Updates Vs Security Updates

Hello,
Are "windows security updates" supposed to be
included in "windows updates"? I check and install
updates manually and have noticed that I have had
relatively few "windows updates" to install; around 3 or 4
since Xmas. I subsequently installed Windows Defender,
(and updated it). A few days later I discovered the
"Windows Security Updates" site via an option on
Defender's control panel. I was then surprised to
discover that I had 66 security updates ready to
download! some dating back to 2004! Shouldn't
"Windows Update" have notified me of these? Are
"Windows Security Updates" separate entities to 'normal' updates?
I don't understand the disparity.
I have XP Pro and am running Windows Defender, Zone
Alarm Internet Suite, AVG AntiVirus and SpyBot Search
and Destroy. There's also a hardware firewall in the router
that I'm using.
Is the fact that these updates were apparrently
'invisible' significant in some way? Could this be the
result of mal ware or even hacking!? As you can see
I'm reasonably well protected! I've discovered and
deleted the odd piece of Adware or a Tracking cookie.
I even found a virus from a download onto a previous
machine but it was still in an archive without the
infected program being executed.This may all be
paranoid speculation but it does seem a little odd.
Any light would be useful! Thanks.

JHUK

> Could this be the result of mal ware or even hacking!?

Most likely related to Zone Alarm 'preventing' the system from obtaining
updates.
ALL Security update bulletins dating back to June 1, 1998 are listed
here: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx

ALL of the above updates are available from the Windows Update site.

Could you please state specifically what you used in Windows Defender to
identify which updates had not been previously installed ?
Thanks.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============



JHUK wrote:

> Hello,
> Are "windows security updates" supposed to be
> included in "windows updates"? I check and install
> updates manually and have noticed that I have had
> relatively few "windows updates" to install; around 3 or 4
> since Xmas. I subsequently installed Windows Defender,
> (and updated it). A few days later I discovered the
> "Windows Security Updates" site via an option on
> Defender's control panel. I was then surprised to
> discover that I had 66 security updates ready to
> download! some dating back to 2004! Shouldn't
> "Windows Update" have notified me of these? Are
> "Windows Security Updates" separate entities to 'normal' updates?
> I don't understand the disparity.
> I have XP Pro and am running Windows Defender, Zone
> Alarm Internet Suite, AVG AntiVirus and SpyBot Search
> and Destroy. There's also a hardware firewall in the router
> that I'm using.
> Is the fact that these updates were apparrently
> 'invisible' significant in some way? Could this be the
> result of mal ware or even hacking!? As you can see
> I'm reasonably well protected! I've discovered and
> deleted the odd piece of Adware or a Tracking cookie.
> I even found a virus from a download onto a previous
> machine but it was still in an archive without the
> infected program being executed.This may all be
> paranoid speculation but it does seem a little odd.
> Any light would be useful! Thanks.
>
> JHUK

Hi, and thanks for the response,

Ok, I didn't actually use Defender itself to identify my machine's update
status, but the procedure went pretty much like this:-

1.) Opened Defender
2.) Hit the tools tab
3.) Clicked "Windows defender website" link.
4.) Arrived at Windows Defender Home, aka

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...e/default.mspx

5.) Clicked "Latest Security Updates" tab in 'Security Updates'

Ok, as I'm using Opera I had to manually install. Now I'm uncertain of what
I *exactly* did but I found myself with the Windows updates dialogue box open
(it was 5am ..perhaps I clicked the yellow shield icon in the Sys tray at
this point..) -and a list of 66 updates to download!

Excuse the long winded answer but it was the Updates dialogue box not
Defender that gave me this amount at this point, and had never done so
before. Nothing catagorically stated that I *didn't* have any of the listed
updates, I'm presuming that this was the case by the fact that they were
presented to me..

Does this help?

Regards,

JHUK


"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

> > Could this be the result of mal ware or even hacking!?
>
> Most likely related to Zone Alarm 'preventing' the system from obtaining
> updates.
> ALL Security update bulletins dating back to June 1, 1998 are listed
> here: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx
>
> ALL of the above updates are available from the Windows Update site.
>
> Could you please state specifically what you used in Windows Defender to
> identify which updates had not been previously installed ?
> Thanks.
>
> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
> ===============
> *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ===============
>
>
>
> JHUK wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Are "windows security updates" supposed to be
> > included in "windows updates"? I check and install
> > updates manually and have noticed that I have had
> > relatively few "windows updates" to install; around 3 or 4
> > since Xmas. I subsequently installed Windows Defender,
> > (and updated it). A few days later I discovered the
> > "Windows Security Updates" site via an option on
> > Defender's control panel. I was then surprised to
> > discover that I had 66 security updates ready to
> > download! some dating back to 2004! Shouldn't
> > "Windows Update" have notified me of these? Are
> > "Windows Security Updates" separate entities to 'normal' updates?
> > I don't understand the disparity.
> > I have XP Pro and am running Windows Defender, Zone
> > Alarm Internet Suite, AVG AntiVirus and SpyBot Search
> > and Destroy. There's also a hardware firewall in the router
> > that I'm using.
> > Is the fact that these updates were apparrently
> > 'invisible' significant in some way? Could this be the
> > result of mal ware or even hacking!? As you can see
> > I'm reasonably well protected! I've discovered and
> > deleted the odd piece of Adware or a Tracking cookie.
> > I even found a virus from a download onto a previous
> > machine but it was still in an archive without the
> > infected program being executed.This may all be
> > paranoid speculation but it does seem a little odd.
> > Any light would be useful! Thanks.
> >
> > JHUK
>

Howdy,

Yup. Thanks for the detailed explanation. A possible scenario is that
you switched Opera to be detected as IE. I don't recall if Opera can run
IE's rendering engine as Firefox with/IETab installed can, but no matter
how you accessed an update site, either Window or Microsoft Update, that
often triggers the yellow AU icon in the system tray.
At least that's what I've witnessed.

Updating issues would be logged in the Event Viewer under System. The
Source would be Windows Update Agent.
Suggest you check there and the WindowsUpdate.log, located in %windir%,
to see if there are any error messages/codes. The most recent entries in
the WU.log are down towards the bottom.

There's no doubt that 'something' is preventing the system from being
notified that there are updates available.


MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============



JHUK wrote:

> Hi, and thanks for the response,
>
> Ok, I didn't actually use Defender itself to identify my machine's update
> status, but the procedure went pretty much like this:-
>
> 1.) Opened Defender
> 2.) Hit the tools tab
> 3.) Clicked "Windows defender website" link.
> 4.) Arrived at Windows Defender Home, aka
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...e/default.mspx
>
> 5.) Clicked "Latest Security Updates" tab in 'Security Updates'
>
> Ok, as I'm using Opera I had to manually install. Now I'm uncertain of what
> I *exactly* did but I found myself with the Windows updates dialogue box open
> (it was 5am ..perhaps I clicked the yellow shield icon in the Sys tray at
> this point..) -and a list of 66 updates to download!
>
> Excuse the long winded answer but it was the Updates dialogue box not
> Defender that gave me this amount at this point, and had never done so
> before. Nothing catagorically stated that I *didn't* have any of the listed
> updates, I'm presuming that this was the case by the fact that they were
> presented to me..
>
> Does this help?
>
> Regards,
>
> JHUK
>
>
> "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>>Could this be the result of mal ware or even hacking!?
>>
>>Most likely related to Zone Alarm 'preventing' the system from obtaining
>>updates.
>>ALL Security update bulletins dating back to June 1, 1998 are listed
>>here: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/current.aspx
>>
>>ALL of the above updates are available from the Windows Update site.
>>
>>Could you please state specifically what you used in Windows Defender to
>>identify which updates had not been previously installed ?
>>Thanks.
>>
>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
>>===============
>> *-343-* FDNY
>>Never Forgotten
>>===============
>>
>>
>>
>>JHUK wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>> Are "windows security updates" supposed to be
>>>included in "windows updates"? I check and install
>>>updates manually and have noticed that I have had
>>>relatively few "windows updates" to install; around 3 or 4
>>>since Xmas. I subsequently installed Windows Defender,
>>>(and updated it). A few days later I discovered the
>>>"Windows Security Updates" site via an option on
>>>Defender's control panel. I was then surprised to
>>>discover that I had 66 security updates ready to
>>>download! some dating back to 2004! Shouldn't
>>>"Windows Update" have notified me of these? Are
>>>"Windows Security Updates" separate entities to 'normal' updates?
>>> I don't understand the disparity.
>>>I have XP Pro and am running Windows Defender, Zone
>>>Alarm Internet Suite, AVG AntiVirus and SpyBot Search
>>>and Destroy. There's also a hardware firewall in the router
>>>that I'm using.
>>>Is the fact that these updates were apparrently
>>>'invisible' significant in some way? Could this be the
>>>result of mal ware or even hacking!? As you can see
>>>I'm reasonably well protected! I've discovered and
>>>deleted the odd piece of Adware or a Tracking cookie.
>>>I even found a virus from a download onto a previous
>>>machine but it was still in an archive without the
>>>infected program being executed.This may all be
>>>paranoid speculation but it does seem a little odd.
>>>Any light would be useful! Thanks.
>>>
>>>JHUK
>>

Hi again,

Excuse the delay, Hmm, I don't remember switching Opera to be detected as
IE. I don't know if that's an option to be honest. I checked the WU log and
sure enough there are various "failures" and "not alloweds" listed including
a large string of them towards the bottom. I remember clicking "allow" each
time Zone Alarm detected an update installation attempt (ok I'm not an
"allow all" kind of guy..). I presume that there's a connection.
Perhaps it is Zone Alarm? Microsoft Tech Suport highlight it (and other 3rd
party software) as an option. I've deep-scanned the machine and found
nothing that would obviously hide available updates.. Do you know of any
great system scanning tools? ZA Internet Suite set to "Deep Scan" anti
virus/spyware seems to be the best I'm aware of anyway. Well I paid for
aggressive, thorough system protection, maybe that's what I got?!
What should I looking for in the log to narrow things down? The word
"failed" is all very well but it doesn't tell me why?

Regards,

JHUK


"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Yup. Thanks for the detailed explanation. A possible scenario is that
> you switched Opera to be detected as IE. I don't recall if Opera can run
> IE's rendering engine as Firefox with/IETab installed can, but no matter
> how you accessed an update site, either Window or Microsoft Update, that
> often triggers the yellow AU icon in the system tray.
> At least that's what I've witnessed.
>
> Updating issues would be logged in the Event Viewer under System. The
> Source would be Windows Update Agent.
> Suggest you check there and the WindowsUpdate.log, located in %windir%,
> to see if there are any error messages/codes. The most recent entries in
> the WU.log are down towards the bottom.
>
> There's no doubt that 'something' is preventing the system from being
> notified that there are updates available.
>
>
> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
> ===============
> *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ===============
>
>
>
> JHUK wrote:
>
> > Hi, and thanks for the response,
> >
> > Ok, I didn't actually use Defender itself to identify my machine's update
> > status, but the procedure went pretty much like this:-
> >
> > 1.) Opened Defender
> > 2.) Hit the tools tab
> > 3.) Clicked "Windows defender website" link.
> > 4.) Arrived at Windows Defender Home, aka
>>>SNIP

In the WindowsUpdate.log there will be an error code for the
installation failures. They'll appear similar to this -

2006-12-10 13:24:28 352 2dc Misc WARNING: Send failed with hr = 80072ee7.
2006-12-10 13:24:30 352 2dc Misc WARNING: SendRequest failed with hr =
80072ee7. Proxy List used: <(null)> Bypass List used : <(null)> Auth
Schemes used : <>
2006-12-10 13:24:30 352 2dc Misc WARNING: WinHttp:
SendRequestUsingProxy failed for
<http://download.windowsupdate.com/v6/windowsupdate/redir/wuredir.cab>.
error 0x80072ee7

ZoneAlarm *is* known to cause issues such as the one the system is now
experiencing. I'm not that familiar with current editions of it.
Perhaps reading it's Help file would provide a clue as to the lack of
notification of Critical Security updates.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============



JHUK wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> Excuse the delay, Hmm, I don't remember switching Opera to be detected as
> IE. I don't know if that's an option to be honest. I checked the WU log and
> sure enough there are various "failures" and "not alloweds" listed including
> a large string of them towards the bottom. I remember clicking "allow" each
> time Zone Alarm detected an update installation attempt (ok I'm not an
> "allow all" kind of guy..). I presume that there's a connection.
> Perhaps it is Zone Alarm? Microsoft Tech Suport highlight it (and other 3rd
> party software) as an option. I've deep-scanned the machine and found
> nothing that would obviously hide available updates.. Do you know of any
> great system scanning tools? ZA Internet Suite set to "Deep Scan" anti
> virus/spyware seems to be the best I'm aware of anyway. Well I paid for
> aggressive, thorough system protection, maybe that's what I got?!
> What should I looking for in the log to narrow things down? The word
> "failed" is all very well but it doesn't tell me why?
>
> Regards,
>
> JHUK
>
>
> "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>Howdy,
>>
>>Yup. Thanks for the detailed explanation. A possible scenario is that
>>you switched Opera to be detected as IE. I don't recall if Opera can run
>>IE's rendering engine as Firefox with/IETab installed can, but no matter
>>how you accessed an update site, either Window or Microsoft Update, that
>>often triggers the yellow AU icon in the system tray.
>>At least that's what I've witnessed.
>>
>>Updating issues would be logged in the Event Viewer under System. The
>>Source would be Windows Update Agent.
>>Suggest you check there and the WindowsUpdate.log, located in %windir%,
>>to see if there are any error messages/codes. The most recent entries in
>>the WU.log are down towards the bottom.
>>
>>There's no doubt that 'something' is preventing the system from being
>>notified that there are updates available.
>>
>>
>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2007]
>>===============
>> *-343-* FDNY
>>Never Forgotten
>>===============
>>
>>
>>
>>JHUK wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi, and thanks for the response,
>>>
>>>Ok, I didn't actually use Defender itself to identify my machine's update
>>>status, but the procedure went pretty much like this:-
>>>
>>>1.) Opened Defender
>>>2.) Hit the tools tab
>>>3.) Clicked "Windows defender website" link.
>>>4.) Arrived at Windows Defender Home, aka
>>>
>>>>SNIP