do I have it right?

Discussion in 'Windows Vista Installation' started by unomas, Apr 6, 2009.

  1. unomas

    unomas Guest

    my stepdaughter's laptop's hd crashed (unusable), she of course lost the
    system disc. I have my laptop and system disc, both laptops are gateway
    but different models 6752 and 6836.

    I have a new hd on order, and I will install vista with my disc and her
    windows product key (her laptop) I shouldn't have any problem with that
    right?

    thanks


    --
    unomas
     
    unomas, Apr 6, 2009
    #1
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  2. unomas

    MeJasonX Guest

    No there shouldn't be any problem with that...
    The product key isn't linked too the cd in anyway so it will be
    alright(unless it is in a new feature I haven't heard about :p)


    --
    MeJasonX
     
    MeJasonX, Apr 6, 2009
    #2
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  3. unomas

    Mike Torello Guest

    unomas <> wrote:

    >
    >my stepdaughter's laptop's hd crashed (unusable), she of course lost the
    >system disc. I have my laptop and system disc, both laptops are gateway
    >but different models 6752 and 6836.
    >
    >I have a new hd on order, and I will install vista with my disc and her
    >windows product key (her laptop) I shouldn't have any problem with that
    >right?


    Is your disc a "recovery' disc or an actual system disc? If it's a
    recovery disc, you may very well have problems.
     
    Mike Torello, Apr 6, 2009
    #3
  4. If you ordered it thru Gateway under warranty then the new replacement drive
    will have the recovery partition on it. All you will have to do is a recovery
    from the HD and not the media disks. Make it a great day.
    --
    Computer/Software Tech.


    Charles Richmond
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/



    "unomas" wrote:

    >
    > my stepdaughter's laptop's hd crashed (unusable), she of course lost the
    > system disc. I have my laptop and system disc, both laptops are gateway
    > but different models 6752 and 6836.
    >
    > I have a new hd on order, and I will install vista with my disc and her
    > windows product key (her laptop) I shouldn't have any problem with that
    > right?
    >
    > thanks
    >
    >
    > --
    > unomas
    >
     
    THE C. [MS MVP], Apr 6, 2009
    #4
  5. unomas

    Malke Guest

    THE C. [MS MVP] wrote:

    > If you ordered it thru Gateway under warranty then the new replacement
    > drive will have the recovery partition on it. All you will have to do is a
    > recovery from the HD and not the media disks. Make it a great day.


    This is incorrect. The new drive if ordered from Gateway will *not* have the
    recovery partition on it. The OP should order recovery media from Gateway
    for the specific model laptop.

    Malke
    --
    MS-MVP
    Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
     
    Malke, Apr 6, 2009
    #5
  6. unomas

    Malke Guest

    unomas wrote:

    >
    > my stepdaughter's laptop's hd crashed (unusable), she of course lost the
    > system disc. I have my laptop and system disc, both laptops are gateway
    > but different models 6752 and 6836.
    >
    > I have a new hd on order, and I will install vista with my disc and her
    > windows product key (her laptop) I shouldn't have any problem with that
    > right?


    As Mr. Torello pointed out, if you have a recovery disk (not a true Vista
    installation DVD) from Gateway, it will not be a good idea to use it on a
    different model machine. It may not even work. In that case, the best
    solution is to order replacement recovery media from Gateway for your
    stepdaughter's laptop. These recovery sets are usually very inexpensive,
    around $20. All the Gateway laptops I've seen running Vista have got
    recovery media and not the true operating system installation disk.

    If you have a real Vista installation DVD (not a recovery disk), then you
    can install using the Product Key on the bottom of her laptop. You'll still
    need to install all the Gateway drivers afterwards.

    Malke
    --
    MS-MVP
    Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
     
    Malke, Apr 6, 2009
    #6
  7. unomas

    unomas Guest

    thanks for the replies guys! I am home now and I am looking right at
    the disc. it says it is "Operating System disc, windows vista home
    premium 64/32 bit with sp1"

    since her system crashed, I first tried to recovery it using the
    recovery info on the partition gateway set up on the hd, problem was the
    drive was done and both the recovery partition and main drive became
    corrupted, that's why I need the actually system disc.

    So, are you guys saying since this is a system disc I will have to
    install vista, then update my drivers from gateways website? If so,
    that is completely fine.

    Again thanks


    --
    unomas
     
    unomas, Apr 6, 2009
    #7
  8. unomas

    Malke Guest

    unomas wrote:

    >
    > thanks for the replies guys! I am home now and I am looking right at
    > the disc. it says it is "Operating System disc, windows vista home
    > premium 64/32 bit with sp1"
    >
    > since her system crashed, I first tried to recovery it using the
    > recovery info on the partition gateway set up on the hd, problem was the
    > drive was done and both the recovery partition and main drive became
    > corrupted, that's why I need the actually system disc.
    >
    > So, are you guys saying since this is a system disc I will have to
    > install vista, then update my drivers from gateways website? If so,
    > that is completely fine.


    Yes, if it is a true operating system disk and not a recovery image you will
    install as usual. Enter the Product Key from the bottom of her laptop. Get
    all the Gateway drivers and laptop-related software from their site. Make
    sure you also apply Service Pack 1 if the original disk doesn't have it and
    all subsequent Windows Updates.

    Malke
    --
    MS-MVP
    Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
     
    Malke, Apr 6, 2009
    #8
  9. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Unomas--

    It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as I
    can.

    If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name them
    recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
    are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for actual
    efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated for years.

    That's why with Windows 7, after years and years and years of bitter
    complaints, MSFT has recognized this to a degree by allowing a repair
    mechanism to be instrinsic or native to the OS.

    However, you always have more tools if you have the Vista and soon Windows 7
    DVD. Besides the repair mechanisms available from the DVD including the
    powerful bootrec switches, you can also do a repair install or inplace
    upgrade (same thing) if you have the genuine OS (not recovery disc) DVD.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392

    Generally, using 3 bootrec switches alone will repair a software problem in
    the Windows Vista or Windows 7 OS.

    bootrec /fixmbr
    bootrec /fixboot
    bootrec /rebuildbcd

    /FixBoot
    The /FixBoot option writes a new boot sector to the system partition by
    using a boot sector that is compatible with Windows Vista. Use this option
    if one of the following conditions is true:

    • The boot sector has been replaced with a non-standard Windows Vista boot
    sector.
    • The boot sector is damaged.
    • An earlier Windows operating system has been installed after Windows Vista
    was installed. In this scenario, the computer starts by using Windows NT
    Loader (NTLDR) instead of Windows Boot Manager (Bootmgr.exe).

    /FixMbr
    The /FixMbr option writes a Windows Vista-compatible MBR to the system
    partition. This option does not overwrite the existing partition table. Use
    this option when you must resolve MBR corruption issues, or when you have to
    remove non-standard code from the MBR.

    /RebuildBcd
    The /RebuildBcd option scans all disks for installations that are compatible
    with Windows Vista. Additionally, this option lets you select the
    installations that you want to add to the BCD store. Use this option when
    you must completely rebuild the BCD.

    Good luck,

    CH



    "unomas" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > thanks for the replies guys! I am home now and I am looking right at
    > the disc. it says it is "Operating System disc, windows vista home
    > premium 64/32 bit with sp1"
    >
    > since her system crashed, I first tried to recovery it using the
    > recovery info on the partition gateway set up on the hd, problem was the
    > drive was done and both the recovery partition and main drive became
    > corrupted, that's why I need the actually system disc.
    >
    > So, are you guys saying since this is a system disc I will have to
    > install vista, then update my drivers from gateways website? If so,
    > that is completely fine.
    >
    > Again thanks
    >
    >
    > --
    > unomas
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 6, 2009
    #9
  10. unomas

    Malke Guest

    Chad Harris wrote:

    > Unomas--
    >
    > It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
    > I can.
    >
    > If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    > often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    > known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    > them
    > recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
    > are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    > actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated for
    > years.


    (snip)

    This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

    Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

    Malke
    --
    MS-MVP
    Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
     
    Malke, Apr 6, 2009
    #10
  11. unomas

    Curious Guest

    I think there is confusion here between OEM Vendor supplied restore to
    factory shipping configuration "Recovery Disk(s)" which would be better off
    being called Restore or Rebuild disks and a "Recovery disk" available for
    the OS which might better off being called a Repair Disk.

    The following links may help in sorting out the confusion.

    http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,71039/description.html

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options-51027.shtml

    "Malke" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Chad Harris wrote:
    >
    >> Unomas--
    >>
    >> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
    >> I can.
    >>
    >> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    >> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >> them
    >> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
    >> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >> for
    >> years.

    >
    > (snip)
    >
    > This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    > hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    > computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    > issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >
    > Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >
    > Malke
    > --
    > MS-MVP
    > Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    > http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >
     
    Curious, Apr 6, 2009
    #11
  12. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Malke chimed in--

    "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

    It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people I've
    helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually like to
    see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the settings
    and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP groups, and
    on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces of crap and
    not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get XP, Vista, or
    Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings intact.

    Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to make
    a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless (except
    for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being offered.
    Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up repair in
    Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near their
    expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing of people
    who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then can't fix
    Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM partners not to
    ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they will ship a Vista
    DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the Round Rockers of
    this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD from Roundrock Dell.

    It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only difference
    is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have before to them
    native to the OS. This is in response to many of us saying to many at
    Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme crap, and the majority of
    times, they are worthless.

    Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of times.

    The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well wheel
    that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

    You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and it
    is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

    CH

    "Malke" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Chad Harris wrote:
    >
    >> Unomas--
    >>
    >> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
    >> I can.
    >>
    >> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    >> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >> them
    >> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
    >> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >> for
    >> years.

    >
    > (snip)
    >
    > This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    > hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    > computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    > issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >
    > Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >
    > Malke
    > --
    > MS-MVP
    > Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    > http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 7, 2009
    #12
  13. What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same page
    here.

    There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
    TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
    come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

    --

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience



    "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Malke chimed in--
    >
    > "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    > hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    > computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    > issues and the correct recovery disks are used."
    >
    > It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people I've
    > helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually like
    > to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
    > settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
    > groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
    > of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
    > XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
    > intact.
    >
    > Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
    > make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
    > (except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
    > offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
    > repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near their
    > expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing of
    > people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then can't
    > fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM partners not
    > to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they will ship a
    > Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the Round
    > Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD from
    > Roundrock Dell.
    >
    > It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only difference
    > is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have before to them
    > native to the OS. This is in response to many of us saying to many at
    > Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme crap, and the majority
    > of times, they are worthless.
    >
    > Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    > teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
    > times.
    >
    > The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well wheel
    > that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."
    >
    > You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
    > it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    > important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    > efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.
    >
    > CH
    >
    > "Malke" <> wrote in message
    > news:#...
    >> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>
    >>> Unomas--
    >>>
    >>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>> as
    >>> I can.
    >>>
    >>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    >>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>> them
    >>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>> you
    >>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>> for
    >>> years.

    >>
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>
    >> Malke
    >> --
    >> MS-MVP
    >> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>
     
    Richard Urban, Apr 7, 2009
    #13
  14. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    The bottom line is that you need the code on the OS on a disc to maximize
    your options of repairing Vista. Perhaps with some cosmic justification
    along have come the torrents, and now if little Suzie at Iowa State
    complains to you that her OEM recovery disc does not work, and she did not
    back up in anyway what so ever, and she has a take home final that means her
    grade in the course, you can get little Suzie fixed. In my experience
    Little Suzie cannot run around on a deadline procuring said DVD, and doesn't
    have $300 bucks or so to purchase one. But little Suzie can be empowered to
    fix her OS successfully, and go on to complete her final exam, via a
    phenomenon called a "torrent" where with a couple mouse clicks little Suzie
    can procure a Vista Ultimate, easily burn it to an iso with a free and
    formidiable burning program, and live relatively happily ever after
    goshdarnit.

    Little Suzie can see the torrent from where she sits, goshdarnit.

    According to the aforementioned links by Curious, MSFT did not "do the
    right thing" during Vista according to PC World's editor. A lot of people
    didn't buy Vista. Now they're spending hundreds of millions with a new ad
    campaign dubbed "recessionista chic with ole Lauren, who is lookin' for a
    laptop on a budget."

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/165113.asp

    In this particular link you proffered, it seems that it is not MSFT that
    offered the disc but Neosmart, because MSFT withdrew their offer of anything
    on a disc viable that fixesVista without the purchase of a genuine Vista
    DVD. There have of course always been the F8 Windows Advanced Options menu
    and most of us make that available when we suggest fixes.

    http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,71039/description.html

    "Editor's Review of Vista Recovery Disc

    It looked like Microsoft was finally going to do the right thing. Beta
    versions of Vista SP1 came with a modern equivalent of the old Windows Boot
    Floppy--a Start Menu option called "Create a Recovery Disc" that burned a
    Windows PE-based emergency CD. Alas, Microsoft removed that feature before
    SP1 shipped, but not before NeoSmart turned the disc into an .iso file and
    made it available on their site.

    Running on the Vista version of Windows PE, the Recovery Disc is basically a
    Vista installation disc minus the install files. It even has an "Install
    now" button that asks for a Product Key before failing. You're better off
    clicking the Repair your computer button. Among its Vista-only options are a
    tool for diagnosing and fixing startup problems, a version of System Restore
    that uses restore points on the hard drive, the restore portions of Vista's
    backup program, and a memory diagnostic tool.


    Note: This link takes you to an external Web site, where you can download
    the latest version of the software.

    --Lincoln Spector

    Your second link references the Windows Advanced Options menu which is of
    course, not a disc, has always been available, and in thousands of fixes,
    works less well with less efficacy although it can be helpful, particularly
    if the user increases their odds of success by trying all of the Safe Modes
    their plus Last Known Good Configuration.

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options-51027.shtml

    CH

    "Curious" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I think there is confusion here between OEM Vendor supplied restore to
    > factory shipping configuration "Recovery Disk(s)" which would be better
    > off being called Restore or Rebuild disks and a "Recovery disk" available
    > for the OS which might better off being called a Repair Disk.
    >
    > The following links may help in sorting out the confusion.
    >
    > http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,71039/description.html
    >
    > http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options-51027.shtml
    >
    > "Malke" <> wrote in message
    > news:#...
    >> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>
    >>> Unomas--
    >>>
    >>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>> as
    >>> I can.
    >>>
    >>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    >>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>> them
    >>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>> you
    >>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>> for
    >>> years.

    >>
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>
    >> Malke
    >> --
    >> MS-MVP
    >> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 7, 2009
    #14
  15. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Richard--

    I tried to make the point by quoting Curious's links. Again, the maximal
    chances to fix a no boot Vista or a number of broken components that would
    move many rational people to consider formatting the box is an OPERATING
    SYSTEM DISC.

    I've made it many times. I'll make it again.

    Microsoft (who has made me smile tonight with the statement on Mary Jo
    Foley's site that they will "allow" Windows 7 users to downgrade it to
    Windows XP (who the hell would want to do that is a great question)

    [Microsoft will allow Windows 7 users to downgrade to XP
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2456]

    has entered into contracts for years with the OEM PC manufacturers with whom
    they are for hundreds of reasons we both understand intimately involved.
    Although Mac OS X+ can be made to run reasonably well on a PC with a
    modified X-86 kernel for Leopard, very few people do that relative to people
    who run the Windows OS when they choose to buy a pc on said pc. In a better
    world, I would like to see a choice for little Suzie end user to run Leopard
    or Windows 7, 8, 9, 10 and on on her pc but I don't expect to see that soon.

    Your efficacy or success at repairing either

    a) a no boot Vista that won't boot because of a software cause (not a pure
    hardware cause and a significant enough number of times the cause can be
    both from hardware and software reasons)

    b) A Vista with enough broken components to force anyone to think about
    formatting the box, or at least the drive said Vista is on.

    Both of these situations are best repaired if someone has a genuine
    Microsoft DVD purchased at a legitimate outlet. They are afforded the use
    of the Bootrec options as well as the full panoply of Startup Repair's
    options available from that DVD.

    This is true even if they follow the Win RE team's MSDN blog posted
    directions to put Win RE's features on their hard drive.

    How to install Windows RE on the hard disk
    http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx

    When I refer to a recovery disc, I refer to the relatively worthless and
    ineffectual discs that say HP ships with their OEM boxes. They rarely work
    in my experience.

    I pasted what in fact the links that Curious proffered said.

    Many people who are savvy enough and know they have paid hundreds if not
    thousands of dollars of hard earned money to buy a pc and did not receive a
    Vista DVD (last time I checked MSFT has launched a couple hundred million
    dollar plus ad campaign with "Lauren" among others to buy a pc and not a
    Mac). According to http://www.the record.com

    "To shoot the ads, Microsoft's agency, Crispin Porter + Bogusky, recruited
    unwitting subjects by posing as a market research firm studying laptop
    purchasing decisions.

    It picked 10 people who answered a call for volunteers on Craigslist and
    other websites and sent them out with a camera crew and budgets ranging from
    US$700 to $2,000. If they found a computer that fit their criteria, they
    could keep it.

    In the first 60-second spot, a red-haired recent college grad named Lauren
    is on the hunt for a speedy laptop with a 17-inch screen and a "comfortable"
    keyboard, all for less than $1,000. She strides into an Apple store; then,
    the scene jumps to her walking out empty-handed, telling the camera that the
    only laptop in her price range has a 13-inch screen.

    Back in the car, she sighs and says, "I'm just not cool enough to be a Mac
    person."

    An end user's chance to fix their no boot or systemically broken OS whether
    it is XP, Vista, or Windows 7, is to procure a genuine OS DVD rather than a
    "recovery disc" of any sort.

    Dell recognized this when they promised on their Direct to Dell site to ship
    one with any new Dell PC after Vista RTM'd to the public.

    http://direct2dell.org/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx

    "Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
    reinstallation CD when they need it. When ordering a new machine, all
    consumers and corporate customers can opt for the Windows CD for around $10.
    Additionally, since July 2004, most new PCs (Dell gaming systems all ship
    with the OS CD)come pre-loaded with a disk partition that contains PC
    Restore, an applcation that allows users to reinstall system software
    quickly. See these instructions for how to use PC Restore to reinstall the
    operating system and Dell factory-installed applications in about 10
    minutes.

    Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
    for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
    the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
    the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
    the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
    and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
    system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
    Asia, things are unchanged-we've always shipped OS discs with systems
    there."


    CH

    "Richard Urban" <> wrote in message
    news:OKz$...
    > What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
    > page here.
    >
    > There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
    > TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
    > come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    >
    > "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Malke chimed in--
    >>
    >> "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used."
    >>
    >> It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
    >> I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
    >> like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
    >> settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
    >> groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
    >> of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
    >> XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
    >> intact.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
    >> make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
    >> (except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
    >> offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
    >> repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
    >> their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
    >> of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
    >> can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
    >> partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
    >> will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
    >> Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
    >> from Roundrock Dell.
    >>
    >> It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
    >> difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
    >> before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
    >> saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
    >> crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.
    >>
    >> Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    >> teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
    >> times.
    >>
    >> The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
    >> wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."
    >>
    >> You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
    >> it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    >> important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    >> efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.
    >>
    >> CH
    >>
    >> "Malke" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Unomas--
    >>>>
    >>>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>>> as
    >>>> I can.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
    >>>> are
    >>>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>>> them
    >>>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>>> you
    >>>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>>> for
    >>>> years.
    >>>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >>> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
    >>> of
    >>> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >>> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>>
    >>> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>>
    >>> Malke
    >>> --
    >>> MS-MVP
    >>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >>> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>>
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 7, 2009
    #15
  16. Sorry Malke. Didn't mean to reply to you - but you knew that already! (-:

    --

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience


    "Richard Urban" <> wrote in message
    news:OKz$...
    > What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
    > page here.
    >
    > There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
    > TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
    > come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    >
    > "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Malke chimed in--
    >>
    >> "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used."
    >>
    >> It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
    >> I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
    >> like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
    >> settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
    >> groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
    >> of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
    >> XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
    >> intact.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
    >> make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
    >> (except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
    >> offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
    >> repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
    >> their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
    >> of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
    >> can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
    >> partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
    >> will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
    >> Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
    >> from Roundrock Dell.
    >>
    >> It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
    >> difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
    >> before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
    >> saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
    >> crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.
    >>
    >> Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    >> teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
    >> times.
    >>
    >> The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
    >> wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."
    >>
    >> You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
    >> it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    >> important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    >> efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.
    >>
    >> CH
    >>
    >> "Malke" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Unomas--
    >>>>
    >>>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>>> as
    >>>> I can.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
    >>>> are
    >>>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>>> them
    >>>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>>> you
    >>>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>>> for
    >>>> years.
    >>>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >>> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
    >>> of
    >>> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >>> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>>
    >>> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>>
    >>> Malke
    >>> --
    >>> MS-MVP
    >>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >>> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>>
     
    Richard Urban, Apr 7, 2009
    #16
  17. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Richard--

    Again I was very explicit. I've been referring to OEM recovery discs which
    is made clear when I talk about recovery discs from 300 OEM partners (I'm
    not sure how more explicit I could be). This point of view was advanced at
    Redmond and imposed on the OEM partners by the OEM VP who in the recent past
    was Scott Di Valerio, (MSFT 11/05-10/07) who is no longer with MSFT, as of
    10/07.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/scottdiv/default.mspx

    Currently that position is held by Steve Guggenheimer.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/guggenheimer/

    I have had Acronis for years, and although it is a decent program, the web
    is full of experienced Acronis TI users who can't reproduce the images and
    backups from the .tibs they thought they made from Acronis' proprietary
    compression folders as well as a number of permutations and combinations of
    other problems just as they have trouble recovering with Vista Backups and
    One Care backups as well.

    The most effective backup by far is to backup/burn the actual files or
    folders to a DVD. Even backups to external HDs can be corrupted on
    occasion. When they do that, they aren't encumbered and sometimes defeated
    by Acronis' .tib or compression convention which is the Acronis True Image
    Disc Image.

    My point again was that for years MSFT and the OEMs have partnered to make
    certain that the OS CD (and with Vista and Windows 7 it is now a DVD) *were
    not shipped with a new PC. My point was also that in Windows 7, there has
    been come concession to this by making some of the Win RE components
    available on the HD when the OS is installed, although not the full panoply
    they get on the Win 7 DVD.

    Like all of us who try to help here, I want these end users to have the
    maximal chance of recovery of their OS files, folders, programs and settings
    so that they can get on with their work or play using their boxes.

    Best,

    CH

    "Richard Urban" <> wrote in message
    news:OKz$...
    > What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
    > page here.
    >
    > There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
    > TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
    > come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    >
    > "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Malke chimed in--
    >>
    >> "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used."
    >>
    >> It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
    >> I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
    >> like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
    >> settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
    >> groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
    >> of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
    >> XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
    >> intact.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
    >> make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
    >> (except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
    >> offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
    >> repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
    >> their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
    >> of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
    >> can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
    >> partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
    >> will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
    >> Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
    >> from Roundrock Dell.
    >>
    >> It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
    >> difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
    >> before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
    >> saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
    >> crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.
    >>
    >> Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    >> teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
    >> times.
    >>
    >> The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
    >> wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."
    >>
    >> You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
    >> it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    >> important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    >> efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.
    >>
    >> CH
    >>
    >> "Malke" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Unomas--
    >>>>
    >>>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>>> as
    >>>> I can.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
    >>>> are
    >>>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>>> them
    >>>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>>> you
    >>>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>>> for
    >>>> years.
    >>>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >>> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
    >>> of
    >>> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >>> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>>
    >>> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>>
    >>> Malke
    >>> --
    >>> MS-MVP
    >>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >>> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>>
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 9, 2009
    #17
  18. unomas

    unomas Guest

    CH- thanks for all that info. AS a follow up to my situation, she found
    her os disc. So, I loaded vista up no problem ran through the 100 or so
    updates and gave it back to her, so she could load whatever it is she
    needs (instant messenger...etc)
    thanks again


    --
    unomas
     
    unomas, Apr 10, 2009
    #18
  19. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Richard--

    This makes the problem of the best recovery disc moot, since MSFT is
    providing the way to make a Startup Repair or Recovery Disc since Vista SP1
    although it's not often discussed here or well advertised by MSFT, nor is it
    in Vista Help, on the same MSFT Vista Help site,, or anywhere in a search
    of the MSKBs at the http://support.microsoft.com website at this moment.

    What you might not have realized (I haven't seen you post on it in years),
    is that the argument about OEM recovery discs versus a Windows Vista or
    Windows 7 soon DVD has been rendered completely moot because anyone can make
    a disc for free with all of the Startup Repair Options from Microsoft if
    they don't have a DVD, and when in most cases in my experience the recovery
    discs don't work. BTW, as recently as 4/11/09 there is a post where the
    recovery disc did not work, and there are hundreds of posts stating the same
    thing on this group and the Vista general group and there will be hundreds
    more in the future. This is the solution:

    **How to Make Vista Recovery Disc from MSFT with Startup Repair When You
    Don't Have a Vista DVD from a PC with Windows Vista SP1 or Newer**:

    [Note: This comes from Microsoft. It is available in Vista with Service
    Pack 1 or Service Pack 2 and in Windows 7 when released. This gives you the
    same Startup Repair Options from Microsoft *Legally* that you would get on
    by purchasing a new Vista (or when it RTMs Windows 7 DVD]:

    1) It's best to make this "recovery disc" which gives you access to
    Vista/Win 7's Startup Repair when Vista or Windows 7 is running well, and
    you aren't in trouble. But when many of you read this, you will be in
    trouble and this is the way to get out. This will help you access Startup
    Repair to repair a Won't Boot Vista or Windows 7 when the cause is a
    software cause without a hardware component in the equation and this
    includes a corrupt driver.

    You can do this on a computer running Windows Vista SP1, Windows Vista SP2,
    or Windows 7. Click Start>Programs>Maintenance>Create a System Repair Disc
    or simply type "maintenance" into the search box above the Start button.

    2) If you have a Vista or Windows 7 Won't Boot situation, and you didn't
    make this disc in advance--no problem. Either use another pc with Vista SP1
    or Newer or borrow a friend's and follow the directions in #1 above.

    3) If your friend has an operating system prior to Vista SP1, but has an
    internet connection on a device that can download files (a computer is
    best), simply download the .iso from Neowin's site, burn the .iso,and you
    will have a Vista or Windows 7 Recovery disc with the full panoply of
    repair options, including the "bootrec switches" from the command prompt
    there.

    This is a screenshot of the two ways to do this:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16

    This is the link from Neosmart's website to download and burn the .iso that
    allows you to do the same thing as the Maintenance listing on the Vista SP1
    and later Programs menu.

    Windows Vista Recovery Disc (Vista Startup Repair .iso Download)
    http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

    Anyone concerned with the legality should not be. This is an option that
    Microsoft wisely elected to put into its operating system with Vista Service
    Pack 1, and included in Service Pack 2 and Windows 7.

    Unfortunately, as of 4/11/09 Microsoft has written nothing in Windows Vista
    Help about this option, and it is a great feature that is not well known.
    They have a decent explanation of Startup Repair, but no mention as to how
    to access it if you don't have a Vista DVD as shown at this link:

    http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx

    This solves the problem of the 300 + OEM partners and Microsoft not
    shipping a Vista DVD with the purchase of a new computer. This has long
    been needed, and MSFT should be commended for making it available. I
    haven't seen it mentioned on any of the MSFT newsgroups, though it might
    have been but I have seen the complaint hundreds if not thousands of times
    in the last several years including on the XP groups that the person stuck
    with an XP or a Vista Won't boot blue screen does not have an XP or Vista
    DVD. This remedies that problem.

    In addition, as a second choice (I would definitely try this first), you can
    use the F8 key to boot to the Windows Advanced Options menu and try those to
    access System Restore from the Safe Mode options there, or Last Known Good
    Configuration. Startup Repair and the Boot Rec switches are a considerable
    improvement as to efficacy over the F8 (Windows Advanced) options and the
    now retired Recovery Console.

    F8 Key Reaches the Windows Advanced Options Menu (One might work when
    another does not):
    http://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/windows-safe-mode.png

    Should you choose to use Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you'll need to type
    the command for System Restore which is:

    At the command prompt, type %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe, and
    then press ENTER.

    Good luck,

    CH





    "Richard Urban" <> wrote in message
    news:OKz$...
    > What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
    > page here.
    >
    > There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
    > TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
    > come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    >
    > "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Malke chimed in--
    >>
    >> "This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    >> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >> issues and the correct recovery disks are used."
    >>
    >> It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
    >> I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
    >> like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
    >> settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
    >> groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
    >> of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
    >> XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
    >> intact.
    >>
    >> Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
    >> make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
    >> (except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
    >> offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
    >> repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
    >> their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
    >> of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
    >> can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
    >> partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
    >> will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
    >> Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
    >> from Roundrock Dell.
    >>
    >> It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
    >> difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
    >> before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
    >> saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
    >> crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.
    >>
    >> Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
    >> teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
    >> times.
    >>
    >> The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
    >> wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."
    >>
    >> You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
    >> it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
    >> important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
    >> efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.
    >>
    >> CH
    >>
    >> "Malke" <> wrote in message
    >> news:#...
    >>> Chad Harris wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Unomas--
    >>>>
    >>>> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
    >>>> as
    >>>> I can.
    >>>>
    >>>> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
    >>>> are
    >>>> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >>>> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >>>> them
    >>>> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
    >>>> you
    >>>> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >>>> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >>>> for
    >>>> years.
    >>>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    >>> hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
    >>> of
    >>> computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    >>> issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >>>
    >>> Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >>>
    >>> Malke
    >>> --
    >>> MS-MVP
    >>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    >>> http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >>>
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 12, 2009
    #19
  20. unomas

    Chad Harris Guest

    Malke--

    What you might not have realized (I haven't seen you post on it in years),
    is that the argument about OEM recovery discs versus a Windows Vista or
    Windows 7 soon DVD has been rendered completely moot because anyone can make
    a disc for free with all of the Startup Repair Options from Microsoft if
    they don't have a DVD, and when in most cases in my experience the recovery
    discs don't work. BTW, as recently as 4/11/09 there is a post where the
    recovery disc did not work, and there are hundreds of posts stating the same
    thing on this group and the Vista general group and there will be hundreds
    more in the future. This is the solution:

    **How to Make Vista Recovery Disc from MSFT with Startup Repair When You
    Don't Have a Vista DVD from a PC with Windows Vista SP1 or Newer**:

    [Note: This comes from Microsoft. It is available in Vista with Service
    Pack 1 or Service Pack 2 and in Windows 7 when released. This gives you the
    same Startup Repair Options from Microsoft *Legally* that you would get on
    by purchasing a new Vista (or when it RTMs Windows 7 DVD]:

    1) It's best to make this "recovery disc" which gives you access to
    Vista/Win 7's Startup Repair when Vista or Windows 7 is running well, and
    you aren't in trouble. But when many of you read this, you will be in
    trouble and this is the way to get out. This will help you access Startup
    Repair to repair a Won't Boot Vista or Windows 7 when the cause is a
    software cause without a hardware component in the equation and this
    includes a corrupt driver.

    You can do this on a computer running Windows Vista SP1, Windows Vista SP2,
    or Windows 7. Click Start>Programs>Maintenance>Create a System Repair Disc
    or simply type "maintenance" into the search box above the Start button.

    2) If you have a Vista or Windows 7 Won't Boot situation, and you didn't
    make this disc in advance--no problem. Either use another pc with Vista SP1
    or Newer or borrow a friend's and follow the directions in #1 above.

    3) If your friend has an operating system prior to Vista SP1, but has an
    internet connection on a device that can download files (a computer is
    best), simply download the .iso from Neowin's site, burn the .iso,and you
    will have a Vista or Windows 7 Recovery disc with the full panoply of
    repair options, including the "bootrec switches" from the command prompt
    there.

    This is a screenshot of the two ways to do this:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16

    This is the link from Neosmart's website to download and burn the .iso that
    allows you to do the same thing as the Maintenance listing on the Vista SP1
    and later Programs menu.

    Windows Vista Recovery Disc (Vista Startup Repair .iso Download)
    http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/

    Anyone concerned with the legality should not be. This is an option that
    Microsoft wisely elected to put into its operating system with Vista Service
    Pack 1, and included in Service Pack 2 and Windows 7.

    Unfortunately, as of 4/11/09 Microsoft has written nothing in Windows Vista
    Help about this option, and it is a great feature that is not well known.
    They have a decent explanation of Startup Repair, but no mention as to how
    to access it if you don't have a Vista DVD as shown at this link:

    http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx

    This solves the problem of the 300 + OEM partners and Microsoft not
    shipping a Vista DVD with the purchase of a new computer. This has long
    been needed, and MSFT should be commended for making it available. I
    haven't seen it mentioned on any of the MSFT newsgroups, though it might
    have been but I have seen the complaint hundreds if not thousands of times
    in the last several years including on the XP groups that the person stuck
    with an XP or a Vista Won't boot blue screen does not have an XP or Vista
    DVD. This remedies that problem.

    In addition, as a second choice (I would definitely try this first), you can
    use the F8 key to boot to the Windows Advanced Options menu and try those to
    access System Restore from the Safe Mode options there, or Last Known Good
    Configuration. Startup Repair and the Boot Rec switches are a considerable
    improvement as to efficacy over the F8 (Windows Advanced) options and the
    now retired Recovery Console.

    F8 Key Reaches the Windows Advanced Options Menu (One might work when
    another does not)
    http://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/windows-safe-mode.png

    Should you choose to use Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you'll need to type
    the command for System Restore which is:

    At the command prompt, type %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe, and
    then press ENTER.

    Good luck,

    CH







    "Malke" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Chad Harris wrote:
    >
    >> Unomas--
    >>
    >> It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
    >> I can.
    >>
    >> If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
    >> often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
    >> known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
    >> them
    >> recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
    >> are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
    >> actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
    >> for
    >> years.

    >
    > (snip)
    >
    > This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
    > hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
    > computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
    > issues and the correct recovery disks are used.
    >
    > Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.
    >
    > Malke
    > --
    > MS-MVP
    > Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
    > http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ
    >
     
    Chad Harris, Apr 12, 2009
    #20
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