how to start already downloaded updates manually when yellow balloon is missing

Hi,

We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download but don't
install", if this option could work as expected, as most fail proof and
least time consuming.

That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is accessing a
workstation and has time to go through all proposed updates.

But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
notification area and updates are offered when shutting down - shutting down
workstation means to leave and not to install anything??? And also then
there isn't any control what updates are installed.

Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some months later
lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's controlled by some
update.

Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time consuming
and we seldom have time to do it.

As we provide support for customers with very different needs and areas,
there isn't any central administration updating possibility.

Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all updates
at all and to stop all appropriate services.
I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.

The question is: Which update controls behaviour of this yellow balloon or
how to start already downloaded updates manually?

Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when users can't
control updates to their computers.
And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too many failing
updates.

John

Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...

rina wrote:
> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
> fail proof and least time consuming.
>
> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
> updates.

It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on stand-alone
machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these machines
are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method would be
lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent in the
process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the business in
question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying IT staff to do a
job that could be automated so easily.

> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
> installed.

No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the updates"
would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the yellow shield - a
quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do nothing but updates
is one way to go - but again - in a business environment - what a horrible
waste of resources and time, IMHO.

> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
> controlled by some update.

It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you have
not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try the
following...

Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK

That should stop and start the automatic updates service.

> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.

Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?

> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.

Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can make
computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from one
central server.

> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.

Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
end-user installs the updates?

> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?

None. See above.

> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
> users can't control updates to their computers.
> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
> many failing updates.

Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP was
released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic locations.
I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some sites -
but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity and
the WSUS server is setup properly.

> John

Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates would
cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in the
academic environment with applications from just about every field of study
on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it still shocks
me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years after the release
of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists applications that might have
trouble with a given update (or at least not for very long, anyway.)

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

<applause>

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...
>
> rina wrote:
>> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
>> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
>> fail proof and least time consuming.
>>
>> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
>> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
>> updates.
>
> It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on stand-alone
> machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these
> machines
> are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method would be
> lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent in the
> process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the business in
> question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying IT staff to do
> a
> job that could be automated so easily.
>
>> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
>> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
>> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
>> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
>> installed.
>
> No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the
> updates"
> would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the yellow shield -
> a
> quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do nothing but
> updates
> is one way to go - but again - in a business environment - what a horrible
> waste of resources and time, IMHO.
>
>> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
>> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
>> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
>> controlled by some update.
>
> It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you
> have
> not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try the
> following...
>
> Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
> wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK
>
> That should stop and start the automatic updates service.
>
>> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
>> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.
>
> Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
> more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?
>
>> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
>> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.
>
> Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can
> make
> computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from one
> central server.
>
>> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
>> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
>> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.
>
> Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
> end-user installs the updates?
>
>> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
>> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?
>
> None. See above.
>
>> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
>> users can't control updates to their computers.
>> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
>> many failing updates.
>
> Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP was
> released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic locations.
> I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some sites -
> but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
> assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity
> and
> the WSUS server is setup properly.
>
>> John
>
> Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
> updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates would
> cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in the
> academic environment with applications from just about every field of
> study
> on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it still
> shocks
> me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years after the release
> of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists applications that might have
> trouble with a given update (or at least not for very long, anyway.)
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP

Hi,

I'm also managing customer computers from different organisations all over
the town, therefore there can't be set up any update server.
Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the balloon
appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears. The Windows has
been activated. Updates are downloaded but clicking balloon until visible
doesn't open updates dialog window.
Updates are only visible when shutting down! And this customer has in their
office HP scanner which fails with MSIE 7.
I'm afraid there isn't any other solution left by MS then Windows update
site. Right now I can use it, but most often when visiting customers, there
simply isn't time to go through slow Windows Update site. So my question is
global - how to make updates easier to obtain! Right now it feels like MS
has done everything that people don't want to get these security at all.

Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK doesn't have any
effect to balloon or whatever.

But IMO this balloon as easiest update option is somehow controlled by MS.
At some months most XP PC's have balloon readily available and next month
most PC's have lost it.
And all these PC are in different organisations and very little common with
each other.

John

"Shenan Stanley" <> wrote in message
news:ODZnUc%...
> Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...
>
> rina wrote:
>> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
>> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
>> fail proof and least time consuming.
>>
>> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
>> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
>> updates.
>
> It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on stand-alone
> machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these
> machines are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method
> would be lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent
> in the process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the
> business in question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying IT
> staff to do a job that could be automated so easily.
>
>> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
>> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
>> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
>> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
>> installed.
>
> No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the
> updates" would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the yellow
> shield - a quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do nothing
> but updates is one way to go - but again - in a business environment -
> what a horrible waste of resources and time, IMHO.
>
>> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
>> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
>> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
>> controlled by some update.
>
> It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you
> have not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try
> the following...
>
> Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
> wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK
>
> That should stop and start the automatic updates service.
>
>> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
>> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.
>
> Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
> more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?
>
>> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
>> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.
>
> Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can
> make computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from one
> central server.
>
>> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
>> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
>> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.
>
> Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
> end-user installs the updates?
>
>> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
>> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?
>
> None. See above.
>
>> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
>> users can't control updates to their computers.
>> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
>> many failing updates.
>
> Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP was
> released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic locations.
> I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some sites -
> but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
> assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity
> and the WSUS server is setup properly.
>
>> John
>
> Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
> updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates would
> cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in the
> academic environment with applications from just about every field of
> study on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it
> still shocks me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years
> after the release of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists
> applications that might have trouble with a given update (or at least not
> for very long, anyway.)
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the balloon
> appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears.

Aha!

Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft
Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
installation:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.org/


rina wrote:
> I'm also managing customer computers from different organisations all over
> the town, therefore there can't be set up any update server.
> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the balloon
> appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears. The Windows has
> been activated. Updates are downloaded but clicking balloon until visible
> doesn't open updates dialog window.
> Updates are only visible when shutting down! And this customer has in
> their
> office HP scanner which fails with MSIE 7.
> I'm afraid there isn't any other solution left by MS then Windows update
> site. Right now I can use it, but most often when visiting customers,
> there
> simply isn't time to go through slow Windows Update site. So my question
> is
> global - how to make updates easier to obtain! Right now it feels like MS
> has done everything that people don't want to get these security at all.
>
> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK doesn't have any
> effect to balloon or whatever.
>
> But IMO this balloon as easiest update option is somehow controlled by MS.
> At some months most XP PC's have balloon readily available and next month
> most PC's have lost it.
> And all these PC are in different organisations and very little common
> with
> each other.
>
> John
>
> "Shenan Stanley" <> wrote in message
> news:ODZnUc%...
>> Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...
>>
>> rina wrote:
>>> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
>>> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
>>> fail proof and least time consuming.
>>>
>>> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
>>> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
>>> updates.
>>
>> It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on
>> stand-alone
>> machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these
>> machines are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method
>> would be lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent
>> in the process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the
>> business in question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying
>> IT
>> staff to do a job that could be automated so easily.
>>
>>> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
>>> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
>>> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
>>> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
>>> installed.
>>
>> No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the
>> updates" would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the
>> yellow
>> shield - a quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do
>> nothing
>> but updates is one way to go - but again - in a business environment -
>> what a horrible waste of resources and time, IMHO.
>>
>>> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
>>> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
>>> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
>>> controlled by some update.
>>
>> It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you
>> have not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try
>> the following...
>>
>> Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
>> wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
>> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK
>>
>> That should stop and start the automatic updates service.
>>
>>> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
>>> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.
>>
>> Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
>> more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?
>>
>>> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
>>> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.
>>
>> Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can
>> make computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from
>> one
>> central server.
>>
>>> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
>>> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
>>> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.
>>
>> Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
>> end-user installs the updates?
>>
>>> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
>>> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?
>>
>> None. See above.
>>
>>> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
>>> users can't control updates to their computers.
>>> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
>>> many failing updates.
>>
>> Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP
>> was
>> released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic
>> locations.
>> I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some sites -
>> but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
>> assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity
>> and the WSUS server is setup properly.
>>
>>> John
>>
>> Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
>> updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates would
>> cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in the
>> academic environment with applications from just about every field of
>> study on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it
>> still shocks me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years
>> after the release of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists
>> applications that might have trouble with a given update (or at least not
>> for very long, anyway.)
>>
>> --
>> Shenan Stanley
>> MS-MVP
>> --
>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

For WSUS I need a 2003 server running and CAL's are needed. Last isn't
possible when customers are from different organisations and may be even
private users as well.

http://www.wsuswiki.com/WSUSFAQ


"Shenan Stanley" <> wrote in message
news:ODZnUc%...
> Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...
>
> rina wrote:
>> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
>> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
>> fail proof and least time consuming.
>>
>> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
>> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
>> updates.
>
> It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on stand-alone
> machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these
> machines are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method
> would be lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent
> in the process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the
> business in question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying IT
> staff to do a job that could be automated so easily.
>
>> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
>> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
>> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
>> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
>> installed.
>
> No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the
> updates" would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the yellow
> shield - a quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do nothing
> but updates is one way to go - but again - in a business environment -
> what a horrible waste of resources and time, IMHO.
>
>> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
>> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
>> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
>> controlled by some update.
>
> It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you
> have not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try
> the following...
>
> Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
> wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK
>
> That should stop and start the automatic updates service.
>
>> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
>> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.
>
> Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
> more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?
>
>> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
>> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.
>
> Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can
> make computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from one
> central server.
>
>> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
>> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
>> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.
>
> Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
> end-user installs the updates?
>
>> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
>> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?
>
> None. See above.
>
>> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
>> users can't control updates to their computers.
>> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
>> many failing updates.
>
> Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP was
> released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic locations.
> I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some sites -
> but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
> assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity
> and the WSUS server is setup properly.
>
>> John
>
> Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
> updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates would
> cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in the
> academic environment with applications from just about every field of
> study on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it
> still shocks me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years
> after the release of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists
> applications that might have trouble with a given update (or at least not
> for very long, anyway.)
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

As told - the problem is global, there is no failure when installing through
Windows Update site.
But it's an horrible time wasting, when updates are there already downloaded
but MS simply has took away a yellow balloon to start installing these!
Instead proposing to install when shutting down. But most customers can't
afford this option, as it's often followed by expensive service visit.

John

The proposed KB article IMO isn't the case.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144 Updates are not installed
successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft Update, or by using
Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP installation



"PA Bear" <> wrote in message
news:%23Oy2Dr%...
>> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the
>> balloon
>> appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears.
>
> Aha!
>
> Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from Microsoft
> Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
> installation:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> DTS-L http://dts-l.org/
>
>
> rina wrote:
>> I'm also managing customer computers from different organisations all
>> over
>> the town, therefore there can't be set up any update server.
>> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the
>> balloon
>> appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears. The Windows
>> has
>> been activated. Updates are downloaded but clicking balloon until visible
>> doesn't open updates dialog window.
>> Updates are only visible when shutting down! And this customer has in
>> their
>> office HP scanner which fails with MSIE 7.
>> I'm afraid there isn't any other solution left by MS then Windows update
>> site. Right now I can use it, but most often when visiting customers,
>> there
>> simply isn't time to go through slow Windows Update site. So my question
>> is
>> global - how to make updates easier to obtain! Right now it feels like MS
>> has done everything that people don't want to get these security at all.
>>
>> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK doesn't have any
>> effect to balloon or whatever.
>>
>> But IMO this balloon as easiest update option is somehow controlled by
>> MS.
>> At some months most XP PC's have balloon readily available and next month
>> most PC's have lost it.
>> And all these PC are in different organisations and very little common
>> with
>> each other.
>>
>> John
>>
>> "Shenan Stanley" <> wrote in message
>> news:ODZnUc%...
>>> Reply(ies) are inline with the original message...
>>>
>>> rina wrote:
>>>> We have or would like to have Windows XP updates set to "download
>>>> but don't install", if this option could work as expected, as most
>>>> fail proof and least time consuming.
>>>>
>>>> That's that updates are waiting ready when IT personnel is
>>>> accessing a workstation and has time to go through all proposed
>>>> updates.
>>>
>>> It does work 'as expected' for me. However - I only use it on
>>> stand-alone
>>> machines. In a business environment, I utilize WSUS. Unless these
>>> machines are 'accessed' often by IT personnel, it seems that the method
>>> would be lacking in reliability for many reasons other than any inherent
>>> in the process itself. Also - seems like a huge time-waster for the
>>> business in question and money-sink for the business in terms of paying
>>> IT
>>> staff to do a job that could be automated so easily.
>>>
>>>> But Windows XP Pro SP2 yellow update balloon often disappears from
>>>> notification area and updates are offered when shutting down -
>>>> shutting down workstation means to leave and not to install
>>>> anything??? And also then there isn't any control what updates are
>>>> installed.
>>>
>>> No - "shutting down the workstation without choosing to install the
>>> updates" would be leaving the machine unpatched. If you 'lost' the
>>> yellow
>>> shield - a quick reboot, log back on as the IT professional and do
>>> nothing
>>> but updates is one way to go - but again - in a business environment -
>>> what a horrible waste of resources and time, IMHO.
>>>
>>>> Is there any workaround to get the updates balloon back when needed?
>>>> It looks like in some periods the balloon is available and some
>>>> months later lost again from most XP computers. I believe that it's
>>>> controlled by some update.
>>>
>>> It is not controlled by some update. Next time it goes missing (if you
>>> have not decided to utilize some better options like WSUS for this) try
>>> the following...
>>>
>>> Start button --> RUN --> net stop wuauserv --> Click OK
>>> wait... (10 seconds is more than enough time usually)
>>> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK
>>>
>>> That should stop and start the automatic updates service.
>>>
>>>> Option to download updates from Windows update site is very time
>>>> consuming and we seldom have time to do it.
>>>
>>> Yet you miraculously have time to touch every machine you manage once or
>>> more times per month instead of using something like a WSUS server?
>>>
>>>> As we provide support for customers with very different needs and
>>>> areas, there isn't any central administration updating possibility.
>>>
>>> Really? Why not? WSUS servers are easily setup and managed. You can
>>> make computer groups and choose which computers get which updates from
>>> one
>>> central server.
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately now best working option appears to be to disable all
>>>> updates at all and to stop all appropriate services.
>>>> I doubt that it is what Microsoft wants us to do.
>>>
>>> Why is that a consideration? Are you saying that because sometimes the
>>> end-user installs the updates?
>>>
>>>> The question is: Which update controls behavior of this yellow
>>>> balloon or how to start already downloaded updates manually?
>>>
>>> None. See above.
>>>
>>>> Apparently it's the weakest security link of Windows XP - when
>>>> users can't control updates to their computers.
>>>> And IMO there isn't nothing to do with WGA control ... just too
>>>> many failing updates.
>>>
>>> Why can't they? They have been for the last 5+ years since Windows XP
>>> was
>>> released. I manage MANY computers in MANY different geographic
>>> locations.
>>> I have a few WSUS servers because of speed considerations on some
>>> sites -
>>> but in general - it could all be done from one centralized location -
>>> assuming all the computers have occasional Internet/network connectivity
>>> and the WSUS server is setup properly.
>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>> Good luck, John. Hopefully you will find a better way to distribute the
>>> updates. I have no idea what you could be running that the updates
>>> would
>>> cause much of any havoc with. Being that many of my computers are in
>>> the
>>> academic environment with applications from just about every field of
>>> study on them as well as many 'home-grown' internal applications - it
>>> still shocks me 5+ years after the release of Windows XP and 3+ years
>>> after the release of SP2 for Windows XP that there still exists
>>> applications that might have trouble with a given update (or at least
>>> not
>>> for very long, anyway.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Shenan Stanley
>>> MS-MVP
>>> --
>>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
>>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

Reply(ies) inline...
<
conversation as a whole:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/ff7f7ab72478559e/f2842d859189abec?lnk=st&q=#f2842d859189abec>rina wrote:> I'm also managing customer computers from different organisations> all over the town, therefore there can't be set up any update> server.The organization and geographic location is of little concern *if* you cansetup a centralized server, give it the access needed to distribute theupdates over the internet and make the appropriate (last I checked - 4registry entries) changes on the machines you manage. You might have tospend a little money up front to do something like that - but my bet is thatyou save money (and time/effort) in the long run.> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the> balloon appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears.> The Windows has been activated. Updates are downloaded but clicking> balloon until visible doesn't open updates dialog window.> Updates are only visible when shutting down! And this customer has> in their office HP scanner which fails with MSIE 7.> I'm afraid there isn't any other solution left by MS then Windows> update site. Right now I can use it, but most often when visiting> customers, there simply isn't time to go through slow Windows> Update site. So my question is global - how to make updates easier> to obtain! Right now it feels like MS has done everything that> people don't want to get these security at all.Then figure out what updates are needed and have them on a thumb drive andjust install them during the visit. Although still a bad idea over a WSUSserver in my opinion - it's better than most. It'n not hard just to haveall the updates available. It's not hard to look in Control Panel --> Addor Remove Programs and see when the last ones were installed. Then you knowwhich ones were released after that and you install those.Each month Microsoft releases that month's updates in ISO format:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086(Get any month in ISO format from January 2006 through the most recent.)You can see the critical (security and other) patches released for a givenmonth using the following: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...s##-***.mspxAt the end of this line you see "ms##-***.mspx" .. If you simply replace ##with the two-digit year and the *** with the three character monthabbreviation, you will see the list of "critical" and "important" patchesfor that month (since it only happens once a month usually, if you check bythe second Tuesday (wait until afternoon) of each month - you should befine) - note that future months will not work.As an example... December 2004's patches.. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../ms04-dec.mspx March 2005's patches.. None released.. so that one will fail... May 2006's patches.. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../ms06-may.mspx January 2007's patches.. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...mspxThat's the easiest manual method - and one thumb drive/external USB drive ofsome sort could hold them all and just be designated for that. A batchscript to install a set of them and reboot and you are done.> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK doesn't> have any effect to balloon or whatever.You have to stop it and start it - not just try and start it.If you like, create a batch script and carry it with you:- start copying below here -net stop wuauservnet stop cryptsvcregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuweb.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wups2.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wups.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wucltui.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuaueng1.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuaueng.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuapi.dllnet start cryptsvcnet start wuauserv- stop copying above here -Run it when you want the Windows Automatic Update to do something.Of course - you won't notice anything on a machine that is updated. heh> But IMO this balloon as easiest update option is somehow controlled> by MS. At some months most XP PC's have balloon readily available> and next month most PC's have lost it.It's not 'controlled by MS' if you mean is some nefarious 'from afar'fashion. It is a service on the local computer.> And all these PC are in different organisations and very little> common with each other.Again - doesn't matter. WSUS is an answer.Groups in WSUS 3.0, access to the internet, choose the updates you want foreach group of computers - wait for them to connect and download and installthe updates. You can even turn off the automatic reboot - but at least theupdates will get downloaded and installed - just be waiting on a reboot -and if that part bothers you (WSUS tells you the status of each machine) -you can call the user and ask them to reboot instead of going out to touchtheir machine.Yeah - you will need CALs for it. And that means you would have to be onethat manages enough Windows systems that you have some sort of Windowsserver 2003 system sitting around. ;-)I don't know the particulars (still) of who these customers are, etc. Justthat they seem to be in some organization where their updates cannot becentralized for whatever unknown reason. heh--Shenan Stanley MS-MVP--How To Ask Questions The Smart Wayhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

<snipped>
<
conversation as a whole:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/ff7f7ab72478559e/f2842d859189abec?lnk=st&q=#f2842d859189abec>rina wrote:> As told - the problem is global, there is no failure when> installing through Windows Update site.> But it's an horrible time wasting, when updates are there already> downloaded but MS simply has took away a yellow balloon to start> installing these! Instead proposing to install when shutting down.> But most customers can't afford this option, as it's often followed> by expensive service visit.I disagree. I have hundreds of customers who are set to fully-automaticupdates from Microsoft. I havve many others that are set to download andnotify and many times they do not notice until they start to shutdown - andthey usually install it then. The only time I have had issues is when thecustomer is using a laptop - chose to install at shutdown (either on purposeor without thinking) and then unplugged and forced the laptop off in themiddle of the installation.To me - that is a user-issue. If they had read what was put before themand/or had patience after they read what was put before them and they madetheir choice - they would not have half-installed updates and corruptedfiles. Expensive lesson - but they usually learn after the first one - andif not...--Shenan Stanley MS-MVP--How To Ask Questions The Smart Wayhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Shenan Stanley wrote:
<snipped horribly formatted message>
(hopefully this one will work better!)



Reply(ies) inline...

<
conversation as a whole:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsupdate/browse_frm/thread/ff7f7ab72478559e/f2842d859189abec?lnk=st&q=#f2842d859189abec>rina wrote:> I'm also managing customer computers from different organisations> all over the town, therefore there can't be set up any update> server.The organization and geographic location is of little concern *if* you cansetup a centralized server, give it the access needed to distribute theupdates over the internet and make the appropriate (last I checked - 4registry entries) changes on the machines you manage. You might have tospend a little money up front to do something like that - but my bet is thatyou save money (and time/effort) in the long run.> Right now I have freshly reinstalled Xp Pro to customer PC and the> balloon appears after restart for few minutes and then disappears.> The Windows has been activated. Updates are downloaded but clicking> balloon until visible doesn't open updates dialog window.> Updates are only visible when shutting down! And this customer has> in their office HP scanner which fails with MSIE 7.> I'm afraid there isn't any other solution left by MS then Windows> update site. Right now I can use it, but most often when visiting> customers, there simply isn't time to go through slow Windows> Update site. So my question is global - how to make updates easier> to obtain! Right now it feels like MS has done everything that> people don't want to get these security at all.Then figure out what updates are needed and have them on a thumb drive andjust install them during the visit. Although still a bad idea over a WSUSserver in my opinion - it's better than most. It'n not hard just to haveall the updates available. It's not hard to look in Control Panel --> Addor Remove Programs and see when the last ones were installed. Then you knowwhich ones were released after that and you install those.Each month Microsoft releases that month's updates in ISO format:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086(Get any month in ISO format from January 2006 through the most recent.)You can see the critical (security and other) patches released for a givenmonth using the following:http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...s##-***.mspxAt the end of this line you see "ms##-***.mspx" .. If you simply replace ##with the two-digit year and the *** with the three character monthabbreviation, you will see the list of "critical" and "important" patchesfor that month (since it only happens once a month usually, if you check bythe second Tuesday (wait until afternoon) of each month - you should befine) - note that future months will not work.As an example...December 2004's patches..http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...-dec.mspxMarch 2005's patches.. None released.. so that one will fail...May 2006's patches..http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...ay.mspxJanuary 2007's patches..http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec...mspxThat's the easiest manual method - and one thumb drive/external USB drive ofsome sort could hold them all and just be designated for that. A batchscript to install a set of them and reboot and you are done.> Start button --> RUN --> net start wuauserv --> Click OK doesn't> have any effect to balloon or whatever.You have to stop it and start it - not just try and start it.If you like, create a batch script and carry it with you:- start copying below here -net stop wuauservnet stop cryptsvcregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuweb.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wups2.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wups.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wucltui.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuaueng1.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuaueng.dllregsvr32.exe %systemroot%\system32\wuapi.dllnet start cryptsvcnet start wuauserv- stop copying above here -Run it when you want the Windows Automatic Update to do something.Of course - you won't notice anything on a machine that is updated. heh> But IMO this balloon as easiest update option is somehow controlled> by MS. At some months most XP PC's have balloon readily available> and next month most PC's have lost it.It's not 'controlled by MS' if you mean is some nefarious 'from afar'fashion. It is a service on the local computer.> And all these PC are in different organisations and very little> common with each other.Again - doesn't matter. WSUS is an answer.Groups in WSUS 3.0, access to the internet, choose the updates you want foreach group of computers - wait for them to connect and download and installthe updates. You can even turn off the automatic reboot - but at least theupdates will get downloaded and installed - just be waiting on a reboot -and if that part bothers you (WSUS tells you the status of each machine) -you can call the user and ask them to reboot instead of going out to touchtheir machine.Yeah - you will need CALs for it. And that means you would have to be onethat manages enough Windows systems that you have some sort of Windowsserver 2003 system sitting around. ;-)I don't know the particulars (still) of who these customers are, etc. Justthat they seem to be in some organization where their updates cannot becentralized for whatever unknown reason. heh--Shenan Stanley MS-MVP--How To Ask Questions The Smart Wayhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html