Possible to get rid of without rebuilding everything?

Discussion in 'Active Directory' started by ed, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. ed

    ed Guest

    Hi all,

    Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    and servers are on the child domain.

    Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    is this possible without affecting our applications
    (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    empty root domain?

    Thank you!
    ed, Apr 7, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. You are stuck with the root domain forever. Root domain is no longer
    considered a best practice, the fewer domains the better.

    --
    Paul Bergson
    MVP - Directory Services
    MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
    MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
    2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
    Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

    http://www.pbbergs.com

    Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
    "ed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > and servers are on the child domain.
    >
    > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > empty root domain?
    >
    > Thank you!
    Paul Bergson [MVP-DS], Apr 7, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008

    Do a normal Domain Migration.

    Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.

    Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.

    The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
    use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
    Exchange.

    The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
    stretching it out too rediculasly long.

    Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
    the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
    time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
    the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.

    In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
    it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
    forced to do.


    --
    Phillip Windell

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------


    "ed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > and servers are on the child domain.
    >
    > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > empty root domain?
    >
    > Thank you!
    Phillip Windell, Apr 7, 2010
    #3
  4. ed

    ed Guest

    Thank you for your help.

    That's what I thought and that's the design that the consultant did for us
    years agao.

    If we need to get rid of the empty root, domain, that means we need to
    rebuild everything (servers and users etc...), right?



    "Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" wrote:

    > You are stuck with the root domain forever. Root domain is no longer
    > considered a best practice, the fewer domains the better.
    >
    > --
    > Paul Bergson
    > MVP - Directory Services
    > MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
    > MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
    > 2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
    > Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009
    >
    > http://www.pbbergs.com
    >
    > Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    > posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
    > "ed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > > and servers are on the child domain.
    > >
    > > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > > empty root domain?
    > >
    > > Thank you!

    >
    >
    > .
    >
    ed, Apr 7, 2010
    #4
  5. I would agree with Phillip and start over with a new domain and migrate, if
    you have the time and resources.

    --
    Paul Bergson
    MVP - Directory Services
    MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
    MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
    2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
    Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

    http://www.pbbergs.com

    Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
    "Phillip Windell" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
    >
    > Do a normal Domain Migration.
    >
    > Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
    >
    > Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
    >
    > The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
    > use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
    > Exchange.
    >
    > The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
    > stretching it out too rediculasly long.
    >
    > Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
    > the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take
    > you time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until
    > then the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything
    > yet.
    >
    > In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after
    > begining it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than
    > you are forced to do.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Phillip Windell
    >
    > The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
    > Microsoft,
    > or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    > "ed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    >> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    >> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    >> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    >> and servers are on the child domain.
    >>
    >> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    >> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    >> is this possible without affecting our applications
    >> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    >> empty root domain?
    >>
    >> Thank you!

    >
    >
    Paul Bergson [MVP-DS], Apr 7, 2010
    #5
  6. ed

    kj [SBS MVP] Guest

    The other option is to colapse the child into the root domain.
    Occasionaly an intraforest migration can be better than an interforest.

    How well do you like the root domain namespace?


    >Paul Bergson [MVP-DS] wrote:
    > I would agree with Phillip and start over with a new domain and
    > migrate, if you have the time and resources.
    >
    >
    > Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    > posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no
    > rights. "Phillip Windell" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
    >>
    >> Do a normal Domain Migration.
    >>
    >> Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
    >>
    >> Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
    >>
    >> The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to
    >> know to use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing
    >> Server Method for Exchange.
    >>
    >> The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
    >> stretching it out too rediculasly long.
    >>
    >> Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot
    >> after the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you
    >> can take you time with it up to the point just before you use
    >> Exmerge because until then the "swing server exchange" is not really
    >> being used for anything yet.
    >>
    >> In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after
    >> begining it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any
    >> longer than you are forced to do.
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Phillip Windell
    >>
    >> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
    >> Microsoft,
    >> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    >> -----------------------------------------------------
    >>
    >>
    >> "ed" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hi all,
    >>>
    >>> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    >>> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    >>> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    >>> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    >>> and servers are on the child domain.
    >>>
    >>> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    >>> DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    >>> is this possible without affecting our applications
    >>> (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    >>> empty root domain?
    >>>
    >>> Thank you!


    --
    /kj
    kj [SBS MVP], Apr 7, 2010
    #6
  7. ed

    ed Guest

    Thanks for your help.

    If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What about
    our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
    servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
    seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
    re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
    have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
    application we need to reinstall also.
    Definitely, we have downtime.

    I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.

    thank you.

    "Phillip Windell" wrote:

    > Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
    >
    > Do a normal Domain Migration.
    >
    > Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
    >
    > Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
    >
    > The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
    > use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
    > Exchange.
    >
    > The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
    > stretching it out too rediculasly long.
    >
    > Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
    > the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
    > time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
    > the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.
    >
    > In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
    > it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
    > forced to do.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Phillip Windell
    >
    > The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    > or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    > "ed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > > and servers are on the child domain.
    > >
    > > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > > empty root domain?
    > >
    > > Thank you!

    >
    >
    > .
    >
    ed, Apr 7, 2010
    #7
  8. ed

    ed Guest

    Thanks for your help.

    If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What about
    our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
    servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
    seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
    re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
    have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
    application we need to reinstall also.
    Definitely, we have downtime.

    I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.

    thank you.




















































































    "Phillip Windell" wrote:

    > Build a whole new Forest/Domain with the 2008
    >
    > Do a normal Domain Migration.
    >
    > Use the Active Directory Migration Tool (ADMT) for the Domain.
    >
    > Use Exmerge combined with the Swing Server method for Exchange.
    >
    > The Docs and Guide for both products will tell you all you need to know to
    > use them. The are several KB Docs for using the Swing Server Method for
    > Exchange.
    >
    > The Domain Migration can be spead over time, but I don't recommend
    > stretching it out too rediculasly long.
    >
    > Exchange with Exmerge needs to be done start to finish in once shot after
    > the mailbox contents are copied accross with Exmerge. But you can take you
    > time with it up to the point just before you use Exmerge because until then
    > the "swing server exchange" is not really being used for anything yet.
    >
    > In the end, the quicker you complete the whole entire process after begining
    > it the better off you are,...so don't drag it out any longer than you are
    > forced to do.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Phillip Windell
    >
    > The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    > or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    > "ed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi all,
    > >
    > > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > > and servers are on the child domain.
    > >
    > > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > > empty root domain?
    > >
    > > Thank you!

    >
    >
    > .
    >
    ed, Apr 7, 2010
    #8
  9. "ed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for your help.
    >
    > If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What
    > about
    > our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
    > servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
    > seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
    > re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
    > have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
    > application we need to reinstall also.
    > Definitely, we have downtime.
    >
    > I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.
    >
    > thank you.
    >
    >



    That depends on the version of Exchange currently running, and going to. Can
    you describe the Exchange installation in more detail, such as version, how
    many, if installed on a DC, and which version you want to go to?

    You can also opt to use the Exmerge tool 2-step method. Step 1, export to
    PST, and Step 2, import from the PSTs. This assumed ADMT was used to migrate
    the users first into the new forest. It uses the Exchange Alias to match the
    PST names. Public FOlders are migrated using PST method. You can spend some
    money on third party tools too, such as from Quest, to make it easier.

    As for AD, I agree with the others it will be beneficial to start from
    scratch.

    --
    Ace

    This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
    confers no rights.

    Please reply back to the newsgroup or forum for collaboration benefit among
    responding engineers, and to help others benefit from your resolution.

    Ace Fekay, MVP, MCT, MCITP EA, MCTS Windows 2008 & Exchange 2007, MCSE &
    MCSA 2003/2000, MCSA Messaging 2003
    Microsoft Certified Trainer
    Microsoft MVP - Directory Services

    If you feel this is an urgent issue and require immediate assistance, please
    contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please check http://support.microsoft.com
    for regional support phone numbers.
    Ace Fekay [MVP-DS, MCT], Apr 8, 2010
    #9
  10. Hello ed,

    Without a complete migration with ADMT you cannot get rid of the empty root
    domain, so you have to keep it or migrate. I prefer the latter. Are there
    any other applications then Exchange and which version is used, also from
    Exchange?

    Best regards

    Meinolf Weber
    Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
    no rights.
    ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
    ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


    > Hi all,
    >
    > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > and servers are on the child domain.
    > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008 DCs. If we need to
    > get rid of the empty root domain. is this possible without affecting
    > our applications (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep
    > this empty root domain?
    >
    > Thank you!
    >
    Meinolf Weber [MVP-DS], Apr 8, 2010
    #10
  11. Howdie!

    On 07.04.2010 23:46, ed wrote:
    > If I build the new domain, migrate the users to the new domain. What about
    > our exchange servers? that means that I need to build the new exchange
    > servers in the new domain. I can not use the movebox since it's in the
    > seperate forest, right? What about all others app servers? I have to
    > re-join the domain? Also, all workstations need to rejoin the domain? We
    > have some apps that needed to extend the schema too. That means these
    > application we need to reinstall also.
    > Definitely, we have downtime.
    >
    > I would rather just keep empty root domain, ask your insights on this.


    If there's the option, I'd probably leave the empty root alone. If it
    isn't an issue for you and you learned to live with it, leave it. It is
    a way greater hassle to build up a new forest with a domain and migrate
    users/machines and applications in there.

    Again, that depends on whether you "suffer" from the empty root or if
    it's just working and you're wondering what you can do about it.

    Cheers,
    Florian
    Florian Frommherz [MVP], Apr 8, 2010
    #11
  12. Not rebuild just migrate to a new forest.

    --
    Paul Bergson
    MVP - Directory Services
    MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
    MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
    2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
    Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

    http://www.pbbergs.com

    Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
    "ed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thank you for your help.
    >
    > That's what I thought and that's the design that the consultant did for us
    > years agao.
    >
    > If we need to get rid of the empty root, domain, that means we need to
    > rebuild everything (servers and users etc...), right?
    >
    >
    >
    > "Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" wrote:
    >
    >> You are stuck with the root domain forever. Root domain is no longer
    >> considered a best practice, the fewer domains the better.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Paul Bergson
    >> MVP - Directory Services
    >> MCITP - Enterprise Administrator
    >> MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCP, Security +, BS CSci
    >> 2008, Vista, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
    >> Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009
    >>
    >> http://www.pbbergs.com
    >>
    >> Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewGroups. This
    >> posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties and confers no rights.
    >> "ed" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > Hi all,
    >> >
    >> > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    >> > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    >> > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    >> > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    >> > and servers are on the child domain.
    >> >
    >> > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    >> > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    >> > is this possible without affecting our applications
    >> > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    >> > empty root domain?
    >> >
    >> > Thank you!

    >>
    >>
    >> .
    >>
    Paul Bergson [MVP-DS], Apr 8, 2010
    #12
  13. Generally speaking,...you create temporary Exchange Servers as "swing
    servers".

    Assuming 2003 or older you use Exmerge to copy the mailbox contents into the
    new mail boxes on the Temp servers. (..or was it Ex2007 and older,...I
    can't remember)

    When completed, you flatten the old Exchange boxes and build them back up
    "new" in the new Domain in the new Exchange organization. Then use the
    "move mailbox" ability that Exchange has built in to move the mailbox from
    the Temp Exchange to the Permanent one,..."swinging" the mailboxes to the
    proper Exchange,...hence the term "swing server" in reference to the Temp
    Exchange box.

    Then gracefully remove the Temp Exchange boxes via the proper practices.

    All details are found in the documentation of the ADMT and Exmerge (if 2003
    or older) and the rest is found in a few KB articles that are easily googled
    for. Sorry I don't have the links handy or I would post them.


    --
    Phillip Windell

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Phillip Windell, Apr 8, 2010
    #13
  14. Just a thought guys,....

    Since the Root is "empty",..it is possible to mirgate from the Child into
    the Root (a migration *within* the Forest)?

    If so, than can that be followed up by removing the Child Domain gracefully
    after that?


    --
    Phillip Windell

    The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
    or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    -----------------------------------------------------


    "ed" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    > with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    > now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    > and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    > and servers are on the child domain.
    >
    > Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008
    > DCs. If we need to get rid of the empty root domain.
    > is this possible without affecting our applications
    > (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason to keep this
    > empty root domain?
    >
    > Thank you!
    Phillip Windell, Apr 9, 2010
    #14
  15. Hello Phillip,

    Yes, this can be done with ADMT. After complete migration you can remove
    the child domain. But it sounds for me that the OP like to keep the child
    domain.

    Best regards

    Meinolf Weber
    Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
    no rights.
    ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
    ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


    > Just a thought guys,....
    >
    > Since the Root is "empty",..it is possible to mirgate from the Child
    > into the Root (a migration *within* the Forest)?
    >
    > If so, than can that be followed up by removing the Child Domain
    > gracefully after that?
    >
    > The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
    > Microsoft, or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
    > -----------------------------------------------------
    >
    > "ed" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> Back to years ago, the consultant set up our forest
    >> with empty root domain and one child domain. Right
    >> now, the forest functional level is windows 2003.
    >> and all DCs are windows 2003 domain controller. All users
    >> and servers are on the child domain.
    >> Currently, we are thinking to move to Windows 2008 DCs. If we need
    >> to get rid of the empty root domain. is this possible without
    >> affecting our applications (exchange etc..)? BTW, why is the reason
    >> to keep this empty root domain?
    >>
    >> Thank you!
    >>
    Meinolf Weber [MVP-DS], Apr 10, 2010
    #15
  16. "Meinolf Weber [MVP-DS]" <meiweb@(nospam)gmx.de> wrote in message news:...
    > Hello Phillip,
    >
    > Yes, this can be done with ADMT. After complete migration you can remove
    > the child domain. But it sounds for me that the OP like to keep the child
    > domain.
    >
    > Best regards
    >
    > Meinolf Weber


    That was the impression I got too, regarding keeping the child domain.

    Ace
    Ace Fekay [MVP-DS, MCT], Apr 11, 2010
    #16
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