Suggestions, Considerations, and Issues with WLM9 beta

To everyone else here: Please feel free to comment about what I've said. If
its too much to read at least look over what I've bolded to get an idea of
what I'm talking about and to see if you're on the same page as me.


I'll point out a few of my suggestions as well as actual glitches I've
encountered so far:

Suggestions and considerations:
1) “Window Border� doesn’t go away? : Look at the new Zune software user
interface, the standard windows border isn’t there and it’s probably one of
the most aesthetically appealing user interfaces of any of the Microsoft
programs ever released. Many other users, as well as myself, liked that the
border disappeared in Messenger 8.5 when “Show the menu bar� was deselected.
I believe that completely eliminating the standard windows border and top bar
greatly improves the aesthetic experience of the program and saves room. The
software needs to make better use of the space it takes up. I really believe
that people will regard the inability to remove the windows border as a step
backwards for the UI of Windows Live Messenger.

2) Vertical spacing of the entire interface is too much for smaller screens:
When the designers were working on the new interface it doesnt seem like they
really considered smaller screens. This is something I’ve noticed because I
first downloaded it onto my laptop with a 1280x768 resolution screen. The UI
is obviously not scalable but I wouldn’t even expect that anyway. What I
didn’t expect is that the new version would make less use of the space that
the program takes up than the previous version. The interface is spread out
more vertically than in 8.5. Much less of my contact list is visible on the
screen now because of these bigger fonts and increased spaces between
sections and now more vertical scrolling required to actually visibly being
able to see who is online. This brings me to my next consideration:

3) Groups category tab is annoyingly anchored and a waste of space for
people who aren’t using it: Sounds like a good idea but, while anchoring the
tab for it to the top of the list is a good way of exposing users to its
existence, it’s really annoying for someone who has limited vertical screen
space to work with. I wish I could turn it off or at least move it down to
the bottom just above “Offline contacts�.

4) Category heading sizes are too big for small screens: The words “Groups�,
“Favorites�, and Available� and so on all look nice but it would be nice to
be able to scale them down smaller as well as the contacts fonts or spacing
so that it doesn’t take up as much vertical space. Someone with a 30 inch
screen will obviously want everything the biggest they can make it but at the
small screen end of the spectrum it is annoying to have things spread out
much more than they were in 8.5. As a result I feel forced to view the
contacts by status and not by category because the category headings take up
more space than before and vertically stretch out my list much longer than
8.5 did.

5) Favorites stay up when they’re offline: Great idea. Now the 2-3 people I
talk to the most can be at the top of my list, but why do they stay up there
when they’re offline? It’s unnecessary. We don’t need to see them at the top
of the list when they’re offline. We should at least be able to turn this
off. When they come online it would be nice for them to show up in the
favorites area but when they log off they should go to the “offline contacts�
category.

6) Hear your own signature sound upon log in: It would be nice to be able to
hear your own signature sound when you sign on. I currently have a sound clip
from the song “Wake me up when September ends� by Green Day. It’d be nice to
hear it when I log in so that I’m reminded what it is. Plus, if I can’t
stand hearing it every time I log on then the people on my contact list
probably can’t either, so then it would probably feel like time to change it
to a new sound. I think the way its set up now, I can sit at a friends laptop
and put a fart sound and they'd never know that every time they log in, all
of their friends hear him proclaim something that he isnt even aware of.

7) New transparent hover over popup doesn’t have “Live Spaces� content that
the contact card did and the contact card is pushed into the back corner
where nobody will end up seeing it: I agree that the contact card could’ve
been improved but why didn’t you figure out how to improve it rather than
shove the same old card one level deeper where nobody will see it. We can do
everything you added in that transparent box (and more) by right clicking on
the contact in the list, which is what everyone is used to doing anyway.

8) Your own display name at the top of the UI is cut off when the window is
resized width wise by the (Available) word when there is plenty of room for
it to move over to the right: I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but when you
resize the window width wise the “(Away)� or “(Available)� message next to
your own display name moves inwards and blocks out and covers over your own
display name when there is a lot of space between the word “(Away)� and the
right side of the window. Again, I think this is a poor use of space. See
this again: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg

9) “Do not show empty groups� option should be available: When nobody from
my family category is online, why does that section even show up telling me
to drag contacts to the group? Take a look at Yahoo messenger. Yahoo allows
you to hide empty groups. This is another space waster. I was really
surprised this wasnt changed for the new version.

10) In the actual chat windows, why are the display pictures spaced so far
from the left side of the window? Again, this doesn’t seem like a good use of
space. The new style is great but the old version seemed more compact. The
spacing just seems a bit off and they seem to need to move over to the left a
bit more.

11) The banner add on the bottom of the main list window should
automatically center with the window. It’s annoying to resize the window
vertically and have the banner stick to the left. It doesn’t seem appropriate
for a tall thin messenger list window to not have it centered.

12) Xbox live and Zune friend list integration: Why aren’t you doing this?
Man it seems like if Microsoft did a better job of interconnecting its
different platforms it would be absolutely amazing. Heres an idea I’m coming
up with as I’m writing this... Picture this: Next to one of my buddies normal
display pictures on the main WLM contact list, right beside that or the small
red orange or green dot how about seeing a Messenger man icon, a Zune icon
and an Xbox 360 circle icon. The icons should only show up if that user is a
member of those other services. THEN by clicking on that small icon it
switches the line of their contact name to resemble their Xbox interface
coloring with the Xbox gamerpic replacing the default WLM display picture and
the current game they’re playing listed if they’re online on xbox live and a
blank space if they are not currently on. Then clicking the Zune icon should
do the same by replacing the display picture with the current Zune card image
and showing current song if any otherwise a blank space. When in either the
Zune view or the Xbox live view there should be a large shiny “card� button
to the right of where the current song or current game is listed that you can
hover over that brings up the users flash based Zune card or gamer card
depending on the view you’re in (WLM/Zune/XboxLive view of that contact). The
same Zune card that you can get in the Zune social (the one you can put on
Facebook and other sites) where you can click around an animated interface
and see recent and favorite songs and play small clips of them right in the
card. In the Xbox view of the contacts line on the messenger list there
should be a similar shiny card button that takes up a significant amount of
the line next to the gamertag that you can hover over and see the person’s
gamercard showing recent games and gamerscore as well as a small button that
opens a form to send them a message on that service. Lastly if someone is
online on WLM, online on Zune listening to a song and on xbox live playing a
game all at the same time, the list should fade between the two or three
different views of that contact as it appears on the messenger list maybe 5
seconds each. This all would take up the same space that a current WLM user
takes up right now and wouldn’t waste vertical space. Double clicking the
users line should open its WLM chatbox by default, otherwise it would be
annoying to have to wait until it’s in WLM view to message them.

At the very least, those icons should be there and when you click them the
xbox gamercard should pop up or the animated flash based zune card should pop
up similar to how the transparent black box popus up now when you click on a
users display image. I like the auto switching and fading contact line idea
better though. Even though it's more complicated it shoves the zune and xbox
networks right into the face of any WLM user who has a buddy that has zune or
xbox live without requiring them to click on something (that they probably
never will)
Doesn’t this make sense from a marketing perspective too? Im talking about
marketing other Microsoft products to the millions of WLM users who have
never had a zune or an xbox because they haven’t even been exposed to those
product platforms. Not only would this go above consumer expectations, but it
would be exposing people on one platform to the fact that their contacts are
participating in other platforms such as zune. This would be almost as good
as the user going up to the person and telling them about zune. In this case
it would be demonstrating to that a persons friends are using those other
products and if it is appealing and all fits together nicely, the person who
sees this on their list might be compelled to look more into Zune or Xbox
since their friends are almost actively demonstrating their usage to them. If
you could bring these services together and then tie it to Zune you can get
great exposure of these different products across all platforms.

Just as a side note (unrelated to messenger) Zune should have its own 3d
blade/section on the new Xbox live fall 2008 interface too, if it doesn’t
already. It should have a UI that resembles a mix between the PC Zune 3.0
visualizer interface (with the cool artist images) and the Zune handheld
style sliding interface which is more suited for a controller. This should be
the 360s audio and video players, not the current offerings. When you want to
play your own music in a game it should be opened through a Zune tab. Why
not? There are tons of people who have live who are iPod users. By doing that
you make them Zune users whether they want to be or not and shows them the
quality of the Zune platform. Anyways, I guess that’s a rant for another blog
somewhere where there’s a separate team that has no collaboration
(unfortunately) with this WLM team. Also I really hope that Zune is a section
of the new windows mobile interface as well. Microsoft needs to pull
everything together and then the different platforms can help the other ones
grow. Microsoft is diversified which is good but there is not enough
integration. This shouldn’t be something I am asking for. This should be
something Microsoft has already done. It’d probably be better money spent
developing these things then doing poorly written Gates and Seinfeld
commercials plus this will actually help actually increase business and
exposure of Microsoft’s other platforms.

That’s all I can think of now but I feel like I’m missing a few other things
As far as glitches, I’ve experienced some of those also, but I’m assuming
that these are the things the WLM team is already aware of

- Can’t leave the group I made and every time I try it creates a new group
with the same name. Now I’m up to 12 of the same group that I can’t remove
from the list because it can’t contact a server or something. I don’t know
but it’s annoying.

- The only tab icon that shows up is the windows live today. I can’t see
the good old Xbox tab which I always rely on to check who is online on Xbox
live.

Downloading this and looking through it has given me a lot of ideas. At
first I wasn't sure if I liked it but now I'm starting to warm up to it.
There are a LOT of great new ideas in here that I was really impressed with
but I’m not going to praise all of them here. At first glance the standard
main list background of bright blue was blindingly bright when I first opened
the program but after figuring out how to upload a high contrast image of a
sunset that I had it feels much more like the Zune 3.0 interface and a big
step up from even the standard color options. Here’s what it looks like on
mine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg

It says “I’m Nathan� but Nathan is cut short to Nath… because away covers
over it even though there is plenty of room for “(Away)� to move over to the
right. (consideration 8 above)


I'm the kind of person who always thinks about how things could be better.
This program really made me think of a TON of things but I think they’re all
noteworthy and I really honestly believe that the program could be MUCH
better. It seems like Microsoft likes coming out with new versions of
programs with their own set of issues instead of looking at what could be
perfected or improved upon in the older platform. This release seems like a
good example. I know this is a beta, which means that we’re way beyond the
design phase unfortunately but I think these suggestions I have are worth
listening to for future consideration. I think many people would agree with
me as well. I dont think my considerations were unreasonable.

Who am I? I'm just a business undergrad who is just about to graduate with a
Bachelor of Commerce degree with a specialization in marketing and a minor in
applied IT and a minor in philosophy . As far as the aspect of marketing that
involves product design or advertising or any of those types of things where
presentation and function is important, I'm a BIG believer in the importance
of good aesthetic appeal and extremely efficient functional design. I believe
form and function of a piece of software are both critically important.
Unfortunately, like with video games, you have programmers coming up with the
interfaces and aesthetics and creative concepts, even the stories, and
ultimately they dont work and feel clunky and poorly designed. Sometimes
they're great at programming it and getting it all working, but often they're
not so good at the actual design. I think this was a good beta release but it
could be a LOT better. I expect more from Microsoft as a Microsoft customer
that practically lives out of my windows based laptop running WLMessenger as
many people do. Messengers are not just products, they are a part of the
lives of more and more people. Of all the software programs people create,
messengers are probably one of the most widely used and most important in the
social culture of modern society. Designing the messenger properly is
important for not only the company who offers the service and their
businesses but for the user as well.

While a lot of people are jumping ship to Apple, I really see the
inspiration and creativity that microsoft employees are not trying to put
into these products going forward. I see so much potential but things could
still be a lot better across the board.

I definitely agree with #1 below. It would be very nice if there were no
border. One thing I didn't like about how they did it in 8.5 was even when
the border was hidden, there was still about a quarter of an inch of "blank"
space above the window so I couldn't put the contact list all the way to the
top of my screen.

The spacing issues you referred to do not bother me, but my resolution is
1280 x 1024 so I can see why it might be bad for someone with a low res
monitor, but if you want to send a message to a specific person, it's much
faster to just type their name in the top search bar.

I agree with #5 as well. If my favorites are offline, there's not really
any reason to list them there. Obviously, you still want to keep them in
their respective group below the Favorites.

I agree with #10 - there is too much space on the left side of the display
pictures.



"Nath5000" wrote:

> To everyone else here: Please feel free to comment about what I've said. If
> its too much to read at least look over what I've bolded to get an idea of
> what I'm talking about and to see if you're on the same page as me.
>
>
> I'll point out a few of my suggestions as well as actual glitches I've
> encountered so far:
>
> Suggestions and considerations:
> 1) “Window Border� doesn’t go away? : Look at the new Zune software user
> interface, the standard windows border isn’t there and it’s probably one of
> the most aesthetically appealing user interfaces of any of the Microsoft
> programs ever released. Many other users, as well as myself, liked that the
> border disappeared in Messenger 8.5 when “Show the menu bar� was deselected.
> I believe that completely eliminating the standard windows border and top bar
> greatly improves the aesthetic experience of the program and saves room. The
> software needs to make better use of the space it takes up. I really believe
> that people will regard the inability to remove the windows border as a step
> backwards for the UI of Windows Live Messenger.
>
> 2) Vertical spacing of the entire interface is too much for smaller screens:
> When the designers were working on the new interface it doesnt seem like they
> really considered smaller screens. This is something I’ve noticed because I
> first downloaded it onto my laptop with a 1280x768 resolution screen. The UI
> is obviously not scalable but I wouldn’t even expect that anyway. What I
> didn’t expect is that the new version would make less use of the space that
> the program takes up than the previous version. The interface is spread out
> more vertically than in 8.5. Much less of my contact list is visible on the
> screen now because of these bigger fonts and increased spaces between
> sections and now more vertical scrolling required to actually visibly being
> able to see who is online. This brings me to my next consideration:
>
> 3) Groups category tab is annoyingly anchored and a waste of space for
> people who aren’t using it: Sounds like a good idea but, while anchoring the
> tab for it to the top of the list is a good way of exposing users to its
> existence, it’s really annoying for someone who has limited vertical screen
> space to work with. I wish I could turn it off or at least move it down to
> the bottom just above “Offline contacts�.
>
> 4) Category heading sizes are too big for small screens: The words “Groups�,
> “Favorites�, and Available� and so on all look nice but it would be nice to
> be able to scale them down smaller as well as the contacts fonts or spacing
> so that it doesn’t take up as much vertical space. Someone with a 30 inch
> screen will obviously want everything the biggest they can make it but at the
> small screen end of the spectrum it is annoying to have things spread out
> much more than they were in 8.5. As a result I feel forced to view the
> contacts by status and not by category because the category headings take up
> more space than before and vertically stretch out my list much longer than
> 8.5 did.
>
> 5) Favorites stay up when they’re offline: Great idea. Now the 2-3 people I
> talk to the most can be at the top of my list, but why do they stay up there
> when they’re offline? It’s unnecessary. We don’t need to see them at the top
> of the list when they’re offline. We should at least be able to turn this
> off. When they come online it would be nice for them to show up in the
> favorites area but when they log off they should go to the “offline contacts�
> category.
>
> 6) Hear your own signature sound upon log in: It would be nice to be able to
> hear your own signature sound when you sign on. I currently have a sound clip
> from the song “Wake me up when September ends� by Green Day. It’d be nice to
> hear it when I log in so that I’m reminded what it is. Plus, if I can’t
> stand hearing it every time I log on then the people on my contact list
> probably can’t either, so then it would probably feel like time to change it
> to a new sound. I think the way its set up now, I can sit at a friends laptop
> and put a fart sound and they'd never know that every time they log in, all
> of their friends hear him proclaim something that he isnt even aware of.
>
> 7) New transparent hover over popup doesn’t have “Live Spaces� content that
> the contact card did and the contact card is pushed into the back corner
> where nobody will end up seeing it: I agree that the contact card could’ve
> been improved but why didn’t you figure out how to improve it rather than
> shove the same old card one level deeper where nobody will see it. We can do
> everything you added in that transparent box (and more) by right clicking on
> the contact in the list, which is what everyone is used to doing anyway.
>
> 8) Your own display name at the top of the UI is cut off when the window is
> resized width wise by the (Available) word when there is plenty of room for
> it to move over to the right: I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but when you
> resize the window width wise the “(Away)� or “(Available)� message next to
> your own display name moves inwards and blocks out and covers over your own
> display name when there is a lot of space between the word “(Away)� and the
> right side of the window. Again, I think this is a poor use of space. See
> this again: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
>
> 9) “Do not show empty groups� option should be available: When nobody from
> my family category is online, why does that section even show up telling me
> to drag contacts to the group? Take a look at Yahoo messenger. Yahoo allows
> you to hide empty groups. This is another space waster. I was really
> surprised this wasnt changed for the new version.
>
> 10) In the actual chat windows, why are the display pictures spaced so far
> from the left side of the window? Again, this doesn’t seem like a good use of
> space. The new style is great but the old version seemed more compact. The
> spacing just seems a bit off and they seem to need to move over to the left a
> bit more.
>
> 11) The banner add on the bottom of the main list window should
> automatically center with the window. It’s annoying to resize the window
> vertically and have the banner stick to the left. It doesn’t seem appropriate
> for a tall thin messenger list window to not have it centered.
>
> 12) Xbox live and Zune friend list integration: Why aren’t you doing this?
> Man it seems like if Microsoft did a better job of interconnecting its
> different platforms it would be absolutely amazing. Heres an idea I’m coming
> up with as I’m writing this... Picture this: Next to one of my buddies normal
> display pictures on the main WLM contact list, right beside that or the small
> red orange or green dot how about seeing a Messenger man icon, a Zune icon
> and an Xbox 360 circle icon. The icons should only show up if that user is a
> member of those other services. THEN by clicking on that small icon it
> switches the line of their contact name to resemble their Xbox interface
> coloring with the Xbox gamerpic replacing the default WLM display picture and
> the current game they’re playing listed if they’re online on xbox live and a
> blank space if they are not currently on. Then clicking the Zune icon should
> do the same by replacing the display picture with the current Zune card image
> and showing current song if any otherwise a blank space. When in either the
> Zune view or the Xbox live view there should be a large shiny “card� button
> to the right of where the current song or current game is listed that you can
> hover over that brings up the users flash based Zune card or gamer card
> depending on the view you’re in (WLM/Zune/XboxLive view of that contact). The
> same Zune card that you can get in the Zune social (the one you can put on
> Facebook and other sites) where you can click around an animated interface
> and see recent and favorite songs and play small clips of them right in the
> card. In the Xbox view of the contacts line on the messenger list there
> should be a similar shiny card button that takes up a significant amount of
> the line next to the gamertag that you can hover over and see the person’s
> gamercard showing recent games and gamerscore as well as a small button that
> opens a form to send them a message on that service. Lastly if someone is
> online on WLM, online on Zune listening to a song and on xbox live playing a
> game all at the same time, the list should fade between the two or three
> different views of that contact as it appears on the messenger list maybe 5
> seconds each. This all would take up the same space that a current WLM user
> takes up right now and wouldn’t waste vertical space. Double clicking the
> users line should open its WLM chatbox by default, otherwise it would be
> annoying to have to wait until it’s in WLM view to message them.
>
> At the very least, those icons should be there and when you click them the
> xbox gamercard should pop up or the animated flash based zune card should pop
> up similar to how the transparent black box popus up now when you click on a
> users display image. I like the auto switching and fading contact line idea
> better though. Even though it's more complicated it shoves the zune and xbox
> networks right into the face of any WLM user who has a buddy that has zune or
> xbox live without requiring them to click on something (that they probably
> never will)
> Doesn’t this make sense from a marketing perspective too? Im talking about
> marketing other Microsoft products to the millions of WLM users who have
> never had a zune or an xbox because they haven’t even been exposed to those
> product platforms. Not only would this go above consumer expectations, but it
> would be exposing people on one platform to the fact that their contacts are
> participating in other platforms such as zune. This would be almost as good
> as the user going up to the person and telling them about zune. In this case
> it would be demonstrating to that a persons friends are using those other
> products and if it is appealing and all fits together nicely, the person who
> sees this on their list might be compelled to look more into Zune or Xbox
> since their friends are almost actively demonstrating their usage to them. If
> you could bring these services together and then tie it to Zune you can get
> great exposure of these different products across all platforms.
>
> Just as a side note (unrelated to messenger) Zune should have its own 3d
> blade/section on the new Xbox live fall 2008 interface too, if it doesn’t
> already. It should have a UI that resembles a mix between the PC Zune 3.0
> visualizer interface (with the cool artist images) and the Zune handheld
> style sliding interface which is more suited for a controller. This should be
> the 360s audio and video players, not the current offerings. When you want to
> play your own music in a game it should be opened through a Zune tab. Why
> not? There are tons of people who have live who are iPod users. By doing that
> you make them Zune users whether they want to be or not and shows them the
> quality of the Zune platform. Anyways, I guess that’s a rant for another blog
> somewhere where there’s a separate team that has no collaboration
> (unfortunately) with this WLM team. Also I really hope that Zune is a section
> of the new windows mobile interface as well. Microsoft needs to pull
> everything together and then the different platforms can help the other ones
> grow. Microsoft is diversified which is good but there is not enough
> integration. This shouldn’t be something I am asking for. This should be
> something Microsoft has already done. It’d probably be better money spent
> developing these things then doing poorly written Gates and Seinfeld
> commercials plus this will actually help actually increase business and
> exposure of Microsoft’s other platforms.
>
> That’s all I can think of now but I feel like I’m missing a few other things
> As far as glitches, I’ve experienced some of those also, but I’m assuming
> that these are the things the WLM team is already aware of
>
> - Can’t leave the group I made and every time I try it creates a new group
> with the same name. Now I’m up to 12 of the same group that I can’t remove
> from the list because it can’t contact a server or something. I don’t know
> but it’s annoying.
>
> - The only tab icon that shows up is the windows live today. I can’t see
> the good old Xbox tab which I always rely on to check who is online on Xbox
> live.
>
> Downloading this and looking through it has given me a lot of ideas. At
> first I wasn't sure if I liked it but now I'm starting to warm up to it.
> There are a LOT of great new ideas in here that I was really impressed with
> but I’m not going to praise all of them here. At first glance the standard
> main list background of bright blue was blindingly bright when I first opened
> the program but after figuring out how to upload a high contrast image of a
> sunset that I had it feels much more like the Zune 3.0 interface and a big
> step up from even the standard color options. Here’s what it looks like on
> mine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
>
> It says “I’m Nathan� but Nathan is cut short to Nath… because away covers
> over it even though there is plenty of room for “(Away)� to move over to the
> right. (consideration 8 above)
>
>
> I'm the kind of person who always thinks about how things could be better.
> This program really made me think of a TON of things but I think they’re all
> noteworthy and I really honestly believe that the program could be MUCH
> better. It seems like Microsoft likes coming out with new versions of
> programs with their own set of issues instead of looking at what could be
> perfected or improved upon in the older platform. This release seems like a
> good example. I know this is a beta, which means that we’re way beyond the
> design phase unfortunately but I think these suggestions I have are worth
> listening to for future consideration. I think many people would agree with
> me as well. I dont think my considerations were unreasonable.
>
> Who am I? I'm just a business undergrad who is just about to graduate with a
> Bachelor of Commerce degree with a specialization in marketing and a minor in
> applied IT and a minor in philosophy . As far as the aspect of marketing that
> involves product design or advertising or any of those types of things where
> presentation and function is important, I'm a BIG believer in the importance
> of good aesthetic appeal and extremely efficient functional design. I believe
> form and function of a piece of software are both critically important.
> Unfortunately, like with video games, you have programmers coming up with the
> interfaces and aesthetics and creative concepts, even the stories, and
> ultimately they dont work and feel clunky and poorly designed. Sometimes
> they're great at programming it and getting it all working, but often they're
> not so good at the actual design. I think this was a good beta release but it
> could be a LOT better. I expect more from Microsoft as a Microsoft customer
> that practically lives out of my windows based laptop running WLMessenger as
> many people do. Messengers are not just products, they are a part of the
> lives of more and more people. Of all the software programs people create,
> messengers are probably one of the most widely used and most important in the
> social culture of modern society. Designing the messenger properly is
> important for not only the company who offers the service and their
> businesses but for the user as well.
>
> While a lot of people are jumping ship to Apple, I really see the
> inspiration and creativity that microsoft employees are not trying to put
> into these products going forward. I see so much potential but things could
> still be a lot better across the board.
>

Yeah I agree about the space above the list window in 8.5. I was always
annoyed by that and submitted feedback about that too but they never fixed
it. Instead, they've developed a whole new version with a whole new layout
and a whole new list of issues.

"russedl" wrote:

> I definitely agree with #1 below. It would be very nice if there were no
> border. One thing I didn't like about how they did it in 8.5 was even when
> the border was hidden, there was still about a quarter of an inch of "blank"
> space above the window so I couldn't put the contact list all the way to the
> top of my screen.
>
> The spacing issues you referred to do not bother me, but my resolution is
> 1280 x 1024 so I can see why it might be bad for someone with a low res
> monitor, but if you want to send a message to a specific person, it's much
> faster to just type their name in the top search bar.
>
> I agree with #5 as well. If my favorites are offline, there's not really
> any reason to list them there. Obviously, you still want to keep them in
> their respective group below the Favorites.
>
> I agree with #10 - there is too much space on the left side of the display
> pictures.
>
>
>
> "Nath5000" wrote:
>
> > To everyone else here: Please feel free to comment about what I've said. If
> > its too much to read at least look over what I've bolded to get an idea of
> > what I'm talking about and to see if you're on the same page as me.
> >
> >
> > I'll point out a few of my suggestions as well as actual glitches I've
> > encountered so far:
> >
> > Suggestions and considerations:
> > 1) “Window Border� doesn’t go away? : Look at the new Zune software user
> > interface, the standard windows border isn’t there and it’s probably one of
> > the most aesthetically appealing user interfaces of any of the Microsoft
> > programs ever released. Many other users, as well as myself, liked that the
> > border disappeared in Messenger 8.5 when “Show the menu bar� was deselected.
> > I believe that completely eliminating the standard windows border and top bar
> > greatly improves the aesthetic experience of the program and saves room. The
> > software needs to make better use of the space it takes up. I really believe
> > that people will regard the inability to remove the windows border as a step
> > backwards for the UI of Windows Live Messenger.
> >
> > 2) Vertical spacing of the entire interface is too much for smaller screens:
> > When the designers were working on the new interface it doesnt seem like they
> > really considered smaller screens. This is something I’ve noticed because I
> > first downloaded it onto my laptop with a 1280x768 resolution screen. The UI
> > is obviously not scalable but I wouldn’t even expect that anyway. What I
> > didn’t expect is that the new version would make less use of the space that
> > the program takes up than the previous version. The interface is spread out
> > more vertically than in 8.5. Much less of my contact list is visible on the
> > screen now because of these bigger fonts and increased spaces between
> > sections and now more vertical scrolling required to actually visibly being
> > able to see who is online. This brings me to my next consideration:
> >
> > 3) Groups category tab is annoyingly anchored and a waste of space for
> > people who aren’t using it: Sounds like a good idea but, while anchoring the
> > tab for it to the top of the list is a good way of exposing users to its
> > existence, it’s really annoying for someone who has limited vertical screen
> > space to work with. I wish I could turn it off or at least move it down to
> > the bottom just above “Offline contacts�.
> >
> > 4) Category heading sizes are too big for small screens: The words “Groups�,
> > “Favorites�, and Available� and so on all look nice but it would be nice to
> > be able to scale them down smaller as well as the contacts fonts or spacing
> > so that it doesn’t take up as much vertical space. Someone with a 30 inch
> > screen will obviously want everything the biggest they can make it but at the
> > small screen end of the spectrum it is annoying to have things spread out
> > much more than they were in 8.5. As a result I feel forced to view the
> > contacts by status and not by category because the category headings take up
> > more space than before and vertically stretch out my list much longer than
> > 8.5 did.
> >
> > 5) Favorites stay up when they’re offline: Great idea. Now the 2-3 people I
> > talk to the most can be at the top of my list, but why do they stay up there
> > when they’re offline? It’s unnecessary. We don’t need to see them at the top
> > of the list when they’re offline. We should at least be able to turn this
> > off. When they come online it would be nice for them to show up in the
> > favorites area but when they log off they should go to the “offline contacts�
> > category.
> >
> > 6) Hear your own signature sound upon log in: It would be nice to be able to
> > hear your own signature sound when you sign on. I currently have a sound clip
> > from the song “Wake me up when September ends� by Green Day. It’d be nice to
> > hear it when I log in so that I’m reminded what it is. Plus, if I can’t
> > stand hearing it every time I log on then the people on my contact list
> > probably can’t either, so then it would probably feel like time to change it
> > to a new sound. I think the way its set up now, I can sit at a friends laptop
> > and put a fart sound and they'd never know that every time they log in, all
> > of their friends hear him proclaim something that he isnt even aware of.
> >
> > 7) New transparent hover over popup doesn’t have “Live Spaces� content that
> > the contact card did and the contact card is pushed into the back corner
> > where nobody will end up seeing it: I agree that the contact card could’ve
> > been improved but why didn’t you figure out how to improve it rather than
> > shove the same old card one level deeper where nobody will see it. We can do
> > everything you added in that transparent box (and more) by right clicking on
> > the contact in the list, which is what everyone is used to doing anyway.
> >
> > 8) Your own display name at the top of the UI is cut off when the window is
> > resized width wise by the (Available) word when there is plenty of room for
> > it to move over to the right: I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but when you
> > resize the window width wise the “(Away)� or “(Available)� message next to
> > your own display name moves inwards and blocks out and covers over your own
> > display name when there is a lot of space between the word “(Away)� and the
> > right side of the window. Again, I think this is a poor use of space. See
> > this again: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
> >
> > 9) “Do not show empty groups� option should be available: When nobody from
> > my family category is online, why does that section even show up telling me
> > to drag contacts to the group? Take a look at Yahoo messenger. Yahoo allows
> > you to hide empty groups. This is another space waster. I was really
> > surprised this wasnt changed for the new version.
> >
> > 10) In the actual chat windows, why are the display pictures spaced so far
> > from the left side of the window? Again, this doesn’t seem like a good use of
> > space. The new style is great but the old version seemed more compact. The
> > spacing just seems a bit off and they seem to need to move over to the left a
> > bit more.
> >
> > 11) The banner add on the bottom of the main list window should
> > automatically center with the window. It’s annoying to resize the window
> > vertically and have the banner stick to the left. It doesn’t seem appropriate
> > for a tall thin messenger list window to not have it centered.
> >
> > 12) Xbox live and Zune friend list integration: Why aren’t you doing this?
> > Man it seems like if Microsoft did a better job of interconnecting its
> > different platforms it would be absolutely amazing. Heres an idea I’m coming
> > up with as I’m writing this... Picture this: Next to one of my buddies normal
> > display pictures on the main WLM contact list, right beside that or the small
> > red orange or green dot how about seeing a Messenger man icon, a Zune icon
> > and an Xbox 360 circle icon. The icons should only show up if that user is a
> > member of those other services. THEN by clicking on that small icon it
> > switches the line of their contact name to resemble their Xbox interface
> > coloring with the Xbox gamerpic replacing the default WLM display picture and
> > the current game they’re playing listed if they’re online on xbox live and a
> > blank space if they are not currently on. Then clicking the Zune icon should
> > do the same by replacing the display picture with the current Zune card image
> > and showing current song if any otherwise a blank space. When in either the
> > Zune view or the Xbox live view there should be a large shiny “card� button
> > to the right of where the current song or current game is listed that you can
> > hover over that brings up the users flash based Zune card or gamer card
> > depending on the view you’re in (WLM/Zune/XboxLive view of that contact). The
> > same Zune card that you can get in the Zune social (the one you can put on
> > Facebook and other sites) where you can click around an animated interface
> > and see recent and favorite songs and play small clips of them right in the
> > card. In the Xbox view of the contacts line on the messenger list there
> > should be a similar shiny card button that takes up a significant amount of
> > the line next to the gamertag that you can hover over and see the person’s
> > gamercard showing recent games and gamerscore as well as a small button that
> > opens a form to send them a message on that service. Lastly if someone is
> > online on WLM, online on Zune listening to a song and on xbox live playing a
> > game all at the same time, the list should fade between the two or three
> > different views of that contact as it appears on the messenger list maybe 5
> > seconds each. This all would take up the same space that a current WLM user
> > takes up right now and wouldn’t waste vertical space. Double clicking the
> > users line should open its WLM chatbox by default, otherwise it would be
> > annoying to have to wait until it’s in WLM view to message them.
> >
> > At the very least, those icons should be there and when you click them the
> > xbox gamercard should pop up or the animated flash based zune card should pop
> > up similar to how the transparent black box popus up now when you click on a
> > users display image. I like the auto switching and fading contact line idea
> > better though. Even though it's more complicated it shoves the zune and xbox
> > networks right into the face of any WLM user who has a buddy that has zune or
> > xbox live without requiring them to click on something (that they probably
> > never will)
> > Doesn’t this make sense from a marketing perspective too? Im talking about
> > marketing other Microsoft products to the millions of WLM users who have
> > never had a zune or an xbox because they haven’t even been exposed to those
> > product platforms. Not only would this go above consumer expectations, but it
> > would be exposing people on one platform to the fact that their contacts are
> > participating in other platforms such as zune. This would be almost as good
> > as the user going up to the person and telling them about zune. In this case
> > it would be demonstrating to that a persons friends are using those other
> > products and if it is appealing and all fits together nicely, the person who
> > sees this on their list might be compelled to look more into Zune or Xbox
> > since their friends are almost actively demonstrating their usage to them. If
> > you could bring these services together and then tie it to Zune you can get
> > great exposure of these different products across all platforms.
> >
> > Just as a side note (unrelated to messenger) Zune should have its own 3d
> > blade/section on the new Xbox live fall 2008 interface too, if it doesn’t
> > already. It should have a UI that resembles a mix between the PC Zune 3.0
> > visualizer interface (with the cool artist images) and the Zune handheld
> > style sliding interface which is more suited for a controller. This should be
> > the 360s audio and video players, not the current offerings. When you want to
> > play your own music in a game it should be opened through a Zune tab. Why
> > not? There are tons of people who have live who are iPod users. By doing that
> > you make them Zune users whether they want to be or not and shows them the
> > quality of the Zune platform. Anyways, I guess that’s a rant for another blog
> > somewhere where there’s a separate team that has no collaboration
> > (unfortunately) with this WLM team. Also I really hope that Zune is a section
> > of the new windows mobile interface as well. Microsoft needs to pull
> > everything together and then the different platforms can help the other ones
> > grow. Microsoft is diversified which is good but there is not enough
> > integration. This shouldn’t be something I am asking for. This should be
> > something Microsoft has already done. It’d probably be better money spent
> > developing these things then doing poorly written Gates and Seinfeld
> > commercials plus this will actually help actually increase business and
> > exposure of Microsoft’s other platforms.
> >
> > That’s all I can think of now but I feel like I’m missing a few other things
> > As far as glitches, I’ve experienced some of those also, but I’m assuming
> > that these are the things the WLM team is already aware of
> >
> > - Can’t leave the group I made and every time I try it creates a new group
> > with the same name. Now I’m up to 12 of the same group that I can’t remove
> > from the list because it can’t contact a server or something. I don’t know
> > but it’s annoying.
> >
> > - The only tab icon that shows up is the windows live today. I can’t see
> > the good old Xbox tab which I always rely on to check who is online on Xbox
> > live.
> >
> > Downloading this and looking through it has given me a lot of ideas. At
> > first I wasn't sure if I liked it but now I'm starting to warm up to it.
> > There are a LOT of great new ideas in here that I was really impressed with
> > but I’m not going to praise all of them here. At first glance the standard
> > main list background of bright blue was blindingly bright when I first opened
> > the program but after figuring out how to upload a high contrast image of a
> > sunset that I had it feels much more like the Zune 3.0 interface and a big
> > step up from even the standard color options. Here’s what it looks like on
> > mine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
> >
> > It says “I’m Nathan� but Nathan is cut short to Nath… because away covers
> > over it even though there is plenty of room for “(Away)� to move over to the
> > right. (consideration 8 above)
> >
> >
> > I'm the kind of person who always thinks about how things could be better.
> > This program really made me think of a TON of things but I think they’re all
> > noteworthy and I really honestly believe that the program could be MUCH
> > better. It seems like Microsoft likes coming out with new versions of
> > programs with their own set of issues instead of looking at what could be
> > perfected or improved upon in the older platform. This release seems like a
> > good example. I know this is a beta, which means that we’re way beyond the
> > design phase unfortunately but I think these suggestions I have are worth
> > listening to for future consideration. I think many people would agree with
> > me as well. I dont think my considerations were unreasonable.
> >
> > Who am I? I'm just a business undergrad who is just about to graduate with a
> > Bachelor of Commerce degree with a specialization in marketing and a minor in
> > applied IT and a minor in philosophy . As far as the aspect of marketing that
> > involves product design or advertising or any of those types of things where
> > presentation and function is important, I'm a BIG believer in the importance
> > of good aesthetic appeal and extremely efficient functional design. I believe
> > form and function of a piece of software are both critically important.
> > Unfortunately, like with video games, you have programmers coming up with the
> > interfaces and aesthetics and creative concepts, even the stories, and
> > ultimately they dont work and feel clunky and poorly designed. Sometimes
> > they're great at programming it and getting it all working, but often they're
> > not so good at the actual design. I think this was a good beta release but it
> > could be a LOT better. I expect more from Microsoft as a Microsoft customer
> > that practically lives out of my windows based laptop running WLMessenger as
> > many people do. Messengers are not just products, they are a part of the
> > lives of more and more people. Of all the software programs people create,
> > messengers are probably one of the most widely used and most important in the
> > social culture of modern society. Designing the messenger properly is
> > important for not only the company who offers the service and their
> > businesses but for the user as well.
> >
> > While a lot of people are jumping ship to Apple, I really see the
> > inspiration and creativity that microsoft employees are not trying to put
> > into these products going forward. I see so much potential but things could
> > still be a lot better across the board.
> >

it is even more painful to run the new WLM 9 Beta on 1024 x 768!! I hope they
can come out with what you've suggested a better "space management" so that
it look sleek and efficient.... at least give us options

Can't imagine using it on the Netbooks which typically runs at 1024 x 600

"Nath5000" wrote:

> Yeah I agree about the space above the list window in 8.5. I was always
> annoyed by that and submitted feedback about that too but they never fixed
> it. Instead, they've developed a whole new version with a whole new layout
> and a whole new list of issues.
>
> "russedl" wrote:
>
> > I definitely agree with #1 below. It would be very nice if there were no
> > border. One thing I didn't like about how they did it in 8.5 was even when
> > the border was hidden, there was still about a quarter of an inch of "blank"
> > space above the window so I couldn't put the contact list all the way to the
> > top of my screen.
> >
> > The spacing issues you referred to do not bother me, but my resolution is
> > 1280 x 1024 so I can see why it might be bad for someone with a low res
> > monitor, but if you want to send a message to a specific person, it's much
> > faster to just type their name in the top search bar.
> >
> > I agree with #5 as well. If my favorites are offline, there's not really
> > any reason to list them there. Obviously, you still want to keep them in
> > their respective group below the Favorites.
> >
> > I agree with #10 - there is too much space on the left side of the display
> > pictures.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Nath5000" wrote:
> >
> > > To everyone else here: Please feel free to comment about what I've said. If
> > > its too much to read at least look over what I've bolded to get an idea of
> > > what I'm talking about and to see if you're on the same page as me.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'll point out a few of my suggestions as well as actual glitches I've
> > > encountered so far:
> > >
> > > Suggestions and considerations:
> > > 1) “Window Border� doesn’t go away? : Look at the new Zune software user
> > > interface, the standard windows border isn’t there and it’s probably one of
> > > the most aesthetically appealing user interfaces of any of the Microsoft
> > > programs ever released. Many other users, as well as myself, liked that the
> > > border disappeared in Messenger 8.5 when “Show the menu bar� was deselected.
> > > I believe that completely eliminating the standard windows border and top bar
> > > greatly improves the aesthetic experience of the program and saves room. The
> > > software needs to make better use of the space it takes up. I really believe
> > > that people will regard the inability to remove the windows border as a step
> > > backwards for the UI of Windows Live Messenger.
> > >
> > > 2) Vertical spacing of the entire interface is too much for smaller screens:
> > > When the designers were working on the new interface it doesnt seem like they
> > > really considered smaller screens. This is something I’ve noticed because I
> > > first downloaded it onto my laptop with a 1280x768 resolution screen. The UI
> > > is obviously not scalable but I wouldn’t even expect that anyway. What I
> > > didn’t expect is that the new version would make less use of the space that
> > > the program takes up than the previous version. The interface is spread out
> > > more vertically than in 8.5. Much less of my contact list is visible on the
> > > screen now because of these bigger fonts and increased spaces between
> > > sections and now more vertical scrolling required to actually visibly being
> > > able to see who is online. This brings me to my next consideration:
> > >
> > > 3) Groups category tab is annoyingly anchored and a waste of space for
> > > people who aren’t using it: Sounds like a good idea but, while anchoring the
> > > tab for it to the top of the list is a good way of exposing users to its
> > > existence, it’s really annoying for someone who has limited vertical screen
> > > space to work with. I wish I could turn it off or at least move it down to
> > > the bottom just above “Offline contacts�.
> > >
> > > 4) Category heading sizes are too big for small screens: The words “Groups�,
> > > “Favorites�, and Available� and so on all look nice but it would be nice to
> > > be able to scale them down smaller as well as the contacts fonts or spacing
> > > so that it doesn’t take up as much vertical space. Someone with a 30 inch
> > > screen will obviously want everything the biggest they can make it but at the
> > > small screen end of the spectrum it is annoying to have things spread out
> > > much more than they were in 8.5. As a result I feel forced to view the
> > > contacts by status and not by category because the category headings take up
> > > more space than before and vertically stretch out my list much longer than
> > > 8.5 did.
> > >
> > > 5) Favorites stay up when they’re offline: Great idea. Now the 2-3 people I
> > > talk to the most can be at the top of my list, but why do they stay up there
> > > when they’re offline? It’s unnecessary. We don’t need to see them at the top
> > > of the list when they’re offline. We should at least be able to turn this
> > > off. When they come online it would be nice for them to show up in the
> > > favorites area but when they log off they should go to the “offline contacts�
> > > category.
> > >
> > > 6) Hear your own signature sound upon log in: It would be nice to be able to
> > > hear your own signature sound when you sign on. I currently have a sound clip
> > > from the song “Wake me up when September ends� by Green Day. It’d be nice to
> > > hear it when I log in so that I’m reminded what it is. Plus, if I can’t
> > > stand hearing it every time I log on then the people on my contact list
> > > probably can’t either, so then it would probably feel like time to change it
> > > to a new sound. I think the way its set up now, I can sit at a friends laptop
> > > and put a fart sound and they'd never know that every time they log in, all
> > > of their friends hear him proclaim something that he isnt even aware of.
> > >
> > > 7) New transparent hover over popup doesn’t have “Live Spaces� content that
> > > the contact card did and the contact card is pushed into the back corner
> > > where nobody will end up seeing it: I agree that the contact card could’ve
> > > been improved but why didn’t you figure out how to improve it rather than
> > > shove the same old card one level deeper where nobody will see it. We can do
> > > everything you added in that transparent box (and more) by right clicking on
> > > the contact in the list, which is what everyone is used to doing anyway.
> > >
> > > 8) Your own display name at the top of the UI is cut off when the window is
> > > resized width wise by the (Available) word when there is plenty of room for
> > > it to move over to the right: I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but when you
> > > resize the window width wise the “(Away)� or “(Available)� message next to
> > > your own display name moves inwards and blocks out and covers over your own
> > > display name when there is a lot of space between the word “(Away)� and the
> > > right side of the window. Again, I think this is a poor use of space. See
> > > this again: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
> > >
> > > 9) “Do not show empty groups� option should be available: When nobody from
> > > my family category is online, why does that section even show up telling me
> > > to drag contacts to the group? Take a look at Yahoo messenger. Yahoo allows
> > > you to hide empty groups. This is another space waster. I was really
> > > surprised this wasnt changed for the new version.
> > >
> > > 10) In the actual chat windows, why are the display pictures spaced so far
> > > from the left side of the window? Again, this doesn’t seem like a good use of
> > > space. The new style is great but the old version seemed more compact. The
> > > spacing just seems a bit off and they seem to need to move over to the left a
> > > bit more.
> > >
> > > 11) The banner add on the bottom of the main list window should
> > > automatically center with the window. It’s annoying to resize the window
> > > vertically and have the banner stick to the left. It doesn’t seem appropriate
> > > for a tall thin messenger list window to not have it centered.
> > >
> > > 12) Xbox live and Zune friend list integration: Why aren’t you doing this?
> > > Man it seems like if Microsoft did a better job of interconnecting its
> > > different platforms it would be absolutely amazing. Heres an idea I’m coming
> > > up with as I’m writing this... Picture this: Next to one of my buddies normal
> > > display pictures on the main WLM contact list, right beside that or the small
> > > red orange or green dot how about seeing a Messenger man icon, a Zune icon
> > > and an Xbox 360 circle icon. The icons should only show up if that user is a
> > > member of those other services. THEN by clicking on that small icon it
> > > switches the line of their contact name to resemble their Xbox interface
> > > coloring with the Xbox gamerpic replacing the default WLM display picture and
> > > the current game they’re playing listed if they’re online on xbox live and a
> > > blank space if they are not currently on. Then clicking the Zune icon should
> > > do the same by replacing the display picture with the current Zune card image
> > > and showing current song if any otherwise a blank space. When in either the
> > > Zune view or the Xbox live view there should be a large shiny “card� button
> > > to the right of where the current song or current game is listed that you can
> > > hover over that brings up the users flash based Zune card or gamer card
> > > depending on the view you’re in (WLM/Zune/XboxLive view of that contact). The
> > > same Zune card that you can get in the Zune social (the one you can put on
> > > Facebook and other sites) where you can click around an animated interface
> > > and see recent and favorite songs and play small clips of them right in the
> > > card. In the Xbox view of the contacts line on the messenger list there
> > > should be a similar shiny card button that takes up a significant amount of
> > > the line next to the gamertag that you can hover over and see the person’s
> > > gamercard showing recent games and gamerscore as well as a small button that
> > > opens a form to send them a message on that service. Lastly if someone is
> > > online on WLM, online on Zune listening to a song and on xbox live playing a
> > > game all at the same time, the list should fade between the two or three
> > > different views of that contact as it appears on the messenger list maybe 5
> > > seconds each. This all would take up the same space that a current WLM user
> > > takes up right now and wouldn’t waste vertical space. Double clicking the
> > > users line should open its WLM chatbox by default, otherwise it would be
> > > annoying to have to wait until it’s in WLM view to message them.
> > >
> > > At the very least, those icons should be there and when you click them the
> > > xbox gamercard should pop up or the animated flash based zune card should pop
> > > up similar to how the transparent black box popus up now when you click on a
> > > users display image. I like the auto switching and fading contact line idea
> > > better though. Even though it's more complicated it shoves the zune and xbox
> > > networks right into the face of any WLM user who has a buddy that has zune or
> > > xbox live without requiring them to click on something (that they probably
> > > never will)
> > > Doesn’t this make sense from a marketing perspective too? Im talking about
> > > marketing other Microsoft products to the millions of WLM users who have
> > > never had a zune or an xbox because they haven’t even been exposed to those
> > > product platforms. Not only would this go above consumer expectations, but it
> > > would be exposing people on one platform to the fact that their contacts are
> > > participating in other platforms such as zune. This would be almost as good
> > > as the user going up to the person and telling them about zune. In this case
> > > it would be demonstrating to that a persons friends are using those other
> > > products and if it is appealing and all fits together nicely, the person who
> > > sees this on their list might be compelled to look more into Zune or Xbox
> > > since their friends are almost actively demonstrating their usage to them. If
> > > you could bring these services together and then tie it to Zune you can get
> > > great exposure of these different products across all platforms.
> > >
> > > Just as a side note (unrelated to messenger) Zune should have its own 3d
> > > blade/section on the new Xbox live fall 2008 interface too, if it doesn’t
> > > already. It should have a UI that resembles a mix between the PC Zune 3.0
> > > visualizer interface (with the cool artist images) and the Zune handheld
> > > style sliding interface which is more suited for a controller. This should be
> > > the 360s audio and video players, not the current offerings. When you want to
> > > play your own music in a game it should be opened through a Zune tab. Why
> > > not? There are tons of people who have live who are iPod users. By doing that
> > > you make them Zune users whether they want to be or not and shows them the
> > > quality of the Zune platform. Anyways, I guess that’s a rant for another blog
> > > somewhere where there’s a separate team that has no collaboration
> > > (unfortunately) with this WLM team. Also I really hope that Zune is a section
> > > of the new windows mobile interface as well. Microsoft needs to pull
> > > everything together and then the different platforms can help the other ones
> > > grow. Microsoft is diversified which is good but there is not enough
> > > integration. This shouldn’t be something I am asking for. This should be
> > > something Microsoft has already done. It’d probably be better money spent
> > > developing these things then doing poorly written Gates and Seinfeld
> > > commercials plus this will actually help actually increase business and
> > > exposure of Microsoft’s other platforms.
> > >
> > > That’s all I can think of now but I feel like I’m missing a few other things
> > > As far as glitches, I’ve experienced some of those also, but I’m assuming
> > > that these are the things the WLM team is already aware of
> > >
> > > - Can’t leave the group I made and every time I try it creates a new group
> > > with the same name. Now I’m up to 12 of the same group that I can’t remove
> > > from the list because it can’t contact a server or something. I don’t know
> > > but it’s annoying.
> > >
> > > - The only tab icon that shows up is the windows live today. I can’t see
> > > the good old Xbox tab which I always rely on to check who is online on Xbox
> > > live.
> > >
> > > Downloading this and looking through it has given me a lot of ideas. At
> > > first I wasn't sure if I liked it but now I'm starting to warm up to it.
> > > There are a LOT of great new ideas in here that I was really impressed with
> > > but I’m not going to praise all of them here. At first glance the standard
> > > main list background of bright blue was blindingly bright when I first opened
> > > the program but after figuring out how to upload a high contrast image of a
> > > sunset that I had it feels much more like the Zune 3.0 interface and a big
> > > step up from even the standard color options. Here’s what it looks like on
> > > mine: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/...cbc2afcd_o.jpg
> > >
> > > It says “I’m Nathan� but Nathan is cut short to Nath… because away covers
> > > over it even though there is plenty of room for “(Away)� to move over to the
> > > right. (consideration 8 above)
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm the kind of person who always thinks about how things could be better.
> > > This program really made me think of a TON of things but I think they’re all
> > > noteworthy and I really honestly believe that the program could be MUCH
> > > better. It seems like Microsoft likes coming out with new versions of
> > > programs with their own set of issues instead of looking at what could be
> > > perfected or improved upon in the older platform. This release seems like a
> > > good example. I know this is a beta, which means that we’re way beyond the
> > > design phase unfortunately but I think these suggestions I have are worth
> > > listening to for future consideration. I think many people would agree with
> > > me as well. I dont think my considerations were unreasonable.
> > >
> > > Who am I? I'm just a business undergrad who is just about to graduate with a
> > > Bachelor of Commerce degree with a specialization in marketing and a minor in
> > > applied IT and a minor in philosophy . As far as the aspect of marketing that
> > > involves product design or advertising or any of those types of things where
> > > presentation and function is important, I'm a BIG believer in the importance
> > > of good aesthetic appeal and extremely efficient functional design. I believe
> > > form and function of a piece of software are both critically important.
> > > Unfortunately, like with video games, you have programmers coming up with the
> > > interfaces and aesthetics and creative concepts, even the stories, and
> > > ultimately they dont work and feel clunky and poorly designed. Sometimes
> > > they're great at programming it and getting it all working, but often they're
> > > not so good at the actual design. I think this was a good beta release but it
> > > could be a LOT better. I expect more from Microsoft as a Microsoft customer
> > > that practically lives out of my windows based laptop running WLMessenger as
> > > many people do. Messengers are not just products, they are a part of the
> > > lives of more and more people. Of all the software programs people create,
> > > messengers are probably one of the most widely used and most important in the
> > > social culture of modern society. Designing the messenger properly is
> > > important for not only the company who offers the service and their
> > > businesses but for the user as well.
> > >
> > > While a lot of people are jumping ship to Apple, I really see the
> > > inspiration and creativity that microsoft employees are not trying to put
> > > into these products going forward. I see so much potential but things could
> > > still be a lot better across the board.
> > >

Ok it's been a couple of days now since I first installed the beta. Right now
I'm uninstalling it. Here's the reason I uninstalled the beta and will never
download this version of the beta again. This is beside all of the other
reasons I listed befoe which were annoying but tolerable.

Today I tried to make a video call with a friend. My camera was coming up
mirrored, even though it was not mirrored in the "audio/video setup". I was
really frustrated because I usually can click "Tools" then "Webcam settings"
to adjust the brightness of the cam and other things such as the checkbox for
mirror mode which is off by default. For some reason the new version mirrors
my cam and I cannot open audio video setup at the same time to get to the
settings. THe "webcam settings" in the tools menu bar is completely gone.
This is the last straw for me. At this point I've come to the conclusion that
this program was made by a bunch of amateurs who have no idea what they're
doing. Did they actually do any usability studies, or were they too busy
trying to make green red and orange glow animations for the display pictures
which are spaced horribly in the chat windows. I dont get it. This version is
a step backwards in every way possible. It feels like a bunch of undergrad
computer science majors were given a class project to give Messenger a
makeover. If I was their professor I would give them a D.

I expect more from Microsoft. Despite everyone bashing windows vista, I've
never had any problems myself, but the quality of this new messenger beta is
horrid and I'm not just talking about pre-release glitches. The entire design
is bad and the glitches are just the expired icing on a cake made with rotten
eggs. Back to 8.5 (which wasnt perfect either but was light years beyond this
one).