SBS2003 - external mail to company distribution group mail apparently being delivered to postmaster account

SBS 2003

Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution group
goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.

Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't get a
copy...

If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????

Mail is MS POP3 collector

Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
ideas ?

Hmm.. If I open up port 25 to my IP on the router and then telnet to the
server and send a test message then it behaves OK.

Messages go to everyone in the group and *not* the Postmaster account held
by the Administrator..

Hmm..



"Jim" <> wrote in message
news:hcs5gu$19en$...
> SBS 2003
>
> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution group
> goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.
>
> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't get
> a copy...
>
> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
> Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
> Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>
> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>
> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
> ideas ?

"Jim" <> wrote in message
news:hcs5gu$19en$...
> SBS 2003
>
> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution group
> goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.
>
> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't get
> a copy...
>
> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
> Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
> Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>
> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>
> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
> ideas ?


Assuming since you have the POP3 connector in place, and there is only one
MX record for your domain that points to the hosting provider, and all mail
going to your company from the outside world are going to the provider, then
at your POP3 hosting provider, has this group been created?

Also, in the distribution group properties, is it allowed to receive mail
from Everyone?

--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit among
responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your resolution.

Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA
2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
Microsoft Certified Trainer

For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.

If I send a message externally to

It is delivered into the Administrator inbox and says that it was sent To
the 'Administrator' this is correct as postmaster@is an alias for the
Administrator account.

However the external messages sent to ( which should
be directed to the members of that group internally) appear to go into the
Administrator's Inbox but say that they were sent To 'postmaster' ...why do
they say this as opposed to 'Administrator' as with the messages sent to
postmaster@

weird..





"Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Jim" <> wrote in message
> news:hcs5gu$19en$...
>> SBS 2003
>>
>> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution group
>> goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.
>>
>> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't get
>> a copy...
>>
>> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
>> Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
>> Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>>
>> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>>
>> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
>> ideas ?
>
>
> Assuming since you have the POP3 connector in place, and there is only one
> MX record for your domain that points to the hosting provider, and all
> mail going to your company from the outside world are going to the
> provider, then at your POP3 hosting provider, has this group been created?
>
> Also, in the distribution group properties, is it allowed to receive mail
> from Everyone?
>
> --
> Ace
>
> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
> confers no rights.
>
> Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit
> among responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your
> resolution.
>
> Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA
> 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
> Microsoft Certified Trainer
>
> For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
> http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
>

"Jim" <> wrote in message
news:hcsc37$1jqb$...

No, not necessarily weird. I made a few assumptions in my last post. Can you
confirm or respond to them, please? Allow me to re-clarify my questions for
your convenience.

1. What is your MX record pointed to? Is the MX record pointed to only your
POP3 provider, or to both your POP3 provider and to your server?

2. Does the Distribution Group properties allow for Anyone (Everyone) to
email to it? Look in the Dist Group properties in ADUC.

3. Has this group email address been created at your hosting provider?

Ace



> If I send a message externally to
>
> It is delivered into the Administrator inbox and says that it was sent To
> the 'Administrator' this is correct as postmaster@is an alias for the
> Administrator account.
>
> However the external messages sent to ( which should
> be directed to the members of that group internally) appear to go into the
> Administrator's Inbox but say that they were sent To 'postmaster' ...why
> do they say this as opposed to 'Administrator' as with the messages sent
> to postmaster@
>
> weird..
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> "Jim" <> wrote in message
>> news:hcs5gu$19en$...
>>> SBS 2003
>>>
>>> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution
>>> group goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.
>>>
>>> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't
>>> get a copy...
>>>
>>> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
>>> Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
>>> Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>>>
>>> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>>>
>>> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
>>> ideas ?
>>
>>
>> Assuming since you have the POP3 connector in place, and there is only
>> one MX record for your domain that points to the hosting provider, and
>> all mail going to your company from the outside world are going to the
>> provider, then at your POP3 hosting provider, has this group been
>> created?
>>
>> Also, in the distribution group properties, is it allowed to receive mail
>> from Everyone?
>>
>> --
>> Ace
>>
>> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
>> confers no rights.
>>
>> Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit
>> among responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your
>> resolution.
>>
>> Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA
>> 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
>> Microsoft Certified Trainer
>>
>> For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
>> http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
>>

Hi Ace,

1. Two MX records both pointing to the same IP address which is 1and1 server
in Germany by the looks of things..

2. Yes it does, as I've said earlier it works fine internally.

If I mail the group internally then all the users who are members get the
messages, the Administrator account isn't and doesn't, expected behavior.

If I mail the group externally then the message *only* ends up in the
Administrator's Inbox and says that it was sent to 'postmaster' in the To
column ?
Why does it say 'postmaster' why hasn't this changed to 'Administrator' the
owner of the alias ?

If I mail externally then this ends up in the
Administrator's Inbox as you'd expect and says that it was sent to
'Administrator' in the To column ..as you'd expect totally normal.

The company get a lot of messages from their website which are sent to
and of course these are ending up in the
Administrator's Inbox and report that they were sent To 'postmaster'

This is why I have been asked to investigate.

They want the messages to be distributed to people in the
members list.

3. The hosting provider has *@company.co.uk forwarded to a catchall POP3 box
called ...could this be the problem ?
Perhaps we should change this so that it perhaps forwards to a catchall
called something else ? maybe ?

Previous web designers have set this up at 1and1 originally.

Jim.






"Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Jim" <> wrote in message
> news:hcsc37$1jqb$...
>
> No, not necessarily weird. I made a few assumptions in my last post. Can
> you confirm or respond to them, please? Allow me to re-clarify my
> questions for your convenience.
>
> 1. What is your MX record pointed to? Is the MX record pointed to only
> your POP3 provider, or to both your POP3 provider and to your server?
>
> 2. Does the Distribution Group properties allow for Anyone (Everyone) to
> email to it? Look in the Dist Group properties in ADUC.
>
> 3. Has this group email address been created at your hosting provider?
>
> Ace
>
>
>
>> If I send a message externally to
>>
>> It is delivered into the Administrator inbox and says that it was sent To
>> the 'Administrator' this is correct as postmaster@is an alias for the
>> Administrator account.
>>
>> However the external messages sent to ( which
>> should be directed to the members of that group internally) appear to go
>> into the Administrator's Inbox but say that they were sent To
>> 'postmaster' ...why do they say this as opposed to 'Administrator' as
>> with the messages sent to postmaster@
>>
>> weird..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> "Jim" <> wrote in message
>>> news:hcs5gu$19en$...
>>>> SBS 2003
>>>>
>>>> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution
>>>> group goes to the users which are members of the group, usual
>>>> behaviour.
>>>>
>>>> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't
>>>> get a copy...
>>>>
>>>> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to the
>>>> Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
>>>> Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>>>>
>>>> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist
>>>> group..any ideas ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Assuming since you have the POP3 connector in place, and there is only
>>> one MX record for your domain that points to the hosting provider, and
>>> all mail going to your company from the outside world are going to the
>>> provider, then at your POP3 hosting provider, has this group been
>>> created?
>>>
>>> Also, in the distribution group properties, is it allowed to receive
>>> mail from Everyone?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ace
>>>
>>> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
>>> confers no rights.
>>>
>>> Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit
>>> among responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your
>>> resolution.
>>>
>>> Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE & MCSA
>>> 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
>>> Microsoft Certified Trainer
>>>
>>> For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
>>> http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
>>>
>
>
>

forgot to add...

I opened up port 25 temporarily and sent a message from telnet session to
and it was routed correctly just to the members of the
dist group.

This seems to indicate that it should be something to do with the catchall
POP3 I would image ?

Jim.




"Jim" <> wrote in message
news:hcskj8$218a$...
> Hi Ace,
>
> 1. Two MX records both pointing to the same IP address which is 1and1
> server in Germany by the looks of things..
>
> 2. Yes it does, as I've said earlier it works fine internally.
>
> If I mail the group internally then all the users who are members get the
> messages, the Administrator account isn't and doesn't, expected behavior.
>
> If I mail the group externally then the message *only* ends up in the
> Administrator's Inbox and says that it was sent to 'postmaster' in the To
> column ?
> Why does it say 'postmaster' why hasn't this changed to 'Administrator'
> the owner of the alias ?
>
> If I mail externally then this ends up in the
> Administrator's Inbox as you'd expect and says that it was sent to
> 'Administrator' in the To column ..as you'd expect totally normal.
>
> The company get a lot of messages from their website which are sent to
> and of course these are ending up in the
> Administrator's Inbox and report that they were sent To 'postmaster'
>
> This is why I have been asked to investigate.
>
> They want the messages to be distributed to people in the
> members list.
>
> 3. The hosting provider has *@company.co.uk forwarded to a catchall POP3
> box called ...could this be the problem ?
> Perhaps we should change this so that it perhaps forwards to a catchall
> called something else ? maybe ?
>
> Previous web designers have set this up at 1and1 originally.
>
> Jim.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> "Jim" <> wrote in message
>> news:hcsc37$1jqb$...
>>
>> No, not necessarily weird. I made a few assumptions in my last post. Can
>> you confirm or respond to them, please? Allow me to re-clarify my
>> questions for your convenience.
>>
>> 1. What is your MX record pointed to? Is the MX record pointed to only
>> your POP3 provider, or to both your POP3 provider and to your server?
>>
>> 2. Does the Distribution Group properties allow for Anyone (Everyone) to
>> email to it? Look in the Dist Group properties in ADUC.
>>
>> 3. Has this group email address been created at your hosting provider?
>>
>> Ace
>>
>>
>>
>>> If I send a message externally to
>>>
>>> It is delivered into the Administrator inbox and says that it was sent
>>> To the 'Administrator' this is correct as postmaster@is an alias for the
>>> Administrator account.
>>>
>>> However the external messages sent to ( which
>>> should be directed to the members of that group internally) appear to go
>>> into the Administrator's Inbox but say that they were sent To
>>> 'postmaster' ...why do they say this as opposed to 'Administrator' as
>>> with the messages sent to postmaster@
>>>
>>> weird..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ace Fekay [MCT]" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> "Jim" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:hcs5gu$19en$...
>>>>> SBS 2003
>>>>>
>>>>> Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution
>>>>> group goes to the users which are members of the group, usual
>>>>> behaviour.
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't
>>>>> get a copy...
>>>>>
>>>>> If I send a message from externally then the message *only* goes to
>>>>> the Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to
>>>>> the Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>>>>>
>>>>> Mail is MS POP3 collector
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist
>>>>> group..any ideas ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assuming since you have the POP3 connector in place, and there is only
>>>> one MX record for your domain that points to the hosting provider, and
>>>> all mail going to your company from the outside world are going to the
>>>> provider, then at your POP3 hosting provider, has this group been
>>>> created?
>>>>
>>>> Also, in the distribution group properties, is it allowed to receive
>>>> mail from Everyone?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ace
>>>>
>>>> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
>>>> confers no rights.
>>>>
>>>> Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit
>>>> among responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your
>>>> resolution.
>>>>
>>>> Ace Fekay, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE &
>>>> MCSA 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
>>>> Microsoft Certified Trainer
>>>>
>>>> For urgent issues, please contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>

Jim wrote:
> forgot to add...
>
> I opened up port 25 temporarily and sent a message from telnet session
> to and it was routed correctly just to the members
> of the dist group.
>
> This seems to indicate that it should be something to do with the
> catchall POP3 I would image ?
>

Yes. A POP3 server really expects mail for just one user per mailbox, so
doesn't bother keeping the SMTP recipient address, which does not
necessarily appear in any header (it may be in some Received: headers).

Domain-wide POP3 collection relies on the To: header to route the mail.

BCC emails, and a mailing list email is just a big BCC, deliberately do
not include recipient information in any header, only in the SMTP address.

QED.

In order of preference:

-Use SMTP to receive mail.

-Use individual POP3 mailboxes. More trouble to administer but sorts out
this problem and eliminates a lot of spam. Obviously the POP3 connector
must also be set to download mail individually.

-Check that the POP3 server adds a header containing the original SMTP
information: typically Envelope-To:. The SBS POP3 connector cannot use
such a header but most third-party downloaders can.

--
Joe

Jim wrote:

>SBS 2003
>
>Internally mail sent to main SBS distribution group
>goes to the users which are members of the group, usual behaviour.
>
>Administrator is not a member of this dist group currently so doesn't get
>a copy...
>
>If I send a message from externally then the message only goes to the
>Administrator mailbox and behaves/reports as if it were sent to the
>Postmaster ???? and no-one else gets it at all ????
>
>Mail is MS POP3 collector
>
>Doesn't affect other accounts in this way, only the main dist group..any
>ideas ?

You need to review the POP3 Connector settings, because those are what
control this.

--
Steve Foster
------------
Please reply only to the newsgroups.
For SSL Certificates, Domains, etc, visit.: https://netshop.virtual-isp.net

"Joe" <> wrote in message
news:%23h%...
> Jim wrote:
>> forgot to add...
>>
>> I opened up port 25 temporarily and sent a message from telnet session
>> to and it was routed correctly just to the members
>> of the dist group.
>>
>> This seems to indicate that it should be something to do with the
>> catchall POP3 I would image ?
>>
>
> Yes. A POP3 server really expects mail for just one user per mailbox, so
> doesn't bother keeping the SMTP recipient address, which does not
> necessarily appear in any header (it may be in some Received: headers).
>
> Domain-wide POP3 collection relies on the To: header to route the mail.
>
> BCC emails, and a mailing list email is just a big BCC, deliberately do
> not include recipient information in any header, only in the SMTP address.
>
> QED.
>
> In order of preference:
>
> -Use SMTP to receive mail.
>
> -Use individual POP3 mailboxes. More trouble to administer but sorts out
> this problem and eliminates a lot of spam. Obviously the POP3 connector
> must also be set to download mail individually.
>
> -Check that the POP3 server adds a header containing the original SMTP
> information: typically Envelope-To:. The SBS POP3 connector cannot use
> such a header but most third-party downloaders can.
>
> --
> Joe


I think you answered your own question. I would remove that * catch all
address. And having two MX records to one IP is superfluous.

The postmaster response is a standard responder based on mail RFCs to
respond to a sending MTA with error messages, such as what you are seeing.
That's why it doesn't show up in the administrator's mailbox.

Ace