Server Specs

Seemed to be hear a lot lately. Thank you everyone!

In a previous thread of mine "priv1.edb maximum size", I explain that I have
a customer who's exchange has maxed. I now have the go ahead to build a new
server.
Their current is a Dell PowerEdge 2800 SBS Standard
Two - 2.8GHz single core processors
4GB RAM
3 - 136GB SCSI Drives in RAID 5
12GB C: OS Partition
272GB Drive D:
This is a machine shop manufacturing company with 15 users. Some of the CNC
machines pull data from the server.

Question
Based on the info provided does it appear that the new server should have
Dual Processors or is that overkill?

Here is what was quoted 9 months ago; (but I am second guessing myself)
Intel Server with Server Board S5500BC (Dual CPU board)
2 - Intel E5520 2.26GHZ CPU's
8GB RAM
3 - 1TB WD SATA Drives in RAID 5 (Partitions: 100GB, 400GB, 1.3TB)
SBS 08 Standard

Your thoughts? I don't want to kill them with cost so I really want to know
at what point should a company be using Dual processors? Now with
multi-core is it necessary?

On 2/25/2010 6:23 AM, Tim H wrote:
> Seemed to be hear a lot lately. Thank you everyone!
>
> In a previous thread of mine "priv1.edb maximum size", I explain that I have
> a customer who's exchange has maxed. I now have the go ahead to build a new
> server.
> Their current is a Dell PowerEdge 2800 SBS Standard
> Two - 2.8GHz single core processors
> 4GB RAM
> 3 - 136GB SCSI Drives in RAID 5
> 12GB C: OS Partition
> 272GB Drive D:
> This is a machine shop manufacturing company with 15 users. Some of the CNC
> machines pull data from the server.
>
> Question
> Based on the info provided does it appear that the new server should have
> Dual Processors or is that overkill?
>
> Here is what was quoted 9 months ago; (but I am second guessing myself)
> Intel Server with Server Board S5500BC (Dual CPU board)
> 2 - Intel E5520 2.26GHZ CPU's
> 8GB RAM
> 3 - 1TB WD SATA Drives in RAID 5 (Partitions: 100GB, 400GB, 1.3TB)
> SBS 08 Standard
>
> Your thoughts? I don't want to kill them with cost so I really want to know
> at what point should a company be using Dual processors? Now with
> multi-core is it necessary?
>
>
My contrarian opinion - I prefer to buy an older enterprise box for the
price of a RAID card. I'd buy a PowerEdge 2800 for a new deployment
today. In fact, I did just that a couple of weeks ago with a HP DL380,
8GB RAM, and (6) 146GB 15K RPM drives for $500 or so. The servers are
not really CPU-limited under SBS workload conditions.

That PowerEdge box would handle SBS 2008 without difficulty as those
Xeons are 64-bit. Bump up the RAM to say 8GB and add some storage. I'd
go with (2) 146GB drives for system volume in RAID 1, and a RAID 10
volume of (4) 300GB drives (this will survive a drive failure with zero
performance loss). The performance will be crazy-fast as long as you
enable write-back cache.

I never run RAID 5 on system volume. Being that I am in data recovery
business, I make a lot of money fixing RAID 5.

You may find it cheaper to buy another identical used box with this
config than to upgrade it by parts. A spare server never hurt anyone.

Please don't run RAID5 in an environment where people don't pay
attention to drive failure alarms. Such people usually get to meet me
with a sad story and eternal hope that their controller saved them by
shutting off the drive before it really died.

There are white papers available for high availability configuration of
Exchange. They key to remember is that transaction logs go onto separate
a array from the database array.

You can also throw in a couple of large SATA drives into that server for
less frequently accessed files in case 600GB of space is insufficient.
Software mirror them. Always a good place to store backups and such in
addition to the offsite ones.

My solution would cost your client about $500 or so in parts. A new
server will cost significantly more. The choice is yours to make. I'd
rather get paid that cash to me than to Dell or HP.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Crashproof Solutions
510-282-1008
Twitter: @wiseleo
http://crashproofsolutions.com
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

Thanks! It is nice to hear different takes.
I do know that I won't be buying a Dell or HP because I prefer to build my
own servers. You are right, having a spare is a good idea which is why I
recommended to them that we get a new box. I don't deal in or recommend
used hardware because 50% of my business is in system building so I have a
good idea of average life expectancy. I like your comment on the RAID 1 and
10 although I don't have much experience in that config.



"Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert"
< > wrote in message
news:%...
> On 2/25/2010 6:23 AM, Tim H wrote:
>> Seemed to be hear a lot lately. Thank you everyone!
>>
>> In a previous thread of mine "priv1.edb maximum size", I explain that I
>> have
>> a customer who's exchange has maxed. I now have the go ahead to build a
>> new
>> server.
>> Their current is a Dell PowerEdge 2800 SBS Standard
>> Two - 2.8GHz single core processors
>> 4GB RAM
>> 3 - 136GB SCSI Drives in RAID 5
>> 12GB C: OS Partition
>> 272GB Drive D:
>> This is a machine shop manufacturing company with 15 users. Some of the
>> CNC
>> machines pull data from the server.
>>
>> Question
>> Based on the info provided does it appear that the new server should have
>> Dual Processors or is that overkill?
>>
>> Here is what was quoted 9 months ago; (but I am second guessing myself)
>> Intel Server with Server Board S5500BC (Dual CPU board)
>> 2 - Intel E5520 2.26GHZ CPU's
>> 8GB RAM
>> 3 - 1TB WD SATA Drives in RAID 5 (Partitions: 100GB, 400GB, 1.3TB)
>> SBS 08 Standard
>>
>> Your thoughts? I don't want to kill them with cost so I really want to
>> know
>> at what point should a company be using Dual processors? Now with
>> multi-core is it necessary?
>>
>>
> My contrarian opinion - I prefer to buy an older enterprise box for the
> price of a RAID card. I'd buy a PowerEdge 2800 for a new deployment today.
> In fact, I did just that a couple of weeks ago with a HP DL380, 8GB RAM,
> and (6) 146GB 15K RPM drives for $500 or so. The servers are not really
> CPU-limited under SBS workload conditions.
>
> That PowerEdge box would handle SBS 2008 without difficulty as those Xeons
> are 64-bit. Bump up the RAM to say 8GB and add some storage. I'd go with
> (2) 146GB drives for system volume in RAID 1, and a RAID 10 volume of (4)
> 300GB drives (this will survive a drive failure with zero performance
> loss). The performance will be crazy-fast as long as you enable write-back
> cache.
>
> I never run RAID 5 on system volume. Being that I am in data recovery
> business, I make a lot of money fixing RAID 5.
>
> You may find it cheaper to buy another identical used box with this config
> than to upgrade it by parts. A spare server never hurt anyone.
>
> Please don't run RAID5 in an environment where people don't pay attention
> to drive failure alarms. Such people usually get to meet me with a sad
> story and eternal hope that their controller saved them by shutting off
> the drive before it really died.
>
> There are white papers available for high availability configuration of
> Exchange. They key to remember is that transaction logs go onto separate a
> array from the database array.
>
> You can also throw in a couple of large SATA drives into that server for
> less frequently accessed files in case 600GB of space is insufficient.
> Software mirror them. Always a good place to store backups and such in
> addition to the offsite ones.
>
> My solution would cost your client about $500 or so in parts. A new server
> will cost significantly more. The choice is yours to make. I'd rather get
> paid that cash to me than to Dell or HP.
> --
> Leonid S. Knyshov
> Crashproof Solutions
> 510-282-1008
> Twitter: @wiseleo
> http://crashproofsolutions.com
> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
> Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

On 2/25/2010 7:12 AM, Tim H wrote:
> Thanks! It is nice to hear different takes.
> I do know that I won't be buying a Dell or HP because I prefer to build my
> own servers. You are right, having a spare is a good idea which is why I
> recommended to them that we get a new box. I don't deal in or recommend
> used hardware because 50% of my business is in system building so I have a
> good idea of average life expectancy. I like your comment on the RAID 1 and
> 10 although I don't have much experience in that config.
>
I just love being able to buy a fully loaded box for the price of RAM or
RAID card.

The choice is yours to make. I stopped building systems a while ago as
it's easier to simply go on eBay and pickup a few units complete with
licenses for pretty much the cost of a license. My end users don't need
much power. I'd upgrade that 2800 and save a lot of money. Drives fail.
They are cheap to replace and users usually don't even notice when RAID
is setup properly. Not much else fails on something that's been alive
for a few years. I prefer an older enterprise box to a cheaper small
business box.

Let me know when you are junking that 2800 so I can pay you to ship that
useless pile of metal over here.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Crashproof Solutions
510-282-1008
Twitter: @wiseleo
http://crashproofsolutions.com
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

Guys?
When the MB fails on either that Old system
or a Home Built.
How many days are you down before you can get a replacement MB?
Unless you Keep Extra parts in your shop for this, I don't think it's a good
idea.

example with Dell server it comes with Next Business Day they will BRING out
and install one.
or you can get 4hr response.

A home Built May not have NEXT business day. (Intel says 1-2 days after
troubleshooting.)
and a OLD system means you have to shop on eBay or where ever and find a MB.
Power Supply etc.

If downtime is critical to the customer, I don't personally like this
solution.

Calculate 1 days salary for every one in the business.
My Guess is it's more than the cost difference of a new server with a
warranty?
Remember time=money

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
SBS2003 SBS2008 Support - www.SBITS.Biz
Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
Free Trial Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com


"Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert"
< > wrote in message
news:...
> On 2/25/2010 7:12 AM, Tim H wrote:
>> Thanks! It is nice to hear different takes.
>> I do know that I won't be buying a Dell or HP because I prefer to build
>> my
>> own servers. You are right, having a spare is a good idea which is why I
>> recommended to them that we get a new box. I don't deal in or recommend
>> used hardware because 50% of my business is in system building so I have
>> a
>> good idea of average life expectancy. I like your comment on the RAID 1
>> and
>> 10 although I don't have much experience in that config.
>>
> I just love being able to buy a fully loaded box for the price of RAM or
> RAID card.
>
> The choice is yours to make. I stopped building systems a while ago as
> it's easier to simply go on eBay and pickup a few units complete with
> licenses for pretty much the cost of a license. My end users don't need
> much power. I'd upgrade that 2800 and save a lot of money. Drives fail.
> They are cheap to replace and users usually don't even notice when RAID is
> setup properly. Not much else fails on something that's been alive for a
> few years. I prefer an older enterprise box to a cheaper small business
> box.
>
> Let me know when you are junking that 2800 so I can pay you to ship that
> useless pile of metal over here.
> --
> Leonid S. Knyshov
> Crashproof Solutions
> 510-282-1008
> Twitter: @wiseleo
> http://crashproofsolutions.com
> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
> Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

On 2/25/2010 9:54 AM, Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] wrote:
> Guys?
> When the MB fails on either that Old system
> or a Home Built.
> How many days are you down before you can get a replacement MB?
> Unless you Keep Extra parts in your shop for this, I don't think it's a
> good idea.
>
> example with Dell server it comes with Next Business Day they will BRING
> out and install one.
> or you can get 4hr response.
>
> A home Built May not have NEXT business day. (Intel says 1-2 days after
> troubleshooting.)
> and a OLD system means you have to shop on eBay or where ever and find a
> MB. Power Supply etc.
>
> If downtime is critical to the customer, I don't personally like this
> solution.
>
> Calculate 1 days salary for every one in the business.
> My Guess is it's more than the cost difference of a new server with a
> warranty?
> Remember time=money
>
> Russ
>
I have extra hardware for that reason. I'd rather spend $1000 and have
two boxes and a fully populated array with 15K RPM drives than $3000 and
have one box with two drives.

Modern hardware is simply overkill in SBS setting.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Crashproof Solutions
510-282-1008
Twitter: @wiseleo
http://crashproofsolutions.com
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

So you use Used hardware for all your clients?
Interesting....
Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
SBS2003 SBS2008 Support - www.SBITS.Biz
Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
Free Trial Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com


"Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert"
< > wrote in message
news:...
> On 2/25/2010 9:54 AM, Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] wrote:
>> Guys?
>> When the MB fails on either that Old system
>> or a Home Built.
>> How many days are you down before you can get a replacement MB?
>> Unless you Keep Extra parts in your shop for this, I don't think it's a
>> good idea.
>>
>> example with Dell server it comes with Next Business Day they will BRING
>> out and install one.
>> or you can get 4hr response.
>>
>> A home Built May not have NEXT business day. (Intel says 1-2 days after
>> troubleshooting.)
>> and a OLD system means you have to shop on eBay or where ever and find a
>> MB. Power Supply etc.
>>
>> If downtime is critical to the customer, I don't personally like this
>> solution.
>>
>> Calculate 1 days salary for every one in the business.
>> My Guess is it's more than the cost difference of a new server with a
>> warranty?
>> Remember time=money
>>
>> Russ
>>
> I have extra hardware for that reason. I'd rather spend $1000 and have two
> boxes and a fully populated array with 15K RPM drives than $3000 and have
> one box with two drives.
>
> Modern hardware is simply overkill in SBS setting.
> --
> Leonid S. Knyshov
> Crashproof Solutions
> 510-282-1008
> Twitter: @wiseleo
> http://crashproofsolutions.com
> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
> Please vote "helpful" if I helped you

I have actually considered starting to buy an extra board with every server
build just to have in case of disaster. Bill the client and tell them I
could have them backup in 2 hours. Heck the boards are only 200-400 anyway.
Some pay more a month on contracts.


"Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:0BDD8B63-87D0-409C-9D52-...
> Guys?
> When the MB fails on either that Old system
> or a Home Built.
> How many days are you down before you can get a replacement MB?
> Unless you Keep Extra parts in your shop for this, I don't think it's a
> good idea.
>
> example with Dell server it comes with Next Business Day they will BRING
> out and install one.
> or you can get 4hr response.
>
> A home Built May not have NEXT business day. (Intel says 1-2 days after
> troubleshooting.)
> and a OLD system means you have to shop on eBay or where ever and find a
> MB. Power Supply etc.
>
> If downtime is critical to the customer, I don't personally like this
> solution.
>
> Calculate 1 days salary for every one in the business.
> My Guess is it's more than the cost difference of a new server with a
> warranty?
> Remember time=money
>
> Russ
>
> --
> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
> SBS2003 SBS2008 Support - www.SBITS.Biz
> Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
> Free Trial Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com
>
>
> "Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert"
> < > wrote in message
> news:...
>> On 2/25/2010 7:12 AM, Tim H wrote:
>>> Thanks! It is nice to hear different takes.
>>> I do know that I won't be buying a Dell or HP because I prefer to build
>>> my
>>> own servers. You are right, having a spare is a good idea which is why
>>> I
>>> recommended to them that we get a new box. I don't deal in or recommend
>>> used hardware because 50% of my business is in system building so I have
>>> a
>>> good idea of average life expectancy. I like your comment on the RAID 1
>>> and
>>> 10 although I don't have much experience in that config.
>>>
>> I just love being able to buy a fully loaded box for the price of RAM or
>> RAID card.
>>
>> The choice is yours to make. I stopped building systems a while ago as
>> it's easier to simply go on eBay and pickup a few units complete with
>> licenses for pretty much the cost of a license. My end users don't need
>> much power. I'd upgrade that 2800 and save a lot of money. Drives fail.
>> They are cheap to replace and users usually don't even notice when RAID
>> is setup properly. Not much else fails on something that's been alive for
>> a few years. I prefer an older enterprise box to a cheaper small business
>> box.
>>
>> Let me know when you are junking that 2800 so I can pay you to ship that
>> useless pile of metal over here.
>> --
>> Leonid S. Knyshov
>> Crashproof Solutions
>> 510-282-1008
>> Twitter: @wiseleo
>> http://crashproofsolutions.com
>> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
>> Please vote "helpful" if I helped you
>

I know we differ on things
However I would not recommend a guarantee of Back up in 2hrs
If just 1 thing goes wrong, which often does not to your fault
the client blames you!
Not the router/ISP/ etc

Russ

--
Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
SBS2003 SBS2008 Support - www.SBITS.Biz
Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
Free Trial Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com


"Tim H" <> wrote in message
news:...
> I have actually considered starting to buy an extra board with every
> server build just to have in case of disaster. Bill the client and tell
> them I could have them backup in 2 hours. Heck the boards are only
> 200-400 anyway. Some pay more a month on contracts.
>
>
> "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:0BDD8B63-87D0-409C-9D52-...
>> Guys?
>> When the MB fails on either that Old system
>> or a Home Built.
>> How many days are you down before you can get a replacement MB?
>> Unless you Keep Extra parts in your shop for this, I don't think it's a
>> good idea.
>>
>> example with Dell server it comes with Next Business Day they will BRING
>> out and install one.
>> or you can get 4hr response.
>>
>> A home Built May not have NEXT business day. (Intel says 1-2 days after
>> troubleshooting.)
>> and a OLD system means you have to shop on eBay or where ever and find a
>> MB. Power Supply etc.
>>
>> If downtime is critical to the customer, I don't personally like this
>> solution.
>>
>> Calculate 1 days salary for every one in the business.
>> My Guess is it's more than the cost difference of a new server with a
>> warranty?
>> Remember time=money
>>
>> Russ
>>
>> --
>> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
>> MCP, MCPS, MCNPS, SBSC
>> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
>> SBS2003 SBS2008 Support - www.SBITS.Biz
>> Question or Second Opinion - www.PersonalITConsultant.com
>> Free Trial Microsoft Online Services - www.Microsoft-Online-Services.com
>>
>>
>> "Leonid S. Knyshov // SBS Expert"
>> < > wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On 2/25/2010 7:12 AM, Tim H wrote:
>>>> Thanks! It is nice to hear different takes.
>>>> I do know that I won't be buying a Dell or HP because I prefer to build
>>>> my
>>>> own servers. You are right, having a spare is a good idea which is why
>>>> I
>>>> recommended to them that we get a new box. I don't deal in or
>>>> recommend
>>>> used hardware because 50% of my business is in system building so I
>>>> have a
>>>> good idea of average life expectancy. I like your comment on the RAID
>>>> 1 and
>>>> 10 although I don't have much experience in that config.
>>>>
>>> I just love being able to buy a fully loaded box for the price of RAM or
>>> RAID card.
>>>
>>> The choice is yours to make. I stopped building systems a while ago as
>>> it's easier to simply go on eBay and pickup a few units complete with
>>> licenses for pretty much the cost of a license. My end users don't need
>>> much power. I'd upgrade that 2800 and save a lot of money. Drives fail.
>>> They are cheap to replace and users usually don't even notice when RAID
>>> is setup properly. Not much else fails on something that's been alive
>>> for a few years. I prefer an older enterprise box to a cheaper small
>>> business box.
>>>
>>> Let me know when you are junking that 2800 so I can pay you to ship that
>>> useless pile of metal over here.
>>> --
>>> Leonid S. Knyshov
>>> Crashproof Solutions
>>> 510-282-1008
>>> Twitter: @wiseleo
>>> http://crashproofsolutions.com
>>> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
>>> Please vote "helpful" if I helped you
>>
>
>