quoting

Discussion in 'Windows Live Mail' started by Robin Halligan, May 21, 2012.

  1. I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    i missing?
    Tanks
    Robin
     
    Robin Halligan, May 21, 2012
    #1
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  2. Robin Halligan

    ©¿©¬ Guest

    On Mon, 21 May 2012 23:14:22 +1200, "Robin Halligan"
    <> wrote:

    >I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    >i missing?
    >Tanks
    >Robin
    >

    WLM 2011 deliberately ruined the newsreader by intentionally leaving
    out the '>' mark, making it nearly impossible to follow a
    conversation. Switch to a proper newsreader because it ain't never
    gonna be fixed. Sticking with WLM 2011 will only annoy other Usenet
    users, as intended.
     
    ©¿©¬, May 21, 2012
    #2
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  3. Robin Halligan

    Shamen Guest

    On 21-May-2012 08:38, ©¿©¬ wrote:
    > On Mon, 21 May 2012 23:14:22 +1200, "Robin Halligan"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >> things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >> automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    >> i missing?
    >> Tanks
    >> Robin
    >>

    > WLM 2011 deliberately ruined the newsreader by intentionally leaving
    > out the '>' mark, making it nearly impossible to follow a
    > conversation. Switch to a proper newsreader because it ain't never
    > gonna be fixed. Sticking with WLM 2011 will only annoy other Usenet
    > users, as intended.
    >


    +1

    --
    Shamen
    We are here now, among you.
     
    Shamen, May 21, 2012
    #3
  4. Robin Halligan

    ©¿©¬ Guest

    On Mon, 21 May 2012 08:56:55 -0400, Shamen <>
    wrote:

    >On 21-May-2012 08:38, ©¿©¬ wrote:
    >> On Mon, 21 May 2012 23:14:22 +1200, "Robin Halligan"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >>> things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >>> automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    >>> i missing?
    >>> Tanks
    >>> Robin
    >>>

    >> WLM 2011 deliberately ruined the newsreader by intentionally leaving
    >> out the '>' mark, making it nearly impossible to follow a
    >> conversation. Switch to a proper newsreader because it ain't never
    >> gonna be fixed. Sticking with WLM 2011 will only annoy other Usenet
    >> users, as intended.
    >>

    >
    >+1


    I see you're using T-Bird 13. I didn't know it was out just yet, and
    when checking for updates it doesn't tell me ver. 13 is available. One
    of the things that turned me off T-Bird was the quoting bars instead
    of the usual '>' marks. "Quotecolors" was a good fix but the developer
    stopped upgrading it yonks ago, so I fixed it myself by editing the
    addon after unraring the file and fiddling with it.
     
    ©¿©¬, May 21, 2012
    #4
  5. Robin Halligan

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, Robin.

    Sadly, the other poster is mostly correct, especially, "it ain't never gonna
    be fixed. " ;>( And the topic has been discussed here - and elsewhere -
    over and over.

    Microsoft has lost all interest in newsgroups and in supporting them with a
    newsreader. When Windows Live Essentials Wave 4 was about to be released
    (in 2010), developers noted this failure-to-quote problem in WLMail. The
    problem could have been fixed, but that would have taken too long and
    delayed the release of Messenger, Photo Gallery and the rest of Wave 4, so
    MS took the quick'n'dirty way out and simply released the suite without the
    WLMail fix - and it still hasn't been fixed by later releases and probably
    will never be fixed.

    Like many others, I still use WLM 2011 in spite of its well-known problems.
    It's the nearest thing to OE6 that is still available today - in spite of
    the new Ribbon GUI. When I first discovered Usenet in the '90s, I tried
    many of the newsreaders available at the time. When OE appeared, I found
    that it fit me best and I've used it and its successors (WM and WLM) ever
    since.

    As explained several times, we each have our favorite workarounds. For
    example, I usually top-post, often quoting specific lines from prior
    messages if needed to focus my reply; I pre-pend the ">" to these lines to
    show that they are quotes. When quoting a paragraph or other multiple
    lines, I remove line-feeds within the quoted material and prepend the ">"
    before just the first line and let WLMail insert the others after it
    reformats the quoted paragraph. It ain't purty, but it works for any reader
    who is more interested in the content of the message than in its appearance.

    Be aware that many users hate what Microsoft has done to WLM 2011 so much
    that they ignore all posts that use it. Some take the extra step of trying
    to publicly humiliate those of us who still use it - or they put us in their
    kill files. Many try, over and over and quite loudly, to get us to use
    THEIR favorite newsreader.

    You'll have to decide for yourself whether to (a) endure the slings and
    arrows of continuing to use WLM 2011 or (b) switch to another newsreader
    (and mail client). I suppose I'll have to switch some day, but I'll stick
    with WLM for now.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
    Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


    "Robin Halligan" wrote in message news:jpd82g$u53$...

    I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    i missing?
    Tanks
    Robin
     
    R. C. White, May 21, 2012
    #5
  6. Robin Halligan

    ...winston Guest

    The quote feature character code ">" removed by design.

    i.e. you're not missing anything (wysiwyg)


    --
    ....winston
    msft mvp mail


    "Robin Halligan" wrote in message news:jpd82g$u53$...

    I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    i missing?
    Tanks
    Robin
     
    ...winston, May 21, 2012
    #6
  7. Robin Halligan

    Magnus Guest

    On 5/21/2012 12:32 PM, ...winston wrote:
    > The quote feature character code ">" removed by design.
    >
    > i.e. you're not missing anything (wysiwyg)


    It's M$'s attempt to be environmentally conscious. Surely you realize
    how long an angle bracket takes to fully biodegrade? And since ASCII art
    is a dying industry there are few remaining opportunities to recycle all
    those brackets.
     
    Magnus, May 21, 2012
    #7
  8. Robin Halligan

    ...winston Guest

    Lol..
    More likely since the feature was broke in WLM during beta and the higher
    usage clients (Outlook and Hotmail) already provide the option for mail and
    compounded by no further support for nttp (which neither Outlook and Hotmail
    support) then the need to fix was no longer valid.

    Or..
    Someone asked, "Can we spend some time fixing this problem"..and the
    response was "No! Next question please"

    --
    ....winston
    msft mvp mail


    "Magnus" wrote in message news:jpe2f1$f4b$...

    On 5/21/2012 12:32 PM, ...winston wrote:
    > The quote feature character code ">" removed by design.
    >
    > i.e. you're not missing anything (wysiwyg)


    It's M$'s attempt to be environmentally conscious. Surely you realize
    how long an angle bracket takes to fully biodegrade? And since ASCII art
    is a dying industry there are few remaining opportunities to recycle all
    those brackets.
     
    ...winston, May 22, 2012
    #8

  9. >"Robin Halligan" wrote in message news:jpd82g$u53$...


    >I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what am
    >i missing?
    >Tanks
    >Robin


    Ok thanks for all the answers looks like i will have to find another program
    I was using 40tude dialoge but it didn't handle html so when i got a new
    puter i thought i would try this
    might have to look for something else.
     
    Robin Halligan, May 22, 2012
    #9
  10. Robin Halligan

    Shamen Guest

    On 22-May-2012 03:09, Robin Halligan wrote:
    >
    >
    >> "Robin Halligan" wrote in message news:jpd82g$u53$...

    >
    >> I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >> things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >> automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread
    >> what am i missing?
    >> Tanks
    >> Robin

    >
    > Ok thanks for all the answers looks like i will have to find another
    > program
    > I was using 40tude dialoge but it didn't handle html so when i got a new
    > puter i thought i would try this
    > might have to look for something else.
    >


    You can look here for some options:

    http://email.about.com/od/windowsemailclients/tp/free_email_prog.htm

    --
    Shamen
    We are here now, among you.
     
    Shamen, May 22, 2012
    #10
  11. Robin Halligan

    KCB Guest

    "Robin Halligan" <> wrote in message
    news:jpfe3t$m8d$...
    >
    >
    >>"Robin Halligan" wrote in message news:jpd82g$u53$...

    >
    >>I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to set
    >>things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >>automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a thread what
    >>am i missing?
    >>Tanks
    >>Robin

    >
    > Ok thanks for all the answers looks like i will have to find another
    > program
    > I was using 40tude dialoge but it didn't handle html so when i got a new
    > puter i thought i would try this
    > might have to look for something else.
    >


    You could uninstall WLM 2011, then install WLM 2009. It doesn't have the
    ribbon UI, but it does quote properly.
     
    KCB, May 27, 2012
    #11
  12. Robin Halligan

    BillW50 Guest

    On 5/21/2012 9:15 AM, R. C. White wrote:
    > As explained several times, we each have our favorite workarounds. For
    > example, I usually top-post, often quoting specific lines from prior
    > messages if needed to focus my reply; I pre-pend the ">" to these lines
    > to show that they are quotes. When quoting a paragraph or other multiple
    > lines, I remove line-feeds within the quoted material and prepend the
    > ">" before just the first line and let WLMail insert the others after it
    > reformats the quoted paragraph. It ain't purty, but it works for any
    > reader who is more interested in the content of the message than in its
    > appearance.


    Have you considered copy and pasting to a text editor / word processor
    that you can setup macros to do this quoting task nearly automatically?
    I've been doing this for readers since the 80's (although no copy and
    paste back then, saving a temp and then loading the temp).

    I also use WLM 2009 on my Windows 7/8 machines. But I don't use any of
    the other Windows Live stuff, so WLM 2009 works well for me. But I
    suspect you have a problem going back to 2009, eh?

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
    Centrino Core Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Jun 1, 2012
    #12
  13. "R. C. White"

    > Like many others, I still use WLM 2011 in spite of its well-known
    > problems. It's the nearest thing to OE6 that is still available
    > today - in spite of the new Ribbon GUI. When I first discovered
    > Usenet in the '90s, I tried many of the newsreaders available at the
    > time. When OE appeared, I found that it fit me best and I've used
    > it and its successors (WM and WLM) ever since.



    FULLY ACK!

    Exactly the same experience here, in the late 90s, OE was fine for all
    types of eMail + news reader.
    And although WLM has numorous drawbacks, it does have a number of
    advantages and some good ideas, as it combines "legacy" eMail (pop3 is
    often regarded as legacy) with mor modern protocols and it integrates
    Microsoft @live services which sometimes are silly but i do however
    use the Calendar features and calendar syncing on different machines
    and besides my pop3/imap eMail accounts i do use a @live account to
    keep some eMails in the subfolders across computers.
    Occasionally i also use RSS feeds and - of course - the NNTP news
    client.
    Facing exactly the same problem here that many users (in English
    language but also in my home language German) tend to HATE WLM users
    just as hhey earlier hated OE users and i never really understood why?

    THE FUTUR ?

    Does any body know if MS will really abandon the further developement
    of WLM and will stick all development into the metro style app called
    "mail"?
    Is there some way to try to convince MS to continue development of
    WLM? Or are these just rumors anyway?
    As so many others - i never found a real alternative to WLM - it still
    is the only client that combines so many features (as i said the
    calendar for instance is usable).
    Also i never understood why the ability to edit HTML was removed, the
    ability to add backgrounds/stationary and so on, but i suppose this
    was for some type of security reasons and MS just did not want to
    bother with such things.
    However, i think that WLM should continue on - it's the combination of
    legacy and modern support and the combination of news - mail - feeds -
    calendar - sync that does make WLM still interesting ..... at least
    for me and definately also for some others.

    greetings

    Roland Schweiger
     
    Roland Schweiger, Jun 4, 2012
    #13
  14. Robin Halligan

    ...winston Guest

    - Inline

    "Roland Schweiger" wrote in message news:jqj3fb$877$...

    THE FUTURE ?

    Does any body know if MS will really abandon the further developement
    of WLM and will stick all development into the metro style app called
    "mail"?

    - That would appear to be the current direction. At this stage WLM
    is legacy ware.


    Is there some way to try to convince MS to continue development of
    WLM? Or are these just rumors anyway?
    As so many others - i never found a real alternative to WLM - it still
    is the only client that combines so many features (as i said the
    calendar for instance is usable).

    - From day one, the focus was on the ability to use a Live ID for
    Contacts, Calendar, and Hotmail type accounts and keep all in sync
    with the same services available via the web UI and likewise
    integration with the other 'Live' applications that had web UI
    counterparts (Messenger, PhotoGallery). Everyone wanted
    the WLE suite to be a replacement for previous MSFT products.
    Imo, that was never the objective. If you look at from another
    angle, the whole Live program may have been for one primary
    purpose - to collect telemetry data on cloud usage.
    With a half billion people using Messenger and Hotmail they
    collected a boatload of data. And the usage patterns of that
    same population (no matter what anyone else thinks or wants)
    would be hard to ignore.

    Also i never understood why the ability to edit HTML was removed, the
    ability to add backgrounds/stationary and so on, but i suppose this
    was for some type of security reasons and MS just did not want to
    bother with such things.

    - for years we heard about the security issues of Html in mail
    and news clients that supported them...but the removal of
    those features was probably more related to the small
    percentage of people that took advantage of those features.

    However, i think that WLM should continue on - it's the combination of
    legacy and modern support and the combination of news - mail - feeds -
    calendar - sync that does make WLM still interesting ..... at least
    for me and definitely also for some others.

    - you can continue to use it (WL Essentials programs) on Win8
    but it is doubtful that any significant development will be in its future.

    Keep in mind a few things <g>
    1. part of the Win8 is the Msft store...some programs
    could have a future as nominally priced fee based apps in some
    form or another. e.g. Live Writer, Photo Gallery
    2. MSFT owns Skype (the future of its integration with Win8
    and/or Messenger could be an interesting direction) :)
     
    ...winston, Jun 5, 2012
    #14
  15. Robin Halligan

    Ildhund Guest

    ....winston wrote...

    > Also i never understood why the ability to edit HTML was removed, ...


    It's fascinating to rummage around in wlmail.exe and its associated libraries, and I only wish I knew how to reveal all their secrets. What I have seen, though, is that the code for many of the features that have been removed in successive versions is still there. It wouldn't take a competent coder long to dismantle the bypasses that have been erected to give us some of them back, especially those that only involved removing a command from the UI like the ability to indent and prefix quoted material in replies.

    This program is far too good to be abandoned completely, for the reasons you give, but if MS is not prepared to bring it up to scratch, perhaps some enterprising developer could do it with MS's blessing. Do you know any?
    --
    Noel
     
    Ildhund, Jun 5, 2012
    #15
  16. Robin Halligan

    ...winston Guest

    Until the API is publicly available, doubtful MSFT blessing will be
    forthcoming.
    In fact MSFT objective, afaics and surmise, moving forward, is to provide
    features, upgrades, enhancements via the MSFT store (either as free or fee
    based). That approach provides very little incentive to support or bless
    in-house or out-house (3rd party with intended pun) development for a legacy
    product that would reduce usage and/or dependence on an included Win8 store
    app.

    In the same light. MSFT is fully aware of those half billion people using
    Hotmail and Messenger not to mention that just about every pc sold with Win7
    has WLE pre-installed
    - Note: Usage is different than installed base, but with nothing else
    available in Win7 both are probably substantial and increasing with Win7 now
    having equaled or surpassed XP o/s installations (market share).

    It may not be supported (in name only for Win8) or developed further (Win8
    garnering the largest share of resources, expense, budget, support etc) but
    they are certainly not doing anything to prevent its installation and usage
    on Win8..and since it and the Win8 apps are capable of sending telemetric
    data (phone home) over time it provides comparative usage data.

    If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to monetize upgraded 'app' versions
    (nominal cost via MSFT store) of Photo Gallery (add-on for Win8 Photos app)
    and Live Writer (stand alone)


    --
    ....winston
    msft mvp mail


    "Ildhund" wrote in message news:jqliop$rg9$...

    ....winston wrote...

    > Also i never understood why the ability to edit HTML was removed, ...


    It's fascinating to rummage around in wlmail.exe and its associated
    libraries, and I only wish I knew how to reveal all their secrets. What I
    have seen, though, is that the code for many of the features that have been
    removed in successive versions is still there. It wouldn't take a competent
    coder long to dismantle the bypasses that have been erected to give us some
    of them back, especially those that only involved removing a command from
    the UI like the ability to indent and prefix quoted material in replies.

    This program is far too good to be abandoned completely, for the reasons you
    give, but if MS is not prepared to bring it up to scratch, perhaps some
    enterprising developer could do it with MS's blessing. Do you know any?
    --
    Noel
     
    ...winston, Jun 5, 2012
    #16
  17. Robin Halligan

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:jqliop$rg9$,
    Ildhund typed on Tue, 5 Jun 2012 19:21:40 +0100:
    > ...winston wrote...
    >
    >> Also i never understood why the ability to edit HTML was removed, ...

    >
    > It's fascinating to rummage around in wlmail.exe and its associated
    > libraries, and I only wish I knew how to reveal all their secrets.
    > What I have seen, though, is that the code for many of the features
    > that have been removed in successive versions is still there. It
    > wouldn't take a competent coder long to dismantle the bypasses that
    > have been erected to give us some of them back, especially those that
    > only involved removing a command from the UI like the ability to
    > indent and prefix quoted material in replies.
    > This program is far too good to be abandoned completely, for the
    > reasons you give, but if MS is not prepared to bring it up to
    > scratch, perhaps some enterprising developer could do it with MS's
    > blessing. Do you know any?


    I see no reason why a programmer couldn't create an OE/WM/WLM clone. No
    need for the source code or knowing the APIs. Lots of readers from the
    80's and 90's often copied the better features from one another. This is
    how column sort came about, for example.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
    Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Jun 9, 2012
    #17
  18. Robin Halligan

    BillW50 Guest

    In news:9bfkr7hvduku94s075n6uhkfge36oo6f4j@_,
    ©¿© typed:
    > On Mon, 21 May 2012 08:56:55 -0400, Shamen <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 21-May-2012 08:38, ©¿© wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 21 May 2012 23:14:22 +1200, "Robin Halligan"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I have just started using windows live mail 2011 and am looking to
    >>>> set things up properly i cannot see how to set it up to
    >>>> automatically set the > quotes to indent previous parts of a
    >>>> thread what am i missing?
    >>>> Tanks
    >>>> Robin
    >>>>
    >>> WLM 2011 deliberately ruined the newsreader by intentionally leaving
    >>> out the '>' mark, making it nearly impossible to follow a
    >>> conversation. Switch to a proper newsreader because it ain't never
    >>> gonna be fixed. Sticking with WLM 2011 will only annoy other Usenet
    >>> users, as intended.

    >>
    >> +1

    >
    > I see you're using T-Bird 13. I didn't know it was out just yet, and
    > when checking for updates it doesn't tell me ver. 13 is available. One
    > of the things that turned me off T-Bird was the quoting bars instead
    > of the usual '>' marks. "Quotecolors" was a good fix but the developer
    > stopped upgrading it yonks ago, so I fixed it myself by editing the
    > addon after unraring the file and fiddling with it.


    Thunderbird v13 is available for beta testers. And myself, I don't care
    much for Thunderbird for newsgroups either. It isn't very efficient and
    normally operates slowly. For email, it isn't bad though.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
    Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Jun 9, 2012
    #18
  19. Robin Halligan

    ...winston Guest

    WLE *is* legacy ware.
    - Contrary to anyone's desire or belief regarding value (and especially with
    Win8 in RC) no further development for prior versions. Imo, the only
    possibilities like in updates due to security issues and/or Fix/Patches/Hot
    Fix necessary if other applications or updates impact (but at some point the
    need to do that also diminishes).

    Some programmer ? Its been 15 yrs since OE was released, 6 since
    development stopped on WM. Nothing of significance was developed beyond the
    existing available third party then and now.

    Could someone do it ? Yes. Incentive to do so ? Probably not.

    Although an *app* for Win8 has better chance of being developed than
    working on code for yesterday's deprecated clients. Though since MSFT
    provides a mail app via the MSFT store in Win8...allowing another 3rd party
    email/news/etc. option in the MSFT store could be long shot (very long).

    But you never know...
    e.g. http://www.oehelp.com/ceml/default.aspx

    --
    ....winston
    msft mvp mail


    "BillW50" wrote in message news:jqvhkj$af6$...
    I see no reason why a programmer couldn't create an OE/WM/WLM clone. No
    need for the source code or knowing the APIs. Lots of readers from the
    80's and 90's often copied the better features from one another. This is
    how column sort came about, for example.
     
    ...winston, Jun 10, 2012
    #19
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