SBS2003 with Server 2008 Terminal Services

I have a SBS2003 network with 25 users. We have acquired a new company and
want to allow about 10 remote users access to our mrp software. The software
supports terminal services but all users (local and remote) must use terminal
services if we switch to that.
I understand that I can join a Server 2008 member server to SBS2003 and use
it as a terminal server. Since I haven't used terminal server before I have a
couple questions:

What kind of hardware is required for the terminal server? There will be
about 25 users sharing the application but only about 10 max concurrently.
Will that require a lot of horsepower?

I have a Watchguard UTM with VPN capability. Should that be used to connect
the remote user?

If we use Comcast as ISP with 6 megs down and 2 megs up on both ends, will
the remote user experience be OK with this bandwidth?

I assume that I will need 10 more Cals for SBS2003 so the new remote users
can log into the network. I also assume that I will need to buy 25 TS Cals
for all users on the terminal server. Will I need Cals for the basic server
2008?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Steve

First question: Are you running Server 2k8 as a 32-bit or 64-bit version? If
64-bit, I'd recommend going to 2k8 R2 directly, since there are some
enhancements in Terminal Services / Remote Desktop Services in R2. But R2 is
64-bit only - no 32-bit version.

It's difficult to spec a server without knowing the size and resource
requirements of the application itself. And it will also depend on whether
you're running the application as a RemoteApp, or running a full desktop
session.

That being said, 10 concurrent TS RemoteApp users running 2-3 MS Office
applications on Server 2k8 R2 should do fine on a quad-core, single CPU,
server with 4-6GB of RAM. IOW, a pretty low end server these days. I would
expect even running full desktop sessions that you'd be fine with that.

Connectivity: If you're running full desktop sessions, I'd use Remote Web
Workplace (RWW) rather than VPN. If you're running RemoteApp sessions, your
options are a bit more limited in SBS 2003, but I'd probably set the new
server up to also do TS Gateway (RD Gateway in R2). This would require
forwarding 443 to the new server, or having it sit at a separate public IP
address. Or use a VPN, but that adds its own overhead.

Licenses: yes, you'll need 35 Server CALs for the new server. Plus 25 TS
CALs (assuming Per User).

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"Steve Schwab" <> wrote in message
news:358412B0-AF58-4227-BA03-...
>I have a SBS2003 network with 25 users. We have acquired a new company and
> want to allow about 10 remote users access to our mrp software. The
> software
> supports terminal services but all users (local and remote) must use
> terminal
> services if we switch to that.
> I understand that I can join a Server 2008 member server to SBS2003 and
> use
> it as a terminal server. Since I haven't used terminal server before I
> have a
> couple questions:
>
> What kind of hardware is required for the terminal server? There will be
> about 25 users sharing the application but only about 10 max concurrently.
> Will that require a lot of horsepower?
>
> I have a Watchguard UTM with VPN capability. Should that be used to
> connect
> the remote user?
>
> If we use Comcast as ISP with 6 megs down and 2 megs up on both ends, will
> the remote user experience be OK with this bandwidth?
>
> I assume that I will need 10 more Cals for SBS2003 so the new remote users
> can log into the network. I also assume that I will need to buy 25 TS Cals
> for all users on the terminal server. Will I need Cals for the basic
> server
> 2008?
>
> Thanks in advance for the help.
> Steve

Keep in mind that the covering of Server CALs is ONLY for R2. So far as I'm
aware, it was never extended to SBS 2003. Therefore, since the TS is in the
domain, it needs a server CAL for every user in the domain. It will not
require a TS CAL for them - only for those users who access the actual TS
functionality of the box. And SBS will need CALs for everyone, regardless,
of course.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in message
news: m...
> Charlie and Steve:
>
> I am with you on the size and resources of the new box, but not sure I
> understand the logic of the licenses.
>
> Does the SBS benefit of covering Server CALS for additional servers not
> apply to Server 2008x in an SBS 2003 network?
>
> Since there are 10 (or however many) new users connecting to the SBS
> domain, will it not require 10 (or however many) new SBS licenses (again
> assuming user CALs)
>
> And, yes on the 35 TS CALs if all 25 original users and 10 new users are
> going to use this app on the TS.
>
> -
> Larry
> Please post the resolution to your
> issue so others may benefit
> -
> Get Your SBS Health Check at
> www.sbsbpa.com
>
>
>> First question: Are you running Server 2k8 as a 32-bit or 64-bit
>> version? If 64-bit, I'd recommend going to 2k8 R2 directly, since
>> there are some enhancements in Terminal Services / Remote Desktop
>> Services in R2. But R2 is 64-bit only - no 32-bit version.
>>
>> It's difficult to spec a server without knowing the size and resource
>> requirements of the application itself. And it will also depend on
>> whether you're running the application as a RemoteApp, or running a
>> full desktop session.
>>
>> That being said, 10 concurrent TS RemoteApp users running 2-3 MS
>> Office applications on Server 2k8 R2 should do fine on a quad-core,
>> single CPU, server with 4-6GB of RAM. IOW, a pretty low end server
>> these days. I would expect even running full desktop sessions that
>> you'd be fine with that.
>>
>> Connectivity: If you're running full desktop sessions, I'd use Remote
>> Web Workplace (RWW) rather than VPN. If you're running RemoteApp
>> sessions, your options are a bit more limited in SBS 2003, but I'd
>> probably set the new server up to also do TS Gateway (RD Gateway in
>> R2). This would require forwarding 443 to the new server, or having it
>> sit at a separate public IP address. Or use a VPN, but that adds its
>> own overhead.
>>
>> Licenses: yes, you'll need 35 Server CALs for the new server. Plus 25
>> TS CALs (assuming Per User).
>>
>> "Steve Schwab" <> wrote in
>> message news:358412B0-AF58-4227-BA03-...
>>
>>> I have a SBS2003 network with 25 users. We have acquired a new
>>> company and
>>> want to allow about 10 remote users access to our mrp software. The
>>> software
>>> supports terminal services but all users (local and remote) must use
>>> terminal
>>> services if we switch to that.
>>> I understand that I can join a Server 2008 member server to SBS2003
>>> and
>>> use
>>> it as a terminal server. Since I haven't used terminal server before
>>> I
>>> have a
>>> couple questions:
>>> What kind of hardware is required for the terminal server? There will
>>> be about 25 users sharing the application but only about 10 max
>>> concurrently. Will that require a lot of horsepower?
>>>
>>> I have a Watchguard UTM with VPN capability. Should that be used to
>>> connect
>>> the remote user?
>>> If we use Comcast as ISP with 6 megs down and 2 megs up on both ends,
>>> will the remote user experience be OK with this bandwidth?
>>>
>>> I assume that I will need 10 more Cals for SBS2003 so the new remote
>>> users
>>> can log into the network. I also assume that I will need to buy 25 TS
>>> Cals
>>> for all users on the terminal server. Will I need Cals for the basic
>>> server
>>> 2008?
>>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>>> Steve
>
>

Thanks for the reply guys.
So, if I understand the license...
1. I need to add 10 cals for the remote users to the SBS2003 R2 server.
2. I need 25 cals for the Server 2008. 15 for the local TS users and 10 for
the remote TS users. Your discussion seems to indicate these would not be
necessary if I used Server 2003. Is there a compelling reason to use 2008?
3. I need 25 TS cals for all who will use the application.

I need to study up a bit to understand the difference between RemoteApp and
full desktop session. Will do some research on that to decide which approach
to take. Do either of you want to weigh in on that?

Thanks again.

"Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" wrote:

> Yeah, SBS 2003 R2. Been so long since R1 <g>
>
> Now I find this:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv.../prodinfo.mspx
>
> which says:
> Q. What are the expanded CAL rights in SBS 2003 R2?
>
> A. Customers running SBS 2003 R2 can use their CALs to access additional
> servers running Windows Server 2003, Exchange Server 2003 and SQL Server
> 2005 Workgroup Edition on the SBS 2003 R2 network. See the licensing questions
> section for additional information on SBS 2003 R2 CALs.
>
> so unless there is info that the expanded CAL rights were expanded to Server
> 2008, it would seem Server CALs are in order as well.
>
>
> -Larry
> Please post the resolution to your
> issue so others may benefit
> -
> Get Your SBS Health Check at
> www.sbsbpa.com
>
>
> > Keep in mind that the covering of Server CALs is ONLY for R2. So far
> > as I'm aware, it was never extended to SBS 2003. Therefore, since the
> > TS is in the domain, it needs a server CAL for every user in the
> > domain. It will not require a TS CAL for them - only for those users
> > who access the actual TS functionality of the box. And SBS will need
> > CALs for everyone, regardless, of course.
> >
> > "Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in
> > message news: m...
> >
> >> Charlie and Steve:
> >>
> >> I am with you on the size and resources of the new box, but not sure
> >> I understand the logic of the licenses.
> >>
> >> Does the SBS benefit of covering Server CALS for additional servers
> >> not apply to Server 2008x in an SBS 2003 network?
> >>
> >> Since there are 10 (or however many) new users connecting to the SBS
> >> domain, will it not require 10 (or however many) new SBS licenses
> >> (again assuming user CALs)
> >>
> >> And, yes on the 35 TS CALs if all 25 original users and 10 new users
> >> are going to use this app on the TS.
> >>
> >> -
> >> Larry
> >> Please post the resolution to your
> >> issue so others may benefit
> >> -
> >> Get Your SBS Health Check at
> >> www.sbsbpa.com
> >>> First question: Are you running Server 2k8 as a 32-bit or 64-bit
> >>> version? If 64-bit, I'd recommend going to 2k8 R2 directly, since
> >>> there are some enhancements in Terminal Services / Remote Desktop
> >>> Services in R2. But R2 is 64-bit only - no 32-bit version.
> >>>
> >>> It's difficult to spec a server without knowing the size and
> >>> resource requirements of the application itself. And it will also
> >>> depend on whether you're running the application as a RemoteApp, or
> >>> running a full desktop session.
> >>>
> >>> That being said, 10 concurrent TS RemoteApp users running 2-3 MS
> >>> Office applications on Server 2k8 R2 should do fine on a quad-core,
> >>> single CPU, server with 4-6GB of RAM. IOW, a pretty low end server
> >>> these days. I would expect even running full desktop sessions that
> >>> you'd be fine with that.
> >>>
> >>> Connectivity: If you're running full desktop sessions, I'd use
> >>> Remote Web Workplace (RWW) rather than VPN. If you're running
> >>> RemoteApp sessions, your options are a bit more limited in SBS 2003,
> >>> but I'd probably set the new server up to also do TS Gateway (RD
> >>> Gateway in R2). This would require forwarding 443 to the new server,
> >>> or having it sit at a separate public IP address. Or use a VPN, but
> >>> that adds its own overhead.
> >>>
> >>> Licenses: yes, you'll need 35 Server CALs for the new server. Plus
> >>> 25 TS CALs (assuming Per User).
> >>>
> >>> "Steve Schwab" <> wrote in
> >>> message news:358412B0-AF58-4227-BA03-...
> >>>
> >>>> I have a SBS2003 network with 25 users. We have acquired a new
> >>>> company and
> >>>> want to allow about 10 remote users access to our mrp software. The
> >>>> software
> >>>> supports terminal services but all users (local and remote) must
> >>>> use
> >>>> terminal
> >>>> services if we switch to that.
> >>>> I understand that I can join a Server 2008 member server to SBS2003
> >>>> and
> >>>> use
> >>>> it as a terminal server. Since I haven't used terminal server
> >>>> before
> >>>> I
> >>>> have a
> >>>> couple questions:
> >>>> What kind of hardware is required for the terminal server? There
> >>>> will
> >>>> be about 25 users sharing the application but only about 10 max
> >>>> concurrently. Will that require a lot of horsepower?
> >>>> I have a Watchguard UTM with VPN capability. Should that be used to
> >>>> connect
> >>>> the remote user?
> >>>> If we use Comcast as ISP with 6 megs down and 2 megs up on both
> >>>> ends,
> >>>> will the remote user experience be OK with this bandwidth?
> >>>> I assume that I will need 10 more Cals for SBS2003 so the new
> >>>> remote
> >>>> users
> >>>> can log into the network. I also assume that I will need to buy 25
> >>>> TS
> >>>> Cals
> >>>> for all users on the terminal server. Will I need Cals for the
> >>>> basic
> >>>> server
> >>>> 2008?
> >>>> Thanks in advance for the help.
> >>>> Steve
>
>
> .
>

No, you need 35 server CALs for the second server. (every user in the domain
needs a CAL in this scenario for the server.)

Yes, there are a host of compelling reasons to use Server 2008 or even
Server 2008 R2. Including the availability of RemoteApps.

TS RemoteApps (simply RemoteApps in Server 2008 R2), is the single biggest
reason to go to Server 2008. And that's a server upgrade that has a LOT of
good reasons to make the move. But none more compelling IMHO than
RemoteApps. Once you use it, you'll never go back.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/russel




"Steve Schwab" <> wrote in message
news:C65AE8C6-FE66-45A3-BD0C-...
> Thanks for the reply guys.
> So, if I understand the license...
> 1. I need to add 10 cals for the remote users to the SBS2003 R2 server.
> 2. I need 25 cals for the Server 2008. 15 for the local TS users and 10
> for
> the remote TS users. Your discussion seems to indicate these would not be
> necessary if I used Server 2003. Is there a compelling reason to use 2008?
> 3. I need 25 TS cals for all who will use the application.
>
> I need to study up a bit to understand the difference between RemoteApp
> and
> full desktop session. Will do some research on that to decide which
> approach
> to take. Do either of you want to weigh in on that?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> "Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Yeah, SBS 2003 R2. Been so long since R1 <g>
>>
>> Now I find this:
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv.../prodinfo.mspx
>>
>> which says:
>> Q. What are the expanded CAL rights in SBS 2003 R2?
>>
>> A. Customers running SBS 2003 R2 can use their CALs to access additional
>> servers running Windows Server 2003, Exchange Server 2003 and SQL Server
>> 2005 Workgroup Edition on the SBS 2003 R2 network. See the licensing
>> questions
>> section for additional information on SBS 2003 R2 CALs.
>>
>> so unless there is info that the expanded CAL rights were expanded to
>> Server
>> 2008, it would seem Server CALs are in order as well.
>>
>>
>> -Larry
>> Please post the resolution to your
>> issue so others may benefit
>> -
>> Get Your SBS Health Check at
>> www.sbsbpa.com
>>
>>
>> > Keep in mind that the covering of Server CALs is ONLY for R2. So far
>> > as I'm aware, it was never extended to SBS 2003. Therefore, since the
>> > TS is in the domain, it needs a server CAL for every user in the
>> > domain. It will not require a TS CAL for them - only for those users
>> > who access the actual TS functionality of the box. And SBS will need
>> > CALs for everyone, regardless, of course.
>> >
>> > "Larry Struckmeyer[SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in
>> > message news: m...
>> >
>> >> Charlie and Steve:
>> >>
>> >> I am with you on the size and resources of the new box, but not sure
>> >> I understand the logic of the licenses.
>> >>
>> >> Does the SBS benefit of covering Server CALS for additional servers
>> >> not apply to Server 2008x in an SBS 2003 network?
>> >>
>> >> Since there are 10 (or however many) new users connecting to the SBS
>> >> domain, will it not require 10 (or however many) new SBS licenses
>> >> (again assuming user CALs)
>> >>
>> >> And, yes on the 35 TS CALs if all 25 original users and 10 new users
>> >> are going to use this app on the TS.
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Larry
>> >> Please post the resolution to your
>> >> issue so others may benefit
>> >> -
>> >> Get Your SBS Health Check at
>> >> www.sbsbpa.com
>> >>> First question: Are you running Server 2k8 as a 32-bit or 64-bit
>> >>> version? If 64-bit, I'd recommend going to 2k8 R2 directly, since
>> >>> there are some enhancements in Terminal Services / Remote Desktop
>> >>> Services in R2. But R2 is 64-bit only - no 32-bit version.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's difficult to spec a server without knowing the size and
>> >>> resource requirements of the application itself. And it will also
>> >>> depend on whether you're running the application as a RemoteApp, or
>> >>> running a full desktop session.
>> >>>
>> >>> That being said, 10 concurrent TS RemoteApp users running 2-3 MS
>> >>> Office applications on Server 2k8 R2 should do fine on a quad-core,
>> >>> single CPU, server with 4-6GB of RAM. IOW, a pretty low end server
>> >>> these days. I would expect even running full desktop sessions that
>> >>> you'd be fine with that.
>> >>>
>> >>> Connectivity: If you're running full desktop sessions, I'd use
>> >>> Remote Web Workplace (RWW) rather than VPN. If you're running
>> >>> RemoteApp sessions, your options are a bit more limited in SBS 2003,
>> >>> but I'd probably set the new server up to also do TS Gateway (RD
>> >>> Gateway in R2). This would require forwarding 443 to the new server,
>> >>> or having it sit at a separate public IP address. Or use a VPN, but
>> >>> that adds its own overhead.
>> >>>
>> >>> Licenses: yes, you'll need 35 Server CALs for the new server. Plus
>> >>> 25 TS CALs (assuming Per User).
>> >>>
>> >>> "Steve Schwab" <> wrote in
>> >>> message news:358412B0-AF58-4227-BA03-...
>> >>>
>> >>>> I have a SBS2003 network with 25 users. We have acquired a new
>> >>>> company and
>> >>>> want to allow about 10 remote users access to our mrp software. The
>> >>>> software
>> >>>> supports terminal services but all users (local and remote) must
>> >>>> use
>> >>>> terminal
>> >>>> services if we switch to that.
>> >>>> I understand that I can join a Server 2008 member server to SBS2003
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> use
>> >>>> it as a terminal server. Since I haven't used terminal server
>> >>>> before
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> have a
>> >>>> couple questions:
>> >>>> What kind of hardware is required for the terminal server? There
>> >>>> will
>> >>>> be about 25 users sharing the application but only about 10 max
>> >>>> concurrently. Will that require a lot of horsepower?
>> >>>> I have a Watchguard UTM with VPN capability. Should that be used to
>> >>>> connect
>> >>>> the remote user?
>> >>>> If we use Comcast as ISP with 6 megs down and 2 megs up on both
>> >>>> ends,
>> >>>> will the remote user experience be OK with this bandwidth?
>> >>>> I assume that I will need 10 more Cals for SBS2003 so the new
>> >>>> remote
>> >>>> users
>> >>>> can log into the network. I also assume that I will need to buy 25
>> >>>> TS
>> >>>> Cals
>> >>>> for all users on the terminal server. Will I need Cals for the
>> >>>> basic
>> >>>> server
>> >>>> 2008?
>> >>>> Thanks in advance for the help.
>> >>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> .
>>