Tracking Down Cause of Creeping System Hang

PROBLEM: I have been seeing at possibly random moments a "creeping"
system lock/freeze/hang (I have seen it especially just before the clean
install in the original installation). It might start--but not always---
with a mouse click to bring focus to an UltraEdit document. I get a "Not
Responding", wait for the disk drive light to stop its continuous
illumination. And when it does stop illuminating, I still see "Not
Responding" and know I am in trouble.

I then start activating other windows, and they start showing "Not
Responding". I know I am in real trouble when I do Ctrl+Shift+Esc to get
the Task Manager and it never appears; I do this to try to track the
nature of the creeping system hang...no luck. The Start menu will open on
a click, but nothing else happens. The mouse pointer is still moving
around, but nothing is responding to click.


QUESTION: What could be at work here? How can I track the cause of the
creeping hang?


OTHER INFORMATION:

1. Vista Installation/Reinstallation: I did a clean install of Vista
HomePrem (32-bit) about 5 months ago. The original install lasted 28
months [amazing for Windows!]. The clean install was done only because of
a justified fear that keylogger software had been installed, but the
original installation of Vista was "limping along" and had failed the
System File Check, with several unrepairable "member" files (although it
still ran).

2. Notebook Age/Usage: The notebook is about 2.5 years old now, and has
been used about 13,000 +/- 1500 hours out of a possible 23,000 hours (if
used 24/7). That's a range of 14-18 hours of use maybe 6-7 days a week
for 2.5 years. The notebook is a notorious overheater too, and software
to monitor CPU and hard drive temperature has been in place since for the
last 6-7 months.

3. Hardware Resource Configuration: The notebook has two physical drives,
each one logical partition, a 100 GB "C:" (label:OS) and a 100 GB "D:"
(labelATA) drive. While Windows is on the C: drive, the virtual RAM
(pagefile) is on the D: drive to balance the use of the drives.

4. System Config: I have used 'chkdsk /r' several times and also the
manufacturer's drive test tools. The SysFileCheck shows an unrepairable
state, but the file is 'azroleui.dll.mui', which I believe is a component
to the Computer Management module, and is inconsequential; I have tried to
replace it with disk copy, but always get 'access is denied' after taking
ownership and this happens in safe mode too. We are way past doing System
Restore, as this has been ongoing for a month or more and I don't have
restore point to an earlier time.

5. Hardware Operation/Function and one Blue Screen Problem: Despite the
hours of usage and age of notebook, I have used a Seagate disk test tool
to analyze disk function, and it passed all the tests on the system drive
after some corrections. It still does. I have re-installed or even
upgraded to latest device drivers (sound, 5-card adapter, video, wireless,
ethernet, whether relevant or not). I did this because there is another
problem: a processor-halt blue screen (PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGE_AREA, no
..sys file identifed) that only appears when I am using P2P (bittorrent
client) running full throttle on the wireless adapter, not the ethernet
adapter.

6. State of System At The Time of Hanging:

I don't have many apps open at the time the system likes to hang:

a. IE8 with only one "tab" open to a video stream (MSNBC at TVPC.com)
debugging and error notification active for when JScript debugging
done

b. UltraEdit for doing web page development

c. FF3.6 with mainly 6-10 tabs open, some to http://localhost pages for
checking web page development; Firebug for Javascript is an add-on, among
several others.

d. Background apps/services (system tray stuff) [visible list]
(i) Apache 2.x for Win32
(ii) MySQL 5.x [not visible in system tray]
(iii) Kaspersky Internet Security 2010
(iv) Everest Ultimate for watching HP notebook overheating
(v) Skype and WLM
(vi) Bandwidth Meter Pro

An overheating notebook, and all do, is going to eventually fail.
Notebooks with powerful GPUs are even more likely to die of heat.
Software measurements of notebook heat are somewhat irrelevant given the
limited options for remedying problems. In a reasonably designed desktop
heat issues may be local but in the tight confines of a notebook heat
distributes more evenly through the unit and parts that ordinarily would not
be exposed to high temperatures in a desktop are exposed to big temperature
swings every time the laptop is used.
The hard drive is about the only user replaceable item in a notebook and you
report your hard drive is functioning properly.
If you have never done it open the notebook and clean out all the mung or
pay someone to do it. If you are careful the only problem is making sure you
do not knock any keys off the keyboard if you have to remove it.
Also try using a cooling device under the notebook: they are noisy but can
reduce the temperature of the notebook and extend its useful life.
I was able to resurrect a nearly five year old Dell laptop this way that
kept shutting itself off because of heat issues. Of course I do not use that
machine for heavy work but merely to power a nearly static external display.
If video games ever catch on for the Mac platform, which largely consists of
undercooled notebook parts with limited passive heat radiation, their
otherwise seldom stressed anemic video systems may start boiling over like
an Icelandic volcano.

Repo�t problems and check for solutions automatically
<http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/fba7e7c3-2aec-46e4-9a32-968aa620f35b1033.mspx>

Copied �esponse from .

In Control Panel choose Problem Reports and Solutions (type problem in
Start's searchbox), go to Problem History, right click your error and choose
Check For Solution. You can also examine the details.

In Administrative Tools choose Reliability and Performance Monitor and
choose MonitoringTools then Reliability Monitor (type Reliability in search
on Start) . This list is a chart of software installs, uninstalls, Windows
updates, and crashes by date. See if your crashes started happening after
you installed or uninstalled something.

It may help to rule out hardware faults

Type memory in Start's search box and choose Memory Diagnostic

In a command prompt (type command in Start's search box then right click and
choose Run As Administrator) type

chkdsk c: /r

If you have more than one drive replace C: with the other drive letters.

Check for corrupted files by typing in a command prompt

sfc /scannow

You may wish to do clean boot
troubleshooting http://support.microsoft.com/kb/331796>
--


"PG" wrote:

>
> PROBLEM: I have been seeing at possibly random moments a "creeping"
> system lock/freeze/hang (I have seen it especially just before the clean
> install in the original installation). It might start--but not always---
> with a mouse click to bring focus to an UltraEdit document. I get a "Not
> Responding", wait for the disk drive light to stop its continuous
> illumination. And when it does stop illuminating, I still see "Not
> Responding" and know I am in trouble.
>
> I then start activating other windows, and they start showing "Not
> Responding". I know I am in real trouble when I do Ctrl+Shift+Esc to get
> the Task Manager and it never appears; I do this to try to track the
> nature of the creeping system hang...no luck. The Start menu will open on
> a click, but nothing else happens. The mouse pointer is still moving
> around, but nothing is responding to click.
>
>
> QUESTION: What could be at work here? How can I track the cause of the
> creeping hang?
>
>
> OTHER INFORMATION:
>
> 1. Vista Installation/Reinstallation: I did a clean install of Vista
> HomePrem (32-bit) about 5 months ago. The original install lasted 28
> months [amazing for Windows!]. The clean install was done only because of
> a justified fear that keylogger software had been installed, but the
> original installation of Vista was "limping along" and had failed the
> System File Check, with several unrepairable "member" files (although it
> still ran).
>
> 2. Notebook Age/Usage: The notebook is about 2.5 years old now, and has
> been used about 13,000 +/- 1500 hours out of a possible 23,000 hours (if
> used 24/7). That's a range of 14-18 hours of use maybe 6-7 days a week
> for 2.5 years. The notebook is a notorious overheater too, and software
> to monitor CPU and hard drive temperature has been in place since for the
> last 6-7 months.
>
> 3. Hardware Resource Configuration: The notebook has two physical drives,
> each one logical partition, a 100 GB "C:" (label:OS) and a 100 GB "D:"
> (labelATA) drive. While Windows is on the C: drive, the virtual RAM
> (pagefile) is on the D: drive to balance the use of the drives.
>
> 4. System Config: I have used 'chkdsk /r' several times and also the
> manufacturer's drive test tools. The SysFileCheck shows an unrepairable
> state, but the file is 'azroleui.dll.mui', which I believe is a component
> to the Computer Management module, and is inconsequential; I have tried to
> replace it with disk copy, but always get 'access is denied' after taking
> ownership and this happens in safe mode too. We are way past doing System
> Restore, as this has been ongoing for a month or more and I don't have
> restore point to an earlier time.
>
> 5. Hardware Operation/Function and one Blue Screen Problem: Despite the
> hours of usage and age of notebook, I have used a Seagate disk test tool
> to analyze disk function, and it passed all the tests on the system drive
> after some corrections. It still does. I have re-installed or even
> upgraded to latest device drivers (sound, 5-card adapter, video, wireless,
> ethernet, whether relevant or not). I did this because there is another
> problem: a processor-halt blue screen (PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGE_AREA, no
> ..sys file identifed) that only appears when I am using P2P (bittorrent
> client) running full throttle on the wireless adapter, not the ethernet
> adapter.
>
> 6. State of System At The Time of Hanging:
>
> I don't have many apps open at the time the system likes to hang:
>
> a. IE8 with only one "tab" open to a video stream (MSNBC at TVPC.com)
> debugging and error notification active for when JScript debugging
> done
>
> b. UltraEdit for doing web page development
>
> c. FF3.6 with mainly 6-10 tabs open, some to http://localhost pages for
> checking web page development; Firebug for Javascript is an add-on, among
> several others.
>
> d. Background apps/services (system tray stuff) [visible list]
> (i) Apache 2.x for Win32
> (ii) MySQL 5.x [not visible in system tray]
> (iii) Kaspersky Internet Security 2010
> (iv) Everest Ultimate for watching HP notebook overheating
> (v) Skype and WLM
> (vi) Bandwidth Meter Pro
>
> .
>

"c_atiel" <> wrote in
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:

> If you have never done it open the notebook and clean out all the mung
> or pay someone to do it. If you are careful the only problem is making
> sure you do not knock any keys off the keyboard if you have to remove
> it. Also try using a cooling device under the notebook: they are noisy
> but can reduce the temperature of the notebook and extend its useful
> life. I was able to resurrect a nearly five year old Dell laptop this
> way that kept shutting itself off because of heat issues. Of course I
> do not use that machine for heavy work but merely to power a nearly
> static external display. If video games ever catch on for the Mac
> platform, which largely consists of undercooled notebook parts with
> limited passive heat radiation, their otherwise seldom stressed anemic
> video systems may start boiling over like an Icelandic volcano.

I should have added that I had fan/heat sink assembly replaced about two
months ago. The original fan had been serviced with as much of a cleaning
as possible, but it eventually was not keeping up. When I played video
stream in HD Flash, the CPU had generated considerable heat and the CPU was
getting up into the mid-80s (I take 72 deg as the max). Moreover the disk
drive was going 55+ deg, which I take as the max on that. With fan
replacement, the CPU never goes much beyond the low 60s with constant HD
Flash video stream and other CPU-intensive activities (such as when
Kaspersky is running hard). But I do think for perhaps as much as a month
the hardware was sorely tested with respect to temperature because of a
failing fan/sink assembly. I was tempted to buy a bottom cooling platform,
which appear to be nothing but levered jackstands with a couple of noisy
(useless?) fans, from what I've seen.

=?Utf-8?B?xo7QuMOnzrVs?= <> wrote in
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:

> Repo�t problems and check for solutions automatically
> <http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...e7c3-2aec-46e4
> -9a32-968aa620f35b1033.mspx>
>
> Copied �esponse from .
>
> In Control Panel choose Problem Reports and Solutions (type problem
> in
> Start's searchbox), go to Problem History, right click your error and
> choose Check For Solution. You can also examine the details.

Thanks for advice. Indeed, I had been going to this system feature and
checking out all offered solutions, none of which were relevant, and many
of which were offering solutions that had already been done. In some
cases, these alert on to update/upgrade to latest version. But I did run
through the solutions one more time just to keep on things.

>
> In Administrative Tools choose Reliability and Performance Monitor and
> choose MonitoringTools then Reliability Monitor (type Reliability in
> search on Start) . This list is a chart of software installs,
> uninstalls, Windows updates, and crashes by date. See if your crashes
> started happening after you installed or uninstalled something.

For all the time I had been using Vista, I did not realize this tool,
probably because the Computer Management of XP was not so useful? I had
been using the Event Viewer, but the Reliability Monitor is a nice visual
summary. Only Application and Miscellaneous Failures could be seen since
the 6 Dec 2009 clean install (5 months or so), no Hardware or Windows
failures. The System Stability Index starts out 5 months ago at 6.48 and
has a low of 1.10 one week ago (current index = 2.38) The line on the plot
is dashed up to 2 Jan 2010, and it solid for 3-4 months up to this date:
dashed lines apparently indicate that not enough data is collected to
measure System Stability properly. All Miscellaneous failures are marked
as "disruptive shutdown," but these refer to the system hangs absolutely.
The application failures are not unknown: they happen during system
operation and the application crash alert is shown to me. These
application crashes mostly are IE8, which I don't use heavily, except for
video streaming from one site rich with badly coded Javascript/JScript
called TVPC.com, which brings in Justin.TV content setting up Flash or WMP
plug-ins, Almost any browser would be tested harshly by such sites.

>
> It may help to rule out hardware faults
>
> Type memory in Start's search box and choose Memory Diagnostic

I neglected to mention that I did use Windows Memory Diagnostic tool in
default (two-pass) mode, and there was no problem. The Windows Memory
Diagnostic tool is highly complimented by tech web sites.
>
> In a command prompt (type command in Start's search box then right
> click and choose Run As Administrator) type
>
> chkdsk c: /r

I have run this maybe 10 times over the last two months, especially after
what happened that could have been a bad software install in which indexes
need repairing. The chkdsk has been running clean for the last several
times, and I also use Seagate's short drive and SMART tests, which have
recently been passing (green).

>
> If you have more than one drive replace C: with the other drive
> letters.
>
> Check for corrupted files by typing in a command prompt
>
> sfc /scannow

As I indicate below, the Windows Protection System finds one file that
cannot be repaired, and although I was able to extract the file from the
Vista DVD, I cannot rename the corrupte file in the ..\winsxs\..
subdirectory because of a continuing "Access is denied" alert, which
happens in safe mode too, and after using 'takeown.' It seems I also
booted from Linux to gain access to the filesystem but was prevented from
renaming and installing the file. The file is 'azroleui.dll.mui' which I
think is a module to the computer Management User Interface related with
user/group authentication/control. When I try to open the Computer
Management module, the users/groups module does not show. It does not
otherwise seem critical to Vista function.

>
> You may wish to do clean boot
> troubleshooting http://support.microsoft.com/kb/331796>
> --
>
>
> "PG" wrote:
>
>>
>> PROBLEM: I have been seeing at possibly random moments a "creeping"
>> system lock/freeze/hang (I have seen it especially just before the
>> clean install in the original installation). It might start--but not
>> always--- with a mouse click to bring focus to an UltraEdit document.
>> I get a "Not Responding", wait for the disk drive light to stop its
>> continuous illumination. And when it does stop illuminating, I still
>> see "Not Responding" and know I am in trouble.
>>
>> I then start activating other windows, and they start showing "Not
>> Responding". I know I am in real trouble when I do Ctrl+Shift+Esc to
>> get the Task Manager and it never appears; I do this to try to track
>> the nature of the creeping system hang...no luck. The Start menu
>> will open on a click, but nothing else happens. The mouse pointer is
>> still moving around, but nothing is responding to click.
>>
>>
>> QUESTION: What could be at work here? How can I track the cause of
>> the creeping hang?
>>
>>
>> OTHER INFORMATION:
>>
>> 1. Vista Installation/Reinstallation: I did a clean install of Vista
>> HomePrem (32-bit) about 5 months ago. The original install lasted 28
>> months [amazing for Windows!]. The clean install was done only
>> because of a justified fear that keylogger software had been
>> installed, but the original installation of Vista was "limping along"
>> and had failed the System File Check, with several unrepairable
>> "member" files (although it still ran).
>>
>> 2. Notebook Age/Usage: The notebook is about 2.5 years old now, and
>> has been used about 13,000 +/- 1500 hours out of a possible 23,000
>> hours (if used 24/7). That's a range of 14-18 hours of use maybe 6-7
>> days a week for 2.5 years. The notebook is a notorious overheater
>> too, and software to monitor CPU and hard drive temperature has been
>> in place since for the last 6-7 months.
>>
>> 3. Hardware Resource Configuration: The notebook has two physical
>> drives, each one logical partition, a 100 GB "C:" (label:OS) and a
>> 100 GB "D:" (labelATA) drive. While Windows is on the C: drive,
>> the virtual RAM (pagefile) is on the D: drive to balance the use of
>> the drives.
>>
>> 4. System Config: I have used 'chkdsk /r' several times and also the
>> manufacturer's drive test tools. The SysFileCheck shows an
>> unrepairable state, but the file is 'azroleui.dll.mui', which I
>> believe is a component to the Computer Management module, and is
>> inconsequential; I have tried to replace it with disk copy, but
>> always get 'access is denied' after taking ownership and this happens
>> in safe mode too. We are way past doing System Restore, as this has
>> been ongoing for a month or more and I don't have restore point to an
>> earlier time.
>>
>> 5. Hardware Operation/Function and one Blue Screen Problem: Despite
>> the hours of usage and age of notebook, I have used a Seagate disk
>> test tool to analyze disk function, and it passed all the tests on
>> the system drive after some corrections. It still does. I have
>> re-installed or even upgraded to latest device drivers (sound, 5-card
>> adapter, video, wireless, ethernet, whether relevant or not). I did
>> this because there is another problem: a processor-halt blue screen
>> (PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGE_AREA, no ..sys file identifed) that only
>> appears when I am using P2P (bittorrent client) running full throttle
>> on the wireless adapter, not the ethernet adapter.
>>
>> 6. State of System At The Time of Hanging:
>>
>> I don't have many apps open at the time the system likes to hang:
>>
>> a. IE8 with only one "tab" open to a video stream (MSNBC at
>> TVPC.com)
>> debugging and error notification active for when JScript
>> debugging done
>>
>> b. UltraEdit for doing web page development
>>
>> c. FF3.6 with mainly 6-10 tabs open, some to http://localhost pages
>> for
>> checking web page development; Firebug for Javascript is an add-on,
>> among several others.
>>
>> d. Background apps/services (system tray stuff) [visible list]
>> (i) Apache 2.x for Win32
>> (ii) MySQL 5.x [not visible in system tray]
>> (iii) Kaspersky Internet Security 2010
>> (iv) Everest Ultimate for watching HP notebook overheating
>> (v) Skype and WLM
>> (vi) Bandwidth Meter Pro
>>
>> .
>>