UPnP and live messenger

Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and whiteboard
to work.

This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
I asked for ports, he mentioned none.

If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have UPnP
would not work with
Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some other
applications need
UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you would
have to fiddle
endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.

Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.

Your assumption only holds true if the app uses the same ports every time.

There are apps that randomly select ports to use as listening ports (and the
port range is large enough that you can't just forward all the ports). It
is these type of applications that require UPnP to open the appropriate port
on the router so that incoming requests will get to the computer in
question.

I'm not saying that whiteboarding/app sharing fall into this category (they
may or they might not, someone else can answer that with more authority),
but simply saying that everything can be done manually is not true in all
cases.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Read my blog for the latest in Media Center topics
(and other topics that interest me)
http://jtsang.blogspot.com

More information by me
http://jtsang.mvps.org
http://www.classicsunveiled.com

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx



"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
news:...
> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
> whiteboard to work.
>
> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>
> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have UPnP
> would not work with
> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some other
> applications need
> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
> would have to fiddle
> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>
> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>

Greetings,

That is correct. I gave you the ports in one of your many posts in the various newsgroups
you posted this in.

Regardless, I will explain further.

The features in question require direct connections and therefore require Messenger to know
your real IP address. How does Messenger obtain your external IP address to send to your
contact so they can connect to you? UPnP.

Without it, Messenger sends your internal IP address and therefore your contact can't connect
to you, regardless if you have the ports opened or not. Are there other ways to get an
external IP address without UPnP? Sure, but Messenger doesn't utilize them (for this
functionality anyway).

--
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - Windows Live Messenger/MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2006 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
--

"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message news:...
> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and whiteboard to work.
>
> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>
> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have UPnP would not work
> with
> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some other applications need
> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you would have to fiddle
> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>
> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>

Ok.... I had opened those 2 ports you said 1503 and 3389 AND had UPnP on AND
had installed the UPnP thing from within XP....

still no go....

I had already done what you say here before you told me..My question was
mainly if Live had changed those ports because I found that information for
MSN messenger. But its not working, thats why I posted again....

any ideas anyone?

"Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Greetings,
>
> That is correct. I gave you the ports in one of your many posts in the
> various newsgroups you posted this in.
>
> Regardless, I will explain further.
>
> The features in question require direct connections and therefore require
> Messenger to know your real IP address. How does Messenger obtain your
> external IP address to send to your contact so they can connect to you?
> UPnP.
>
> Without it, Messenger sends your internal IP address and therefore your
> contact can't connect to you, regardless if you have the ports opened or
> not. Are there other ways to get an external IP address without UPnP?
> Sure, but Messenger doesn't utilize them (for this functionality anyway).
>
> --
> Jonathan Kay
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Live Messenger/MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
> Associate Expert
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2006 Jonathan Kay.
> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
> --
>
> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
>> whiteboard to work.
>>
>> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
>> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>>
>> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have UPnP
>> would not work with
>> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some other
>> applications need
>> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
>> would have to fiddle
>> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>>
>> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>>
>
>

i know this... but it is irrelivent to messenger....

UPnP is a good thing.. I hope it would work even better!


"Jason Tsang" <jason-> wrote in message
news:...
> Your assumption only holds true if the app uses the same ports every time.
>
> There are apps that randomly select ports to use as listening ports (and
> the port range is large enough that you can't just forward all the ports).
> It is these type of applications that require UPnP to open the appropriate
> port on the router so that incoming requests will get to the computer in
> question.
>
> I'm not saying that whiteboarding/app sharing fall into this category
> (they may or they might not, someone else can answer that with more
> authority), but simply saying that everything can be done manually is not
> true in all cases.
>
> --
> Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
>
> Read my blog for the latest in Media Center topics
> (and other topics that interest me)
> http://jtsang.blogspot.com
>
> More information by me
> http://jtsang.mvps.org
> http://www.classicsunveiled.com
>
> Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
>
>
>
> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
>> whiteboard to work.
>>
>> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
>> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>>
>> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have UPnP
>> would not work with
>> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some other
>> applications need
>> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
>> would have to fiddle
>> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>>
>> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>>
>
>
>

If you are using UPnP, you should not be manually opening the ports
yourself. Windows Live Messenger will open them with UPnP.

--
Gary Tsang
http://www.gtsang.com

Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Shell/User
http://www.microsoft.com/mvp



"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
news:...
> Ok.... I had opened those 2 ports you said 1503 and 3389 AND had UPnP on
> AND
> had installed the UPnP thing from within XP....
>
> still no go....
>
> I had already done what you say here before you told me..My question was
> mainly if Live had changed those ports because I found that information
> for MSN messenger. But its not working, thats why I posted again....
>
> any ideas anyone?
>
> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> That is correct. I gave you the ports in one of your many posts in the
>> various newsgroups you posted this in.
>>
>> Regardless, I will explain further.
>>
>> The features in question require direct connections and therefore require
>> Messenger to know your real IP address. How does Messenger obtain your
>> external IP address to send to your contact so they can connect to you?
>> UPnP.
>>
>> Without it, Messenger sends your internal IP address and therefore your
>> contact can't connect to you, regardless if you have the ports opened or
>> not. Are there other ways to get an external IP address without UPnP?
>> Sure, but Messenger doesn't utilize them (for this functionality anyway).
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Kay
>> Microsoft MVP - Windows Live Messenger/MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
>> Associate Expert
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2006 Jonathan Kay.
>> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>> --
>>
>> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
>>> whiteboard to work.
>>>
>>> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
>>> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>>>
>>> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have
>>> UPnP would not work with
>>> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some
>>> other applications need
>>> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
>>> would have to fiddle
>>> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>>>
>>> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

thank you, I have tried both methods... but can you explain why I should not
be manually opening ports with UPnP? UPnP would just try to open the same
ports that are already open, so whats the problem with that?

thanks


"Gary Tsang" <> wrote in message
news:...
> If you are using UPnP, you should not be manually opening the ports
> yourself. Windows Live Messenger will open them with UPnP.
>
> --
> Gary Tsang
> http://www.gtsang.com
>
> Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Shell/User
> http://www.microsoft.com/mvp
>
>
>
> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Ok.... I had opened those 2 ports you said 1503 and 3389 AND had UPnP on
>> AND
>> had installed the UPnP thing from within XP....
>>
>> still no go....
>>
>> I had already done what you say here before you told me..My question was
>> mainly if Live had changed those ports because I found that information
>> for MSN messenger. But its not working, thats why I posted again....
>>
>> any ideas anyone?
>>
>> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> That is correct. I gave you the ports in one of your many posts in the
>>> various newsgroups you posted this in.
>>>
>>> Regardless, I will explain further.
>>>
>>> The features in question require direct connections and therefore
>>> require Messenger to know your real IP address. How does Messenger
>>> obtain your external IP address to send to your contact so they can
>>> connect to you? UPnP.
>>>
>>> Without it, Messenger sends your internal IP address and therefore your
>>> contact can't connect to you, regardless if you have the ports opened or
>>> not. Are there other ways to get an external IP address without UPnP?
>>> Sure, but Messenger doesn't utilize them (for this functionality
>>> anyway).
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Kay
>>> Microsoft MVP - Windows Live Messenger/MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
>>> Associate Expert
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
>>> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
>>> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2006 Jonathan Kay.
>>> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
>>> --
>>>
>>> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
>>>> whiteboard to work.
>>>>
>>>> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
>>>> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
>>>>
>>>> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have
>>>> UPnP would not work with
>>>> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some
>>>> other applications need
>>>> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
>>>> would have to fiddle
>>>> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
>>>>
>>>> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

You need to make sure you have the following item allowed in the Windows
Firewall exception list:

- RTC App Sharing

Also, make sure your buddy has UPnP enabled on their end too.

"John Jay Smith" wrote:

> thank you, I have tried both methods... but can you explain why I should not
> be manually opening ports with UPnP? UPnP would just try to open the same
> ports that are already open, so whats the problem with that?
>
> thanks
>
>
> "Gary Tsang" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > If you are using UPnP, you should not be manually opening the ports
> > yourself. Windows Live Messenger will open them with UPnP.
> >
> > --
> > Gary Tsang
> > http://www.gtsang.com
> >
> > Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Shell/User
> > http://www.microsoft.com/mvp
> >
> >
> >
> > "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
> > news:...
> >> Ok.... I had opened those 2 ports you said 1503 and 3389 AND had UPnP on
> >> AND
> >> had installed the UPnP thing from within XP....
> >>
> >> still no go....
> >>
> >> I had already done what you say here before you told me..My question was
> >> mainly if Live had changed those ports because I found that information
> >> for MSN messenger. But its not working, thats why I posted again....
> >>
> >> any ideas anyone?
> >>
> >> "Jonathan Kay [MVP]" <> wrote in message
> >> news:...
> >>> Greetings,
> >>>
> >>> That is correct. I gave you the ports in one of your many posts in the
> >>> various newsgroups you posted this in.
> >>>
> >>> Regardless, I will explain further.
> >>>
> >>> The features in question require direct connections and therefore
> >>> require Messenger to know your real IP address. How does Messenger
> >>> obtain your external IP address to send to your contact so they can
> >>> connect to you? UPnP.
> >>>
> >>> Without it, Messenger sends your internal IP address and therefore your
> >>> contact can't connect to you, regardless if you have the ports opened or
> >>> not. Are there other ways to get an external IP address without UPnP?
> >>> Sure, but Messenger doesn't utilize them (for this functionality
> >>> anyway).
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jonathan Kay
> >>> Microsoft MVP - Windows Live Messenger/MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
> >>> Associate Expert
> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
> >>> Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
> >>> All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2006 Jonathan Kay.
> >>> You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message
> >>> news:...
> >>>> Jonathan here said that you had to have UPnP for app sharing and
> >>>> whiteboard to work.
> >>>>
> >>>> This answer does not satisfy me. What UPNP can do YOU can do manualy.
> >>>> I asked for ports, he mentioned none.
> >>>>
> >>>> If this was true people with older types of routers that do not have
> >>>> UPnP would not work with
> >>>> Live etc...(I am talking about app sharing not messaging) also some
> >>>> other applications need
> >>>> UPnP off and ports forward manually. What this would mean is that you
> >>>> would have to fiddle
> >>>> endlessly with settings turning on and off UPnP in the router.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please I need a better answer.. that makes sense.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>