Special folders in Vista worse than in XP!

Hi.

One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.

Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
should be trivial, but obviously isn't.

And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!

This is actually the only big problem I have with Vista (except for
the nag of UAC which I have removed), so I guess life isn't so
bad..

Okay, I'm done....

//ceed

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:37:13 -0700, ceed <>
wrote:

>Hi.
>
>One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
>but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
>of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
>gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
>special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
>moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
>what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
>causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.
>
>Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
>do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
>without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
>should be trivial, but obviously isn't.
>
>And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
>it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
>folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
>it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
>persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
>freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
>paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!
>
>This is actually the only big problem I have with Vista (except for
>the nag of UAC which I have removed), so I guess life isn't so
>bad..
>
>Okay, I'm done....

Trust me, I understand your frustration. My advice, don't use any of
the special folders. I haven't for years. Instead move ALL your data
off your root drive setting up whatever folder arrangement you like on
some other PHYSICAL drive or drives. This is a far superior method.

I really can't believe my eyes in this message. First, if you copy and
paste, you paste the file and its content. That means the folder stays the
same and the original stay where it was, that is what copy means.. If you
drag and drop the file you are taking it from where it was to another place.
The original has moved.

Ok but if you move a collection of files they cannot have the one icon, so
they become a plain folder.

If you keep moving things XP and Vista have to leave the original icon
behind.

It has always been plain sailng.





--
Ian

"ceed" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Hi.
>
> One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
> but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
> of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
> gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
> special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
> moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
> what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
> causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.
>
> Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
> do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
> without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
> should be trivial, but obviously isn't.
>
> And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
> it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
> folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
> it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
> persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
> freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
> paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!
>
> This is actually the only big problem I have with Vista (except for
> the nag of UAC which I have removed), so I guess life isn't so
> bad..
>
> Okay, I'm done....
>
> //ceed
>
>

If you Drag and Drop on the same drive, the default action is Move. If you
Drag and Drop from one Drive to another, the default action is Copy. Using
right-click dragging will give you a choice. Cut and Paste is another
option to Move a folder or file, in which case the drive destination doesn't
matter.

"ceed" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Hi.
>
> One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
> but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
> of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
> gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
> special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
> moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
> what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
> causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.
>
> Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
> do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
> without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
> should be trivial, but obviously isn't.
>
> And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
> it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
> folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
> it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
> persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
> freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
> paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!
>
> This is actually the only big problem I have with Vista (except for
> the nag of UAC which I have removed), so I guess life isn't so
> bad..
>
> Okay, I'm done....
>
> //ceed
>

On Jul 27, 10:00 am, "Ian Betts" <igb...@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
> It has always been plain sailing.
>
> --
> Ian
>
No, it has not bee plain sailing at all, not on Win 95, not on 98, on
ME, 2000, XP and now Vista. I have used them all and "smooth sailing"
is not the word I would use. I mean, MS themselves in their own
Windows XP tweaking powertoy "TweakUI" has options for restoring these
folders and their icons. That's not because it has been smooth
sailing!

I recently moved tons of files from an external drive into a couple of
the special folders in Vista. After that the icons changed to generic
ones. I had to move all the files out again and recreate the special
folders using some cryptic formula I had to enter in the search field.

In my job we are required to have our documents on an encrypted drive
which gets hooked up to the computer when needed. I{n XP we had "My
Documents" set to a location on this external drive and it mostly
worked even when the drive was not connected. In Vista it doesn't work
at all. If you set your "Documents" folder to a location that doesn't
exist at boot the special folder disappears. All of this works fine
with special folders in OS X and in KDE and Gnome on Linux which we
also use in addition to Vista.

Since there's an option to move the locating of the special folders
the files should be moved and not copied when you change location.
Honestly, I have no clue what you are talking about. I hope you do!

One of the reasons I do not like about OS related forums and usegroups
is that there are people who won't accept that their OS has problems,
and that's what has made MS so dominant in the first place: People
accept all the crap and even deny it exists. On top of that they pay
for the next version it! I do it myself, but I know that I am partly
buying crap and try to do something about it when I can.

Frankly, Vista is the best crap I have ever used! But the special
folders do NOT work. Period!

//c

On Jul 27, 10:06 am, "dean-dean" <dean-d...@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:
> If you Drag and Drop on the same drive, the default action is Move. If you
> Drag and Drop from one Drive to another, the default action is Copy. Using
> right-click dragging will give you a choice. Cut and Paste is another
> option to Move a folder or file, in which case the drive destination doesn't
> matter.
>
I may not have been clear on this: I am not talking about general
copying and moving of files, but rather the option you get when you
choose a new location for the contents of the special folder. It's one
of the tabs in the special folders properties. Do not experiment with
this or you will be in trouble also!

When either applying changes or saving you are given an option to move
your files from the old location to the new in the same operation. I
know how to copy and move between folders, partitions and drives in
general.

Thanks!

Then all I can say is why use windows if you find it useless. I have just
sent a file called clock37 to my inserted memory pen, it arrived complete
with icon as it was on Vista. I then copied the same file and pasted it to
the pen. Vista pop up and asked me if I wanted to copy and replace or place
a second. Now I have a second complete icon with a 2. Then I selected a
whole bunch of files and sent them to the pen. They each had intact icons.

This happen the same on XP.

If this is not what you are doing then change systems.



--
Ian

"ceed" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> On Jul 27, 10:00 am, "Ian Betts" <igb...@talktalk.net> wrote:
>>
>> It has always been plain sailing.
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
> No, it has not bee plain sailing at all, not on Win 95, not on 98, on
> ME, 2000, XP and now Vista. I have used them all and "smooth sailing"
> is not the word I would use. I mean, MS themselves in their own
> Windows XP tweaking powertoy "TweakUI" has options for restoring these
> folders and their icons. That's not because it has been smooth
> sailing!
>
> I recently moved tons of files from an external drive into a couple of
> the special folders in Vista. After that the icons changed to generic
> ones. I had to move all the files out again and recreate the special
> folders using some cryptic formula I had to enter in the search field.
>
> In my job we are required to have our documents on an encrypted drive
> which gets hooked up to the computer when needed. I{n XP we had "My
> Documents" set to a location on this external drive and it mostly
> worked even when the drive was not connected. In Vista it doesn't work
> at all. If you set your "Documents" folder to a location that doesn't
> exist at boot the special folder disappears. All of this works fine
> with special folders in OS X and in KDE and Gnome on Linux which we
> also use in addition to Vista.
>
> Since there's an option to move the locating of the special folders
> the files should be moved and not copied when you change location.
> Honestly, I have no clue what you are talking about. I hope you do!
>
> One of the reasons I do not like about OS related forums and usegroups
> is that there are people who won't accept that their OS has problems,
> and that's what has made MS so dominant in the first place: People
> accept all the crap and even deny it exists. On top of that they pay
> for the next version it! I do it myself, but I know that I am partly
> buying crap and try to do something about it when I can.
>
> Frankly, Vista is the best crap I have ever used! But the special
> folders do NOT work. Period!
>
> //c
>
>

On Jul 27, 11:21 am, "Ian Betts" <igb...@talktalk.net> wrote:
> Then all I can say is why use windows if you find it useless. I have just
> sent a file called clock37 to my inserted memory pen, it arrived complete
> with icon as it was on Vista. I then copied the same file and pasted it to
> the pen. Vista pop up and asked me if I wanted to copy and replace or place
> a second. Now I have a second complete icon with a 2. Then I selected a
> whole bunch of files and sent them to the pen. They each had intact icons.
>
> This happen the same on XP.
>
> If this is not what you are doing then change systems.
>
What I am doing is changing the default location for the special
folders. Right click on one of them, choose "Properties" then choose
"Location". Then you will be able to move the physical location of the
special folder somewhere else on your drive, or to an external drive.

This is not about moving files around! It's about moving the default
location for the files that show up in your special folders. The
special folders in Windows are kind of virtual: They reside in your
user directory, that's were you access them, but the files doesn't
have to be there. They can be wherever you set them to be in the
properties of the special folder. It's this part that doesn't work
right, and never has.

I thought this was old news since it's been (not working) in Windows
since...errrm...a long time ago?

The first poster who responded in this thread immediately understood.
I guess those of you who do not have to mess a lot with files and need
to be concerned about where they are located do not have this problem.

//ceed

Interesting problem. Let me be sure I understand it and expolre what may be
happening.
Let's use the special folder Documents found in Users\MyUser\Documents
Now let's say I have a USB drive X:\ attached and I want to MOVE that folder
to that drive.
If I go through the Properties of Documents I get the option to move the
folder (Location tab).

A NB: This special folder is needed by the OS for many purposes, I assume.
So if I move it off the current HD then the OS may have a problem unless it
knows I will reconnect this other drive religiously.

You're saying the original 'special' folder C:\Users\MyUser\Documents is
still in place (but no longer showing 'special' characteristics) after the
move and there is a new X:\Users\MyUser\Documents on the removable drive.
And that both folders contain the files but the 'special' nature of the
C:\Users\MyUser\Documents has disappeared? Has the 'special nature been
transferred to the new folder location on the X drive?


"ceed" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Hi.
>
> One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
> but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
> of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
> gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
> special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
> moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
> what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
> causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.
>
> Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
> do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
> without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
> should be trivial, but obviously isn't.
>
> And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
> it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
> folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
> it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
> persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
> freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
> paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!
>
> This is actually the only big problem I have with Vista (except for
> the nag of UAC which I have removed), so I guess life isn't so
> bad..
>
> Okay, I'm done....
>
> //ceed
>

ceed wrote:

> Hi.
>
> One thing I was sure of was that MS would fix the special folder mess,
> but no. It's worse that in XP. If you move a lot of files in and out
> of the special folders like "Music" and "Documents" the special icons
> gets lost and replaced by generic ones. If you choose to move the
> special folders the files are copied to the new location instead of
> moved. I do not mind that, but please use the term "copy" when that is
> what's going to happen. Another thing is that moving these folders
> causes problems in itself. It did in XP, and more so in Vista.
>
> Why is it so friggin' hard to get this concept down so that the icons
> do not change and you can move the location to a removable drive
> without loosing the icons and functionality of special folders? This
> should be trivial, but obviously isn't.
>
> And please do not tell me "but you can just do this and that to fix
> it". I know I can, but I do not want to do that all the time. It's a
> folder that always stays the same. The only thing that can change is
> it's location. Why can't that be hammered into the registry and be as
> persistent as file associations in WMP? Try to change those, WMP
> freaks out and changes them back. The special folders needs some
> paranoid code like that to make sure they stays in place!


Hi ceed,

One way to stop this from happening is to deny your user account the
ability to write to the desktop.ini file. The desktop.ini file contains
the icon information for the special folders like pictures and music.

Right-click on desktop.ini to select Properties, go to the Security tab
and edit the permissions to deny your user account write access.

Also, if you deny yourself write permission for the desktop.ini file
then you will not be able to customise the folder to your preferences
until you grant your account write access.

NOTE: Desktop.ini is a hidden protected system file. You will need to
un-hide the file to be able to set permissions by un-checking "Hide
protected system files" in the Folder Options.

What i do not get is if the file is a *system* *protected* *file* then
why can you overwrite it so easily?

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User