workstation, and you can get USB drives that
> could back up a small server for about $100. That's not much money
> compared to having all the employees redo all their work. I see you
> mentioned cheap USB drives already, so why not use that to back up the
> server? Make sure he knows that he not only needs to run backups everyday,
> but he also needs to rotate them off site so they are safe from fire and
> burglars.
> 3. I probably wouldn't buy a car from an auto dealership that only had a
> Hotmail address as its business address. Maybe that's just me, but it says
> something about a business.
> 4. I also might not buy a car from an auto dealership that didn't have at
> least a small website.
>
> --
> Ginny Caughey
> .NET Compact Framework MVP
>
>
> "Rick F" <> wrote in message
> news:%23OHvl7%...
>> This is more of a question not a problem or error per say.
>> I have a small auto dealership with about 12 employees and they currently
>> are running SBS 2000. The business is moving into a new building and he
>> wants to have new computer equipment. There is a few "newer" computers
>> that we will just move over. He understands the need for the employees to
>> have computers at their desk but he is questioning the cost involved with
>> a server and honestly even though I do this for a living and recommend a
>> server in the business, he does make some valid points.
>> Curious what others here have to say?
>>
>> 1. Servers range in prices but I am looking at spending about $3k, not
>> really a beefy one.
>> 2. I have to purchase the OS with the OEM server or upgrade SBS2K.
>> 3. I have to purchase 10 CALs (he didn't buy SA)
>> 4. I have to purchase 15 licenses for Antivirus
>> 5. Need to backup (or at least I know they do)
>>
>> He is asking, Why do I need a server, it just seems too costly? He is
>> fine using hotmail and the employees need to get on the Internet since
>> the majority of their business is on eBay. They do have a few LOB
>> applications that are on the server but it used to be on a workstation
>> and it worked fine before I installed SBS2K. Granted only 10 people can
>> connect to WinXP but the software has user licenses too so he wouldn't go
>> over the 10 user limit of XP (currently only has 3 LOB licenses at the
>> most). A Linksys router firewall is all the protection he wants. Tape
>> backups are pricey and with the tapes and the human intervention it does
>> get costly. Tapes fail, drives fail, user forgets to put in tape, user
>> forgets to take offsite.
>>
>> So it boils down to they can use hotmail, they don't have to worry about
>> backing it up, it is scanned for viruses, can be accessed from anywhere,
>> does spell check, etc, etc. Exchange has some cool collaborating
>> functionality but he said he doesn't need it, email with hotmail is just
>> fine. He is trying to justify all the extra expenses to having his "own"
>> server when he feels that he can use the resources on the Internet,
>> especially email for free (or just $20 a year for an account). Granted
>> the LOB apps need to be backed up but I can purchase an inexpensive USB
>> drive to do that.
>>
>> I am all for a server but this is starting to be a hard sell, so what
>> would you say to him? I think he will purchase a server but the costs
>> need to be justified to him. Now granted, the server is for him and to
>> benefit his business not to keep me employed and generate revenue for me.
>> My goals are to help the business first with their needs and make
>> recommendations then if I can help, I can charge for my services but
>> never the other way around.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Rick Faria - MCSE / A+
>> RDF Technical Services - www.rdfts.com
>> Email: support at rdfts dot com
>>
>>
>>
>
>